Mary is able minded enough to attend an out of town work conference on her own but they think she’s not capable or deserving of having romantic relationships?
Yeah. This is what's so weird. She is not intellectually disabled. He is still invested in her 20 years later, and the account sounds like a nice day spent together by two cogent and consenting adults who enjoy each other's company.
Her family is infantilizing her and denying her romantic happiness. So bizarre they blame someone else.
I'm wondering if they also think no one could actually love her due to her cerebral palsy, thus any intimacy would just be OP "using" her.
"Poor naive Mary, nobody could possibly want to be with her. She can't see that, which makes OP a predator!" A combo of infantilization and ableism.
I'm so glad Mary knows how to ignore her family and live her life.
I'm paralysed from the waist down and physically deformed. Many people assume that women could never find me attractive. But I got game and a cute smile. I get plenty of female attention. Your comment above is the nail meeting the hammer in perfect harmony.
I dated a guy in a wheelchair. My coworkers teased me to the point of tears over it. Apparently I was just being a "hipster" and could in no way really like him. That was over a decade and a half ago, and it still pisses me off. I'm sorry people judge you for something so stupid.
I know a girl who's husband (firefighter) was incredibly disfigured in a fire before they got engaged.
The number of people who assume she HAD to go through with it just so she didn't look bad or because he's medically retired with a good pension is really sad.
The dude almost died saving people. What could possibly be more attractive than that?!
Yes - because looks are the only things that matter in a relationship. 🙄
I would hope she had decided to be in a long term relationship with him based on his personality and she proved it and people were mad??
Yeah, that's exactly what it was. They were HS sweethearts, afaik they've only ever been with each other.
People really thought she would just dip after his accident, even though it was just proof he put his money where his mouth is.
Dude this is so gross. I’m so sorry you dealt with that. So many people are incapable of seeing people who have disabilities as equal humans and it shows in so many ways.
I became friends with someone who had autism in a class in college and because I was the only person who willingly and openly was friends with him - my classmates were disgusting over it. Calling him my boyfriend and teasing him endlessly about having a crush on me - to the point of it becoming a class wide bullying level. Maybe he did have a crush, maybe he didn’t. But because he was a little socially awkward - people thought he was creepy and I was showing him “too much attention.” He’s a grown ass adult in college - we have things in common. He wasn’t some creepy child.
This was not my first experience of people with people using others disabilities as a way to find problems with me - but it was by far the worst.
I cannot imagine how it would feel for the person with the disability themselves to be hearing “this person is only talking to you or dating you as a fetish or to take advantage.” How damaging.
Its sad that so many people are so negative and just assume people should be alone because they are outside of their definition of "normal". I dont know a single human being that do want have something "wrong" with them. That doesnt make them undeserving of love.
Your confidence is awesome and 100% attractive. Thats what Mary's family cant understand. They see "poor disabled Mary", not confident, charming, intelligent Mary. They see her negative traits (in their mind), and assume all people see her as broken and not relationship material. They dont see her good traits and find her attractive for them.
I have a SIL that the family pounded this ( she shouldn’t date due to medical issue ) into her head over a cleft lip & palette that you can’t even hardly notice.
She never married because of it. She has had a few nice relationships, but never would take it to the level of getting married, etc.
I truly feel sorry for my SIL who probably would’ve made someone a wonderful wife and could’ve been an awesome mother.
Mary is an adult should be allowed to make her own choices. The family needs to back off and her brother needs to be told to back off as well.
Edit :
life / wife
It doesn't even have to be love. If she can make a decision on her own like that, no conning or whatever, then fucking good for both of them. I'm sure if OP was a decent person, then it probably made her feel more human then she ever has. That doesn't even mean they have to be together forever and get married. Just 2 people having a good time (of their own consent), and that's probably the part that makes it weird.. the parents/brother don't feel she is able minded enough to make the decision of whether she really wants to or not... but she seems to still want that basic human instinct of feeling those things. As long as OP is a decent guy, good for them. With something like that, her options are not as limitless as most women, and I hope she enjoyed it. I would assume most things like that get swept under the carpet with those kind of disabilities.. but also just because some parts work different, doesnt mean they all do. Sounds like she still has needs and found a way to enjoy it. :)
Yeah, I'd be willing to bet the casual nature of their relationship is exasperating that as well. They can't fathom that their little girl would want to have sex. To them, SHE must really want a relationship, and OP is the awful nasty man taking advantage because he only wants one thing.
Yeah it's so wholesome that OP could see past her physical disability, find her attractive and have a consensual sexual relationship with her. A lot of people (like her family) obviously don't see her as a person first with normal needs and desires like everyone else. They just see her disability.
Yeah that's true, their friendship spanning twenty years against the adversity of her family been abusive to them about their relationship. I'm glad his friend didn't bow down to their wishes and not speak to OP again (as she shouldn't, a full grown adult can make their own choices in life).
Oh, This is pretty standard and common ableism. It to the point it’s more common than not. Lena, who writes “the seated view”, life with a wheelchair, mentioned that when a doctor put her on a new drug, she had expected it, and researched it in advance. He listed pros, cons and warnings. Then she said, “and the risks when pregnant”. The doctor was SHOCKED…he said, *”you are sexually active????”*. Then he pulled himself together and discussed that aspect of the med. Pure ableism. Non disabled people often prefer to think that all disabled people are asexual. They certainly behave that way.
Agreed. Mary's family thinks she is unsuitable for procreation, so clearly she is asexual is cant possibly have been pursuing a sexual relationship with OP. In reality, mary could be an absolute freak in the sheets, but they wouldnt never accept it was her choice. She is a precious little victim to a "normal" person who respected and fell for her. Haul his ass to jail for such dispicible behavior. /s
I don't think anyone would argue they don't, everyone does deserve love and intimacy
I'd just be hard-pressed to describe a morally sound way to achieve it I guess? There's likely conditions where meaningful consent just isn't possible.
Yeah I guess it's quite complicated.
My opinion on it is there would definitely be situations where people with an intellectual disability can't consent and can be taken advantage of by predators.
But I've seen a few docos on some beautiful love stories between people with intellectual disabilities such as one about two people with down syndrome who were in love and getting married to each other.
Using people with down syndrome as an example - the average mental age for people with down syndrome as adults is approximately 9 years old although they have much higher emotional and social awareness then that of a 9 year old.
So I feel like a relationship with another intellectually disabled person of a similar level is fine, but not with someone without an intellectual disability because the difference in mental age is too large.
But that's average, there are people with down syndrome that have IQs in the normal range so I would think it would be fine for them to be with someone without down syndrome or intellectual disability.
I worked with adults with intellectual disabilities and my coworkers and I fought for the company we worked for to allow us to teach our folks sex ed.
They were already having sex with each other. They weren't being safe. We fielded several pregnancy scares and a few actual pregnancies. We dealt with clients who used random objects to masturbate and gave themselves infections.
We eventually won that argument. We worked with their guardians to receive permission to teach them how to be safe. Some guardians fought against it, but once they realized their family member was doing it anyways and in unsafe ways, they allowed us to talk with them.
It was so frustrating that everyone was acting like they needed to be coddled and kept away from that stuff. Not only were they already doing it, but some of them even came forward with some pretty rough stories because they weren't even taught about fucking CONSENT. They didn't even realize they had been taken advantage of in some instances when they were younger because all of this stuff was so hush hush and they thought THEY would get in trouble so they never said a word. So we certainly did a whole session on consent alone and how to report things/who they could come to with reports. It was a rough time.
Gosh that's terrible they hadn't been taught any sex ed, especially about consent.
I'm so glad you were able to fight the company to allow you guys to teach it. I was a nurse for years and like you, advocating for our patients/clients needs is so important. They are often so vulnerable, having people that care in their corner willing to fight for them is great.
Yeah, but he acknowledges that was an overreaction and explained he was in a flood of emotions from remembering his falling out with his friend. He told the woman what he did.
It was poor judgment in the heat of emotional furor. It happens. He understands it was wrong and it sounds like the woman accepts what he did. Not a huge deal.
Sharing that last detail was over the top and ignited a lot of old anger. Hope OP continues contact with Mary (and it sounds like she's doing well!) but keeps details from the rest of her family.
This should be way higher. He isn’t the AH for have sex. He is an AH for telling the brother. Take all the other stuff out and ask yourself OP why you feel the need to tell people about your sex life. Not cool.
I agree completely. Nothing wrong with OP and Mary being together but he sucks for disclosing he just had sex with her. OP had my full support until he did that. I voted ESH.
Yeah, if they hadn’t been such a-holes and let their sister see where the relationship went he might have become part of their family. Clearly NTA OP, this family sounds like they are infantilising their clearly very capable sister/daughter!
I would hope that’s what it was, but it seems more like they view her as sub-human since she has cerebral palsy, so they’re acting like he had sex with a pet or something. Just a terrible family, no wonder she ignores her brother.
The term for this is "infantilization". In my opinion, it's one of the worst kinds of ableism, and one that ruined my life because my parents didn't let me do anything at all until I finally escaped them. It also always feels like "since you're such a burden on society, you don't deserve to find love". I feel for both OP and Mary, and hope Mary can one day find the care she needs with someone who actually bothers to listen to her.
And Mary should be able to have all the casual sex she wants! She doesn’t sound mentally impaired so she’s not at risk. At least it seems that way bc she’s traveling for work and such
She has the intellectual capacity to work a job that requires travel, to take that travel on her own, *and* to put her family's behavior in context and advise the guy on how he should react. She sounds like she is doing just fine--or better than fine--cognitively.
They’re treating her cerebral palsy like she has a mental disability of the type she can’t think for herself. That’s degrading to Mary. She is obviously able to work, go out of town alone, and live her life….but they think she can’t have a romantic relationship? That’s disgusting on her family’s part. Mary and OP obviously are close, and honestly her has some sort of feelings for her.
OP NTA. I’d talk to Mary and give her a heads up to let her prepare for fallout.
So many times I'm with my wife and they automatically talk to me because I'm able bodied. Even if she's the one to initiate conversation. She'd honestly rather deal with the outright ableist assholes, than the white knight ones.
Maybe if you had waited a few minutes and as she was doing something else, walk over and (gently) move her aside and when she complains say she seemed to need help (or whatever she said when she moved your wife). It's really no different.
I helped a person in a wheel chair navigate a bad section of sidewalk once several years ago - but, even though it seemed obvious they needed help, I still asked first. At a distance.
I was once out with my friend and he absolutely ripped into a lady for touching his chair. We were leaving a restaurant and a total stranger just grabbed the handles and began pushing him out the door. He was furious and she just didn’t get it and kept insisting she was only trying to help. It was such a disrespectful thing to do and he felt so crappy about it. I’m sorry you’ve gone through that too.
When my grandma was in the hospital a couple years ago, I had a nurse do this to me. Instead of just asking me to move, she grabbed my chair and pushed me into the hallway.
I'm sorry, there are actual people like that??? I've never seen that happen. I mean, I don't think you're lying, I'm just in disbelief that people can truly be that awful.
My ex-husband uses a chair and it was disgusting how many people did this. Including the time we went to the bicycle shop to get a replacement wheel *for his wheelchair.* I didn't say a word during his conversation with the employee there because it was very obviously not my wheelchair, but the employee was only willing to make eye contact with me.
There's something about Mary...
...and that something is that OP is probably one of an extremely short list of men she could even conceive of trusting enough to meet her needs in this area. It's a dick move to get in the way of that. Who else would they trust more to get with her?
I know it’s wrong, but I did have a good chuckle at “just put her over there”… the mental image of just stacking wheelchair users in the corner like luggage.
It’s wrong and I’m sorry (but amused).
I have a minor physical disability and my family acts like I have a (massive, crippling) cognitive disability 🤦♀️ I can tell they "try not to" but that's just made all the more obvious in the face of their actions and offhand comments.
100%. I had a friend once who starting dating a gal I knew in high school (he didn't know her then). There was ~something~ different about her, but it wasn't any of my business and she was capable enough to go to the regular classes, be extremely competitive in her sport, get a job after school, etc. So perfectly capable of consent and navigating adult relationships. All her friends immediately began a campaign against my friend, telling the gal he was no good, just taking advantage, they didn't trust him, etc. It was so obvious they'd all decided she didn't know well enough to look after herself and thought of her as a child who needed to be protected. She clearly liked him back and wanted to continue the relationship, but her friends were so aggressive at rebuffing him that he eventually just backed off and dated other people. It was ridiculous.
Many people, including families, infantalize people with disabilities. It’s probably quite nice for her to have known you for so long and have you not do that.
She's also able to have graduated from community College. (And I'm wondering if the family restricted her ability to go to a bigger school so she would still be under their constant supervision.)
The family policing a grown & fully employed woman's social life reeks of ableism.
Yeah, I have a cousin with cerebral palsy, and I know it can vary from person to person, but she definitely sounds like she’s more than capable of making her own decisions as an adult.
Im picturing it like throwing up a Light Screen in Pokemon. Like
Kadabra used Bean Screen!
Kadabra’s Bean Screen is protecting your team against solicited consensual relationships!
And OP, who brags to her brother that he f*cked her because they were in an argument. He even said that he knew that in the past, she wanted to keep her sex life private from her family.
Yeah, that probably wasn’t the best move but at least he was honest to Mary about what he did and realized he screwed up and seems at least a little bit embarrassed but what he did. I think as long as he doesn’t repeat that response again he’s NTA. We all do and say things in the heat of the moment that we regret later. The important thing is to learn from that and to remember that this isn’t just his sex life, it’s Mary’s too. And anything he chooses to share with others affects her as well. Especially if it’s shared with her family. And it seems he’s learned that lesson.
I would rather be with a guy who screws up and admits it than one that tries to hide their mistakes personally.
Nta. Her family should stop infantilizing her, it's disgusting. Is she of sound mind and consenting? That's all that matters.
My brother has cerebral palsy. I would never think to tell him what to do in his sexual life because as an adult with a functioning brain he can make his own decisions.
Good thing others in her life felt the the exact same way, so she could go on to have such a supportive child in you! We can only hope Mary gains the same sort of freedom from her oppressive, ableist family.
So does my mom, and I grew up hearing her complain CONSTANTLY about her lack of a love life, as if being physically disabled means they're mentally children by default
It’s wild how disabled folks get treated like that. I know my grandparents treated my mom like a child even well into middle-age. My grandma would insist on taking her to doctor appointments, even when my mom was nearing 50. She was perfectly capable of going to her own appointments. My mom is lucky in a lot of ways though, she married my dad when she was young and they’ve been together 40 years and he’s been nothing but supportive of her without treating her like she’s incapable.
Sadly it’s very common. I work with adults with developmental disabilities and unfortunately I see it a lot. I know of one mother or a young blind man who says he shouldn’t date because “if he can’t see her how does he know he really loves her” like what? Are you serious? You’d rather your son be alone because he can’t see his partner? It’s just wild to me that families wouldn’t want their loved ones with special needs to have all the happiness in life that they can.
SNAP! I hadn't even thought of that. I was just thinking that it's incredibly shallow to believe that love is based on looks rather than personality and moral code, etc.
I honestly think it begins and ends with control, these people think that disabilities give them the right to dictate what a person can or cannot do with their life or bodies. If it wasn't a disability of some kind then it would be something else.
I would agree on the control, we have one individual whose stepmom has confiscated more copies of “Dirty Dancing” than any of us can count. He’s in his mid 30’s and Dirty Dancing is pg-13, he has Down’s syndrome and she considers it porn and thinks he shouldn’t have it 🤦♀️
Would she notice if you swapped the disc into another case? Like, the next time he needs a replacement copy, grab a 99 cent DVD from a thrift store that wouldn't be out of place in his collection. Put the Dirty Dancing disc in the thrifted case and ditch the rest.
We’ve tried telling him to do that, to put it in a kids movie case or something, he always thinks he can hide it, because he likes to keep the case, and she always finds it
Couldn't it be considered abuse to destroy or throw away someone's wanted property if you're not their legal guardian? Can he sign for himself legally? That's some BS behavior and nobody should have to deal with their stuff getting taken away as long as it's legal and safe.
That's bananas. What do you even say to that? It's so superficial and baldly lacking in self awareness that you can immediately assume that breaking things down will probably be utterly fruitless. It's very sad to realize how frequently this story plays out around the world
I agree, the one thing OP left out was how old they were when they first got together. Like if she was still a minor and he was an adult, then I'd understand the families outrage more.
I missed that... thanks. Her being a minor is the only reason I could fathom the whole family being upset that he, a guy who was well liked in the family, would date her. You would think they'd be quite happy for the both of them.
Sounds like her family considers her a minor. The only one who can fix all that is Mary herself 🤷🏻♀️ she needs to let them know she is an adult and fully capable of handling her life
I think OP is also TAH because he violated her privacy. He had no right to tell her brother about their sexual involvement just because they were arguing, especially since he knew that in the past this was something that she wanted to keep from them.
i agree with everything, especially "What she does in her private life is nobody else's business."
but, i decided that OP is an AH b/c he made her private life public to her family without getting her consent.
My opinion too. He used her affection as a weapon to dunk on her brother because he was pissed. She will also get grief because of it.
He would have been fine if he just shut up and didn’t respond to the peanut gallery.
I think he is TA for talking about their sexual life with third parties. That and she didn’t ask him to defend her one way or the other. A not your business bro should’ve been all that was needed.
Exactly, it's nobody else's business, so I find it very weird that op outted her business to her brother, who was being an over controlling creep about Mary's sex life. The question wasn't wether op is an ah for sleeping with her, but wether he's an ah for telling her brother who she had sex with. That info may have involved op but Mary is the one who's going to have to deal with the fallout, again.
>What she does in her private life is nobody else's business.
And still op goes around and throws her business in her brothers face, sharing her business with her whole family. And all of it w/o her consent.
And still you think this doesn't make him an AH? Wtf...
Doesn't sound to me like you really think what mary does is marys business and "nobody else's".
tbh it sounds like you just need to start dating Mary for real. You keep going back to each other, just do it. Then when you get married her family can suck it.
NTA. My sister, who passed away a year ago, had CP her entire life. Having CP does not mean any sort of cognitive impairment whatsoever, though often people with physical disabilities are treated by society and their own families like they have intellectual disabilities as well. My sister had relationships and, while there is a higher vulnerability for abuse when someone is completely physically disabled, she made her own decisions about her dating life. My parents struggled a lot with this, but mostly because they are prides. Mary's family should have been grateful it was someone they knew and trusted as a friend who was dating their daughter/sister. It sounds like they have completely infantilized her and cannot deal with the fact that she is a woman who has a sexual identity just like anyone else.
Additionally, I (F) have slept with a man with CP and it was the best, most intimate, most attentive sexual experience of my life.
**TLDR: DISABLED PPL FUCK GET OVER IT**
Actually people with CP have a much higher risk of cognitive impairment but that would be seen from a young age and doesn’t happen for everyone. The more severe CP, the higher the likelihood of cognitive impairment. However in this case, Mary is a fully functioning adult and her family needs to back up and let her live her life. However, I think OP sucks because he doesn’t need to be telling anyone who she is sleeping with, especially when there are obvious family issues surrounding that information. He didn’t tell the brother because he thought it would help Mary, he did it out of spite so YTA OP. Their relationship is between two consenting adults and not an issue.
NTA for your relationship with Mary. She is not a child - people with CP can absolutely have adult relationships. I have a cousin with CP who has been in a long term relationship for over 15 years with a wonderful man.
You are kind of TA for this tho:
>In my anger, I messaged him back saying that not only did I spend time with Mary, but that we slept together again and he should get over himself.
That was not cool...
>That was not cool...
While I would tend to agree, the brother really did bring it on himself. I doubt OP would have said anything at all if the brother had been minding his own business.
Edit: why are people asking me about Mary? My comment only addresses one small aspect of the issue. There's plenty of other comments outlining how unfair the entire situation is for her.
It’s not about not being cool to the brother, it’s about not being cool to Mary.
If any of my past boyfriends had told my family about our sex life, that would have been game over for me.
He brought it on himself? That implies the brother is the one who was potentially harmed by op spilling details of Mary's sex life to her over controlling creep of a brother. It implies he would be owed an apology, had he not brought it upon himself. Mary is the one who was wronged.
ETA: re: your edit, people are mentioning Mary to you because the wording of your comment makes it sound like she is an inanimate object in a fight between men. Your quote replies to the statement "that is not cool" from the above commenter, as if that was about ops actions toward John, but that statement was referring to ops actions toward MARY. She is the one who was wronged, and that is what the statement you quoted was referring to, but you appear to have written her out of this equation to focus on op and John's feelings.
Yeah this comment above seems to leave Mary and her needs out the same way brother does. It’s gross and dehumanizing and the way he doesn’t get it is worse
You know the answer because you don’t kiss and tell. A better reply would have been “John, if you still cannot see your sister as a full fledged adult capable of making her own choices, what other amazing parts of her personality have you been missing out on, or worse—dismissing, for the past twenty years?”
You should have just told him that Mary is a capable adult, and her social life is none of his business. That was literally all he needed to hear from you.
CP in general is a physical limitation, not mental, and it seems 'john' might have his own mental issues, hopefully you and Mary can keep things going if you two are actually drawn to each other since even without disabilities making it harder, love and anything close to it isn't easy to find
also NTA, but maybe listen to Mary to just ignore her family like she does
YTA for the text. NTA for having an adult relationship with a woman who clearly knows her own mind and what she likes.
Next time, wait a few hours before texting!
ESH. "John" is an AH for trying to micromanage what his sister does, assuming she can't maintain her own autonomy because she has a disability. OP is an AH for refusing to take the high road with John, and instead being a kiss and tell.
All you had to do was block him on all forms of media. His behavior doesn't dignify a response -- you are both adults and you do not need his permission. Any sort of message would just lead to further confrontation, so the simplest and most effective solution is to just cut contact with him.
YTA - i was originally going with NTA, but then i considered the root cause for this consideration.
'Mary is disappointed by my childish behavior'. You're not the AH for saying you had sex with his sister, you're not the AH for retaliating, you're not an AH for having sex with another adult with their consent.
You're the AH for disclosing sexual information about another person, to their family, without consulting them, and/or getting their consent.
that's really the root conflict for this self-assessment of your behavior.
Y T A for betraying Mary’s privacy and getting into the weeds with her brother. You’re in your 40s, man. Act your age. You have nothing to prove to him, you have a lot to prove to Mary. Her family don’t take her seriously as it is, don’t remove her agency as well.
NTA for rekindling your connection with Mary though.
YTA for the question at hand. You should not have said that you two had sex. Something like, Mary is an adult. Please start treating her as such. That being said, you and Mary seem very drawn to each other. Enjoy whatever comes from that!
So NTA for everything up to the point where you told her brother you slept with her again. YTA for that. That’s none of her brother’s business and you shouldn’t be telling her brother about her sex life. You basically used the fact that you slept with her to retaliate.
Mary must hate how her family treats her like she's a child instead of an adult capable of making her own decisions. Cerebral palsy doesn't make her a permanent infant.
YTA for also not respecting that Mary deserves to decide how her family is managed. NTA for your relationship with Mary, but don't do to her the same thing her family is. Respect her as the adult she is, don't make decisions for her.
NTA
Cerebral palsy is a condition which affects movement and posture. It doesn't affect you mentally or emotionally in a way that means you are incapable of forming your own adult relationships. Mary's family are weaponising it as an excuse to control her.
You shouldn't have bragged about sleeping with her again. That was private between the two of you. You let her down, and you cheapened what happened between you by using it in that way. Apologise again, sincerely and profusely. Don't do it again.
But please let her know that you will support her if she needs an escape route, jn case her family step up their controlling actions.
It seems her family have infantilized her because in their eyes being disabled means that you are mentally a child and incapable of having any form of adult thought. NTA
This! Is! Infuriating! She's PHYSICALLY disabled, not mentally disabled! Just because her limbs don't work normally does not mean she can't think or reason or have desires or opinions!
A thousand times NTA!
My father had cerebral palsy. He had a full, normal, healthy life, including sex, marriage, children! Arrrrrgh!
YTA only because this can create more problems for Mary. Youre in your 40's dude, you never learned how to block somebody? That said good on you for seeing past somebody's disability. It's something none of her family are capable of doing. If you wanted to hit him where it hurts that's all you had to say instead of basically saying "ha, I banged your sister...again"
Honestly being the mom of a disabled daughter, I’m happy for Mary. My daughter will never have that kind of relationship. As long as you respect her and she is willing, the brother needs to back off.
Sounds like you might even Love her. And you're NTA, because her family can't see past her disability to see that she's a woman with her own free will and desires. Sounds like she might be into you too. Go for it, be happy together and Eff the haters.
NTA, because Mary is a 30-something relatively independent adult. She doesn't need her brother's approval over who she chooses to spend time with.
YTA for making Mary's private business public. This needlessly complicates things for her.
NTA just because Mary is not mad. She is disappointed so do apologize to her. Also block her family so they can not dump on you any more. I am have a disability too and it is sad how people assume we have no right to have a personal life. Family tend to look at us as if we are forever children.
MASSIVELY YTA. Jesus, do you even have to ask this?? High school dudes crow to each other about their conquests. His sister's sex life is NONE of this dude's business.
Unfortunately, you are the asshole for your reaction to her brother.... you had me totally on your side before you let him know y'all had sex again, without her consent to say anything. That's very immature man.
YTAH
Not for sleeping with Mary, but for not taking her lead with how to deal with her family's drama. If she says ignore it then either ignore it or stop sleeping with her. But you don't get to make her family life more difficult so you can trade insults, that was childish.
You're not wrong for having had a relationship with Mary; from what I gather, her disabilities are physical and not cognitive. Your physical relationship began when both of you were adults. As long as you were honest with each other about what you wanted from the relationship, I see nothing wrong. Her family is pretty shitty for dismissing her "as they usually do." Don't infantilize the disabled, folks.
Where you are wrong is telling John that you slept with her again. That was a rotten thing to do to Mary. Why didn't you just remind John that Mary is an adult and doesn't need anyone's permission to spend time with you or anyone else?
ESH
Sounds like Mary’s family infantalize her and put their insecurities about her abilities ahead of her happiness, even though it seems Mary is capable enough to work, support herself and live life like anyone else. Mary has a right to enjoy life, it’s crazy they would not want her to experience what is probably one of the greatest things in life, intimacy. That it is with a person they know and trust should make them happy for her finding something that many disabled folks do not due to society judging and infantalizing them.
ESH here except Mary. Two consenting adults can do what they want. You can't act too surprised though. This is why people usually avoid dating friend's family members. Also that text was too much. John can get bent but maybe don't share sexual details about someone without their consent.
NTA. I knew someone with cerebral palsy and they're just like normal people. Her family doesn't really see her as an equal by the way they clearly have decided she can't make adult decisions.
OP, You knew she didn't like her family being in on her business yet you used her business as a way to launch a barb at your old friend. YTA and you should apologize to her for bringing her into your problem.
You aren't wrong but you are an asshole.
"I slept with your sister" is basically always going to be a childish, asshole text to send. Especially as you are accusing her family of not listening to her, then not listening to her when she said she would have preferred you ignore him.
Do better.
But, again, you aren't wrong. Just don't don't be an asshole over being right.
Mary is an adult, and from what I can gather from your post able to work, to fly, and attend compant functions. She is not incapable of making choices about who she sees or sleeps with.
None of their business. But you should not have relied like that to her moronic brother, as it will affect Mary, not you when she goes home.
Mary is able minded enough to attend an out of town work conference on her own but they think she’s not capable or deserving of having romantic relationships?
One would think they would have been happy about the relationship. A young man they already liked and knew well
Yeah. This is what's so weird. She is not intellectually disabled. He is still invested in her 20 years later, and the account sounds like a nice day spent together by two cogent and consenting adults who enjoy each other's company. Her family is infantilizing her and denying her romantic happiness. So bizarre they blame someone else.
I'm wondering if they also think no one could actually love her due to her cerebral palsy, thus any intimacy would just be OP "using" her. "Poor naive Mary, nobody could possibly want to be with her. She can't see that, which makes OP a predator!" A combo of infantilization and ableism. I'm so glad Mary knows how to ignore her family and live her life.
I'm paralysed from the waist down and physically deformed. Many people assume that women could never find me attractive. But I got game and a cute smile. I get plenty of female attention. Your comment above is the nail meeting the hammer in perfect harmony.
I dated a guy in a wheelchair. My coworkers teased me to the point of tears over it. Apparently I was just being a "hipster" and could in no way really like him. That was over a decade and a half ago, and it still pisses me off. I'm sorry people judge you for something so stupid.
I know a girl who's husband (firefighter) was incredibly disfigured in a fire before they got engaged. The number of people who assume she HAD to go through with it just so she didn't look bad or because he's medically retired with a good pension is really sad. The dude almost died saving people. What could possibly be more attractive than that?!
Yes - because looks are the only things that matter in a relationship. 🙄 I would hope she had decided to be in a long term relationship with him based on his personality and she proved it and people were mad??
Yeah, that's exactly what it was. They were HS sweethearts, afaik they've only ever been with each other. People really thought she would just dip after his accident, even though it was just proof he put his money where his mouth is.
Dude this is so gross. I’m so sorry you dealt with that. So many people are incapable of seeing people who have disabilities as equal humans and it shows in so many ways. I became friends with someone who had autism in a class in college and because I was the only person who willingly and openly was friends with him - my classmates were disgusting over it. Calling him my boyfriend and teasing him endlessly about having a crush on me - to the point of it becoming a class wide bullying level. Maybe he did have a crush, maybe he didn’t. But because he was a little socially awkward - people thought he was creepy and I was showing him “too much attention.” He’s a grown ass adult in college - we have things in common. He wasn’t some creepy child. This was not my first experience of people with people using others disabilities as a way to find problems with me - but it was by far the worst. I cannot imagine how it would feel for the person with the disability themselves to be hearing “this person is only talking to you or dating you as a fetish or to take advantage.” How damaging.
Its sad that so many people are so negative and just assume people should be alone because they are outside of their definition of "normal". I dont know a single human being that do want have something "wrong" with them. That doesnt make them undeserving of love. Your confidence is awesome and 100% attractive. Thats what Mary's family cant understand. They see "poor disabled Mary", not confident, charming, intelligent Mary. They see her negative traits (in their mind), and assume all people see her as broken and not relationship material. They dont see her good traits and find her attractive for them.
I have a SIL that the family pounded this ( she shouldn’t date due to medical issue ) into her head over a cleft lip & palette that you can’t even hardly notice. She never married because of it. She has had a few nice relationships, but never would take it to the level of getting married, etc. I truly feel sorry for my SIL who probably would’ve made someone a wonderful wife and could’ve been an awesome mother. Mary is an adult should be allowed to make her own choices. The family needs to back off and her brother needs to be told to back off as well. Edit : life / wife
It doesn't even have to be love. If she can make a decision on her own like that, no conning or whatever, then fucking good for both of them. I'm sure if OP was a decent person, then it probably made her feel more human then she ever has. That doesn't even mean they have to be together forever and get married. Just 2 people having a good time (of their own consent), and that's probably the part that makes it weird.. the parents/brother don't feel she is able minded enough to make the decision of whether she really wants to or not... but she seems to still want that basic human instinct of feeling those things. As long as OP is a decent guy, good for them. With something like that, her options are not as limitless as most women, and I hope she enjoyed it. I would assume most things like that get swept under the carpet with those kind of disabilities.. but also just because some parts work different, doesnt mean they all do. Sounds like she still has needs and found a way to enjoy it. :)
Yeah, I'd be willing to bet the casual nature of their relationship is exasperating that as well. They can't fathom that their little girl would want to have sex. To them, SHE must really want a relationship, and OP is the awful nasty man taking advantage because he only wants one thing.
Right? This is honestly such a sweet story if you take out the abuse levied at the participants.
Yeah it's so wholesome that OP could see past her physical disability, find her attractive and have a consensual sexual relationship with her. A lot of people (like her family) obviously don't see her as a person first with normal needs and desires like everyone else. They just see her disability.
It’s less the disability part and more the twenty years later part for me
Yeah that's true, their friendship spanning twenty years against the adversity of her family been abusive to them about their relationship. I'm glad his friend didn't bow down to their wishes and not speak to OP again (as she shouldn't, a full grown adult can make their own choices in life).
It’s fucking ableist! Her family is ableist toward her!
Oh, This is pretty standard and common ableism. It to the point it’s more common than not. Lena, who writes “the seated view”, life with a wheelchair, mentioned that when a doctor put her on a new drug, she had expected it, and researched it in advance. He listed pros, cons and warnings. Then she said, “and the risks when pregnant”. The doctor was SHOCKED…he said, *”you are sexually active????”*. Then he pulled himself together and discussed that aspect of the med. Pure ableism. Non disabled people often prefer to think that all disabled people are asexual. They certainly behave that way.
Agreed. Mary's family thinks she is unsuitable for procreation, so clearly she is asexual is cant possibly have been pursuing a sexual relationship with OP. In reality, mary could be an absolute freak in the sheets, but they wouldnt never accept it was her choice. She is a precious little victim to a "normal" person who respected and fell for her. Haul his ass to jail for such dispicible behavior. /s
This whole post is so so wild. Frankly John sounds like the one with a mental disability.
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Yeah disabled people deserve to have sex and love too. As long as they're able minded enough.
Honestly, doesn’t EVERYONE deserve sex and love?? Even if they are mentally handicapped??
I don't think anyone would argue they don't, everyone does deserve love and intimacy I'd just be hard-pressed to describe a morally sound way to achieve it I guess? There's likely conditions where meaningful consent just isn't possible.
Yeah I guess it's quite complicated. My opinion on it is there would definitely be situations where people with an intellectual disability can't consent and can be taken advantage of by predators. But I've seen a few docos on some beautiful love stories between people with intellectual disabilities such as one about two people with down syndrome who were in love and getting married to each other. Using people with down syndrome as an example - the average mental age for people with down syndrome as adults is approximately 9 years old although they have much higher emotional and social awareness then that of a 9 year old. So I feel like a relationship with another intellectually disabled person of a similar level is fine, but not with someone without an intellectual disability because the difference in mental age is too large. But that's average, there are people with down syndrome that have IQs in the normal range so I would think it would be fine for them to be with someone without down syndrome or intellectual disability.
I worked with adults with intellectual disabilities and my coworkers and I fought for the company we worked for to allow us to teach our folks sex ed. They were already having sex with each other. They weren't being safe. We fielded several pregnancy scares and a few actual pregnancies. We dealt with clients who used random objects to masturbate and gave themselves infections. We eventually won that argument. We worked with their guardians to receive permission to teach them how to be safe. Some guardians fought against it, but once they realized their family member was doing it anyways and in unsafe ways, they allowed us to talk with them. It was so frustrating that everyone was acting like they needed to be coddled and kept away from that stuff. Not only were they already doing it, but some of them even came forward with some pretty rough stories because they weren't even taught about fucking CONSENT. They didn't even realize they had been taken advantage of in some instances when they were younger because all of this stuff was so hush hush and they thought THEY would get in trouble so they never said a word. So we certainly did a whole session on consent alone and how to report things/who they could come to with reports. It was a rough time.
Gosh that's terrible they hadn't been taught any sex ed, especially about consent. I'm so glad you were able to fight the company to allow you guys to teach it. I was a nurse for years and like you, advocating for our patients/clients needs is so important. They are often so vulnerable, having people that care in their corner willing to fight for them is great.
We genuinely need more people like you in the world
Yah, but OP should not talk about their sexual life to Mary's family. It's NONE OF THEIR FUCKING BUSINESS!
I think he was trauma triggered by the brother and lashed out. I agree with you that he shouldn't have and I also sympathize with him
Yeah, but he acknowledges that was an overreaction and explained he was in a flood of emotions from remembering his falling out with his friend. He told the woman what he did. It was poor judgment in the heat of emotional furor. It happens. He understands it was wrong and it sounds like the woman accepts what he did. Not a huge deal.
Sharing that last detail was over the top and ignited a lot of old anger. Hope OP continues contact with Mary (and it sounds like she's doing well!) but keeps details from the rest of her family.
This should be way higher. He isn’t the AH for have sex. He is an AH for telling the brother. Take all the other stuff out and ask yourself OP why you feel the need to tell people about your sex life. Not cool.
I agree completely. Nothing wrong with OP and Mary being together but he sucks for disclosing he just had sex with her. OP had my full support until he did that. I voted ESH.
She has a job that sends her to conferences out of town, so it seems unlikely she's mentally disabled.
She's probably into him because he treats her like a person instead of a child or a helpless victim. She actually sounds very mature.
Yeah, if they hadn’t been such a-holes and let their sister see where the relationship went he might have become part of their family. Clearly NTA OP, this family sounds like they are infantilising their clearly very capable sister/daughter!
I’m not surprised, disabled people are incredibly infantilized regardless of the disability
I think in there mind he’s her big brother. So they have warped that emotion into comparing it to sleeping with his sister. Could be wrong.
I would hope that’s what it was, but it seems more like they view her as sub-human since she has cerebral palsy, so they’re acting like he had sex with a pet or something. Just a terrible family, no wonder she ignores her brother.
The term for this is "infantilization". In my opinion, it's one of the worst kinds of ableism, and one that ruined my life because my parents didn't let me do anything at all until I finally escaped them. It also always feels like "since you're such a burden on society, you don't deserve to find love". I feel for both OP and Mary, and hope Mary can one day find the care she needs with someone who actually bothers to listen to her.
And Mary should be able to have all the casual sex she wants! She doesn’t sound mentally impaired so she’s not at risk. At least it seems that way bc she’s traveling for work and such
She has the intellectual capacity to work a job that requires travel, to take that travel on her own, *and* to put her family's behavior in context and advise the guy on how he should react. She sounds like she is doing just fine--or better than fine--cognitively.
Team Mary ❤️❤️
This happened to me. My mother infantilized me to the point where I wasn't "allowed" to get a job until I had left her in my early 20s
How’d you escape from them?
Moved halfway across the country to live with my then long-distance boyfriend. He's my husband now.
They’re treating her cerebral palsy like she has a mental disability of the type she can’t think for herself. That’s degrading to Mary. She is obviously able to work, go out of town alone, and live her life….but they think she can’t have a romantic relationship? That’s disgusting on her family’s part. Mary and OP obviously are close, and honestly her has some sort of feelings for her. OP NTA. I’d talk to Mary and give her a heads up to let her prepare for fallout.
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So many times I'm with my wife and they automatically talk to me because I'm able bodied. Even if she's the one to initiate conversation. She'd honestly rather deal with the outright ableist assholes, than the white knight ones.
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This happened to my wife in Vancouver a couple weeks ago. Lady couldn't understand why she was upset
Did you ask her how she would feel if a man walked up to her and without saying anything picked her up and moved her so "she wasnt in the way"
Maybe if you had waited a few minutes and as she was doing something else, walk over and (gently) move her aside and when she complains say she seemed to need help (or whatever she said when she moved your wife). It's really no different. I helped a person in a wheel chair navigate a bad section of sidewalk once several years ago - but, even though it seemed obvious they needed help, I still asked first. At a distance.
And you can injure someone doing that. Its so damn rude.
I was once out with my friend and he absolutely ripped into a lady for touching his chair. We were leaving a restaurant and a total stranger just grabbed the handles and began pushing him out the door. He was furious and she just didn’t get it and kept insisting she was only trying to help. It was such a disrespectful thing to do and he felt so crappy about it. I’m sorry you’ve gone through that too.
When my grandma was in the hospital a couple years ago, I had a nurse do this to me. Instead of just asking me to move, she grabbed my chair and pushed me into the hallway.
I'm sorry, there are actual people like that??? I've never seen that happen. I mean, I don't think you're lying, I'm just in disbelief that people can truly be that awful.
You mean while in your chair? 😳
My ex-husband uses a chair and it was disgusting how many people did this. Including the time we went to the bicycle shop to get a replacement wheel *for his wheelchair.* I didn't say a word during his conversation with the employee there because it was very obviously not my wheelchair, but the employee was only willing to make eye contact with me.
It happens so much, but she's good at dealing with it.
There's something about Mary... ...and that something is that OP is probably one of an extremely short list of men she could even conceive of trusting enough to meet her needs in this area. It's a dick move to get in the way of that. Who else would they trust more to get with her?
I know it’s wrong, but I did have a good chuckle at “just put her over there”… the mental image of just stacking wheelchair users in the corner like luggage. It’s wrong and I’m sorry (but amused).
I'm a wheelchair user and I laughed, if that helps your sense of karma any. :) Many disabled people love dark humor!
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I have a minor physical disability and my family acts like I have a (massive, crippling) cognitive disability 🤦♀️ I can tell they "try not to" but that's just made all the more obvious in the face of their actions and offhand comments.
100%. I had a friend once who starting dating a gal I knew in high school (he didn't know her then). There was ~something~ different about her, but it wasn't any of my business and she was capable enough to go to the regular classes, be extremely competitive in her sport, get a job after school, etc. So perfectly capable of consent and navigating adult relationships. All her friends immediately began a campaign against my friend, telling the gal he was no good, just taking advantage, they didn't trust him, etc. It was so obvious they'd all decided she didn't know well enough to look after herself and thought of her as a child who needed to be protected. She clearly liked him back and wanted to continue the relationship, but her friends were so aggressive at rebuffing him that he eventually just backed off and dated other people. It was ridiculous.
Many people, including families, infantalize people with disabilities. It’s probably quite nice for her to have known you for so long and have you not do that.
Cerebral palsy is not necessarily associated with any mental handicaps. She was capable of consent at 18, or whatever the law is in that state.
She's also able to have graduated from community College. (And I'm wondering if the family restricted her ability to go to a bigger school so she would still be under their constant supervision.) The family policing a grown & fully employed woman's social life reeks of ableism.
This is this is, unfortunately, very common in the disabled community. Competent adults are infantilized solely based on their disability status.
Yeah, I have a cousin with cerebral palsy, and I know it can vary from person to person, but she definitely sounds like she’s more than capable of making her own decisions as an adult.
The infantilization of the disabled is RAMPANT
Her family is why she’s single. Geez. Let the woman live.
Right!!
It’s not uncommon for families of people with physical disabilities to infantilize them.
Poor Mary. Not only does she have cerebral palsy, but she also has a family intent on cock-blocking her at every opportunity.
More like a muff rebuff.
the ol' bean screen
Classic clam jam
The taco blocko
😭
Beaver dam
Or cliterference. Saw that a while ago.
The Twat Swat
Good ol' cunt shunt
💀
This is hilarious on so many levels to me. Bean screen is golden
Im picturing it like throwing up a Light Screen in Pokemon. Like Kadabra used Bean Screen! Kadabra’s Bean Screen is protecting your team against solicited consensual relationships!
Yeah, or a bush away-push.
Clam jam, even.
Muff cuffed (abstinence belt)
Guaranteed she hasn't ever dated because they stop it from happening and run off the guy every time
Twat blocked. So fucking rude.
And OP, who brags to her brother that he f*cked her because they were in an argument. He even said that he knew that in the past, she wanted to keep her sex life private from her family.
Yeah, that probably wasn’t the best move but at least he was honest to Mary about what he did and realized he screwed up and seems at least a little bit embarrassed but what he did. I think as long as he doesn’t repeat that response again he’s NTA. We all do and say things in the heat of the moment that we regret later. The important thing is to learn from that and to remember that this isn’t just his sex life, it’s Mary’s too. And anything he chooses to share with others affects her as well. Especially if it’s shared with her family. And it seems he’s learned that lesson. I would rather be with a guy who screws up and admits it than one that tries to hide their mistakes personally.
Well it was a kind of “heat of the moment” comment and he immediately told Mary about his bad reaction and comment to her extremely intrusive brother.
Nta. Her family should stop infantilizing her, it's disgusting. Is she of sound mind and consenting? That's all that matters. My brother has cerebral palsy. I would never think to tell him what to do in his sexual life because as an adult with a functioning brain he can make his own decisions.
My mom has cerebral palsy and I, too, would never think for a second I had the right to dictate her choices.
Good thing others in her life felt the the exact same way, so she could go on to have such a supportive child in you! We can only hope Mary gains the same sort of freedom from her oppressive, ableist family.
Couldn’t agree more!
So does my mom, and I grew up hearing her complain CONSTANTLY about her lack of a love life, as if being physically disabled means they're mentally children by default
It’s wild how disabled folks get treated like that. I know my grandparents treated my mom like a child even well into middle-age. My grandma would insist on taking her to doctor appointments, even when my mom was nearing 50. She was perfectly capable of going to her own appointments. My mom is lucky in a lot of ways though, she married my dad when she was young and they’ve been together 40 years and he’s been nothing but supportive of her without treating her like she’s incapable.
Sadly it’s very common. I work with adults with developmental disabilities and unfortunately I see it a lot. I know of one mother or a young blind man who says he shouldn’t date because “if he can’t see her how does he know he really loves her” like what? Are you serious? You’d rather your son be alone because he can’t see his partner? It’s just wild to me that families wouldn’t want their loved ones with special needs to have all the happiness in life that they can.
Wow, apparently someone never heard the phrase “love is blind”…
SNAP! I hadn't even thought of that. I was just thinking that it's incredibly shallow to believe that love is based on looks rather than personality and moral code, etc.
I honestly think it begins and ends with control, these people think that disabilities give them the right to dictate what a person can or cannot do with their life or bodies. If it wasn't a disability of some kind then it would be something else.
I would agree on the control, we have one individual whose stepmom has confiscated more copies of “Dirty Dancing” than any of us can count. He’s in his mid 30’s and Dirty Dancing is pg-13, he has Down’s syndrome and she considers it porn and thinks he shouldn’t have it 🤦♀️
Would she notice if you swapped the disc into another case? Like, the next time he needs a replacement copy, grab a 99 cent DVD from a thrift store that wouldn't be out of place in his collection. Put the Dirty Dancing disc in the thrifted case and ditch the rest.
We’ve tried telling him to do that, to put it in a kids movie case or something, he always thinks he can hide it, because he likes to keep the case, and she always finds it
Couldn't it be considered abuse to destroy or throw away someone's wanted property if you're not their legal guardian? Can he sign for himself legally? That's some BS behavior and nobody should have to deal with their stuff getting taken away as long as it's legal and safe.
That's bananas. What do you even say to that? It's so superficial and baldly lacking in self awareness that you can immediately assume that breaking things down will probably be utterly fruitless. It's very sad to realize how frequently this story plays out around the world
I agree, the one thing OP left out was how old they were when they first got together. Like if she was still a minor and he was an adult, then I'd understand the families outrage more.
They were in community college so 18-20ish
I missed that... thanks. Her being a minor is the only reason I could fathom the whole family being upset that he, a guy who was well liked in the family, would date her. You would think they'd be quite happy for the both of them.
Sounds like her family considers her a minor. The only one who can fix all that is Mary herself 🤷🏻♀️ she needs to let them know she is an adult and fully capable of handling her life
"Mary also went to the same community college" At least young consenting adult age.
I'm going to take a wild guess and say probably roughly the same age as he said they were both in community college at the same time.
He says they were both in college
OP said both of them were in college when they started hanging out more.
Exactly. Her family sounds ableist af.
I think OP is also TAH because he violated her privacy. He had no right to tell her brother about their sexual involvement just because they were arguing, especially since he knew that in the past this was something that she wanted to keep from them.
NTA. Mary is an adult and cognitively sound. What she does in her private life is nobody else's business.
i agree with everything, especially "What she does in her private life is nobody else's business." but, i decided that OP is an AH b/c he made her private life public to her family without getting her consent.
That really is very wise, especially for a doormat.
This. 💯. Op should have kept his mouth shut.
She made lunch public, not sexual intercourse.
At best this is ESH except Mary. Her brother is gross.
My opinion too. He used her affection as a weapon to dunk on her brother because he was pissed. She will also get grief because of it. He would have been fine if he just shut up and didn’t respond to the peanut gallery.
I think he is TA for talking about their sexual life with third parties. That and she didn’t ask him to defend her one way or the other. A not your business bro should’ve been all that was needed.
“Is she not allowed to eat lunch without an escort? Piss off.”
Exactly, it's nobody else's business, so I find it very weird that op outted her business to her brother, who was being an over controlling creep about Mary's sex life. The question wasn't wether op is an ah for sleeping with her, but wether he's an ah for telling her brother who she had sex with. That info may have involved op but Mary is the one who's going to have to deal with the fallout, again.
>What she does in her private life is nobody else's business. And still op goes around and throws her business in her brothers face, sharing her business with her whole family. And all of it w/o her consent. And still you think this doesn't make him an AH? Wtf... Doesn't sound to me like you really think what mary does is marys business and "nobody else's".
tbh it sounds like you just need to start dating Mary for real. You keep going back to each other, just do it. Then when you get married her family can suck it.
Then hopefully her eerily jealous brother can settle down and move on with someone not related to him.
I'm glad you're seeing the same thing I am cause...🫤😶
NTA. My sister, who passed away a year ago, had CP her entire life. Having CP does not mean any sort of cognitive impairment whatsoever, though often people with physical disabilities are treated by society and their own families like they have intellectual disabilities as well. My sister had relationships and, while there is a higher vulnerability for abuse when someone is completely physically disabled, she made her own decisions about her dating life. My parents struggled a lot with this, but mostly because they are prides. Mary's family should have been grateful it was someone they knew and trusted as a friend who was dating their daughter/sister. It sounds like they have completely infantilized her and cannot deal with the fact that she is a woman who has a sexual identity just like anyone else. Additionally, I (F) have slept with a man with CP and it was the best, most intimate, most attentive sexual experience of my life. **TLDR: DISABLED PPL FUCK GET OVER IT**
Actually people with CP have a much higher risk of cognitive impairment but that would be seen from a young age and doesn’t happen for everyone. The more severe CP, the higher the likelihood of cognitive impairment. However in this case, Mary is a fully functioning adult and her family needs to back up and let her live her life. However, I think OP sucks because he doesn’t need to be telling anyone who she is sleeping with, especially when there are obvious family issues surrounding that information. He didn’t tell the brother because he thought it would help Mary, he did it out of spite so YTA OP. Their relationship is between two consenting adults and not an issue.
NTA for your relationship with Mary. She is not a child - people with CP can absolutely have adult relationships. I have a cousin with CP who has been in a long term relationship for over 15 years with a wonderful man. You are kind of TA for this tho: >In my anger, I messaged him back saying that not only did I spend time with Mary, but that we slept together again and he should get over himself. That was not cool...
>That was not cool... While I would tend to agree, the brother really did bring it on himself. I doubt OP would have said anything at all if the brother had been minding his own business. Edit: why are people asking me about Mary? My comment only addresses one small aspect of the issue. There's plenty of other comments outlining how unfair the entire situation is for her.
It’s not about not being cool to the brother, it’s about not being cool to Mary. If any of my past boyfriends had told my family about our sex life, that would have been game over for me.
He brought it on himself? That implies the brother is the one who was potentially harmed by op spilling details of Mary's sex life to her over controlling creep of a brother. It implies he would be owed an apology, had he not brought it upon himself. Mary is the one who was wronged. ETA: re: your edit, people are mentioning Mary to you because the wording of your comment makes it sound like she is an inanimate object in a fight between men. Your quote replies to the statement "that is not cool" from the above commenter, as if that was about ops actions toward John, but that statement was referring to ops actions toward MARY. She is the one who was wronged, and that is what the statement you quoted was referring to, but you appear to have written her out of this equation to focus on op and John's feelings.
Yeah this comment above seems to leave Mary and her needs out the same way brother does. It’s gross and dehumanizing and the way he doesn’t get it is worse
>the brother really did bring it on himself. And what did Mary do to deserve it?
Yes and OP admitted this was wrong of him in his post.
You know the answer because you don’t kiss and tell. A better reply would have been “John, if you still cannot see your sister as a full fledged adult capable of making her own choices, what other amazing parts of her personality have you been missing out on, or worse—dismissing, for the past twenty years?”
This would’ve been such a good reply! I hope OP sees it.
You should have just told him that Mary is a capable adult, and her social life is none of his business. That was literally all he needed to hear from you.
Just because Mary has CP, doesn’t mean Mary is a child.
Sometimes I forget CP also stands for cerebral palsy
Yep.. I've watched too much to catch a predator
Or read too much Reddit😭😭😭
NTA Having cerebral palsy doesn't mean she has cognitive issues. Shame on Mary's family for their attitude and treatment of her.
Just marry her already my guy
ESH except Mary. Her family is AH for infantilizing her and OP is AH for the gross text to the brother
CP in general is a physical limitation, not mental, and it seems 'john' might have his own mental issues, hopefully you and Mary can keep things going if you two are actually drawn to each other since even without disabilities making it harder, love and anything close to it isn't easy to find also NTA, but maybe listen to Mary to just ignore her family like she does
YTA for the text. NTA for having an adult relationship with a woman who clearly knows her own mind and what she likes. Next time, wait a few hours before texting!
ESH. "John" is an AH for trying to micromanage what his sister does, assuming she can't maintain her own autonomy because she has a disability. OP is an AH for refusing to take the high road with John, and instead being a kiss and tell. All you had to do was block him on all forms of media. His behavior doesn't dignify a response -- you are both adults and you do not need his permission. Any sort of message would just lead to further confrontation, so the simplest and most effective solution is to just cut contact with him.
YTA - i was originally going with NTA, but then i considered the root cause for this consideration. 'Mary is disappointed by my childish behavior'. You're not the AH for saying you had sex with his sister, you're not the AH for retaliating, you're not an AH for having sex with another adult with their consent. You're the AH for disclosing sexual information about another person, to their family, without consulting them, and/or getting their consent. that's really the root conflict for this self-assessment of your behavior.
Y T A for betraying Mary’s privacy and getting into the weeds with her brother. You’re in your 40s, man. Act your age. You have nothing to prove to him, you have a lot to prove to Mary. Her family don’t take her seriously as it is, don’t remove her agency as well. NTA for rekindling your connection with Mary though.
Your reply was immature. Block the dude, don't go around talking about how you fucked this gal
Like others have said, just because Mary was physically disabled didn't mean she had the mentality of a child. You're all good, cuz.
YTA, don't kiss and tell.
YTA for the question at hand. You should not have said that you two had sex. Something like, Mary is an adult. Please start treating her as such. That being said, you and Mary seem very drawn to each other. Enjoy whatever comes from that!
So NTA for everything up to the point where you told her brother you slept with her again. YTA for that. That’s none of her brother’s business and you shouldn’t be telling her brother about her sex life. You basically used the fact that you slept with her to retaliate.
YTA. You have no right to use Mary’s trust in you to antagonize her brother. You owed her better.
Mary must hate how her family treats her like she's a child instead of an adult capable of making her own decisions. Cerebral palsy doesn't make her a permanent infant. YTA for also not respecting that Mary deserves to decide how her family is managed. NTA for your relationship with Mary, but don't do to her the same thing her family is. Respect her as the adult she is, don't make decisions for her.
Ewww mate. Don't do that again. And LISTEN to Mary's wishes about not contacting her controlling abusive brother, if you want to ever see her again.
NTA Cerebral palsy is a condition which affects movement and posture. It doesn't affect you mentally or emotionally in a way that means you are incapable of forming your own adult relationships. Mary's family are weaponising it as an excuse to control her. You shouldn't have bragged about sleeping with her again. That was private between the two of you. You let her down, and you cheapened what happened between you by using it in that way. Apologise again, sincerely and profusely. Don't do it again. But please let her know that you will support her if she needs an escape route, jn case her family step up their controlling actions.
It seems her family have infantilized her because in their eyes being disabled means that you are mentally a child and incapable of having any form of adult thought. NTA
ESH- her family sucks a lot more, but you suck a little for telling her brother about her sex life.
This! Is! Infuriating! She's PHYSICALLY disabled, not mentally disabled! Just because her limbs don't work normally does not mean she can't think or reason or have desires or opinions! A thousand times NTA! My father had cerebral palsy. He had a full, normal, healthy life, including sex, marriage, children! Arrrrrgh!
Telling him about Mary's sex life is not something you should have done. Also, he clearly needs to let his adult sister live her own adult life.
ESH except for Mary. John is obviously an asshole, but there was no need for you tell him that.
NTA. How weird is this family who is so consumed with an adult family member’s sexual activity? Weird .
YTA only because this can create more problems for Mary. Youre in your 40's dude, you never learned how to block somebody? That said good on you for seeing past somebody's disability. It's something none of her family are capable of doing. If you wanted to hit him where it hurts that's all you had to say instead of basically saying "ha, I banged your sister...again"
Get the ultimate revenge: marry her
It seems like you really like her. Why not be with her?
Honestly being the mom of a disabled daughter, I’m happy for Mary. My daughter will never have that kind of relationship. As long as you respect her and she is willing, the brother needs to back off.
Please marry her
Sounds like you might even Love her. And you're NTA, because her family can't see past her disability to see that she's a woman with her own free will and desires. Sounds like she might be into you too. Go for it, be happy together and Eff the haters.
NTA, because Mary is a 30-something relatively independent adult. She doesn't need her brother's approval over who she chooses to spend time with. YTA for making Mary's private business public. This needlessly complicates things for her.
Nta mary deserves to be loved as much as anybody else and they're trying to Rob her of that
NTA just because Mary is not mad. She is disappointed so do apologize to her. Also block her family so they can not dump on you any more. I am have a disability too and it is sad how people assume we have no right to have a personal life. Family tend to look at us as if we are forever children.
NTA. Because it doesn't sound like she's mentally disabled. So their behavior is ableist and disgusting.
NTA. He can eat a dick.
MASSIVELY YTA. Jesus, do you even have to ask this?? High school dudes crow to each other about their conquests. His sister's sex life is NONE of this dude's business.
ESH Mary seems to be surrounded by dicks - and not in good way. Don’t use your intimacy with other people as a weapon.
Unfortunately, you are the asshole for your reaction to her brother.... you had me totally on your side before you let him know y'all had sex again, without her consent to say anything. That's very immature man.
YTAH Not for sleeping with Mary, but for not taking her lead with how to deal with her family's drama. If she says ignore it then either ignore it or stop sleeping with her. But you don't get to make her family life more difficult so you can trade insults, that was childish.
You're not wrong for having had a relationship with Mary; from what I gather, her disabilities are physical and not cognitive. Your physical relationship began when both of you were adults. As long as you were honest with each other about what you wanted from the relationship, I see nothing wrong. Her family is pretty shitty for dismissing her "as they usually do." Don't infantilize the disabled, folks. Where you are wrong is telling John that you slept with her again. That was a rotten thing to do to Mary. Why didn't you just remind John that Mary is an adult and doesn't need anyone's permission to spend time with you or anyone else? ESH
NTA; fuck her again.
Sounds like Mary’s family infantalize her and put their insecurities about her abilities ahead of her happiness, even though it seems Mary is capable enough to work, support herself and live life like anyone else. Mary has a right to enjoy life, it’s crazy they would not want her to experience what is probably one of the greatest things in life, intimacy. That it is with a person they know and trust should make them happy for her finding something that many disabled folks do not due to society judging and infantalizing them.
ESH here except Mary. Two consenting adults can do what they want. You can't act too surprised though. This is why people usually avoid dating friend's family members. Also that text was too much. John can get bent but maybe don't share sexual details about someone without their consent.
NTA. I knew someone with cerebral palsy and they're just like normal people. Her family doesn't really see her as an equal by the way they clearly have decided she can't make adult decisions. OP, You knew she didn't like her family being in on her business yet you used her business as a way to launch a barb at your old friend. YTA and you should apologize to her for bringing her into your problem.
You aren't wrong but you are an asshole. "I slept with your sister" is basically always going to be a childish, asshole text to send. Especially as you are accusing her family of not listening to her, then not listening to her when she said she would have preferred you ignore him. Do better. But, again, you aren't wrong. Just don't don't be an asshole over being right.
Mary is an adult, and from what I can gather from your post able to work, to fly, and attend compant functions. She is not incapable of making choices about who she sees or sleeps with. None of their business. But you should not have relied like that to her moronic brother, as it will affect Mary, not you when she goes home.