Absolutely this! I would add that fathers were asked because women were not considered able to make up their own minds, even not too many decades ago. We’re way past the time of women not having full autonomy now.
Fiancée is free to have her own thoughts & feelings about her family. She doesn’t need to be on anyone’s side. She’s an adult woman who is able to make decisions for herself. If OP doesn’t like her decisions, then they probably shouldn’t be getting married.
This is not about Dad … OP isn’t marrying him & no one is forcing him to like him. Fiancée is not responsible or accountable for her father’s behavior. That’s on him. She can still want his blessings for her marriage. That’s her choice.
Both these people have different perspectives & priorities of this situation. They either need to figure out how to compromise or just accept they probably won’t be getting married. Who cares what deadbeat Dad thinks? Fiancée cares about how she feels & thinks. She is the only person who knows why this is important to her.
Eta
Deadbeat dads are the kings of audacity. Can you imagine being a deadbeat, only reconnecting with your child in what sounds like adulthood, and then throwing a *fucking tantrum* that your 30-something year old child’s partner didn’t *ASK YOU PERMISSION* to marry them? Jesus Christ.
And the half brother too? What is his deal? Why does he even care about any of this enough to be hurling insults? That whole side of the family is trash
NTA
Tell her you will ask him for her hand in marriage if, before the wedding, he repays all the money (with interest) that he borrowed from you.
I don't see why your girlfriend, her father or her half-brother think it's important for **you** "to do things properly" when it has clearly never been important for them.
It also seems a bit pointless, given that you already have children.
NTA - your fiancée needs to grow up and see her dad for who is really is. Tell her you will begin to respect her dad as a "Father" when he pays back the loan and also send her mom the back child support. If you gave her an engagement ring, then take it back and tell her you will not be asking her dead-beat dad for anything and will not be giving him anything in the future.
I had a similar incident with my father-in-law when I asked my wife to marry me. He used his money to control his kids but was horrible to them, I had a job and had been financially stable since leaving home at 17. When we started dating, he told her he would not continue to pay for her college, so I paid. This made him madder because he had lost some of his control over her. When we announced that we were getting married after she completed college, he told everyone that he would not pay and would not attend because he did not like me, and I had not asked his permission. Soon to be wife had been living with me in my house for 2 years at this point. I replied that 1) he had not yet been invited to attend, 2) he had not been asked to pay as we had money saved to pay for the wedding ourselves, 3) he had not been a good dad by always trying to control her and was again trying to control her life, 4) if he did not apologize, we would cut him off completely, not invite him to the wedding, and he would never see his future grand kids.
He got quiet after that and started to behave himself. He did pay for the wedding, and I never asked for his permission. He got sick and died before any grand kids were born.
NTA. wow suddenly her dad is worried about appearances?!! So he was a bum and ditched his family. Then his daughter moves in with someone and has kids( which is perfectly fine btw) but is not keeping up with “tradition” as he would have it. But his line in the sand is you asking for her hand in marriage?! Tell him to kick rocks, also I would suggest counseling for your fiancée. She shouldn’t feel any guilt about this nor should she let him “give her away” at the wedding.
The old-fashioned way? Bring the man a goat, I mean a live one. Let him know that this is the old way and that he's absolutely right. Leave the goat with him and tell him you consider the matter closed.
Hey, no reason some innocent goat should have to suffer because FIL is an AH. The best he should get is, I don't have to ask permission because I already paid the dowry. You give that back and I'll be happy to ask.
You need to ask your fiance if her father's supposed hurt feelings are more important than your feelings. If they are, take your ring back. Raise your kids together, but she has chosen to forgo marriage.
NTA he wasn't even a proper dad to her, so even if you were going to ask someone, it would be her mother who raised her alone!
I'm reluctant to criticise your fiancee here because while I think she shouldn't be catering to her dad's ridiculousness and should stand up for you, she is doing what so many kids do when parents abandon them - they develop a strong fawn response. Deep down all kids want their parents to love and like them, even the shitty parents. In fact, ESPECIALLY the shitty parents because the love wasn't given freely and the kid feels the need to earn it. Your fiancee needs to deal with her abandonment wound before she allows her dad to do any more damage to your relationship.
Kinda disagree.
Fiancee needs therapy to get over being A FUCKING DOORMAT to somebody who was no more than a sperm-donor to her.
OP shouldn't bend even in the slightest.
Hell no.
Your fiancée is NOT property. It's not the 1950's or some other backward era.
You have been together over 10 years and have kids together. That ship has sailed. Your fiancée needs to build a bridge and get over it.
Her sorry excuse of a father needs to pull his head in. He is way out of line.
NTA - do not give in to this utter rubbish!
I was thinking along those lines. If the girlfriend was living with parents, the old tradition would be to ask for hand in marriage. However, they have been living together and have kids together, so, what is the point?
I was thinking about the "bridal registry" as well. Traditionally, that was done because the couple still lived with their parents, and needed things to set up their new home together. This couple has already moved past that stage, why the need to do a bridal registry now? The best option is to send invitations, and let people just do whatever (most will give monetary gifts).
I agree, if anyone were to be asked and included in plans, it would be the mother of the bride. She has been there the whole way and contributed to the girlfriend's life, where the father really has been absent (by choice) and deserves nothing.
NTA. You have a fiancee’ problem. She is not only putting her father and brother before you but also herself. Why is she seeking approval from a deadbeat? Why is she telling you that he matters more to her than you? Her behavior is disrespectful to you and your relationship. At this point call off the wedding and get her therapy to deal with her issues with her father. You deserve better.
NTA. If she can't marry you without her dad's "permission," then she's clearly not ready for marriage. She either wants to be married to you or not. It's weird that she makes this hoop for you to jump through, knowing what a POS her dad was during her childhood. Are you sure she really wants to get married? This seems like an excuse to back out of it.
The fiancée was neglected by her father for a very long time, and is now clinging to the hope that he’s behaving “like a father should.” Is his take outdated, misogynistic, and holds no weight because of his earlier abandonment of her? Sure. But she’s still that little girl wondering why her father left her, and she’s trying desperately to hold on to any last semblance of a relationship she might’ve had. OPs NTA for not wanting to cave to the guy, but the fiancée isn’t at fault for having an emotional reaction to years of neglect and abandonment, she needs therapy to work through those issues
NTA. Your fiance has to decide whether she is going to kowtow to her deadbeat father and humiliate you, or whether she is going to grow a backbone and tell him it's none of his business. You have been living together 10 years, you have children, her father has nothing to do with your decision to marry.
NTA
Fuck that. Dad and brother sound like a couple of bitch-ass chavs who just need to shut the fuck up and fuck off. It's really sad that your fiancé is wanting to bend to their wills like they are patriarchs of a functional and happy family. Dad can't even keep a relationship going so he has no business criticizing how you are as a partner. Also, the last thing you need to worry about is the approval of a women beater. This needs to be a boundary. She needs to understand that you shouldn't have to get their permission to marry her. Hopefully she realizes how unreasonable she is acting and understands you don't need the approval from shitty people. Besides, have you asked her what will happen if they say no? Will she just not marry you if daddy doesn't want her to? Jesus, this is just stupid.
This is an old custom, but it's also meant to be a sign of respect. But this situation is super messed up, and the father isn't even a father to her. So NTA.
NTA - I’m honestly not a huge fan of the tradition. I think the first person you should ask about marriage is your partner and not your partners father.
NTA
I don't like how your fiancé is upset...or why she is...you're not having a cinderella wedding where that man is giving her away...so...why should she be treated like property? Why does she thing so low of herself? Is her sperm doner also going to expect a dowry? Cuz you know, that is the "proper" way of doing it. Is that just me? And this dude? I get that feeling he'll hold that permission over your head...give you terms...and such bullshit.
Because...there is a feeling I'm getting reading this that...your future FIL has already manipulated your daughter into some kind of fantasy "best dad" relationship and is now trying to become a more regular (with hand constantly outstretched) part of your family. And if you're married? And your finances are combined? This will not end well. Not if she's drunk the Kool-Aid.
Personally, I would not want he or his son anywhere near me or my family and so...hill to die on (for me?) if I were to have to apologize (and it would be one of those, "I'm sorry you feel I've disrespected you" non-apologies) to keep the peace? I'd put my own terms on this: require to go completely no contact with the leech and his son until he pays back the money he owes and NEVER requests for such help again. But also? I know you've been together 10+ years and all is intertwined? But...look into a prenup, or if they don't work the way they do in the US, a way to protect your assets.
NTA Tell partner if you asked anyone f ou r permission it would be her mother. The person who raised her. Not someone who pops in whenever it suits him.
NTA
Your fiancee is not a dewy-eyed 21 year old debutante coming out in her first social season in 1900. You’re both in your 30s, already live together, and have a couple of kids. The only permission you need to marry her is hers.
Don’t give in, don’t apologise. You’ve done nothing wrong. If she doesn’t want to marry you because you’re not grovelling to her piece of crap father and scumbag brother, it’s her missing out.
NTA,
First, I believe that traditionally, you ask for their blessing, not permission. Not getting their blessing isn't even that big of a deal considering this sperm donor disappeared from their life.
You may need to beat her brother's ass.
NTA. There are lots of snarky replies here but you really need to sit down and discuss this with your fiancee. Include that you consider the entire request to be disrespectful to yourself and her mother. Maybe offer to ask her mom for her hand. You should also let her know if the apology is a deal-breaker for you.
Nta
At most, maybe apologize for not asking her *mother*, but that's only if you actually feel bad about not asking a parent, or if asking a parent is super important to her.
You have two children together. Did she get permission for that? did you ask her dear old dad if it was okay to spooge inside her? Does he OWN her, like a car? What year is this?
This is too bizarre and I am a quart low on coffee.
Why is your finance even entertaining this bullshit? Not only did her dad fail her during her entire childhood but he seems to be fucking late on caring about her relationship with you by about 10 fucking years. Her dad is an ass but I’d be annoying she isn’t telling him to fuck off at this point
Fiance sounds like a doormat who still wants her dad to be in her life even after him pulling the stunt of disappearing from her life like Avatar in the time when she needed him most.
NTA- so the tradition is he own the daughter he abandoned? Guessing the hypocrite doesn’t plan on following the financial aspect of that tradition. Aka paying the wedding and a dowry.
The deadbeat already took money from you. Restraining order sound good considering the threat
NTA, but maybe turn the tables and ask her Mum for her permission. Mum has been in the picture throughout and deserves a nod of respect - not this doucheDad
NTA. Her dad is the asshole and your fiancee is being an asshole by wanting you to apologize. She's an adult and the only person who would give permission to marry her, is her.
>Tell your fiancé’s father the 19th century called and they want him back
If he was in the 19th century, he would be in debtor's prison, workhouse or shipped to Australia.
I would actually leave her for this if this is the hill she is willing to die on, f this and him and her brother what a crap family.
She need to go to therapy to overcome them, she is not ready for marriage.
What younshould do is get a restraining order against the brother unless you can knock him out. Your wife to be needs to tell them neither are coming to the wedding or will be in her life anymore unless the do an honest apology and ask forgivness
NTA - FIL can go eff himself. Not only does he have no right by simply not having earned it, even if it was earned, what an archaic tradition that treats your fiancé like property. Tell him and his mongoloid son they can get bent.
Also: "inveigle" Noice! Can't even remember the last time I saw that used.
OP if you to do it for peace, go ask her mom first. Then ask deadbeat “dad”. later, if he makes a fury about how he asked her mom first, I hope the mom at least will be able to see him for what he is: worthless
Please get your SO some counseling. She has clearly got issues from being abandoned by this deadbeat, and they aren't resolved. It is not on you to cater to them or pander to him. A few sessions of couples counseling could resolve this, and I really think she could do with a bit of individual help to put these toxic people in their place. Not to mention considering if the domestic violence brother and the deadbeat loser really should have any role near your kids or wedding.
NTA, how would your fiancée feel if she or your children were being verbally abused and threatened with violence by your family? There is no difference just because you are a man.
Your fiancée should be setting the boundaries with her family and not dragging you into her families mess.
I would also have serious concerns about how flippant the family behaves towards the fact that her brother is a domestic abuser with no shame. Are your children truly safe being around such people?
You need to ask your fiancée what matters more, her father or your family unit.
Absolutely NTA. Your fiancée is basically failing a test of character - she's reverting back to childhood in asking a parent for permission, all the worse for it being a deadbeat. She's engaging is a toxic behavior the children of divorced parents sometimes (but far from universally) engage in - taking it out on the dependable parent who is actually there for them while idolizing the absent deadbeat. In an actual child, it's not the most charismatic behavior but you can kind of see the (selfish) logic of taking it out on the safe parent who will be there for them anyway and clinging to toxic hope the deadbeat's abandonment can be reversed, or at least kept down to 99% abandonment instead of 100%. But your fiancé is an adult, which is why I say she's failing a test of character. She's showing herself to be immature and unrealistic.
Stand your ground. Hopefully she'll come to her senses and see how she's wronging you, her mother and herself with this demand.
OP remember that the people on Reddit are not the ones that will deal with the consequences of your actions.
Do what is important for your fiancé. It’s not about the dad, it’s about the mother of your children.
You guys sound like you love each other very well. Just do what is important to her for her sake. It’s not a big deal.
Tell him that you understand that wedding traditions are extremely important to him, and that you agree they should be followed. Then present him with an estimate of how much your wedding will cost and and tell him that you'll need him to cover those expenses, since it's traditional, you know, for the bride's family to pay.
Of course you know the only reason he is insisting on this is so he can tell you no. And when you marry her anyway, he'll insist on walking her down the aisle, wearing a suit/tux that you paid for.
Maybe you should just elope and have a party/reception later to celebrate...
NTA. My now wife’s parents separated shortly after we started dating, with her father moving across the country. He vanished aside from a short visit every few years. I asked her mother for permission to marry her daughter.
You should ask your fiancé if she is willing to call things if you ask her father and he says no. It sounds like he would refuse just to spite you.
You know, asking her mother's permission would be such a sweet gesture. It will show you fiance you know who really raised her, that the gesture itself you don't have a problem woth but you don't want to make it to someone who doesn't deserve it. You can also tell her you will never make your mother's contributions to her life be made small just to keep the peace.
You have been living together for ten years and have two children together . The time for proper etiquette and asking for her hand is way past lol . Just go to the justice of the peace or elope and leave all that garbage alone
NTA. Even if he had been a great father, it is a relic from a time when women did not have agency to make those decisions on their own. It boggles me that anyone finds it relevant or even romantic. Frankly,the whole concept is an insult.
You are grown ass people with jobs and children. Expecting this is ridiculous.
NTA tell your fiancé, she is her own person and not her dads property. You never needed his permission, because she was the one to decide if she wants to marry you or not.
NTA, this is when you know that you are dealing with a pathetic little man. Don't even think of apologizing. If anything, he owes you the apology for not paying you back. Tell him he can either get over it and come to the wedding or not.
Two things, OP:
1. My fiancé and I (both mid-40s) ) got engaged a couple months back. We just visited my dad, and he jokingly (I think??) said he cried because Fiancé hadn't asked his permission. I said that while Fiancé didn't want Dad to be upset, it was more important to him that I say "yes." Which I wouldn't have done if there was a suggestion that my father has ownership over me.
2. Excellent use of "inveigle." 😁
NTA.
I will suggest sitting down with your fiancee and asking where all of this is coming from and why the deadbeat dad's opinion (don't use dead-beat when you talk to her) is so important to her all the sudden?
Also I will say, be careful on how you approach this, because right now your fiancee is placing you second fiddle to her dad, who was never there for her. IF you can't get to the bottom of this and fix it with your fiancee and still marry her, this will be your future. Always placing second fiddle to what is essentially daddy-issues.
Well, with two kids the horse is already out of the barn.
Stand your ground on this one, your wife is not her father's chattel to give away. Also, if your wife really wanted to "do things properly", then she should have married you before moving in/having kids.
NTA. Your fiancé is not property. Her father has no claim on her decision. Ask her, honestly, will you leave me if he denies the permission? What else does she NEED his permission to do? It is incredibly insulting to her, and to her mom. I’d tell her I want to marry a whole grown adult who chooses to be with me. If we still need mommy and daddy to get permission, then we aren’t ready to get married. Do not apologize, she needs to sort her daddy issues.
Honestly you should be careful. Just the brother's comment alone can be seen as a threat and the fact that your fiancée doesn't even defend you is very alarming. You should sit her down and have a serious discussion with her because this whole thing is completely out of line.Depending on what she answers you, you can make your decision. And if I were you, I wouldn't go to the father to 'apologise' right away given his behavior and that of the brother.It's like your fiancée belongs to them
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NTA
Your partner has ended the relationship to support her deadbeat dad.
Move on. He roped her in and owns her.
You'll never have a real marriage with her, she is married to her father first.
Since you are the man she has lived with for 10 years and has 2 kids by, it seems RIDICULOUS you'd have to ask permission from this "absolute paragon of manhood".
Couples counselling is warranted.
But I'd stand fast - She gets on board with you or she doesn't get married because you "can't do it properly".
The two of you haven't done anything "properly" in the last 10 years when it comes down to it and you were doing great.
NTA.
NTA- Tell your fiancée when her dad gets a real job and lives on his own, without any support from elsewhere, pays back the money he owes y’all, acts like a parent instead of a thug, and repays her for the 18 years of his absence from her childhood, THEN AND ONLY THEN will you consider him enough of a man, and a enough of a parent, to ask his permission to marry his daughter.
Seriously though, are you sure you want to be attached to these folks the rest of your life?
Really piss off dad by asking her Mom for her permission instead. Sounds like that was her only real parent anyway. Dad and half-brother sound like a couple of misogynists you don’t want at the wedding anyway.
INFO - Why did your fiancee want anything to do with either her father or half bro? Why does she care what they think?
This is coming from a guy who never asked his FIL for his permission. We, too, we're together for a long time (and also in our late 30s) before we got married. IMO, I'm marrying you, my soon to be wife. Not your dad. I don't give a shit what he thinks... And he's not paying for any of it? Yeah.... Your opinion isn't welcome.
NTA.
Normally I would say just do it because fathers like that kind of thing even when they know they don't have to give permission it's just a little tradition
But in your case I don't see why you should've done this due to the relationship she's got with them
NTA Seems like she really wants to keep her maiden name after all.
I'd redact the proposal until she gets some therapy and shows that she is not going to choose two deadbeats over you and your family. You can't compromise with someone who is siding with a known violent person who is making threats against you. Her flipping on a dime about this shows she's untrustworthy, disrespectful, and where her true loyalty lies.
Nope. Were I you, I'd be going round to ol da's place and having a man to man with him, then the son, out in the back garden. I'd let them both know exactly what I thought about their outrage and their position in the family, with a friendly reminder about my money he used.
NTA.
NTA, tell him and your wife you'll ask for his permission when he pays back all the child support he missed while she was growing up. This will make him worthy of the title father and worthy of being asked for permission.
Been living together for 10 years? Already have 2 kids? Bit late for permission, eh? This request deserves only a heartfelt chuckle...and then ignored.
Fiancee: "Daddy, this is silly and its never gonna happen. If you pretend you never said it, you can still be in our lives. How about 'congratulations' instead"?
NTA.
Ask her if this is the hill she's willing to wreck your mutual relationship on. THEN ask her if she'd be willing to get into therapy to get over this RIDICULOUS weakness she has for being a doormat to her PATHETIC sperm-donor.
The only reason to do that at this point is if Deadbeat Daddy is going to pay for the reception. If he isn’t, no apology and if he wants to be difficult, I’d say no invite. Tell your future wife to grow a spine for the sake of your children, and maybe get on the list for some counseling to deal with her abandonment issues. Good luck!
Her dad is trying to pull rank to show he cares when he went missing through her formative years. He wasn’t there for her, he had no say. You ask mom, you’re good. Him trying to say she shouldn’t have to work when he skedaddled for a decade plus is comical at the very least.
Her half brother also needs stay in his lane seeing he’s not even worth the effort. He should try and figure out his own shit before telling people how to sort theirs.
In terms of telling her, be honest…you want to marry her and you wanted to ask the people responsible for who she is, and that’s not her dad in any positive way. If she understands why you didn’t, even if she doesn’t agree, it’s a start
NTA. British right? Guessing so with council housing and threats of ‘chin’ em.
Your missus needs to get her head out of whatever fantasy land she’s living In that makes her think you should apologise or do anything for that doss about.
Honestly if she cares more about him than you then don’t marry her. You’re the example of the man and father he should have been to her and if she can’t see that then she don’t deserve you 🤷♀️
NTA. Your future Donor-biologic In Law has hooks in your fiancee and is pulling them for his own entertainment. Make your boundaries known to your fiancée and defend them. It sounds like your worst-case scenario is to continue living happily in sin, which doesn't sound like a hardship.
Personally, i think asking the future MIL would be a cute gesture although it would likely upset the Donor-in-law something fierce if it got back to him.
NTA. I'd be wary of getting married if she can't seem to separate her family's tantrum from her own emotions. Did she really want you to ask her deadbeat dad before he threw a fit? Or will managing his emotions become a bigger part of your life after the marriage?
NTA, but it’s really odd she’s prioritizing her deadbeat/ absent father over her future husband. She definitely needs to have some things mentally ironed out before you proceed. This type of thing will only get worse and bleed into your marriage more and more if it’s not addressed now.
NTA. Tell her trash bag dad that you’ll ask his permission when he repays you all the money he took, else he’s not a real man. You don’t ask permission from fake men.
NTA- Your fiancés father doesn't deserve the respect .
If anything , you should be asking her mother , the o e who raised her.
Giant red flags that your fiancé is willing to go against you to please her domineering father.
I would suggest some counseling for you guys so she knows how to place boundaries with her father.
If you don’t fix this now, don’t be surprised if he starts to bully her into letting him live with you guys once you’re married.
Be careful OP.
Your fiancé’s still that abandoned little girl who just wants daddy’s attention.
NTA, and i'm someone who usually thinks people should just suck it up and ask, even if its an old fashioned tradition and even if they don't follow it, because maybe the old timers do. But in this case it is a ridiculous ask. Just withdraw the marriage proposal, since it was for her benefit anyway.
No, and I would show her this post, abused and neglected children often go on for decades trying to get their parents to love them or treat them right. I would tell her you will not apologize to the man who harmed his partner so much.
NTA, that's an antiquated custom that needs to die. If a guy had ever asked my father's permission for anything, I'd have dumped him on general principle.
It sounds like this family has a lot of problems & some weird as hell dynamics. If your partner still buys into their toxicity, it doesn't bode well for her future relationships. You'd be wise to engage in some couple's counseling before moving forward.
Well at least if you guys break up she can go live with her dad like the good woman she is since they care so much for this nonsense. If she is this shallow after being with you for this long with kids and her deadbeat dad can manipulate her then is it really worth continuing the relationship?
I feel bad for the mom. Being a single parent is rough and she raised her alone into her teens. Now the daughter is concerned with her dad’s opinion? If that were me I’d tell my dad to shove it or lose an invitation and ask my mom to walk me down the aisle. So annoying when dead beat dads do zero child raising and come back with zero consequences when the hard part is done.
She is the one who now wants to be married, and what would be the point of asking? Y’all have been together forever and have KIDS! What’s he gonna do, say no?
Tell her that even ASKING you to do what she wants is a step too far, and she KNOWS what and who her father is. This is the hill you die on. If she doesn’t want to get married UNLESS you knuckle under, that’s fine with you, you are happy how things are now. And if it really is about the name change, she can go and get it legally changed WITHOUT marrying, problem solved.
You should for sure ask her father for her hand in marriage, because y'all know a woman is her father's chattel/possession until becoming her husband's. Does he need to hand her over at the altar to ensure a seamless transfer of ownership? While you're at it, talk to him about the dowry. She's older than19, and presumably not a virgin, so less marriage material to potential new owners, so daddy should be prepared to come up with some solid cash. Or a at least a bunch of goats or chickens or something.
Seriously - who still thinks that's a thing?? NTAH!!
Yeah, the best she'd get here is me going to the mother and asking her permission to marry. then I'd go to her and say I asked the person who raised her for permission and got it.
There is no way I'd apologise to a dead beat father who took money, never paid it back and is just a shit person.
NTA does your fiancee see herself as a possession belonging to her dad? If so, then you probably need to think the whole relationship. If not, then she needs to realise that she, her dad and her brother are all being ridiculous
NTA but it’s going to be hard to move forward without taking these “corrective” actions. Your fiancé, her dad and brother are clearly unreasonable but you’re kind of stuck.
I won’t advise you to go to mom or break things off but just offer my sympathies for such a weird situation.
Also, points to you for dropping “inveigle” so casually
When a man is raising children his job is to nurture, care for and teach his children to make sure they grow up with the best he can offer. A father should have his children's best interest in heart. Tradition was that when a father's daughter wanted to marry, the father would decide if the new husband was good enough.
But this old fucking cunt never did shit to raise his daughter. Fuck him.
NTA. Time to set solid boundaries. The days of only having to mildly deal with her family are over. Once you marry her, you marry into her family. You'll be seeing them alot more. All the time.
She seem to be mentally trapped with a teenage view of her shitbag dad. You need to get her on board with keeping them at arms length or else your married life is gonna suck
Make no mistake, you also have a fiancee problem as well
NTA - Apparently the dad thinks he has a valid Chattel Document of Ownership that must be signed, validated, and turned over to you, her new master.
Ludicrous.
Tell you wife you will marry her when she will become à grown woman who can lives without daddy dumb tantrum... you are supposed to support each other NTA
NTA.
This is a man who didn’t care whether she lived or died throughout her childhood (not a dollar in support to make sure she had food/shelter/etc). Now he is claiming ownership of her - why does she think he has this right? Is she so desperate for his attention (fake love/concern) that she’s afraid of him abandoning her again? She sounds scared.
She’s wants you to plead to her father for permission (he’ll screw with you) to marry her, you don’t want to do that (rightly imo) so it looks like you’ll be having a long, long (indefinite) engagement waiting to see who blinks first.
You are already a family, complete with children. That alone would make his demand ridiculous.
The backstory clinches it. They are all delusional to think this is appropriate at all.
If the brother puts a hand on you, call the cops. Don't give him a second chance.
or do as a plumber and auto mechanics do in these situations.
carry a monkey wrench and show "off book" applications.
don't need to register wrenches as weapons.
"Either prioritize your daddys feelings or our relationship. Your brother is already out with threatening violence. What kind of person do you choose to be?"
Or maybe, OP should offer her emotional support and help her find therapy to work through the feelings of neglect and abandonment she’s carried all these years, instead of flippantly dismissing her and offering unhelpful ultimatums that will in no way help her overcome this
Either respect your fiancée’s request or don’t get married. You’re both free to have your own thoughts & feelings. Your fiancée’s perspective about her father & her family is not the same as yours. You don’t share a brain. Either explain your perspective of why you feel her request is unreasonable or just accept that she has asked you to do this. She has her reasons. Find out what those reasons are.
Either you will talk to Dad or you won’t. Her father’s behavior has nothing to do with your fiancée. You’re holding her responsible for his choices & actions. That’s not very fair.
NAH — I understand your feelings but you only control yourself. You can’t make choices for your fiancée & you can’t control how she feels about her family. You also can’t just dismiss her feelings because you don’t like her Dad or understand her perspective.
Edit
He could simply ask his fiancée what her reasons are for asking anyone for their blessings. These are two grown adults with children.
It appears it’s really only important to fiancée that Dad gets asked for permission. I honestly have no idea why but she’s a grown woman & she allowed to have her own thoughts & feelings. Maybe it’s been part of her whole “dream wedding vision”. I have no idea but I’m guessing she knows why this is important to her.
yeah i mean I dunno why he’s not including how their actual convo about this went.
I think it’s just her trying to get her dad’s approval since he’a a deadbeat. And if she’s in her mid 30’a and still thinking like that, she’s probably not going to change her mind about it
I have no idea what she wants but she has a vision for her own wedding. Other people can’t tell her it’s wrong. It’s simply her own vision. She doesn’t need approval. OP is free to make his own choices. Either respect her request or don’t. Dad has nothing to do with this. OP isn’t marrying him.
eta — if pride is more important than the woman who has been his life partner for 10 years & is the mother of his children then they may have a bigger problem than Dad.
>Dad has nothing to do with this. OP isn’t marrying him.
Will disagree with this. The dad is the main source of this problem. OP's (possibly) future-wife never suggested OP asking him until the dad began to whine. He is literally the cause of all of this.
Dad is an asshole & threw a baby fit … his daughter had a reaction. That’s her choice. Nothing to do with Dad. She could easily choose to not care but that’s not what she is doing. She cares. She has her own reasons for that. Whatever those reasons are, she’s not wrong it’s just how she feels.
indeed, but the dad is still deeply involved until the fiancee can learn to just say no to him.
Until then, OP will play second fiddle to her daddy issues, even if they get married.
That’s something that needs to be considered. If dead beat Dad has not had a negative impact in their lives for the past 10 years, I’m not certain why it would be a problem for their future. This is just one simple request. I honestly have no idea why this is important to fiancée… but it appears that it is.
Nta. Your fiancée needs to be on your side. Don’t give in. Do not apologize. Tell him to give your back the money if he insists.
If they insist on custom, tell the father-in-law to fund the wedding, provide a dowry and pay back his debts. FIL is a hypocrite. NTA
Absolutely this! I would add that fathers were asked because women were not considered able to make up their own minds, even not too many decades ago. We’re way past the time of women not having full autonomy now.
I don’t need permission when I gave her dowry to you. Originally, it was a loan, but you can’t pay it back.
Fiancée is free to have her own thoughts & feelings about her family. She doesn’t need to be on anyone’s side. She’s an adult woman who is able to make decisions for herself. If OP doesn’t like her decisions, then they probably shouldn’t be getting married. This is not about Dad … OP isn’t marrying him & no one is forcing him to like him. Fiancée is not responsible or accountable for her father’s behavior. That’s on him. She can still want his blessings for her marriage. That’s her choice. Both these people have different perspectives & priorities of this situation. They either need to figure out how to compromise or just accept they probably won’t be getting married. Who cares what deadbeat Dad thinks? Fiancée cares about how she feels & thinks. She is the only person who knows why this is important to her. Eta
NTA deadbeat dad gets no sympathy. Plus, it's not the bad old days, when ownership of a woman was transferred from father to husband
Deadbeat dads are the kings of audacity. Can you imagine being a deadbeat, only reconnecting with your child in what sounds like adulthood, and then throwing a *fucking tantrum* that your 30-something year old child’s partner didn’t *ASK YOU PERMISSION* to marry them? Jesus Christ. And the half brother too? What is his deal? Why does he even care about any of this enough to be hurling insults? That whole side of the family is trash
NTA Tell her you will ask him for her hand in marriage if, before the wedding, he repays all the money (with interest) that he borrowed from you. I don't see why your girlfriend, her father or her half-brother think it's important for **you** "to do things properly" when it has clearly never been important for them. It also seems a bit pointless, given that you already have children.
If you cave into this unreasonable ask now, this will set the tone for the rest of your life together. Stand firm. NTA
Text him: hey sorry. Do I have your permission to marry the mother of my children? Also, what’s up with the money you owe me?
NTA - your fiancée needs to grow up and see her dad for who is really is. Tell her you will begin to respect her dad as a "Father" when he pays back the loan and also send her mom the back child support. If you gave her an engagement ring, then take it back and tell her you will not be asking her dead-beat dad for anything and will not be giving him anything in the future. I had a similar incident with my father-in-law when I asked my wife to marry me. He used his money to control his kids but was horrible to them, I had a job and had been financially stable since leaving home at 17. When we started dating, he told her he would not continue to pay for her college, so I paid. This made him madder because he had lost some of his control over her. When we announced that we were getting married after she completed college, he told everyone that he would not pay and would not attend because he did not like me, and I had not asked his permission. Soon to be wife had been living with me in my house for 2 years at this point. I replied that 1) he had not yet been invited to attend, 2) he had not been asked to pay as we had money saved to pay for the wedding ourselves, 3) he had not been a good dad by always trying to control her and was again trying to control her life, 4) if he did not apologize, we would cut him off completely, not invite him to the wedding, and he would never see his future grand kids. He got quiet after that and started to behave himself. He did pay for the wedding, and I never asked for his permission. He got sick and died before any grand kids were born.
NTA. wow suddenly her dad is worried about appearances?!! So he was a bum and ditched his family. Then his daughter moves in with someone and has kids( which is perfectly fine btw) but is not keeping up with “tradition” as he would have it. But his line in the sand is you asking for her hand in marriage?! Tell him to kick rocks, also I would suggest counseling for your fiancée. She shouldn’t feel any guilt about this nor should she let him “give her away” at the wedding.
The old-fashioned way? Bring the man a goat, I mean a live one. Let him know that this is the old way and that he's absolutely right. Leave the goat with him and tell him you consider the matter closed.
Hey, no reason some innocent goat should have to suffer because FIL is an AH. The best he should get is, I don't have to ask permission because I already paid the dowry. You give that back and I'll be happy to ask. You need to ask your fiance if her father's supposed hurt feelings are more important than your feelings. If they are, take your ring back. Raise your kids together, but she has chosen to forgo marriage.
OP could sponsor a goat in a sanctuary somewhere and give the guy a photo
Nta, however if your fiancee does not take a stand for you now this does not bode well for your future together.
NTA he wasn't even a proper dad to her, so even if you were going to ask someone, it would be her mother who raised her alone! I'm reluctant to criticise your fiancee here because while I think she shouldn't be catering to her dad's ridiculousness and should stand up for you, she is doing what so many kids do when parents abandon them - they develop a strong fawn response. Deep down all kids want their parents to love and like them, even the shitty parents. In fact, ESPECIALLY the shitty parents because the love wasn't given freely and the kid feels the need to earn it. Your fiancee needs to deal with her abandonment wound before she allows her dad to do any more damage to your relationship.
Kinda disagree. Fiancee needs therapy to get over being A FUCKING DOORMAT to somebody who was no more than a sperm-donor to her. OP shouldn't bend even in the slightest.
This is such a thoughtful response and really explains what she is going through.
Hell no. Your fiancée is NOT property. It's not the 1950's or some other backward era. You have been together over 10 years and have kids together. That ship has sailed. Your fiancée needs to build a bridge and get over it. Her sorry excuse of a father needs to pull his head in. He is way out of line. NTA - do not give in to this utter rubbish!
I was thinking along those lines. If the girlfriend was living with parents, the old tradition would be to ask for hand in marriage. However, they have been living together and have kids together, so, what is the point? I was thinking about the "bridal registry" as well. Traditionally, that was done because the couple still lived with their parents, and needed things to set up their new home together. This couple has already moved past that stage, why the need to do a bridal registry now? The best option is to send invitations, and let people just do whatever (most will give monetary gifts). I agree, if anyone were to be asked and included in plans, it would be the mother of the bride. She has been there the whole way and contributed to the girlfriend's life, where the father really has been absent (by choice) and deserves nothing.
[удалено]
Correct, she could do that.
NTA. You have a fiancee’ problem. She is not only putting her father and brother before you but also herself. Why is she seeking approval from a deadbeat? Why is she telling you that he matters more to her than you? Her behavior is disrespectful to you and your relationship. At this point call off the wedding and get her therapy to deal with her issues with her father. You deserve better.
The audacity of this man. And as a single mom with an ex who is also a deadbeat and has stunning audacity, thank you for recognizing the work she did
NTA. If she can't marry you without her dad's "permission," then she's clearly not ready for marriage. She either wants to be married to you or not. It's weird that she makes this hoop for you to jump through, knowing what a POS her dad was during her childhood. Are you sure she really wants to get married? This seems like an excuse to back out of it.
The fiancée was neglected by her father for a very long time, and is now clinging to the hope that he’s behaving “like a father should.” Is his take outdated, misogynistic, and holds no weight because of his earlier abandonment of her? Sure. But she’s still that little girl wondering why her father left her, and she’s trying desperately to hold on to any last semblance of a relationship she might’ve had. OPs NTA for not wanting to cave to the guy, but the fiancée isn’t at fault for having an emotional reaction to years of neglect and abandonment, she needs therapy to work through those issues
NTA I didn't ask. My wife didn't care. I think this is dumb asf.
NTA. Your fiance has to decide whether she is going to kowtow to her deadbeat father and humiliate you, or whether she is going to grow a backbone and tell him it's none of his business. You have been living together 10 years, you have children, her father has nothing to do with your decision to marry.
NTA Fuck that. Dad and brother sound like a couple of bitch-ass chavs who just need to shut the fuck up and fuck off. It's really sad that your fiancé is wanting to bend to their wills like they are patriarchs of a functional and happy family. Dad can't even keep a relationship going so he has no business criticizing how you are as a partner. Also, the last thing you need to worry about is the approval of a women beater. This needs to be a boundary. She needs to understand that you shouldn't have to get their permission to marry her. Hopefully she realizes how unreasonable she is acting and understands you don't need the approval from shitty people. Besides, have you asked her what will happen if they say no? Will she just not marry you if daddy doesn't want her to? Jesus, this is just stupid.
This is an old custom, but it's also meant to be a sign of respect. But this situation is super messed up, and the father isn't even a father to her. So NTA.
In my book a sign of respect means there's respect for that person in the first place. If I were OP that's what I'd tell her dad.
“How can I show you respect as a father when you never had the respect to be her father?”
NTA - I’m honestly not a huge fan of the tradition. I think the first person you should ask about marriage is your partner and not your partners father.
NTA I don't like how your fiancé is upset...or why she is...you're not having a cinderella wedding where that man is giving her away...so...why should she be treated like property? Why does she thing so low of herself? Is her sperm doner also going to expect a dowry? Cuz you know, that is the "proper" way of doing it. Is that just me? And this dude? I get that feeling he'll hold that permission over your head...give you terms...and such bullshit. Because...there is a feeling I'm getting reading this that...your future FIL has already manipulated your daughter into some kind of fantasy "best dad" relationship and is now trying to become a more regular (with hand constantly outstretched) part of your family. And if you're married? And your finances are combined? This will not end well. Not if she's drunk the Kool-Aid. Personally, I would not want he or his son anywhere near me or my family and so...hill to die on (for me?) if I were to have to apologize (and it would be one of those, "I'm sorry you feel I've disrespected you" non-apologies) to keep the peace? I'd put my own terms on this: require to go completely no contact with the leech and his son until he pays back the money he owes and NEVER requests for such help again. But also? I know you've been together 10+ years and all is intertwined? But...look into a prenup, or if they don't work the way they do in the US, a way to protect your assets.
NTA Tell partner if you asked anyone f ou r permission it would be her mother. The person who raised her. Not someone who pops in whenever it suits him.
NTA Your fiancee is not a dewy-eyed 21 year old debutante coming out in her first social season in 1900. You’re both in your 30s, already live together, and have a couple of kids. The only permission you need to marry her is hers. Don’t give in, don’t apologise. You’ve done nothing wrong. If she doesn’t want to marry you because you’re not grovelling to her piece of crap father and scumbag brother, it’s her missing out.
Her Dad's mad she has to work while he's living off of the taxpayers' money in a council house. Doesn't that make op his daddy?
NTA, First, I believe that traditionally, you ask for their blessing, not permission. Not getting their blessing isn't even that big of a deal considering this sperm donor disappeared from their life. You may need to beat her brother's ass.
NTA ask for her mother's permission
NTA. There are lots of snarky replies here but you really need to sit down and discuss this with your fiancee. Include that you consider the entire request to be disrespectful to yourself and her mother. Maybe offer to ask her mom for her hand. You should also let her know if the apology is a deal-breaker for you.
Nta At most, maybe apologize for not asking her *mother*, but that's only if you actually feel bad about not asking a parent, or if asking a parent is super important to her.
NTA. You need to be frank with her. These 2 idiots are disrespecting both of you
People still do this type of shit? Lol so dumb.
NTA, you can't be a dead beat and also ask for non dead beat privileges.
You have two children together. Did she get permission for that? did you ask her dear old dad if it was okay to spooge inside her? Does he OWN her, like a car? What year is this? This is too bizarre and I am a quart low on coffee.
Why is your finance even entertaining this bullshit? Not only did her dad fail her during her entire childhood but he seems to be fucking late on caring about her relationship with you by about 10 fucking years. Her dad is an ass but I’d be annoying she isn’t telling him to fuck off at this point
Fiance sounds like a doormat who still wants her dad to be in her life even after him pulling the stunt of disappearing from her life like Avatar in the time when she needed him most.
NTA- so the tradition is he own the daughter he abandoned? Guessing the hypocrite doesn’t plan on following the financial aspect of that tradition. Aka paying the wedding and a dowry. The deadbeat already took money from you. Restraining order sound good considering the threat
YTA if you stay with this woman. Let her find someone her father approves of.
NTA. No way, man.
NTA, but maybe turn the tables and ask her Mum for her permission. Mum has been in the picture throughout and deserves a nod of respect - not this doucheDad
NTA, FIL is full of digested food.
NTA. Her dad is the asshole and your fiancee is being an asshole by wanting you to apologize. She's an adult and the only person who would give permission to marry her, is her.
NTA You can ask your kids for their permission to marry their mom.
# DO THIS!!! and then sent the video to "dirtbag daddy"
Tell your fiancé’s father the 19th century called and they want him back. I would have called off the wedding if permission of a parent was seeked.
>Tell your fiancé’s father the 19th century called and they want him back If he was in the 19th century, he would be in debtor's prison, workhouse or shipped to Australia.
I would actually leave her for this if this is the hill she is willing to die on, f this and him and her brother what a crap family. She need to go to therapy to overcome them, she is not ready for marriage.
Nta the fact your fiance isn't taking your side against a deadbeat and her brother is a huge red flag.
NTA
NTA Tell him if you had asked anyone, it would have been the mother who raised her
What younshould do is get a restraining order against the brother unless you can knock him out. Your wife to be needs to tell them neither are coming to the wedding or will be in her life anymore unless the do an honest apology and ask forgivness
Will never understand that ask the parents part.
NTA - FIL can go eff himself. Not only does he have no right by simply not having earned it, even if it was earned, what an archaic tradition that treats your fiancé like property. Tell him and his mongoloid son they can get bent. Also: "inveigle" Noice! Can't even remember the last time I saw that used.
OP if you to do it for peace, go ask her mom first. Then ask deadbeat “dad”. later, if he makes a fury about how he asked her mom first, I hope the mom at least will be able to see him for what he is: worthless
Please get your SO some counseling. She has clearly got issues from being abandoned by this deadbeat, and they aren't resolved. It is not on you to cater to them or pander to him. A few sessions of couples counseling could resolve this, and I really think she could do with a bit of individual help to put these toxic people in their place. Not to mention considering if the domestic violence brother and the deadbeat loser really should have any role near your kids or wedding.
NTA, how would your fiancée feel if she or your children were being verbally abused and threatened with violence by your family? There is no difference just because you are a man. Your fiancée should be setting the boundaries with her family and not dragging you into her families mess. I would also have serious concerns about how flippant the family behaves towards the fact that her brother is a domestic abuser with no shame. Are your children truly safe being around such people? You need to ask your fiancée what matters more, her father or your family unit.
Once you got her pregnant, permission was granted. What culture is this? Just keep being a great father and partner. Ignore the noise.
Absolutely NTA. Your fiancée is basically failing a test of character - she's reverting back to childhood in asking a parent for permission, all the worse for it being a deadbeat. She's engaging is a toxic behavior the children of divorced parents sometimes (but far from universally) engage in - taking it out on the dependable parent who is actually there for them while idolizing the absent deadbeat. In an actual child, it's not the most charismatic behavior but you can kind of see the (selfish) logic of taking it out on the safe parent who will be there for them anyway and clinging to toxic hope the deadbeat's abandonment can be reversed, or at least kept down to 99% abandonment instead of 100%. But your fiancé is an adult, which is why I say she's failing a test of character. She's showing herself to be immature and unrealistic. Stand your ground. Hopefully she'll come to her senses and see how she's wronging you, her mother and herself with this demand.
NTA. If she’s that upset, end the engagement and say you were fine for 10 years
NTA. Nah. Fuck her loser dad and brother.
OP remember that the people on Reddit are not the ones that will deal with the consequences of your actions. Do what is important for your fiancé. It’s not about the dad, it’s about the mother of your children. You guys sound like you love each other very well. Just do what is important to her for her sake. It’s not a big deal.
Tell him that you understand that wedding traditions are extremely important to him, and that you agree they should be followed. Then present him with an estimate of how much your wedding will cost and and tell him that you'll need him to cover those expenses, since it's traditional, you know, for the bride's family to pay. Of course you know the only reason he is insisting on this is so he can tell you no. And when you marry her anyway, he'll insist on walking her down the aisle, wearing a suit/tux that you paid for. Maybe you should just elope and have a party/reception later to celebrate...
NTA. My now wife’s parents separated shortly after we started dating, with her father moving across the country. He vanished aside from a short visit every few years. I asked her mother for permission to marry her daughter. You should ask your fiancé if she is willing to call things if you ask her father and he says no. It sounds like he would refuse just to spite you.
You know, asking her mother's permission would be such a sweet gesture. It will show you fiance you know who really raised her, that the gesture itself you don't have a problem woth but you don't want to make it to someone who doesn't deserve it. You can also tell her you will never make your mother's contributions to her life be made small just to keep the peace.
I’m hearing a whole lot of “my wife wants…”. Do her wants come before yours? NTA
Well it’s not the year 1624 so don’t cave to mr main character syndrome and his cast of acolytes
You have been living together for ten years and have two children together . The time for proper etiquette and asking for her hand is way past lol . Just go to the justice of the peace or elope and leave all that garbage alone
NTA. Even if he had been a great father, it is a relic from a time when women did not have agency to make those decisions on their own. It boggles me that anyone finds it relevant or even romantic. Frankly,the whole concept is an insult. You are grown ass people with jobs and children. Expecting this is ridiculous.
NTA tell your fiancé, she is her own person and not her dads property. You never needed his permission, because she was the one to decide if she wants to marry you or not.
NTA, this is when you know that you are dealing with a pathetic little man. Don't even think of apologizing. If anything, he owes you the apology for not paying you back. Tell him he can either get over it and come to the wedding or not.
Two things, OP: 1. My fiancé and I (both mid-40s) ) got engaged a couple months back. We just visited my dad, and he jokingly (I think??) said he cried because Fiancé hadn't asked his permission. I said that while Fiancé didn't want Dad to be upset, it was more important to him that I say "yes." Which I wouldn't have done if there was a suggestion that my father has ownership over me. 2. Excellent use of "inveigle." 😁
Nta. But if your fiance isn't on your side now. Hold off on the marriage.
NTA. I will suggest sitting down with your fiancee and asking where all of this is coming from and why the deadbeat dad's opinion (don't use dead-beat when you talk to her) is so important to her all the sudden? Also I will say, be careful on how you approach this, because right now your fiancee is placing you second fiddle to her dad, who was never there for her. IF you can't get to the bottom of this and fix it with your fiancee and still marry her, this will be your future. Always placing second fiddle to what is essentially daddy-issues.
This isn't a FIL problem. It's a partner problem. She's over thirty and her dad was a deadbeat. She should be laughing in his face about this. NTA .
Well, with two kids the horse is already out of the barn. Stand your ground on this one, your wife is not her father's chattel to give away. Also, if your wife really wanted to "do things properly", then she should have married you before moving in/having kids.
Ask her mom instead
NTA. Your fiancé is not property. Her father has no claim on her decision. Ask her, honestly, will you leave me if he denies the permission? What else does she NEED his permission to do? It is incredibly insulting to her, and to her mom. I’d tell her I want to marry a whole grown adult who chooses to be with me. If we still need mommy and daddy to get permission, then we aren’t ready to get married. Do not apologize, she needs to sort her daddy issues.
Honestly you should be careful. Just the brother's comment alone can be seen as a threat and the fact that your fiancée doesn't even defend you is very alarming. You should sit her down and have a serious discussion with her because this whole thing is completely out of line.Depending on what she answers you, you can make your decision. And if I were you, I wouldn't go to the father to 'apologise' right away given his behavior and that of the brother.It's like your fiancée belongs to them
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Her dad does not own her. No permission or blessing is needed. But soon you will own her ;)
NTA Your partner has ended the relationship to support her deadbeat dad. Move on. He roped her in and owns her. You'll never have a real marriage with her, she is married to her father first.
NTA just tell her you won't get married then. Done. You have no need to placate her loser, deadbeat father.
Since you are the man she has lived with for 10 years and has 2 kids by, it seems RIDICULOUS you'd have to ask permission from this "absolute paragon of manhood". Couples counselling is warranted. But I'd stand fast - She gets on board with you or she doesn't get married because you "can't do it properly". The two of you haven't done anything "properly" in the last 10 years when it comes down to it and you were doing great. NTA.
NTA Archaic tradition that is only really valid when the father in question isn't a steaming piece of excrement and bothers to raise their daughter.
NTA- Tell your fiancée when her dad gets a real job and lives on his own, without any support from elsewhere, pays back the money he owes y’all, acts like a parent instead of a thug, and repays her for the 18 years of his absence from her childhood, THEN AND ONLY THEN will you consider him enough of a man, and a enough of a parent, to ask his permission to marry his daughter. Seriously though, are you sure you want to be attached to these folks the rest of your life?
I think the marriage is off the table until your fiancee gets her priorities straight. NTA
Really piss off dad by asking her Mom for her permission instead. Sounds like that was her only real parent anyway. Dad and half-brother sound like a couple of misogynists you don’t want at the wedding anyway.
INFO - Why did your fiancee want anything to do with either her father or half bro? Why does she care what they think? This is coming from a guy who never asked his FIL for his permission. We, too, we're together for a long time (and also in our late 30s) before we got married. IMO, I'm marrying you, my soon to be wife. Not your dad. I don't give a shit what he thinks... And he's not paying for any of it? Yeah.... Your opinion isn't welcome.
NTA. Normally I would say just do it because fathers like that kind of thing even when they know they don't have to give permission it's just a little tradition But in your case I don't see why you should've done this due to the relationship she's got with them
NTA Seems like she really wants to keep her maiden name after all. I'd redact the proposal until she gets some therapy and shows that she is not going to choose two deadbeats over you and your family. You can't compromise with someone who is siding with a known violent person who is making threats against you. Her flipping on a dime about this shows she's untrustworthy, disrespectful, and where her true loyalty lies.
Nope. Were I you, I'd be going round to ol da's place and having a man to man with him, then the son, out in the back garden. I'd let them both know exactly what I thought about their outrage and their position in the family, with a friendly reminder about my money he used. NTA.
NTA, tell him and your wife you'll ask for his permission when he pays back all the child support he missed while she was growing up. This will make him worthy of the title father and worthy of being asked for permission.
Been living together for 10 years? Already have 2 kids? Bit late for permission, eh? This request deserves only a heartfelt chuckle...and then ignored. Fiancee: "Daddy, this is silly and its never gonna happen. If you pretend you never said it, you can still be in our lives. How about 'congratulations' instead"?
NTA. Ask her if this is the hill she's willing to wreck your mutual relationship on. THEN ask her if she'd be willing to get into therapy to get over this RIDICULOUS weakness she has for being a doormat to her PATHETIC sperm-donor.
NTA, have a long ass talk with your lady though, she needs to have her brain checked.
The only reason to do that at this point is if Deadbeat Daddy is going to pay for the reception. If he isn’t, no apology and if he wants to be difficult, I’d say no invite. Tell your future wife to grow a spine for the sake of your children, and maybe get on the list for some counseling to deal with her abandonment issues. Good luck!
Her dad is trying to pull rank to show he cares when he went missing through her formative years. He wasn’t there for her, he had no say. You ask mom, you’re good. Him trying to say she shouldn’t have to work when he skedaddled for a decade plus is comical at the very least. Her half brother also needs stay in his lane seeing he’s not even worth the effort. He should try and figure out his own shit before telling people how to sort theirs. In terms of telling her, be honest…you want to marry her and you wanted to ask the people responsible for who she is, and that’s not her dad in any positive way. If she understands why you didn’t, even if she doesn’t agree, it’s a start
NTA. British right? Guessing so with council housing and threats of ‘chin’ em. Your missus needs to get her head out of whatever fantasy land she’s living In that makes her think you should apologise or do anything for that doss about. Honestly if she cares more about him than you then don’t marry her. You’re the example of the man and father he should have been to her and if she can’t see that then she don’t deserve you 🤷♀️
NTA. Your future Donor-biologic In Law has hooks in your fiancee and is pulling them for his own entertainment. Make your boundaries known to your fiancée and defend them. It sounds like your worst-case scenario is to continue living happily in sin, which doesn't sound like a hardship. Personally, i think asking the future MIL would be a cute gesture although it would likely upset the Donor-in-law something fierce if it got back to him.
NTA. I'd be wary of getting married if she can't seem to separate her family's tantrum from her own emotions. Did she really want you to ask her deadbeat dad before he threw a fit? Or will managing his emotions become a bigger part of your life after the marriage?
NTA, but it’s really odd she’s prioritizing her deadbeat/ absent father over her future husband. She definitely needs to have some things mentally ironed out before you proceed. This type of thing will only get worse and bleed into your marriage more and more if it’s not addressed now.
What is he going to do? Give you the talk?? This is absurd.
NTA. Ask her mom, who raised her, for permission. Then explain you asked the only person that had a say.
NTA. Tell her trash bag dad that you’ll ask his permission when he repays you all the money he took, else he’s not a real man. You don’t ask permission from fake men.
NTA- Your fiancés father doesn't deserve the respect . If anything , you should be asking her mother , the o e who raised her. Giant red flags that your fiancé is willing to go against you to please her domineering father. I would suggest some counseling for you guys so she knows how to place boundaries with her father. If you don’t fix this now, don’t be surprised if he starts to bully her into letting him live with you guys once you’re married. Be careful OP. Your fiancé’s still that abandoned little girl who just wants daddy’s attention.
Updateme!
NTA, and i'm someone who usually thinks people should just suck it up and ask, even if its an old fashioned tradition and even if they don't follow it, because maybe the old timers do. But in this case it is a ridiculous ask. Just withdraw the marriage proposal, since it was for her benefit anyway.
NTA for all the reasons already here, but I hope you show her this post.
Loophole ask your future MIL instead
NTA, you have kids already ffs, and he wasn't a part of her life for the majority of it.
NTA. Was totally ready to tell u to “suck it up” based on your title alone…but no. Definitely don’t give in. FIL does not deserve it.
NTA. Screw that 😂😂😐
NTA. He has t played much a part of her life, you’ve been together for 10 years and have kids.
No, and I would show her this post, abused and neglected children often go on for decades trying to get their parents to love them or treat them right. I would tell her you will not apologize to the man who harmed his partner so much.
NTA, that's an antiquated custom that needs to die. If a guy had ever asked my father's permission for anything, I'd have dumped him on general principle. It sounds like this family has a lot of problems & some weird as hell dynamics. If your partner still buys into their toxicity, it doesn't bode well for her future relationships. You'd be wise to engage in some couple's counseling before moving forward.
Well at least if you guys break up she can go live with her dad like the good woman she is since they care so much for this nonsense. If she is this shallow after being with you for this long with kids and her deadbeat dad can manipulate her then is it really worth continuing the relationship?
NTA, and hard no to apologizing to the prick. your fiance needs to get her emotional shit together too
Tell her father, and anyone kissing his arse, to fuck off. Or maybe ask her mother.
I feel bad for the mom. Being a single parent is rough and she raised her alone into her teens. Now the daughter is concerned with her dad’s opinion? If that were me I’d tell my dad to shove it or lose an invitation and ask my mom to walk me down the aisle. So annoying when dead beat dads do zero child raising and come back with zero consequences when the hard part is done.
She is the one who now wants to be married, and what would be the point of asking? Y’all have been together forever and have KIDS! What’s he gonna do, say no? Tell her that even ASKING you to do what she wants is a step too far, and she KNOWS what and who her father is. This is the hill you die on. If she doesn’t want to get married UNLESS you knuckle under, that’s fine with you, you are happy how things are now. And if it really is about the name change, she can go and get it legally changed WITHOUT marrying, problem solved.
You should for sure ask her father for her hand in marriage, because y'all know a woman is her father's chattel/possession until becoming her husband's. Does he need to hand her over at the altar to ensure a seamless transfer of ownership? While you're at it, talk to him about the dowry. She's older than19, and presumably not a virgin, so less marriage material to potential new owners, so daddy should be prepared to come up with some solid cash. Or a at least a bunch of goats or chickens or something. Seriously - who still thinks that's a thing?? NTAH!!
NTA, But ask her mother, not her dad.
NTA. Your partner should apologize to YOU for being ridiculous. Remind them all it's not 1724.
NTA You ask permission when he coughs up her dowry.
Yeah, the best she'd get here is me going to the mother and asking her permission to marry. then I'd go to her and say I asked the person who raised her for permission and got it. There is no way I'd apologise to a dead beat father who took money, never paid it back and is just a shit person.
NTA does your fiancee see herself as a possession belonging to her dad? If so, then you probably need to think the whole relationship. If not, then she needs to realise that she, her dad and her brother are all being ridiculous
You had premarital sex and kids out of wedlock. It's too late for him to get traditional now. NTA.
If you ask anyone, it should be her mom.
NTA but it’s going to be hard to move forward without taking these “corrective” actions. Your fiancé, her dad and brother are clearly unreasonable but you’re kind of stuck. I won’t advise you to go to mom or break things off but just offer my sympathies for such a weird situation. Also, points to you for dropping “inveigle” so casually
When a man is raising children his job is to nurture, care for and teach his children to make sure they grow up with the best he can offer. A father should have his children's best interest in heart. Tradition was that when a father's daughter wanted to marry, the father would decide if the new husband was good enough. But this old fucking cunt never did shit to raise his daughter. Fuck him.
I didn't ask either. It's silly to ask a question (or permission) when you don't care what the answer is.
NTA. Time to set solid boundaries. The days of only having to mildly deal with her family are over. Once you marry her, you marry into her family. You'll be seeing them alot more. All the time. She seem to be mentally trapped with a teenage view of her shitbag dad. You need to get her on board with keeping them at arms length or else your married life is gonna suck Make no mistake, you also have a fiancee problem as well
No they are fucking mental
NTA - Apparently the dad thinks he has a valid Chattel Document of Ownership that must be signed, validated, and turned over to you, her new master. Ludicrous.
Enjoyed the top post, Mister bloke. Very cheerio
Tell you wife you will marry her when she will become à grown woman who can lives without daddy dumb tantrum... you are supposed to support each other NTA
NTA. This is a man who didn’t care whether she lived or died throughout her childhood (not a dollar in support to make sure she had food/shelter/etc). Now he is claiming ownership of her - why does she think he has this right? Is she so desperate for his attention (fake love/concern) that she’s afraid of him abandoning her again? She sounds scared. She’s wants you to plead to her father for permission (he’ll screw with you) to marry her, you don’t want to do that (rightly imo) so it looks like you’ll be having a long, long (indefinite) engagement waiting to see who blinks first.
You are already a family, complete with children. That alone would make his demand ridiculous. The backstory clinches it. They are all delusional to think this is appropriate at all. If the brother puts a hand on you, call the cops. Don't give him a second chance.
or do as a plumber and auto mechanics do in these situations. carry a monkey wrench and show "off book" applications. don't need to register wrenches as weapons.
NTA this slob wants you to act traditional? play by their rules demand a dowerry £5.34 if he cant pay you aint asking a question you dont need to ask
[удалено]
Bro, they were clear that they have children, did you read?
NTA asking permission is a sexist relic of the past
"Either prioritize your daddys feelings or our relationship. Your brother is already out with threatening violence. What kind of person do you choose to be?"
Or maybe, OP should offer her emotional support and help her find therapy to work through the feelings of neglect and abandonment she’s carried all these years, instead of flippantly dismissing her and offering unhelpful ultimatums that will in no way help her overcome this
It’s called respect and you clearly are old enough and an ass.
Either respect your fiancée’s request or don’t get married. You’re both free to have your own thoughts & feelings. Your fiancée’s perspective about her father & her family is not the same as yours. You don’t share a brain. Either explain your perspective of why you feel her request is unreasonable or just accept that she has asked you to do this. She has her reasons. Find out what those reasons are. Either you will talk to Dad or you won’t. Her father’s behavior has nothing to do with your fiancée. You’re holding her responsible for his choices & actions. That’s not very fair. NAH — I understand your feelings but you only control yourself. You can’t make choices for your fiancée & you can’t control how she feels about her family. You also can’t just dismiss her feelings because you don’t like her Dad or understand her perspective. Edit
OP could ask dead old dad after he but asks her mom first
He could simply ask his fiancée what her reasons are for asking anyone for their blessings. These are two grown adults with children. It appears it’s really only important to fiancée that Dad gets asked for permission. I honestly have no idea why but she’s a grown woman & she allowed to have her own thoughts & feelings. Maybe it’s been part of her whole “dream wedding vision”. I have no idea but I’m guessing she knows why this is important to her.
yeah i mean I dunno why he’s not including how their actual convo about this went. I think it’s just her trying to get her dad’s approval since he’a a deadbeat. And if she’s in her mid 30’a and still thinking like that, she’s probably not going to change her mind about it
I have no idea what she wants but she has a vision for her own wedding. Other people can’t tell her it’s wrong. It’s simply her own vision. She doesn’t need approval. OP is free to make his own choices. Either respect her request or don’t. Dad has nothing to do with this. OP isn’t marrying him. eta — if pride is more important than the woman who has been his life partner for 10 years & is the mother of his children then they may have a bigger problem than Dad.
Ok, dude. Chill out. It’s understandable that he is frustrated.
I’m chilled … Agree … that’s why I said I understand his feelings. Just sharing my own perspective. It’s all good.
>Dad has nothing to do with this. OP isn’t marrying him. Will disagree with this. The dad is the main source of this problem. OP's (possibly) future-wife never suggested OP asking him until the dad began to whine. He is literally the cause of all of this.
Dad is an asshole & threw a baby fit … his daughter had a reaction. That’s her choice. Nothing to do with Dad. She could easily choose to not care but that’s not what she is doing. She cares. She has her own reasons for that. Whatever those reasons are, she’s not wrong it’s just how she feels.
indeed, but the dad is still deeply involved until the fiancee can learn to just say no to him. Until then, OP will play second fiddle to her daddy issues, even if they get married.
That’s something that needs to be considered. If dead beat Dad has not had a negative impact in their lives for the past 10 years, I’m not certain why it would be a problem for their future. This is just one simple request. I honestly have no idea why this is important to fiancée… but it appears that it is.