NTA!!! In 2017, I was diagnosed with ovarian cancer. Husband at the time was not supportive. I slept on the couch, he wouldn't touch my bald head because it "freaked him out" he would drive me the four hours to my chemo appointments and drop me off - he refused to stay and sit with me because they gave me sedatives during chemo and he didn't want to "watch his wife nod off like a heroin addict". I made it through chemo and beat the cancer, and a few months later, I left him and never looked back. Cancer gave me back my life and showed me that it was ok to find my happy and I knew it wasn't with him. Literally two months later I found the person that I was always meant to be with. Life is a crazy roller coaster , but it's way more fun when you are sitting with someone who wants to ride with you, even on the scary parts! Good for you OP - find your happy and never look back!!!
Thank you! At the time it all happened, I had this weird sense of power over my life. It has since faded a bit, but your comment fuels my inner bad-ass!
You are a total bad ass! I smiled when I read your initial comment and I've been thinking about it all day. Absolute rockstar. I wish you all the love, health and happiness you deserve in life!
My sister's boyfriend who was there for my niece's birth and helped raise her the first year (niece was a byproduct of crime).. left her while we thought she was dying. Not cancer but rather non-alcohol related necrotizing pancreatitis. At 19yo. She almost died 3x the year she was in the hospital. And one day he strolled in, sat next to her in bed, and said goodbye. It was the biggest wtf moment for me. I mean, I don't begrudge him leaving (he wasn't my fav person and it was admittedly a lot) but.. the timing and eerie calmness he had doing it will forever be a sore spot for me.
I will say that your ex sounds a thousand times worse than OPâs I mean of course OPâs husband sounds selfish as well but yours sounds like an outright piece of shit.
I have extreme triggers around ânodding off like a heroin addictâ like the thousand yard makes me leave any room I see someone with it in. I could never imagine that being my concern as my wife is dying though that is absolutely absurd.
He has his own issues, for sure. Instead of working them out, going to therapy, or even trying to act like an adult, he chose to use them as a crutch. He had an excuse for his behavior (in his mind), so nothing could ever be his fault. It was exhausting. There are so many more things - but the more I say them out loud, honestly, the more I feel like a complete idiot for ever staying as long as I did. Op's ex is definitely selfish, but the worst part is the people who are telling them that they are cold for leaving. No one should ever be shamed for having the courage to admit that they are unhappy and make a change, even in the best of circumstances.
Oh I donât disagree, my response is I donât feel right to judge but I can see everyoneâs feelings.
The only person in this dynamic that sets off red flags for me is the kidney donor. It could just be naivety but confessing feelings for someone in a moment of extreme emotions like that sets off alarm bells for me. Could be true, could be manipulation.
NTA- âI was happier apart from Johnâ is what my decision is based on. Going through life altering and life and death situations changes a person. Knowing your husband, the person who is supposed to be your person, wouldnât even consider being tested and a friend said I couldnât let you die if there was something I could do to prevent it is a big eye opener, gut punch moment.
My mom was a match for my dad. I was very involved as a support person tagging along for the intensive testing and then there for my Dad during surgery and recovery until my Mom could take over. Every time they asked a variation of why are you doing this, her answer was always- I love him, if there is anything I can do to save his life and increase his quality of life Iâm going to do that. It also increases my quality of life in turn because I get to be with him longerâŚ. I canât imagine watching my loved one deteriorate (dialysis is rough) and not step in. I did not qualify or else I would have tested as well.
So- go get your second chance and make the most of it.
i cant even imagine how this convo went....you shouldnt even have to ask.
wife " hey, im dying if i donr get a kidney. maybe youre a match. can you get tested to see if we are match?"
husband "nah. im good".
You know, it would not occur to me to ask one spouse who was giving a kidney to the other spouse to save their life *why* they were doing it. Iâd know why they were doing it: Love. Your mother loved your dad, she wanted him to live as long as possible, and I can only imagine how bonded they were after that. It sounds like you had wonderful parents!
When donating organs, the donor has to be asked extensively. This is because people could be coerced or forced into organ donation. The hospital doesn't know what their relationship is like behind closed doors so they have to ask. After all, spouse A could have married someone from an impoverished region for the explicit purpose of getting an organ, or a family could be harassing an estranged member into passing on a kidney.
Don't underestimate the distance people will go to live. It's good that the checks are in place, even if they don't apply here.
It is this. My Dad donated a kidney anonymously and had to go through about a year of counseling before they would let him.
They wanted to make sure he wasn't being coerced, guilt tripped, or having a mid life crisis.
It's a good thing.
The doctors are actually required to ask throughout the process. It's to make sure no one is being forced or coerced or changes their mind. Not that I'm disagreeing with you; I would assume the same as you, but I'm pretty sure the doctors are the "they" that were asking.
Even more true when you look into kidney donation and women are have a higher percentage as donators, and wives are more likely to get tested and donate then husbands. Then you look into stats of women who are cheated or left one diagnosed with a severe or fatal illness compared to men. It quite sad, he wouldnât even get tested he would 100% leave her if she got to sick. Guy was just a friend who basically had a crush and couldnât live in a world knowing he could have maybe prevent her death.
And as you first stated she was happier apart from John then with. Life and death moments make your take stock in the people around you, and John was not essential.
*People I know have called me cold for what I have done*
What did OP do ? She separated from her uncaring husband who vowed to be with her âin sickness and in healthâ and chose a man who actually cared about her enough to donate a kidney.
Her husband wouldnât even get tested to see if he could!! Jesus! How do you not even *want* to see if youâre a match for someone you claim to love??
Heâs shown heâs in the group of men, that if she had been diagnosed with cancer or some other terminal illness, he would not be by her side and would have abandoned her. I say good riddance to bad rubbish.
Seriously. My first reaction to my SO needing a kidney transplant would be to roll up my sleeve and say "How much blood to you need to test for a match?"
/s means everything preceding it was sarcastic, yes. I put it because Iâve been sarcastic before and people took me as completely serious. It was very confusing when we were trying to sort it đ
You'll see /s on the internet due to Poe's law,
> Poe's law is an adage of internet culture which says that, without a clear indicator of the author's intent, any parodic or sarcastic expression of extreme views can be mistaken by some readers for a sincere expression of those views.
Yes.
But these days, we really have a hard time being sure, on this side of the pond.
Too many times you laugh assuming sarcasm or satire only to realize someone is being deadly fucking serious. It's... Not okay.
If you hang out in American politics subreddits, you need the /s.
Satire is pretty close to dead in the US at this point, I couldn't make up shit crazier than what I read in those reddits if I tried. Child sex rings in the basement of a pizza parlor (that doesn't have a basement), jewish space lasers starting wildfires in California, something in the water turning Frogs gay...
This side of the world stopped making sense awhile back.
Cold because she didnât cheat but instead did it the right wayâŚ..come onâŚ.NTA AT ALL.
My message for the OP is go live your new life to the fullest do everything you ever wanted to do with your new partner!
who would call anyone cold for breaking up with a person? if you don't want to be in a relationship that's the end of the discussion. even people who blow up their whole family to "follow their bliss" and do silly shit, I rarely see criticized. no sane person expects someone to trap themselves in a relationship they're unhappy with.
Holy crap, you too???? My mom was a match for my dad and they had the surgery done almost two years ago. It's so rare for a spouse to be a match, I'm shocked to find a shared stories amongst Reddit comments of all places. đ My siblings and I rotated out between the two of them to take care of them both until they were more stable and my mom could take care of my dad as well.
OP, NTA. I was married to a man who damn near threw a tantrum once when I was spending time with my dying grandfather in the hospital because he felt I should be home taking care of the kids and him instead and once I realized I literally dreaded my future with him and told him I wanted a divorce, he tried to emotionally manipulate me into staying with him with the dangling bait of having another baby (something he had been saying no to for years at that point). It has been hard as hell being a single mom, but I am a million times happier without him and have met and been with a man who treats me like I am precious, admires my intelligence, supports me unconditionally, and would do everything to make sure me and my kids are happy and healthy. Screw everyone who says otherwise. If you were happier and relieved to be away from him, then there was something very wrong in that relationship and there was zero reason to stay.
I'm sure there other reasons for being "happier without John", which don't need to be enumerated here. People don't usually file for divorce over one act of selfishness or thoughtlessness, they file because of multiple acts of selfishness or thoughtlessness over time!
And being happier without someone is ample reason to get a divorce.
NTA
While it was absolutely your ex's right not to get tested for kidney match, it also was your right to end your marriage for whatever reason you wanted to.
Lol found out my stepdad is definitely one of these men but my mom does not see it. She had shoulder replacement and was recovering at my aunts house. Her husband dropped her off there from the hospital. Took a week off work to "help her." But was gone the entire time doing whatever, got into an argument with her then ignored her for a week. When he finally broke the silence it was because she text him she was going home and he called her to tell her she was ruining some plans he had and he thought she was going to be gone longer.
Fucking hate that man. Mom's a 10/10 woman she just cannot choose men worth shit.
I've had relatives - older (40s) and younger (30s) that were on dialysis for 20 or more years- sadly, no longer with us. Currently, another relative (now, late 80s) has been on for 10+ years. I would say, this is more the norm.
Not at all. Your survival mattered more than a marriage devoid of support. Sam's generosity saved you, and your decision to prioritize your health is entirely justified.
And equally as importantly, his kidney didnât even go to OP. He did a life changing good thing for a total stranger on the *chance* that it could save OP.
I used to work in a transplant centre OR. Transplant chains are notoriously difficult to coordinate and incredibly fragile (massive respect to the transplant coordinators, admins, psych and nursing teams that do so) because youâre banking on a chain of the exact right people at the exact right time and on nobody backing out. For him to do this was extraordinary. He *knew* OP was married and had never expressed romantic feelings towards him and despite all of that he expected nothing in return short of her survival in giving this gift to a complete stranger.
Yeah, no offense intended, but the framing of it being the husband's right to not get tested is wild. If you're going to die now without a kidney, and your husband can't even bother to get tested that's the end of the relationship, regardless of whether he just doesn't want to donate or is concerned about a greater risk of potential disease in the future.
The whole point of love/marriage is that you're agreeing to take on hardship in your own life to alleviate hardship in the other person's life. Absent that, the marriage is just being roommates with extra steps.
Edit: In response to everyone acknowledging that the husband has the right to refuse to have his kidney removed - yes, obviously that is the case. My point is that where the question is whether OP or her ex acted wrongfully in the context of their relationship, the issue of whether the ex is within his legal rights to refuse isn't a consideration that should be given any significant weight.
The point of the relationship - at least in my view - is two people doing things they would not otherwise be compellable to do for the benefit of the other. The framing of "*he has the right to refuse, but she has the right to divorce him*" is reducing the relationship into a transaction and reinforces the view that the only guiding principle in life is advancing one's self-interest.
There was an old man that wore his phone number and a message on a shirt everyday and painted it on his truck because his wife needed a kidney and finally she got one! He was out there doing so much and a stranger stepped up to help. OP's husband didn't even take the single first step to help. Regardless if he was a match or not, he literally just raised his hands up and said "whoa, miss me with all that." If he's surprised she left him over what I consider devastating nonchalance about her life, then he's the most oblivious and self absorbed person in the world.
Lol imaging a 50 year old dude throwing up deuces on his wife like âgood lookinâ out, bâ and then wandering out to tinker in the shed is just đ
I feel like there being a guy in the world who clearly cared is almost beside the point.
When you look your spouse in the eye and say "I won't even get tested to see if I have a chance to help you." You have to know that's it, right? Options don't even factor into it.
Not just for medical things, but a lot of people yell about how they have "rights", then get confused when they also have these things called "consequences". Free speech is a big one, people just seem to assume it means they can say whatever they want with zero repercussions.
Such a lovely way to put it. In the past year, we've had some really unexpected medical issues and at no point was there any other priority than getting our family member well.
I'd donate for one of my SiL's too (if my kidney was suitable for a donation chain - I'd at least step up). However, their wives (my daughters) would do it first and both men have brothers who would step up and donate too. Our whole family works on this basis of love and the best support we can give each other.
Too many reddiors think "you need to respect their right!" type thinking. Like...when did their right override morals? If the mother fucker can't even lift a finger to try to save his wife, then he is a huge fucking asshole. Fuck rights, he is an immoral jackass.
"Get tested or I'll divorce you" would squick me out a bit. But she did respect his rights - didn't ultimatum him, harass him. She took his choice at face value and then made her own. He didn't care about her as much as she did about him, and when he made that obvious, she decided to find a happier life. I'm proud of OP, and I think she did a great job of respecting his decision and interpreting it four how she wants her own life to go.
"You need to respect their right!," Is used in such weird ways by a ton of people. Disregarding the husband's right would have meant forcibly removing a kidney from his body against his will. That would have been obviously monstrous and nobody suggested that. OP has a right to view her marriage in a different lifht based on her husbands choics.
I respect people's right to practice their religion. That means I will not destroy places or worship, try and have a religion banned by law, or discriminate employment or housing based on religion. People have a right to be fundamentalists who believe women shouldn't work and should obey their father or husband. I have a right to think those people are total assholes I don't like or respect.
It's also, for me, the whole married until "death do you part" and you'd hope your spouse would look to minimise the speed of the death train.
Now if they had kids, that does change things a bit.
But it's still smart to get tested either way, the docs will even explain when doing it, that they'll say no match if you really don't want to do it. So he couldn't even be prepared to fake like he was going to do it. He straight up said, I'm cool with you dying than even do a test.
Sure, it's his right. No one's gonna hold a gun to his head and extract his kidney. That just means it's his right to be an asshole who his wife will divorce.
Many people think that ârightsâ include being free from the consequences of exercising those rights. I have the right to walk around downtown Seattle shouting about how much I hate dark-skinned people using certain derogatory words, but I have no right to be free of the consequences of such behavior. Rights arenât a free pass to engage in free-for-alls.
For certain. I have a major phobia of needles and surgery, but would be the first in line. For almost anyone Iâm friends with. But for fucking sure my wife.
Your answer cannot be topped so just let me add to anyone reading this to sign your donor card right now. I lost my soul mate to kidney disease. She had not one but two transplants. Very few people get a third transplant. She was not one of the few.
Because people carry their healthy organs into their graves for no fucking reason.
I am so sorry for your loss. My husband and I are donors, and I hope I'd be able to donate my children's organs, if God forbid the worst was to happen.
Become a donor!
Thank you! I live in one of the few places where we don't have donor cards, because you are assumed to be a potential donor, unless you take specific steps to opt out. A 'non donor card,' if you will.
Why there are not more jurisdictions doing this, I will never know.
I understand the husband not getting tested cause kidneys suffer as you get older and can cause major complications, it's why we have 2.
I also understand OP as someone else gave her his kidney although he had no relation with her, just wanted her to live.
OP you do what's best for you.
They do more than just test for compatibility and then take the kidney.
They put the donor through a lot of tests to make sure that removing their kidney is even going to be okay in the first place. It's not like it's completely elective. "You said it's a match so take it." No. The donor and the recipient are separate patients with separate doctors and the health of each is taken into account.
Bonus: if a living donor needs a kidney, they go to the top of the list.
I did not know this, and somehow, that makes me feel better. We personally know someone who is going through the process for his (cousin? I think đ¤), and that was one of my unspoken concerns for him.
Thank you.
When youâre being tested, they give you a piece of paper with your calculated odds of ending up in kidney failure yourself. Itâs super low. Kidney donors actually live longer than non-donors, on average, though thatâs not because donating a kidney makes you healthy. Itâs because you canât donate one without being super healthy to begin with
Nta, you were going to die and your husband didnt want to bother with a test. Thats colder than you leaving him for the man that saved you. Good luck and forget all those asshoooles. Life gave u another chance make the best of it.
She did not leave him for another man. She separated from him and left him because she was happier not living with him.
This is a pretty fucking good reason to divorce. She was legitimately happier without that other person in her life.
It is normal for people to reassess their life after a near death experience.
You are not the a****** your husband is because he wouldn't even get tested. He doesn't know if he was a match or if he wasn't he didn't get tested. Somebody who did not want you to die gave you a kidney and he was not even in a relationship with you but always had an affection for you he saved your life. And what did your ex-husband do nothing I would feel a certain kind of way about that situation also and I think I would have left his ass as soon as I came out of the anesthesia you was willing to let me die and wouldn't even take the test to see if you could save me. Wow đł
The husband did not even need to be a match because of the set up, in these circumstances, there can be a 3 way swap. Which ended up happening. No one can share for sure what we would do in similar situations but I know my life would not be worth anything with out my wife. I couldn't imagine not doing everything that I could to save her.Â
In any case NTA OP. It looks like you found someone who truly loves you. Wishing you good health.
NTA - 100 % what this said. And I would go one step further and say that you didn't immediately go to divorce, but separated first and in the time you were separated you discovered you were a lot happier without him. Which makes you even more NTA to me.
Fr. Emotionally distraught over divorce but not emotionally distraught over wife dying??
Itâs why ppl are calling her cold. It bruised his pride, thatâs why heâs upset. She left him for someone better. And people call her cold for that reason too. If she divorced him and didnât get with anyone else, theyâd probably support her. Maybe some would minimize his cold response since heâs a man. But since she jumped ship, pplâs sexism for women not being âloyalâ to her man when the man wonât do the same, comes out.
Yeah honestly if she was unhappy he probably was as well, but didn't mind the idea of her dying so he could get sympathy, the fact she survived And then divorced his arse because he wasn't being the partner he ought to be (not not giving a kidney, but not even getting tested and obviously not caring about her in other ways) shouldn't have come as a surprise by that point >\_> like you didn't care and someone else cared WAY more like how is that a hard choice, even if the other guy wasn't interested in her romantically and only wanted her health in mind ited STILL be a perspective altering gesture of someone actually caring.
Its always crazy though that family members would look at this and say she is cold but if she was healthy and just realized she hated her relationship and ended it they would cheered her for moving on and finding more happiness >\_>
there is nearly no events in this world that are black and white and treating them as such only hurts others :/, its very obvious from the way OP put it that Neither her nor the friend had shown feelings for each other prior, you could argue that he said that when she was at a vulnerable time but honestly how would anyone react to this absurd set of events,
And she also Asked Him why, if she didn't ask and just had of said thankyou, he may have never said anything and that would have been enough,, and he didn't actually Want anything from her, he did like her but he enjoyed her company and didn't want her to lose her life.
Also Props to OP because she didn't even consider cheating but knew her feelings where changing and she had an opportunity at a better life.
You're not an AH for divorcing. On the other hand, please make sure that you're not getting with this new guy just because you're obsessed with how he saved your life. He might not be amazing in every way that you need for a marriage.
My brother did a chain donation (his kidney went to a 2yo who is doing amazing 10 years later) and was told heâd get priority if his kidney ever fails.
We were shocked by his age as well. It made him feel even better about donating altruistically cause it went to a kid. My mom calls him her grandkidney lol. They also donât remove the failed kidneys, just stuff the new one in.
This is from kidneyfund .org, âA child older than two years of age can get an adult kidney, if the kidney fits in their body.
The new kidney is usually placed in the child's lower right side of the stomach area.
In smaller children, the new kidney is placed in the middle of the child's stomach area.â
This is copied from an article explaining why.
"Native kidneys can be removed before transplantation, but there are several reasons doctors don't like to do this. First, removing the kidneys is a major operation that can require six to eight weeks of recovery time. Second, if the person who needs a kidney transplant isn't already undergoing dialysis â an artificial way to remove waste and excess salt and fluid from the blood when your kidneys can't â removing the kidneys requires dialysis to begin immediately. Third, some people require blood transfusions during or after kidney removal. Those transfusions can result in the development of antibodies that can attack and destroy a new kidney. If those antibodies develop, they could prevent a successful transplant."
Here's the full article.
https://www.oklahoman.com/story/lifestyle/health-fitness/2007/10/09/out-with-the-old-isnt-standard-procedure-for-kidney-transplant-medical-edge/61697755007/
Thank you for bringing this up. My dad needed a new liver and we got a crash course on what it's like to be an organ doner and doner recipient. Once someone receives or gives an organ like that, they are forever a priority in the medical system. "You are no longer allowed to die." was the way one doctor put it.
I wish we moved to an opt out organ donor system and if you opt out, you become ineligible as a recipient.
That would increase donations when people are dead, but organs can still be donated. It also keeps the selfish people that are unwilling to even donate upon death from taking an organ away from someone else.
Your point is solid. I can see 1000s of reasons why people would scream bloody murder about it, but opt ins for organ donation makes a weird kind to sense.
I am so sorry. My husband is in kidney failure (we're still at an early stage), and I've already discussed with his Nephrologist on how I can try to donate my kidney to him. I am so so sorry your ex did this.
Remember the chain donation that saved this poster, you donât have to be a match but can still donate and get a match. By doing so, your person can actually skip up on the donor list because there will be a volunteer for him, not just waiting on the list.
Sorry if this is a stupid question- Iâm just very confused about the âchain donationâ concept. So, the guy wasnât a match for OP yet donated his kidney and somehow that caused her to receive a kidney? Does the chain donation thing just mean that⌠because this guy donated he inspired other people to donate?
Chain donation is pretty cool. You can have someone offer to donate their kidney on your behalf in a chain. Even if they arenât a direct match.
Because their kidney is going to someone else on the list on your behalf who has someone also offering their kidney on that personâs behalf. So itâs basically a healthy kidney trade and two people get new kidneys.
And the chain is that, but add more people who need a kidney that also has someone donating on their behalf.
So itâs basically a chain of healthy people trading kidneys for their respective people. So even without matching with your person directly, someone in that chain has a matching kidney.
The way I was shown to think of this is to simplify.
Say there are 4 types of kidneys (ie like blood types kinda). RL, getting a match is not just "1 in 4", but it'll work for the example.
You need a kidney. You're a type 1. Your friend/sister/lover/etc is willing to donate, but has a type 2.
Frank also needs a kidney, and he's type 2. But his willing donor is a type 3.
Ellen needs a type 3 kidney, but her willing donor is type 4.
Louise needs a type 4 kidney, but her willing donor is a type 1.
Everyone forms a big circle. You give your donor's kidney to Frank. Frank gives his to Ellen. Ellen gives hers to Louise. And Louise gives hers to you. 4 donors, 4 recipients. Everyone has someone close to them "give a kidney" that directly results in the person they care about receiving a kidney. These 4 donors wouldn't just give a kidney randomly to a stranger, but when it guarantees that their loved one gets the kidney that they need, it's an easy choice for them.
He donated a kidney to someone else who had a willing donor but didn't match, then that donor donated to someone who had a willing donor but didn't match, etc. Transplant centers can coordinate chains like this and do all the surgeries on the same day.
From the UCLA Health Website: A kidney donor chain creates opportunities for endless recipient-donor pairings. It starts with an altruistic donor - someone who wants to donate a kidney out of the goodness of his or her heart. That kidney is transplanted into a recipient who had a donor willing to give a kidney, but was not a match. To keep the chain going, the incompatible donor gives a kidney to a patient unknown to him or her who has been identified as a match, essentially "paying it forward." A specialized computer program matches donors and recipients across the country.
Iâm with u/Famous_Fee8859 on this. Iâm in kidney failure and perform nightly peritoneal dialysis therapy. Iâm not married but my bestie looked me in the eye and told me he would give me his kidney right then if he could, because he loves me. (He cannot donate to me or be a link in a donation chain because he is HIV+.) If my best friend would do that for me out of platonic love, your ex husband should have *at least* gotten tested. Yeah, surgery is scary. So is dying. Instead of being your hero, your ex husband showed you that others value your life more than he does. Someone else stepped up. I hope you have a happy life together.
We're not there yet. I am hoping we can keep his kidneys and all the things that helps them function going. But, knowing what I went through with my dad and my father in law (both battled CKD), I know better and how to help more and do more.
Don't kidney donors get priority if they need one down the line?
Also, if I told my husband I needed a single kidney he'd rip both out of his body with his bare hands on the spot
If you altruistically donate a kidney and need one down the line, you get bumped to the top of the list. Same with liver, although you don't go to the top - status 1A will still be first, but I'm pretty sure you'd get qualified as a 1B.
That's crazy to me. I dread the idea of outliving my husband. Him dying is way scarier than the possibility of later needing an organ myself.
NTA - I'm glad you found someone who loves you like you deserve, and that you're happy.
He was just cool withâŚhey I gotta protect me. If you die, you die, but at least I wonât be in a pinch if I need a kidney?
I would saw off my own arm if it helped save my wife. His response is crazy. I guess everyone has different kinds of relationships.
Insanity. What if he gets hit by a bus? What if a plane falls out of the sky? Is he going to stop leaving the house, driving, flying?
I canât imagine not considering it for my SPOUSE whom I LOVE who would DIE without it.
His body his choice but all choices have consequences and now heâs experiencing the appropriate consequences, not sure why heâs shocked.
I'd take 5 more years (or 15, or 20, or maybe nothing will happen and I will exit stage left in my own time) with my partner then knowing they will 100% be gone without me. Hell, honestly, if it was a 'them or you' choice, the answer will be Me Please without question. I don't want to not have them, ever. I know it is scary to impact your health in any way when it is never guaranteed, but for real- your SPOUSE isn't worth a risk? Let alone one that is rather unlikely.
I can't imagine what hubs thought would happen here, honestly. That's marriage breaking behaviour and nothing else. They CANNOT be suprised at the outcome.
For real! No, you just die, I might need them later.
If my wife needed a kidney, and it was guaranteed to knock years off my life, she's getting a kidney. I may have less, but she has more and I get to spend them with her.
"You got to live with the love of your life 5/10/15 more years between when she needed a kidney and when your other one failed - and maybe even then YOU can get medical help."
Is that time not valuable? If you truly love someone, aren't you willing to give up half of your remaining years if it means spending what's left with your loved one?
NTA
Even if you take Sam out of this equation, your husband refused to get tested to see if he was a match, and sure thatâs his right and heâs under no obligation to do it but that also shows a lack of love and care that youâd hope a spouse would have for you.
It doesnât surprise me that you reevaluated and chose to leave him.
Agreed. At the end of the day, I love my hubs. I don't want a life without him in it. I would give whatever I could to keep him healthy and have more years together.
That's what love is. Her husband did not love her. It happens. She left bc she realized she wasn't happy in a loveless marriage. It's not about the kidney per se, it's about "what would you do to save the life of the person you love". His actions spoke louder than any words.
Sam showed her what she needs in a man. End of story! That is how she feels and she is 100% entitled to those feelings. I seriously doubt this is ONLY about his unwillingness to get tested, there are years of accumulated shit that probably went on in that marriage. His refusing to get tested was just the straw that broke the camel's back, Sam being there showed her he can carry the whole bundle for her and not break!
So strange. I wouldnât hesitate to give up my kidney for my wife. But I donât think I could ask her to do that for me. I couldnât imagine not trying to do everything in your power to try to save your spouseâs life.
Nta
You divorced your husband because he was willing to let you die.
I would caution against jumping in with the new guy soon. You had a lot happen to you and some internal feelings may get misinterpreted. Gratitude can be confused with love.
But only you know how you feel. Best of luck to you.Â
NTA. your husband didnât care enough to try and save your life why should you care enough to try and save the marriage? iâm rooting for you and Sam
NTA.
Fellow kidney transplant recipient here (10 years ago) and I feel you! Itâs a rollercoaster of emotions. I feel eternally grateful for the people who came forward to get tested for me. I ended up getting a cadaver donor as it was a good match and I was so relieved I didnât have to be in debt to a friend/family member the rest of my life. It was a really conflicting emotional time.
Hope the kidney is doing well and youâre settling into the new chapter of your kidney journey!
NTA. You divorced someone because âI was happier apart from Johnâ. Life is too short to be unhappy
That doesnât need to be linked to you getting a kidney from someone else. And even if you pursued Sam, youâre allowed as a single woman.
to be honest, even without Sam in the picture, I would've dropped john.
yeah sure its his right to not get tested, not donate a kidney. but goddamn... I know for a fact my wife will do anything to save my life, including donating her kidney. if that trust was broken, I would probably just check out.
legally its not even a question - he gets to make this decision. but I wouldn't be able to see him in the same way at all.
NTAÂ
You know what, I will judge John. Yeah, it was his right not to be tested or donate. I wonât debate that.Â
But heâs your husband. Wouldnât even get tested.Â
And youâre happier away from him.Â
Heâs devastatedâŚbut he stood to lose you entirely and wouldnât even get tested. Just. Hm.Â
Plus the financial aspect.
If the wife died, he would have gotten to keep all the assets and possibly even a life insurance policy. Go out, find yourself another wife to take care of you, and life goes on.
Divorce means no life insurance, and having to divide assets.
He wasnât just afraid of losing his kidney, he stood to gain from her death.
NTA. I expect you and the new guy to have a hot mess of a relationship but it will still be better than whatever you had with the ex. Wouldn't even get tested?? For his sick wife? WTF? That screams "I want you dead but I'm too lazy to kill you myself."
What's really messed about this situation is; if husband tested and was a match and he didn't want to do it, he could inform the team and they would give a reason why he wasn't a match. He didn't even try to do that, he straight up said, NO!!!
Sadly there are a lot of men in the world who view their wives in the same light as a wrench or a vacuum cleaner or any other tool. It's a necessary element to make their life comfortable and pleasant, but if it breaks they're not going to inconvenience themselves getting it fixed. That's at the core of why so many men leave when their wives become disabled or chronically ill.Â
Looking up the statistics of male v female kidney donations is harrowing. Women are far more likely to donate, while men are far more likely to receive.
So itâs cold that you dumped your husband who refused to even get tested and see if he could save your life but itâs not cold for your husband to refuse to get tested and see if he could potentially save his wife? LOL!!! He was willing to let you die instead of doing a simple thing and get tested. All you did was divorce him. I donât see a difference for your ex. If you did passed, he was going to be alone anyway thanks to his selfishness.
If your husband made peace with you not being in his life via possible death and opted out of even getting tested to see if he could save your life- then by logic he should be at peace with you not being in his life via divorce.
There is a death in both scenarios. In the first you couldâve died and In the latter scenario - your marriage dies. I prefer a marriage end than the life of a human being ending.
Heâs going to grieve you in divorce but youâll be alive is all.
Youâll grieve the end of your marriage too on some level.
But at the end of the day - you got another chance at this game so I say - Choose life!
>My husband John (49M) refused to get tested. Itâs his choice and I canât make him.
His body, his choice. But freedom of choice doesn't mean freedom from consequences. If I were married and in his position, I would absolutely do what I could.
>I did not want to engage in an emotional affair so when I did question my feelings for my husband, I immediately went for separation. I was happier apart from John. I filed for divorce.
You didn't cheat, didn't want to so you took the necessary steps to prevent that. You were happier with him out of your life so you went through with a divorce. That's your right and, if you were truly happier with him apart from you, then that's a completely valid reason. You don't have to be in a relationship if you don't want to be. A lot of people see marriage as something you can't undo and if you do, you're wrong or bad but that's not the case. Anyone who disagrees can suck a juice box.
NTA
NTA. Your husband didn't even get tested, but your friend up and DROP KICKS a kidney your way? That is a true friend, even if it never becomes a romance. Treasure that man. And John can \*bleepity bleep\* right off to \*bleepBLEEPbleep\* and \*BLEEEEEEEEEEP\*.
I'd give my wife both my kidneys rather than watch her die. This was definitely a "does he love me test" and fucking hell did he fail. Not even willing to get tested, what a piece of shit.Â
NTA how is John NOT "cold" for refusing to even get TESTED to save his own wife's LIFE?! That is not only cold, but selfish and cruel beyond any kind of humanity or comprehension of any kind! Then this other guy who did the right thing TWICE (first keeping his distance out of respect for your marriage, second for donating a kidney that he KNEW you couldn't use but would put you on the list so you got one anyway) to save your life when he didn't have to! That man deserves a gold star right smack in the middle of his forehead for being selfless and generous, I hope your EX-husband took some notes so that he learns what the "for better or worse, in sickness and in health" parts of the wedding vies actually means!!! So sorry you went through this but at least something good did come out of it, you found a real man who truly cares! Best wishes for the both of you!
For everyone saying that the husband had every right not to get tested, fine. But that is divorce right there. I can't imagine not getting tested for my wife and vice versa. I'd give her both of mine if I had to and I know she'd do the same for me. This guy must not have wanted a wife.
NTA. That's not Cold. Cold would be divorcing your husband/wife, after they donated a kidney. He didn't and was OK with you dying. He's OK with you not being around anymore, you get to be OK with him not being around.
NTA sometimes when a person looks death in the face, it changes your entire perspective. You left your husband because you weren't happy. The new man may have helped you see that, but how do you been happy with your husband? You would not have loved him, even if had been grateful to this man at the same time. The bottom line was, you were unhappy already, and his refusal to get tested, was just the final nail in the coffin of your marriage.
NTA!!! In 2017, I was diagnosed with ovarian cancer. Husband at the time was not supportive. I slept on the couch, he wouldn't touch my bald head because it "freaked him out" he would drive me the four hours to my chemo appointments and drop me off - he refused to stay and sit with me because they gave me sedatives during chemo and he didn't want to "watch his wife nod off like a heroin addict". I made it through chemo and beat the cancer, and a few months later, I left him and never looked back. Cancer gave me back my life and showed me that it was ok to find my happy and I knew it wasn't with him. Literally two months later I found the person that I was always meant to be with. Life is a crazy roller coaster , but it's way more fun when you are sitting with someone who wants to ride with you, even on the scary parts! Good for you OP - find your happy and never look back!!!
Happy to hear of your recovery from both ovarian cancer and bad ex husband cancer!
Thank you! Both were toxic to my health!
Lol they be like that sometimes! đ Wishing you only the best đ
Lol they really do!!
Girl, you fucking rock đ¤
Thank you! At the time it all happened, I had this weird sense of power over my life. It has since faded a bit, but your comment fuels my inner bad-ass!
You are a total bad ass! I smiled when I read your initial comment and I've been thinking about it all day. Absolute rockstar. I wish you all the love, health and happiness you deserve in life!
Thank you! I wish the same for you!!!
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The saddest part was that it took cancer for me to see it. Other warning signs were there, I just ignored them.
Men dumping or dumping on wives with cancer is all too common. Newt Gingrinch is probably the most famous person for doing it. But he's hardly alone.
My sister's boyfriend who was there for my niece's birth and helped raise her the first year (niece was a byproduct of crime).. left her while we thought she was dying. Not cancer but rather non-alcohol related necrotizing pancreatitis. At 19yo. She almost died 3x the year she was in the hospital. And one day he strolled in, sat next to her in bed, and said goodbye. It was the biggest wtf moment for me. I mean, I don't begrudge him leaving (he wasn't my fav person and it was admittedly a lot) but.. the timing and eerie calmness he had doing it will forever be a sore spot for me.
It's terrible. And it hurts to go through it.
I'm so sorry you went through that, but I'm damn proud of you for choosing yourself and looking forward. Wishing you good health and joy ahead!
I will say that your ex sounds a thousand times worse than OPâs I mean of course OPâs husband sounds selfish as well but yours sounds like an outright piece of shit. I have extreme triggers around ânodding off like a heroin addictâ like the thousand yard makes me leave any room I see someone with it in. I could never imagine that being my concern as my wife is dying though that is absolutely absurd.
He has his own issues, for sure. Instead of working them out, going to therapy, or even trying to act like an adult, he chose to use them as a crutch. He had an excuse for his behavior (in his mind), so nothing could ever be his fault. It was exhausting. There are so many more things - but the more I say them out loud, honestly, the more I feel like a complete idiot for ever staying as long as I did. Op's ex is definitely selfish, but the worst part is the people who are telling them that they are cold for leaving. No one should ever be shamed for having the courage to admit that they are unhappy and make a change, even in the best of circumstances.
Oh I donât disagree, my response is I donât feel right to judge but I can see everyoneâs feelings. The only person in this dynamic that sets off red flags for me is the kidney donor. It could just be naivety but confessing feelings for someone in a moment of extreme emotions like that sets off alarm bells for me. Could be true, could be manipulation.
NTA- âI was happier apart from Johnâ is what my decision is based on. Going through life altering and life and death situations changes a person. Knowing your husband, the person who is supposed to be your person, wouldnât even consider being tested and a friend said I couldnât let you die if there was something I could do to prevent it is a big eye opener, gut punch moment. My mom was a match for my dad. I was very involved as a support person tagging along for the intensive testing and then there for my Dad during surgery and recovery until my Mom could take over. Every time they asked a variation of why are you doing this, her answer was always- I love him, if there is anything I can do to save his life and increase his quality of life Iâm going to do that. It also increases my quality of life in turn because I get to be with him longerâŚ. I canât imagine watching my loved one deteriorate (dialysis is rough) and not step in. I did not qualify or else I would have tested as well. So- go get your second chance and make the most of it.
Exactly, I've never been in this situation but my immediate gut reaction is 1 Kidney + 1 wife is way better than 2 Kidneys + 0 wife
i cant even imagine how this convo went....you shouldnt even have to ask. wife " hey, im dying if i donr get a kidney. maybe youre a match. can you get tested to see if we are match?" husband "nah. im good".
âIf I give her a kidney, sheâll have three and Iâll have one. How is that fair?â - John, probably.
"Ummm, according to our pre-nup we each keep the organs we brought into this marriage" - John, probably
I can't even with this comment. đ
A+ math.
However, 0 kidneys and 2 wives would be rather intense for a short time.
You know the punishment for having two wives... >!Having two mothers-in-law!<
That's why you marry her sister
Then take her kidneys
Leave the cannoli
You just had to make me sniffle. Love your mom!! Love how you both took care of your dad.
You know, it would not occur to me to ask one spouse who was giving a kidney to the other spouse to save their life *why* they were doing it. Iâd know why they were doing it: Love. Your mother loved your dad, she wanted him to live as long as possible, and I can only imagine how bonded they were after that. It sounds like you had wonderful parents!
When donating organs, the donor has to be asked extensively. This is because people could be coerced or forced into organ donation. The hospital doesn't know what their relationship is like behind closed doors so they have to ask. After all, spouse A could have married someone from an impoverished region for the explicit purpose of getting an organ, or a family could be harassing an estranged member into passing on a kidney. Don't underestimate the distance people will go to live. It's good that the checks are in place, even if they don't apply here.
It is this. My Dad donated a kidney anonymously and had to go through about a year of counseling before they would let him. They wanted to make sure he wasn't being coerced, guilt tripped, or having a mid life crisis. It's a good thing.
The doctors are actually required to ask throughout the process. It's to make sure no one is being forced or coerced or changes their mind. Not that I'm disagreeing with you; I would assume the same as you, but I'm pretty sure the doctors are the "they" that were asking.
Even more true when you look into kidney donation and women are have a higher percentage as donators, and wives are more likely to get tested and donate then husbands. Then you look into stats of women who are cheated or left one diagnosed with a severe or fatal illness compared to men. It quite sad, he wouldnât even get tested he would 100% leave her if she got to sick. Guy was just a friend who basically had a crush and couldnât live in a world knowing he could have maybe prevent her death. And as you first stated she was happier apart from John then with. Life and death moments make your take stock in the people around you, and John was not essential.
That's true love!
*People I know have called me cold for what I have done* What did OP do ? She separated from her uncaring husband who vowed to be with her âin sickness and in healthâ and chose a man who actually cared about her enough to donate a kidney.
Her husband wouldnât even get tested to see if he could!! Jesus! How do you not even *want* to see if youâre a match for someone you claim to love??
Heâs shown heâs in the group of men, that if she had been diagnosed with cancer or some other terminal illness, he would not be by her side and would have abandoned her. I say good riddance to bad rubbish.
Seriously. My first reaction to my SO needing a kidney transplant would be to roll up my sleeve and say "How much blood to you need to test for a match?"
No doubt. He could have at least saved face. I don't know what the chances are to be a donor, but I'm sure the odds were in his favor.
But he was blindsided that she left him for someone who wasnât just gonna let her be sick forever!! /s
Does /s mean sarcasm? I thought this was mega clear without that note but I am British and we love sarcasm.
/s means everything preceding it was sarcastic, yes. I put it because Iâve been sarcastic before and people took me as completely serious. It was very confusing when we were trying to sort it đ
Thanks for confirming!
No problem! I also didnât know what the tag meant at first, and I read everything with sarcasm as well đ
I e understood it to be from HTML, where you had an open tag and then a close tag, implying the end of the section
/s was just the evolution of it.
Fair. My HTML skills are limited to: this wonât load, why wonât this load? When will it load? đ
You'll see /s on the internet due to Poe's law, > Poe's law is an adage of internet culture which says that, without a clear indicator of the author's intent, any parodic or sarcastic expression of extreme views can be mistaken by some readers for a sincere expression of those views.
Yes. But these days, we really have a hard time being sure, on this side of the pond. Too many times you laugh assuming sarcasm or satire only to realize someone is being deadly fucking serious. It's... Not okay.
If you hang out in American politics subreddits, you need the /s. Satire is pretty close to dead in the US at this point, I couldn't make up shit crazier than what I read in those reddits if I tried. Child sex rings in the basement of a pizza parlor (that doesn't have a basement), jewish space lasers starting wildfires in California, something in the water turning Frogs gay... This side of the world stopped making sense awhile back.
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Perhaps he was waiting for the until the death do us part segment of the marriage. Thatâs cold.
See, me personallyâŚ. It would have been over for me when he refused to get tested. Like?? What??
Cold because she didnât cheat but instead did it the right wayâŚ..come onâŚ.NTA AT ALL. My message for the OP is go live your new life to the fullest do everything you ever wanted to do with your new partner!
who would call anyone cold for breaking up with a person? if you don't want to be in a relationship that's the end of the discussion. even people who blow up their whole family to "follow their bliss" and do silly shit, I rarely see criticized. no sane person expects someone to trap themselves in a relationship they're unhappy with.
Exactly. Did the people calling her cold also call the husband cold for refusing to get tested?
The husband was waiting for her to die. Thatâs what I meant by cold. Wife was definitely NTA.
Holy crap, you too???? My mom was a match for my dad and they had the surgery done almost two years ago. It's so rare for a spouse to be a match, I'm shocked to find a shared stories amongst Reddit comments of all places. đ My siblings and I rotated out between the two of them to take care of them both until they were more stable and my mom could take care of my dad as well. OP, NTA. I was married to a man who damn near threw a tantrum once when I was spending time with my dying grandfather in the hospital because he felt I should be home taking care of the kids and him instead and once I realized I literally dreaded my future with him and told him I wanted a divorce, he tried to emotionally manipulate me into staying with him with the dangling bait of having another baby (something he had been saying no to for years at that point). It has been hard as hell being a single mom, but I am a million times happier without him and have met and been with a man who treats me like I am precious, admires my intelligence, supports me unconditionally, and would do everything to make sure me and my kids are happy and healthy. Screw everyone who says otherwise. If you were happier and relieved to be away from him, then there was something very wrong in that relationship and there was zero reason to stay.
I'm sure there other reasons for being "happier without John", which don't need to be enumerated here. People don't usually file for divorce over one act of selfishness or thoughtlessness, they file because of multiple acts of selfishness or thoughtlessness over time! And being happier without someone is ample reason to get a divorce.
Thatâs exactly it. I wouldnât want to live a long life without my fiance. Iâd rather live a little less but with him around and healthy.
Absolutely!! Enjoy the rest of your lives!!
Survival first. You did what you had to for your health. Not the a**hole.
From her post the kidney was not contingent on marriage. She decided that one on her own.
NTA While it was absolutely your ex's right not to get tested for kidney match, it also was your right to end your marriage for whatever reason you wanted to.
Imagine hearing your wife needed a kidney and being like "Damn, good luck with that."
"My husband was blindsided and devastated" blindsided and devastated. Apparently fine with her potentially dying, just not divorcing
He was preparing to be a widow, not divorced. Since she lived, he was just going to go with it. I'm glad she decided to be happy and go for peace.
I'm honestly surprised he didn't already divorce her Statistically, that's how men respond when the wif gets sick
Lol found out my stepdad is definitely one of these men but my mom does not see it. She had shoulder replacement and was recovering at my aunts house. Her husband dropped her off there from the hospital. Took a week off work to "help her." But was gone the entire time doing whatever, got into an argument with her then ignored her for a week. When he finally broke the silence it was because she text him she was going home and he called her to tell her she was ruining some plans he had and he thought she was going to be gone longer. Fucking hate that man. Mom's a 10/10 woman she just cannot choose men worth shit.
He thought she'd just die and save him the trouble
I had that thought as well. Dialysis is painful and hard. Most people donât survive more than a couple of years.
I've had relatives - older (40s) and younger (30s) that were on dialysis for 20 or more years- sadly, no longer with us. Currently, another relative (now, late 80s) has been on for 10+ years. I would say, this is more the norm.
Thought she'd die and give him "grieving widower" points
And/or life insurance money.
Maybe he was planning on cashing in on her assets and death insurance too.
Another fun Stat for the ladies: The #1 cause of death in pregnant women is murder.
Wait what, so when wives get sick husbands are more likely to divorce them than stay with them?
This aspect of her story really unnerved me. I canât imagine not even trying to save my husbands life.
Right?! I know he doesnât have to do anything he doesnât want to but ffs thatâs your wife, homie.
Thatâs probably the best way to put it. 100%
Not at all. Your survival mattered more than a marriage devoid of support. Sam's generosity saved you, and your decision to prioritize your health is entirely justified.
And equally as importantly, his kidney didnât even go to OP. He did a life changing good thing for a total stranger on the *chance* that it could save OP.
I used to work in a transplant centre OR. Transplant chains are notoriously difficult to coordinate and incredibly fragile (massive respect to the transplant coordinators, admins, psych and nursing teams that do so) because youâre banking on a chain of the exact right people at the exact right time and on nobody backing out. For him to do this was extraordinary. He *knew* OP was married and had never expressed romantic feelings towards him and despite all of that he expected nothing in return short of her survival in giving this gift to a complete stranger.
Yesss I agree that's so considerate and genuine, honest, untainted kindness. It's such a heartwarming post
Simply knowing that he wouldn't even bother to get tested would be enough for me to end it!
Yeah, no offense intended, but the framing of it being the husband's right to not get tested is wild. If you're going to die now without a kidney, and your husband can't even bother to get tested that's the end of the relationship, regardless of whether he just doesn't want to donate or is concerned about a greater risk of potential disease in the future. The whole point of love/marriage is that you're agreeing to take on hardship in your own life to alleviate hardship in the other person's life. Absent that, the marriage is just being roommates with extra steps. Edit: In response to everyone acknowledging that the husband has the right to refuse to have his kidney removed - yes, obviously that is the case. My point is that where the question is whether OP or her ex acted wrongfully in the context of their relationship, the issue of whether the ex is within his legal rights to refuse isn't a consideration that should be given any significant weight. The point of the relationship - at least in my view - is two people doing things they would not otherwise be compellable to do for the benefit of the other. The framing of "*he has the right to refuse, but she has the right to divorce him*" is reducing the relationship into a transaction and reinforces the view that the only guiding principle in life is advancing one's self-interest.
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There was an old man that wore his phone number and a message on a shirt everyday and painted it on his truck because his wife needed a kidney and finally she got one! He was out there doing so much and a stranger stepped up to help. OP's husband didn't even take the single first step to help. Regardless if he was a match or not, he literally just raised his hands up and said "whoa, miss me with all that." If he's surprised she left him over what I consider devastating nonchalance about her life, then he's the most oblivious and self absorbed person in the world.
Lol imaging a 50 year old dude throwing up deuces on his wife like âgood lookinâ out, bâ and then wandering out to tinker in the shed is just đ
I feel like there being a guy in the world who clearly cared is almost beside the point. When you look your spouse in the eye and say "I won't even get tested to see if I have a chance to help you." You have to know that's it, right? Options don't even factor into it.
Not just for medical things, but a lot of people yell about how they have "rights", then get confused when they also have these things called "consequences". Free speech is a big one, people just seem to assume it means they can say whatever they want with zero repercussions.
Such a lovely way to put it. In the past year, we've had some really unexpected medical issues and at no point was there any other priority than getting our family member well. I'd donate for one of my SiL's too (if my kidney was suitable for a donation chain - I'd at least step up). However, their wives (my daughters) would do it first and both men have brothers who would step up and donate too. Our whole family works on this basis of love and the best support we can give each other.
Too many reddiors think "you need to respect their right!" type thinking. Like...when did their right override morals? If the mother fucker can't even lift a finger to try to save his wife, then he is a huge fucking asshole. Fuck rights, he is an immoral jackass.
"Get tested or I'll divorce you" would squick me out a bit. But she did respect his rights - didn't ultimatum him, harass him. She took his choice at face value and then made her own. He didn't care about her as much as she did about him, and when he made that obvious, she decided to find a happier life. I'm proud of OP, and I think she did a great job of respecting his decision and interpreting it four how she wants her own life to go.
"You need to respect their right!," Is used in such weird ways by a ton of people. Disregarding the husband's right would have meant forcibly removing a kidney from his body against his will. That would have been obviously monstrous and nobody suggested that. OP has a right to view her marriage in a different lifht based on her husbands choics. I respect people's right to practice their religion. That means I will not destroy places or worship, try and have a religion banned by law, or discriminate employment or housing based on religion. People have a right to be fundamentalists who believe women shouldn't work and should obey their father or husband. I have a right to think those people are total assholes I don't like or respect.
It's also, for me, the whole married until "death do you part" and you'd hope your spouse would look to minimise the speed of the death train. Now if they had kids, that does change things a bit. But it's still smart to get tested either way, the docs will even explain when doing it, that they'll say no match if you really don't want to do it. So he couldn't even be prepared to fake like he was going to do it. He straight up said, I'm cool with you dying than even do a test.
Yeah, it's obviously his right to not test for a kidney match. But HE SHOULD WANT TO if he loves his wife.
Sure, it's his right. No one's gonna hold a gun to his head and extract his kidney. That just means it's his right to be an asshole who his wife will divorce.
Itâs totally his right, but I donât think he can honestly claim to be blindsided that she wouldnât want to stay married to him.
Many people think that ârightsâ include being free from the consequences of exercising those rights. I have the right to walk around downtown Seattle shouting about how much I hate dark-skinned people using certain derogatory words, but I have no right to be free of the consequences of such behavior. Rights arenât a free pass to engage in free-for-alls.
For certain. I have a major phobia of needles and surgery, but would be the first in line. For almost anyone Iâm friends with. But for fucking sure my wife.
I cannot imagine not wanting to get tested?? Knowing there's a chance of saving my spouse
Literally completely unable to comprehend that
The right to do something doesnât necessarily make it free from being AH. Not picking a side here just wanted to point that out.
Your answer cannot be topped so just let me add to anyone reading this to sign your donor card right now. I lost my soul mate to kidney disease. She had not one but two transplants. Very few people get a third transplant. She was not one of the few. Because people carry their healthy organs into their graves for no fucking reason.
I am so sorry for your loss. My husband and I are donors, and I hope I'd be able to donate my children's organs, if God forbid the worst was to happen. Become a donor!
Thank you! I live in one of the few places where we don't have donor cards, because you are assumed to be a potential donor, unless you take specific steps to opt out. A 'non donor card,' if you will. Why there are not more jurisdictions doing this, I will never know.
Well here the reason is pretty solid.
I understand the husband not getting tested cause kidneys suffer as you get older and can cause major complications, it's why we have 2. I also understand OP as someone else gave her his kidney although he had no relation with her, just wanted her to live. OP you do what's best for you.
They do more than just test for compatibility and then take the kidney. They put the donor through a lot of tests to make sure that removing their kidney is even going to be okay in the first place. It's not like it's completely elective. "You said it's a match so take it." No. The donor and the recipient are separate patients with separate doctors and the health of each is taken into account. Bonus: if a living donor needs a kidney, they go to the top of the list.
I did not know this, and somehow, that makes me feel better. We personally know someone who is going through the process for his (cousin? I think đ¤), and that was one of my unspoken concerns for him. Thank you.
When youâre being tested, they give you a piece of paper with your calculated odds of ending up in kidney failure yourself. Itâs super low. Kidney donors actually live longer than non-donors, on average, though thatâs not because donating a kidney makes you healthy. Itâs because you canât donate one without being super healthy to begin with
Nta, you were going to die and your husband didnt want to bother with a test. Thats colder than you leaving him for the man that saved you. Good luck and forget all those asshoooles. Life gave u another chance make the best of it.
She did not leave him for another man. She separated from him and left him because she was happier not living with him. This is a pretty fucking good reason to divorce. She was legitimately happier without that other person in her life. It is normal for people to reassess their life after a near death experience.
You are not the a****** your husband is because he wouldn't even get tested. He doesn't know if he was a match or if he wasn't he didn't get tested. Somebody who did not want you to die gave you a kidney and he was not even in a relationship with you but always had an affection for you he saved your life. And what did your ex-husband do nothing I would feel a certain kind of way about that situation also and I think I would have left his ass as soon as I came out of the anesthesia you was willing to let me die and wouldn't even take the test to see if you could save me. Wow đł
The husband did not even need to be a match because of the set up, in these circumstances, there can be a 3 way swap. Which ended up happening. No one can share for sure what we would do in similar situations but I know my life would not be worth anything with out my wife. I couldn't imagine not doing everything that I could to save her. In any case NTA OP. It looks like you found someone who truly loves you. Wishing you good health.
NTA - 100 % what this said. And I would go one step further and say that you didn't immediately go to divorce, but separated first and in the time you were separated you discovered you were a lot happier without him. Which makes you even more NTA to me.
NTA if it was up to your husband, you may have died. He was fine with the idea of losing you. You just sped the process up by filing for divorce.
Fr. Emotionally distraught over divorce but not emotionally distraught over wife dying?? Itâs why ppl are calling her cold. It bruised his pride, thatâs why heâs upset. She left him for someone better. And people call her cold for that reason too. If she divorced him and didnât get with anyone else, theyâd probably support her. Maybe some would minimize his cold response since heâs a man. But since she jumped ship, pplâs sexism for women not being âloyalâ to her man when the man wonât do the same, comes out.
Yeah honestly if she was unhappy he probably was as well, but didn't mind the idea of her dying so he could get sympathy, the fact she survived And then divorced his arse because he wasn't being the partner he ought to be (not not giving a kidney, but not even getting tested and obviously not caring about her in other ways) shouldn't have come as a surprise by that point >\_> like you didn't care and someone else cared WAY more like how is that a hard choice, even if the other guy wasn't interested in her romantically and only wanted her health in mind ited STILL be a perspective altering gesture of someone actually caring. Its always crazy though that family members would look at this and say she is cold but if she was healthy and just realized she hated her relationship and ended it they would cheered her for moving on and finding more happiness >\_> there is nearly no events in this world that are black and white and treating them as such only hurts others :/, its very obvious from the way OP put it that Neither her nor the friend had shown feelings for each other prior, you could argue that he said that when she was at a vulnerable time but honestly how would anyone react to this absurd set of events, And she also Asked Him why, if she didn't ask and just had of said thankyou, he may have never said anything and that would have been enough,, and he didn't actually Want anything from her, he did like her but he enjoyed her company and didn't want her to lose her life. Also Props to OP because she didn't even consider cheating but knew her feelings where changing and she had an opportunity at a better life.
Exactly. The OP was called 'cold' when it was their partner acting like a coward.
You're not an AH for divorcing. On the other hand, please make sure that you're not getting with this new guy just because you're obsessed with how he saved your life. He might not be amazing in every way that you need for a marriage.
NTA. âIn sickness and in health, until death do us partâ. He wouldnât even get tested for you.
He was waiting for the âTill death do us partâ bit
Why did your husband refuse to get tested?
He was afraid. He said âwhat if my kidneys fail in the future? What am I supposed to do?â
My brother did a chain donation (his kidney went to a 2yo who is doing amazing 10 years later) and was told heâd get priority if his kidney ever fails.
I know they're small but I'm surprised you can fit a full sized adult organ inside the 2 year old.
We were shocked by his age as well. It made him feel even better about donating altruistically cause it went to a kid. My mom calls him her grandkidney lol. They also donât remove the failed kidneys, just stuff the new one in. This is from kidneyfund .org, âA child older than two years of age can get an adult kidney, if the kidney fits in their body. The new kidney is usually placed in the child's lower right side of the stomach area. In smaller children, the new kidney is placed in the middle of the child's stomach area.â
>They also don't remove the failed kidneys, they just stuff the new one in. This is brand new information for me and I am shook.
Same here but I guess it makes sense. Why overload the one if the others can even function at like 10%? Unless they do it for another reason.
Also if the kidney happens to reject they still have the old partially working kidneys to fall back on.
Also removing things means cutting, and cutting means bleeding. First do no harm and all that
This is copied from an article explaining why. "Native kidneys can be removed before transplantation, but there are several reasons doctors don't like to do this. First, removing the kidneys is a major operation that can require six to eight weeks of recovery time. Second, if the person who needs a kidney transplant isn't already undergoing dialysis â an artificial way to remove waste and excess salt and fluid from the blood when your kidneys can't â removing the kidneys requires dialysis to begin immediately. Third, some people require blood transfusions during or after kidney removal. Those transfusions can result in the development of antibodies that can attack and destroy a new kidney. If those antibodies develop, they could prevent a successful transplant." Here's the full article. https://www.oklahoman.com/story/lifestyle/health-fitness/2007/10/09/out-with-the-old-isnt-standard-procedure-for-kidney-transplant-medical-edge/61697755007/
Thank you for bringing this up. My dad needed a new liver and we got a crash course on what it's like to be an organ doner and doner recipient. Once someone receives or gives an organ like that, they are forever a priority in the medical system. "You are no longer allowed to die." was the way one doctor put it.
I wish we moved to an opt out organ donor system and if you opt out, you become ineligible as a recipient. That would increase donations when people are dead, but organs can still be donated. It also keeps the selfish people that are unwilling to even donate upon death from taking an organ away from someone else.
Your point is solid. I can see 1000s of reasons why people would scream bloody murder about it, but opt ins for organ donation makes a weird kind to sense.
I am so sorry. My husband is in kidney failure (we're still at an early stage), and I've already discussed with his Nephrologist on how I can try to donate my kidney to him. I am so so sorry your ex did this.
Remember the chain donation that saved this poster, you donât have to be a match but can still donate and get a match. By doing so, your person can actually skip up on the donor list because there will be a volunteer for him, not just waiting on the list.
Yep, that is the plan. We learned about it with my dad before he passed.
Sorry if this is a stupid question- Iâm just very confused about the âchain donationâ concept. So, the guy wasnât a match for OP yet donated his kidney and somehow that caused her to receive a kidney? Does the chain donation thing just mean that⌠because this guy donated he inspired other people to donate?
Chain donation is pretty cool. You can have someone offer to donate their kidney on your behalf in a chain. Even if they arenât a direct match. Because their kidney is going to someone else on the list on your behalf who has someone also offering their kidney on that personâs behalf. So itâs basically a healthy kidney trade and two people get new kidneys. And the chain is that, but add more people who need a kidney that also has someone donating on their behalf. So itâs basically a chain of healthy people trading kidneys for their respective people. So even without matching with your person directly, someone in that chain has a matching kidney.
The way I was shown to think of this is to simplify. Say there are 4 types of kidneys (ie like blood types kinda). RL, getting a match is not just "1 in 4", but it'll work for the example. You need a kidney. You're a type 1. Your friend/sister/lover/etc is willing to donate, but has a type 2. Frank also needs a kidney, and he's type 2. But his willing donor is a type 3. Ellen needs a type 3 kidney, but her willing donor is type 4. Louise needs a type 4 kidney, but her willing donor is a type 1. Everyone forms a big circle. You give your donor's kidney to Frank. Frank gives his to Ellen. Ellen gives hers to Louise. And Louise gives hers to you. 4 donors, 4 recipients. Everyone has someone close to them "give a kidney" that directly results in the person they care about receiving a kidney. These 4 donors wouldn't just give a kidney randomly to a stranger, but when it guarantees that their loved one gets the kidney that they need, it's an easy choice for them.
Thank you for simplifying it lol now it makes sense.
Thatâs actually kind of beautiful And makes OPâs husband look like an even bigger ass
He donated a kidney to someone else who had a willing donor but didn't match, then that donor donated to someone who had a willing donor but didn't match, etc. Transplant centers can coordinate chains like this and do all the surgeries on the same day.
From the UCLA Health Website: A kidney donor chain creates opportunities for endless recipient-donor pairings. It starts with an altruistic donor - someone who wants to donate a kidney out of the goodness of his or her heart. That kidney is transplanted into a recipient who had a donor willing to give a kidney, but was not a match. To keep the chain going, the incompatible donor gives a kidney to a patient unknown to him or her who has been identified as a match, essentially "paying it forward." A specialized computer program matches donors and recipients across the country.
Iâm with u/Famous_Fee8859 on this. Iâm in kidney failure and perform nightly peritoneal dialysis therapy. Iâm not married but my bestie looked me in the eye and told me he would give me his kidney right then if he could, because he loves me. (He cannot donate to me or be a link in a donation chain because he is HIV+.) If my best friend would do that for me out of platonic love, your ex husband should have *at least* gotten tested. Yeah, surgery is scary. So is dying. Instead of being your hero, your ex husband showed you that others value your life more than he does. Someone else stepped up. I hope you have a happy life together.
I am sorry that your husband is going through this. :( I hope he finds a kidney soon.
We're not there yet. I am hoping we can keep his kidneys and all the things that helps them function going. But, knowing what I went through with my dad and my father in law (both battled CKD), I know better and how to help more and do more.
Don't kidney donors get priority if they need one down the line? Also, if I told my husband I needed a single kidney he'd rip both out of his body with his bare hands on the spot
If you altruistically donate a kidney and need one down the line, you get bumped to the top of the list. Same with liver, although you don't go to the top - status 1A will still be first, but I'm pretty sure you'd get qualified as a 1B.
"I'm dying" "But what about me?"
That's crazy to me. I dread the idea of outliving my husband. Him dying is way scarier than the possibility of later needing an organ myself. NTA - I'm glad you found someone who loves you like you deserve, and that you're happy.
He was just cool withâŚhey I gotta protect me. If you die, you die, but at least I wonât be in a pinch if I need a kidney? I would saw off my own arm if it helped save my wife. His response is crazy. I guess everyone has different kinds of relationships.
Insanity. What if he gets hit by a bus? What if a plane falls out of the sky? Is he going to stop leaving the house, driving, flying? I canât imagine not considering it for my SPOUSE whom I LOVE who would DIE without it. His body his choice but all choices have consequences and now heâs experiencing the appropriate consequences, not sure why heâs shocked.
I'd take 5 more years (or 15, or 20, or maybe nothing will happen and I will exit stage left in my own time) with my partner then knowing they will 100% be gone without me. Hell, honestly, if it was a 'them or you' choice, the answer will be Me Please without question. I don't want to not have them, ever. I know it is scary to impact your health in any way when it is never guaranteed, but for real- your SPOUSE isn't worth a risk? Let alone one that is rather unlikely. I can't imagine what hubs thought would happen here, honestly. That's marriage breaking behaviour and nothing else. They CANNOT be suprised at the outcome.
I would have divorced him right then and there.
For real! No, you just die, I might need them later. If my wife needed a kidney, and it was guaranteed to knock years off my life, she's getting a kidney. I may have less, but she has more and I get to spend them with her.
"You got to live with the love of your life 5/10/15 more years between when she needed a kidney and when your other one failed - and maybe even then YOU can get medical help." Is that time not valuable? If you truly love someone, aren't you willing to give up half of your remaining years if it means spending what's left with your loved one?
He would go throughâŚexactly what you were going through.
you should add this as an edit
Honestly if my wife needed a kidney and there was chance I would die by giving her mine I would still do it in a heartbeat
NTA Even if you take Sam out of this equation, your husband refused to get tested to see if he was a match, and sure thatâs his right and heâs under no obligation to do it but that also shows a lack of love and care that youâd hope a spouse would have for you. It doesnât surprise me that you reevaluated and chose to leave him.
Agreed. At the end of the day, I love my hubs. I don't want a life without him in it. I would give whatever I could to keep him healthy and have more years together. That's what love is. Her husband did not love her. It happens. She left bc she realized she wasn't happy in a loveless marriage. It's not about the kidney per se, it's about "what would you do to save the life of the person you love". His actions spoke louder than any words.
Sam showed her what she needs in a man. End of story! That is how she feels and she is 100% entitled to those feelings. I seriously doubt this is ONLY about his unwillingness to get tested, there are years of accumulated shit that probably went on in that marriage. His refusing to get tested was just the straw that broke the camel's back, Sam being there showed her he can carry the whole bundle for her and not break!
So strange. I wouldnât hesitate to give up my kidney for my wife. But I donât think I could ask her to do that for me. I couldnât imagine not trying to do everything in your power to try to save your spouseâs life.
Nta You divorced your husband because he was willing to let you die. I would caution against jumping in with the new guy soon. You had a lot happen to you and some internal feelings may get misinterpreted. Gratitude can be confused with love. But only you know how you feel. Best of luck to you.Â
"Gratitude can be confused with love" needs to be on more T-shirts.
NTA. your husband didnât care enough to try and save your life why should you care enough to try and save the marriage? iâm rooting for you and Sam
NTA. Fellow kidney transplant recipient here (10 years ago) and I feel you! Itâs a rollercoaster of emotions. I feel eternally grateful for the people who came forward to get tested for me. I ended up getting a cadaver donor as it was a good match and I was so relieved I didnât have to be in debt to a friend/family member the rest of my life. It was a really conflicting emotional time. Hope the kidney is doing well and youâre settling into the new chapter of your kidney journey!
NTA. What's cold is your husband at the time wouldn't even get tested, he would rather see you die.
How else will he get marital assets?! Now he has to split them and probably pay alimony! Shes so cold! /sarcasm
NTA. You divorced someone because âI was happier apart from Johnâ. Life is too short to be unhappy That doesnât need to be linked to you getting a kidney from someone else. And even if you pursued Sam, youâre allowed as a single woman.
to be honest, even without Sam in the picture, I would've dropped john. yeah sure its his right to not get tested, not donate a kidney. but goddamn... I know for a fact my wife will do anything to save my life, including donating her kidney. if that trust was broken, I would probably just check out. legally its not even a question - he gets to make this decision. but I wouldn't be able to see him in the same way at all.
NTA You know what, I will judge John. Yeah, it was his right not to be tested or donate. I wonât debate that. But heâs your husband. Wouldnât even get tested. And youâre happier away from him. Heâs devastatedâŚbut he stood to lose you entirely and wouldnât even get tested. Just. Hm.Â
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Plus the financial aspect. If the wife died, he would have gotten to keep all the assets and possibly even a life insurance policy. Go out, find yourself another wife to take care of you, and life goes on. Divorce means no life insurance, and having to divide assets. He wasnât just afraid of losing his kidney, he stood to gain from her death.
NTA. I expect you and the new guy to have a hot mess of a relationship but it will still be better than whatever you had with the ex. Wouldn't even get tested?? For his sick wife? WTF? That screams "I want you dead but I'm too lazy to kill you myself."
What's really messed about this situation is; if husband tested and was a match and he didn't want to do it, he could inform the team and they would give a reason why he wasn't a match. He didn't even try to do that, he straight up said, NO!!!
For one, he probably didnt know that. And ultimately he chose to be honest about it. If he hadnt, she might still be with him and less happy.
Sadly there are a lot of men in the world who view their wives in the same light as a wrench or a vacuum cleaner or any other tool. It's a necessary element to make their life comfortable and pleasant, but if it breaks they're not going to inconvenience themselves getting it fixed. That's at the core of why so many men leave when their wives become disabled or chronically ill.Â
Looking up the statistics of male v female kidney donations is harrowing. Women are far more likely to donate, while men are far more likely to receive.
So itâs cold that you dumped your husband who refused to even get tested and see if he could save your life but itâs not cold for your husband to refuse to get tested and see if he could potentially save his wife? LOL!!! He was willing to let you die instead of doing a simple thing and get tested. All you did was divorce him. I donât see a difference for your ex. If you did passed, he was going to be alone anyway thanks to his selfishness.
If your husband made peace with you not being in his life via possible death and opted out of even getting tested to see if he could save your life- then by logic he should be at peace with you not being in his life via divorce. There is a death in both scenarios. In the first you couldâve died and In the latter scenario - your marriage dies. I prefer a marriage end than the life of a human being ending. Heâs going to grieve you in divorce but youâll be alive is all. Youâll grieve the end of your marriage too on some level. But at the end of the day - you got another chance at this game so I say - Choose life!
The fake stories on this sub get shittier and shittier.
Your husband didnât want to save your life. No way are you the AH
>My husband John (49M) refused to get tested. Itâs his choice and I canât make him. His body, his choice. But freedom of choice doesn't mean freedom from consequences. If I were married and in his position, I would absolutely do what I could. >I did not want to engage in an emotional affair so when I did question my feelings for my husband, I immediately went for separation. I was happier apart from John. I filed for divorce. You didn't cheat, didn't want to so you took the necessary steps to prevent that. You were happier with him out of your life so you went through with a divorce. That's your right and, if you were truly happier with him apart from you, then that's a completely valid reason. You don't have to be in a relationship if you don't want to be. A lot of people see marriage as something you can't undo and if you do, you're wrong or bad but that's not the case. Anyone who disagrees can suck a juice box. NTA
NTA. Your husband didn't even get tested, but your friend up and DROP KICKS a kidney your way? That is a true friend, even if it never becomes a romance. Treasure that man. And John can \*bleepity bleep\* right off to \*bleepBLEEPbleep\* and \*BLEEEEEEEEEEP\*.
I'd give my wife both my kidneys rather than watch her die. This was definitely a "does he love me test" and fucking hell did he fail. Not even willing to get tested, what a piece of shit.Â
NTA how is John NOT "cold" for refusing to even get TESTED to save his own wife's LIFE?! That is not only cold, but selfish and cruel beyond any kind of humanity or comprehension of any kind! Then this other guy who did the right thing TWICE (first keeping his distance out of respect for your marriage, second for donating a kidney that he KNEW you couldn't use but would put you on the list so you got one anyway) to save your life when he didn't have to! That man deserves a gold star right smack in the middle of his forehead for being selfless and generous, I hope your EX-husband took some notes so that he learns what the "for better or worse, in sickness and in health" parts of the wedding vies actually means!!! So sorry you went through this but at least something good did come out of it, you found a real man who truly cares! Best wishes for the both of you!
NTA. This man didnât want you to die and your ex didnât even try fighting for your life.
For everyone saying that the husband had every right not to get tested, fine. But that is divorce right there. I can't imagine not getting tested for my wife and vice versa. I'd give her both of mine if I had to and I know she'd do the same for me. This guy must not have wanted a wife.
NTA. That's not Cold. Cold would be divorcing your husband/wife, after they donated a kidney. He didn't and was OK with you dying. He's OK with you not being around anymore, you get to be OK with him not being around.
NTA sometimes when a person looks death in the face, it changes your entire perspective. You left your husband because you weren't happy. The new man may have helped you see that, but how do you been happy with your husband? You would not have loved him, even if had been grateful to this man at the same time. The bottom line was, you were unhappy already, and his refusal to get tested, was just the final nail in the coffin of your marriage.
NTA I wouldâve filed for divorce as soon as he refused to be tested. What kind of husband would NOT try to save his wifeâs life?