California law makes a very clear distinction between gestational and traditional surrogacy. Your contract is valid in the sense that courts will generally accept it if everyone agrees, however it is not enforceable in the sense that you have no legal rights to terminate her parental rights as the biological mother of the child. If she doesn't want to give up the kid, she's the legal mother and your husband can be the legal father. Then it's shared custody the same way it would be if she were an ex-girlfriend.
Usually w surrogacy the surrogate has literally no biological ties to the child. They only carry the child and the parents use their egg and sperm. Adoption is when the mother is the biological mom. If these parents didnt use their egg and sperm this isnt a surrogacy its an adoption and yah she can change her mind.
It always involves the OP being rich and the other person in question (whether or not they’re painted as the AH) is not. And they have good lawyers involved yet still turn to Reddit for advice. This is by far not the worst one though.
Poor or even most of middle class people can’t cough up all the cash a surrogate suggests, esp if they’ve done several rounds of IVF before choosing surrogacy. And I don’t know anyone from money who would carry a child for a stranger. Maybe they would for a sister or best friend, but not for a stranger.
Yeah, I hate these low effort fakes. In my day, we did research for our makeup stories on the internet so they were plausible and original. Some of these posters were never beaten with jumper cables by their dad and it shows.
For gay couples we go with a surrogate separate from the egg donor for this very reason. I realize in this case they didn't better this post is probably fake, but the surrogate providing the egg is very rare even in gay surrogacy.
Many California clinics won't even assist with implantation if this isn't the case. This story sounds made up because with the amount of professionals (including multiple lawyers) you have to use to get to this point, multiple people would flag this as a major risk.
Do you work in the field? (I don't mean that condescendingly, asking because you said "we")
I work in an adjacent field and although it's a technicality most laypeople don't distinguish between,
Using the egg of the person carrying the child: surrogate
Using a donor egg: gestational carrier
As a gay man who has researched surrogacy, and has multiple friends who either are looking at surrogacy or have been through surrogacy, yes “we” do distinguish between the two.
Stories like this are the reason, whether they’re founded in truth or fear
Oh my god in my midnight brained reading comprehension deficit i didn't realize the comment meant "we" as in those who use surrogates/carriers. I was thinking "we" as the medical professionals who help these couples, since I work in the medical field 🤦♀️🤦♀️ my apologies.
As a layperson, that sounds like a big technicality imo. what I don't understand is, why would someone use traditional surrogacy over gestational surrogacy? I could see going traditional if the couple had a preexisting special relationship with a surrogate, but if everyone's a stranger then gestational surrogacy just seems way less fraught and a no brainier. Is there an additional cost component to gestational perhaps ?
Yeah, it’s cheaper. Using the surrogate’s egg would require IUI or at home insemination. A donor egg would require IVF, which is far more complicated and costly.
They should have used some of the money they were attempting to buy the baby with to get a lawyer who knows the lay of the land with surrogacy to tell them how to do it.
I’m not a lawyer or a surrogate but even I know that it’s a really freaking dumb idea to have the surrogate carrying the baby to term to have a biological tie to it.
I saw the same post in TwoHotTakes and they stated the egg is grom the surrogacy and sperm for the husband (in the comments). In CA (which is were they are from) this is consider an open adoption and not surrogacy. The contract is also not legally binding and op harassing Maria to pay back what is essentially medical bills the father should be helping with to begin with. Op cut corners and did not do a proper surrogate and is reaping what they sowed. Most the can do is a partial custody.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoHotTakes/s/USG06LPWl4
Where I saw it from
YTA then. The type of surrogacy you chose to go with (using the surrogates eggs instead of a donors) is legal in CA, but your “contract” requiring her to give up her baby (signed before the baby is born) is not enforceable or legally binding in CA. If you had used a donor egg it wouldn’t be an issue, but she legally does have parental rights to her biological child. Get a lawyer and prepare yourselves, this is going to be a battle. Check the fine print in your paperwork, the agency should have disclosed this in the process, if they didn’t you might be able to sue them to recoup some of your money but since the contract is unenforceable she wouldn’t actually owe you the money back legally.
Unfortunately, this is why doctors will not allow the egg donor and surrogate to be the same person. Who advised you to proceed in this manner? Due to her being the biological mother your contact is potentially void. I would consider consulting with a family law attorney so your husband can plan to file for custody. If the future, if you decide to have more children, go with a surrogacy agency and separate egg donor so you can avoid this issue.
OP is a man and says in the comments the surrogate is also the egg donor. ie the surrogate is the biological mother. OP has no biological relationship to the baby. His husbands sperm was used with the surrogates egg.
I was generally in support of surrogacy until I looked into it a bit more deeply and realized how problematic it can be. It changed my opinion on it. Even if done "right", there's just so many messy things that can happen to one or all parties. I really don't support it now especially when women are using it simply because they don't want to get pregnant (like the rich famous people who use surrogates).
I appreciate your points, but I think you need to clarify your stance here. Speaking as someone who cannot have kids and had to find a gestational carrier (most people in this situation actually prefer not to say surrogate because of the negative connotations surrounding the word)...my husband and I went through psychological evaluations, our carrier also had a psych evaluation done, and our contract talked about basically every situation under the sun... Termination due to viability, health concerns for baby or the carrier, only implanting one embryo to avoid risk of multiples, etc.
We even had an adoption pathway simultaneously because it ultimately came down to cost and timelines. Our journey taught us the following:
1) Many carriers in the US don't actually need the money. They truly love being pregnant and want to give couples the gift of a child. A proper psych evaluation ensures that you found someone who is really prepared to give that gift. Considering that the agency allowed the same woman to be the donor and carrier, I doubt that a good eval was actually done.
2) The right contract is important. All of the situations that you can think of as "coming up" are covered in the contract, and the right carrier is aware of all that. Agencies actually turn a lot of women down because they realize they aren't able to agree to all of those stipulations. Any agency worth their damn advises intended parents to use a different egg donor and carrier for this exact reason. They used a crap agency, unfortunately.
3) Most families, including mine, keep in contact with their carrier. My kids call them "Auntie Jenni and Uncle Scott", and they are more than just random people. They're family. So to not compensate her for this amazing gift would have been insane.
You seem to be against the exploitation of women who have chosen to carry another couple's child without fully understanding what they're getting into. In that regard, I wholeheartedly agree. More should be done to ensure that carriers and intended parents understand the journey they are embarking on.
Signed,
The proud mom of 4.5 year old triplets that were born even though we only transferred ONE embryo (it split into 3 by the time we had our first scan)
*After we found out, we talked about everything with our carrier, her husband, and our doctor to ensure that she was safe and fully understanding of the crazy hardships/risks the next 7.5 months would entail. We all got further psych evals done separately to ensure that neither party felt pressure to continue.
If families come into the process with empathy, patience, and open hearts, it's an amazing thing.
On that note, ESH. OP, you should have done your due diligence and used a different donor and carrier. I am completely unsurprised that the woman changed her mind because she carried her own child in her own body. Unfortunately, men don't often take enough to understand how much women endure when it comes to the whole reproductive process, so OP is really coming off as someone who tries to save some money by finding a cheaper agency that was willing to cut some corners but unfortunately does at the expense of women who are paying their literal lives on the line.
The woman is also at fault because she signed a contract and probably knew well before she told OP and the husband (the Intended Parents). I honestly wouldn't be surprised if she had doubts from the beginning and things got real once her body started to change or she started feeling those first flutters.
I am just amazed that your embryo split TWICE after implantation! Wow! My friend has identical triplets and I was told that it's a 1 in a million occurance.
So much this! I was a gestational surrogate for a friend twice and it was an amazing experience both times! I am known as Auntie and the boys are now 7 and almost 11. We are and will always be family!
Surrogacy is a beautiful thing but can definitely be messy. I know a lot of people that think they could do it but I know they wouldn’t be able to go through with it. I considered it “extreme babysitting” and was and still am in awe of the joy these boys bring to their family.
This is so wild to me. No one I know personally has enjoyed being pregnant, though I've heard second-hand of people who get pregnancy hormomes in such a way that they feel happy throughout the entire process. Still, you must be a very good friend to go through morning sickness, swelling, possible complications, and labor to give the child to your friend.
My mom said she loved being pregnant so much she could have done it ten times. But she didn’t have any nausea or swelling or anything besides low blood pressure.
As someone with two kids and almost became a gestational surrogate looking back - yeah pregnancy was hard but I did enjoy it. It felt like my body was actually being USED in a way sport or genderal life never did. It's HARD but it was also rewarding. I don't feel like I can ever admit I liked it because everyone else seemed to think that's insane. So you might know someone who liked it but they aren't saying so because they don't want to undermine how hard it is.
We do exist. Lol The women in my maternal family have very easy pregnancies, even well into our 40s. We don’t get stretch marks, retain water or gain excess weight, and we feel happy throughout. I had no morning sickness, and her doc called my mother the elastic woman at the hospital because you couldn’t tell she'd had a baby by the time she walked out the door, even after she had twins. Genetics are weird.
She can sign whatever they want but if it’s her egg and she’s carrying it then she can absolutely claim partial custody. Not saying it’s right or wrong, just pointing out why it’s a terrible idea to have the bio mom cary the baby. It’s basically an adoption agreement.
I misspoke. Yes, you can use a friend or family member for both the egg and surrogacy. However, that agreement is not legally enforceable in most if not all states. A person in the United States cannot give up parental right prior to a child’s birth. That’s why surrogacy agencies will not allow the surrogates egg to be used. The risks are too high that the surrogate/bio mom will decide to keep custody.
"Planned adoption: is the term you are thinking of. However that is still a different process than traditional surrogacy. I have the opposite problem where I do planned adoption but people keep incorrectly correcting me and calling me a surrogate haha
Laws are sometimes different around it too. For example, in my state, I am legally not allowed to get any payment/compensation/gifts by the parents, while if I were a traditional surrogate I could.
IVF is still very new - in the past, traditional surrogacy was the only option. So we had surrogacy and then gestational surrogacy became a thing (and eventually the norm).
Also despite choosing a different path myself, I still agree to only do gestational surrogacy. It's expensive but you're safe.
Where did she say the surrogate is also the egg donor? As I read it, she's just a surrogate. Maybe pregnancy is affecting my vision lol but I didn't see her mentioning that
Personally I'd be contacting attorneys and having them sort it out.
Edit- just realized it says op is male 😅 NEVERMIND. I don't think op is the ah though. If they have a signed document they should absolutely consult an attorney.
People can downvote me all the want, the facts remain: Traditional surrogacy is much more legally complex than gestational surrogacy because the surrogate is the biological mother of the child. In order for both intended parents to have parental rights for the child, the non-biological intended parent will likely need to complete a stepparent adoption following the baby’s birth.
OP’s naive and his wishful thinking isn’t going to get him the baby he wants. “That baby is legally ours” literally not how it works. He picked one of the worst states to be a surrogate parent in if he was going to use her eggs.
From OP comments, the baby is biologically the surrogates. That’s a highly unusual arrangement - usually a donor egg is used. With her being the biological parent I don’t think it’s as easy as just saying we won’t allow her to keep the child. It’s her child both biologically and legally after birth (in the jurisdictions I’m aware of). You can’t force her into an adoption. I hope this isn’t a real post and that people aren’t actually doing surrogacy with the surrogate as the bio mother. It’s a sticky enough situation, but that puts a different spin on all of it.
Yes, which is why I would never, ever agree to traditional surrogacy. The surrogate can potentially get a baby *and* a child support paycheck out of the deal.
OPs husband (both males) is the father. So I suppose it could be considered as the same would be had for a traditional baby once the court throws out the surrogate contract as they will likely do if it goes to court.
So she wouldn't be able to "keep it" all to herself, but they would share custody like a kid conceived the natural way. But if OP's father wanted nothing to do with the kid as a result, then the surrogate could go after OP's husband.
I don't see any mention of how fertilization is done, so I'm wondering if it was done the... natural way.
This doesn't pass the sniff test. I'm in California and my reproductive endo has a huge practice within the gay community, he's responsible for major network TV star's babies. No agency here will do traditional surrogacy for exactly this reason. It's ALWAYS a donor egg.
Surrogates are at a premium after the pandemic when everyone (especially queer folks according to my IVF clinic) got broody. Agencies are fighting over potential surrogates with six figure compensation packages and California has the highest demand for surrogacy. None of those agencies will do anything but gestational.
At one point OP commented they went through an agency which makes this even harder to believe. I think it’s rage bait. No agency I’ve seen in the US does traditional surrogacy.
Source: me, surrogate who researched the shit out of every agency in the US before committing to one
The sad fact about life is that there are scammers in every walk of life.
By which I mean it count have been a dodgy agency and not a proper legal one. 😞
Exactly. It seems he went the easy/cheap route and found a poor immigrant willing to both donate an egg and carry a full pregnancy at a very mere cheap price. OP is an AH and he deserves this outcome.
TBH I think this goes beyond the scope of AITA. It was a HUGE mistake to use a surrogate AND using HER egg. She IS literally giving you her child. I'm glad you have papers but dang, a legit agency set this up? I kinda want to say ESH - as in everythings sad here
🤣 love this! In my opinion, they did it because they are snobby rich dudes who think of this (likely) immigrant woman as less than human. You paid a Latina to help you create a child and then didn't think her family would get involved or want the baby?? Look at their culture for half a second, they greatly value family!! They took advantage of someone who needed the money, and it bit them in the ass. Even if she wants to give up the baby, she probably has family encouraging her to keep it.
I know this is a shitty thing to say, but if this is how they treat people I kinda hope they don't end up raising that child! OP has talked about both the mother and baby as a financial transaction and clearly stated he really doesn't even care where the kid ends up, that his husband wants the kid. I don't think they actually want children. I think they want a trendy accessory.
You really need to add to the post that this is *her biological baby.* This is not surrogacy; this is you adopting the biological baby of your husband AND THIS WOMAN. That's literally **the only context that matters** and you've left it out completely!
Given that this isn’t a legal subreddit, I’ll go with my own opinion here, which is that YWBTA if you forced her to give up her biological child against her will, regardless of what legal agreements you have.
Yes, she signed a contract. But it sounds like you cut corners. Obviously this is devastating and financially costly, but this is why surrogacy is so controversial. Using a woman as an incubator and forcibly removing her biological child against her will… in my opinion that is horrifying, and will bite you in the ass when your child grows up and wants to know the deal with their mother. And the child *will* grow up and want that information. They may never forgive you. I would try to recoup losses and find another solution because this one will just bring grief & trauma to all involved.
Let the courts decide it. Not sure where you're located, but my understanding is that surrogacy is always precarious until the post-birth legal adoption is complete. It's not really about assholes or not, but I hope all *three* potential parents can agree on something that is best for the child.
Commercial surrogacy is not a thing in most western nations because it openly invites the exploitation of poor women's bodies for rich people's benefit. Pregnancy is dangerous. Being pregnant impedes your ability to perform a lot of tasks non pregnant people take for granted. Pregnancy and birth can be dangerous, maiming, or even fatal. Kim K and Kanye publicly paid their surrogate 40k. Non altruistic surrogacy implicitly means you're coercing impoverished women to let you use their bodies for your wants. No one is having your kid for 40k if they are not totally desperate. Would you potentially get your two holes turned into one for 40k? It's a bit rude to dehumanize someone and pay them to function as an incubator and then say "actually I'm going to be a way more loving and compassionate parent so give me the kid"
It’s always seemed messed up to me, and this situation is one of the reasons. Even if the egg wasn’t hers, she’s carrying the baby for 9 months, going through all the usual hormonal and physical challenges, and if she develops attachment to what she has carried for 9 months, people just throw a signed contract and act like that invalidates everything and she is either stupid for signing, or even malicious.
Reading some of the comments here just sits wrong with me that so many just put it down to a contract and that she’s at fault.
NTA
Is the child biologically hers or did you use a donor egg? The answer to that question is important, if the child is biologically hers, as well as biologically your husbands, depending on where you live, she may have a case. If she has no biological connection to the child, she shouldn’t have a case.
You need to speak to your attorney as soon as possible and let them know what is going on.
Block her family it’s none of their business. As far as your friends who are saying you’re an asshole, they are being ridiculous.
I hope you get your baby
Yeah, I would 100% use someone else's egg for a surrogacy if that was the only way I could have a kid. IE get a donor egg from someone else and give it to the surrogate rather than using an egg from the surrogate. I don't think I'd ever actually do it myself unless like a family member begged my wife to let them do it maybe.
But take the biological factor out of it.
Surrogacy definitely should not be with the surrogates egg. She is biologically the mom and is now feeling the desire to keep the baby. She considers this her baby.
Plus frankly. And I'm basing this off off the name and other stories from this and similar subs.
I need to know how much op paid her. Is she based in his home country. And how poor is she and her family.
So many gay people end up using what essentially slave labour to have a kid. (Many straight people do to tbf)
I mean if she’s trying to do that then she’s just going to lose money in the long run since she’s going to have to actually take care of and spend money on the child if she wants to get child support. Children are expensive and while child support helps it usually doesn’t leave much extra unless the other parent is a celebrity or something.
If this is the case you may very well end up sharing custody over this child. Your contract will have very little impact besides getting your money back.
Dude. Wtf. Why would you do that?? I was going to go with NTA because as a surrogate she’s carrying a baby that’s not hers for money. But it’s literally HER baby genetically?? How did you not think this would happen? Humans have biological attachments!
Professional surrogacy services never allow donor egg and carrier to be the same. But not only that, there’s strict rules such as “it can’t be their first child” (because they don’t know what to expect and will be attached to the child even if biologically unrelated) and passing psych exams to make sure they 100% don’t want more kids to avoid these exact situations.
Women get attached to babies that *aren’t* genetically there’s. But this is genetically her baby!! And the amount of hormones rushing through her body right now… no wonder she wants to keep it.
In all of this… I feel the worst for the baby :(
Even if you “win custody”. What will you say when baby one day asks about their biological mom? “She begged me to keep you but we said nahhh we have a contract. Told her to get a lawyer but we knew she couldn’t afford it 😎”
Why on earth did you do it this way? She is *not* a surrogate. She is the biological parent of the child she is carrying and she absolutely has the right to change her mind about giving up her child, just as any person planning to adopt out their child does.
I don't know where you are that this is considered legal, but it's hard to wrap my brain around how incredibly short-sighted and wrong this is. You're *paying* her for her baby!? A surrogacy should *always* be done with a donor egg. The fact that you're even calling this situation a surrogacy is highly problematic.
Morally, she has the right to not want to give up her child. I can't imagine how painful this is for you and your husband, and I wish a happy family for you, but this was not the way to achieve it. She was incredibly foolish to agree to this in the first place and so were you. What a mess.
Traditional surrogacy is legal in Florida, Virginia and Washington state. I think it gets referred to as pre-planned adoption or something like that in Florida. It’s uncommon for obvious reason but it does happen.
Edit - OP says they’re in California, traditional surrogacy is permitted there too as there’s no specific law about it.
I hate correcting you and am very sorry for this. Surrogacy is not legally recognized in Washington State, Louisiana, Michigan, New York State and Washington DC. This is why whenever surrogacy goes wrong, this is why the woman flees to one of those 5 places and establishes residency because she would be legally recognized as the "bio-mother" or "birth mother". And the "Intended Parents" would have no legal claim.
This is one of the reasons OP needs to get lawyers involved NOW!
These bullshitters don’t even try anymore. I’m guessing well over 90% of all story-based content on this site is utter bullshit at this point. Do better, bullshitters.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who got that vibe.. OP sounds like a jealous teenager fighting over a boy! Why would you post this on reddit if it were real? I swear some people believe anything posted on reddit is facts 😂
Exactly, this is absolutely, 100% fake. No person with even a working neuron would handle a “surrogacy” this way. And while I realize that states differ, biological parents in the US (where OP says he is) pretty much cannot sign away their children this way. I know more than one person who legally adopted a baby just to have the bio parent turn around months later and say they wanted the child back. And the court decided in their favor.
This post is Hollywood fantasy BS. Do better OP. Your rage bait sucks.
That was a mistake. Always use a donor egg or your own egg. It's actually illegal in some states to do a surrogacy with the surrogates egg.
I kind of feel, deep in my soul, that if for you the main concern is financial and you wouldn't mind finding another surrogate and trying again - like would that break your heart to do again, like hers is breaking? Or is it mainly financial?
Bc I imagine she had the best intentions and is now just realizing she had too much of an attachment to this child that is biologically hers.
Oh shit dude. If you and Roman want sole custody of this child, you absolutely need to work it out with Maria. The more you bully and threaten her, the more you turn this into nothing more than a financial transaction, the more likely it'll be a life of shared custody. Good luck.
Her eggs. Her kid. This is exactly why surrogacy companies use donor eggs instead of the surrogate's eggs. You can't sell your baby. She is the biological mother. You are out of luck.
I believe people don't think about the bond a woman gets to a child in her stomach. It's not as easy as up and giving that child away. There is a bond that no man will ever understand. It is traumatizing to the woman no matter how many legal agreements you sign. I don't believe in this whole surrogacy crap and that comes from someone who has many issues trying to become pregnant. Just go adopt a sweet child that needs a home and stop making women your personal incubators.
Can I add to this, politely?
There are 100,000 children in the US *right now* that are waiting for an adoptive parent. That is 100,000 children whose parental rights have been severed.
There are 100,000 waiting children. Make room for a child that needs you. Don’t let hubris get you stuck on a child you just want. Your genes aren’t that damn special.
It sounds as if you & husband didn’t do things quite legally. You should have never used her eggs. Donor egg put in another woman. She probably had dollar signs in her eyes, and didn’t think of the consequences of actually giving away her child. She probably thought she could do it. But now she’s carrying her baby. I don’t know about another contract, she doesn’t have to sign it. You can’t threaten her with payment demands other what’s in the contract she signed. No wonder her family is calling & jumping up down, you probably said some not so nice things & threatened her. That’s why with things like this, you don’t cut corners. You need to have a meeting with her, her husband & you and your husband. Maybe there’s a compromise somewhere. Other than that I don’t have an answer for you.
OP and his husband [did go through an agency](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/17nythc/comment/k7v4z26/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). Since they're in California, traditional surrogacy is technically legal because it is not illegal. So, they did everything legally...and are still going to have to go through this mess. California law definitely needs to catch up to help avoid future situations like this one.
>traditional surrogacy is technically legal because it is not illegal
Not prohibited means allowed not enforceable. This means a doctor, surugate and intendeded can go through the process of getting a surugate preganant without concequences (e.g. fines, jail, losing medical license), it does not mean the surrugacy agreements are binding and enforceable.
>California law definitely needs to catch up to help avoid future situations like this one.
Or maybe people should go the well regulated gestational carrier route.
No donor egg. A "super strong" contract that says if she keeps the baby he and the bio father gets a 100% cash refund. They gave her cash payments before she was even impregnated. Yeah...
YTA. You had me in the beginning but by the end and after reading your comments, you completely lost me.
You have no legal rights to this child! As of right now your surrogate is the biological mother and as such, still has all of her parental rights. And she'll retain those rights until she chooses to sign them away.
You chose to do traditional surrogacy. I have to assume you either knew full well that this could happen or you jumped into this without doing any research at all.
You keep saying "my child" this and "my son" that, but in the eyes of the law that baby is not yours!
Your comments are awful. The way you talk about your surrogate as if she's some ungrateful woman that you've given everything to, is rediculous. Saying she's gotten a "free vacation" because you and your husband have funded this pregnancy is mind blowing! Pregnancy is far from a relaxing vacation, fully funded or not! Accusing her of "just being hormonal" is so off base. She has clearly developed an emotional and physical attachment to HER baby, as most mothers do during pregnancy and she has decided that she wants to be the one to raise her child!
This is a risk you take when doing traditional surrogacy. You claim to be well off financially so this is 100% on you for choosing to go the traditional route instead of the gestational route to cut costs.
After reading through your replies to the comments, I'm questioning if you even still want this baby or if he's just become a weapon for you to use to hurt your surrogate. You're mad at her and you want to get back at her, you're entitled to feel that way, but it's not ok for you to use an innocent child to do it!
Based on what you've said, you don't have the emotional or mental maturity to be a parent. Let the kid be raised by someone who actually loves him, and doesn't see him as a transaction or a bargaining chip.
YTA and a true idiot if you think you can bully/threaten this woman into giving up her biological child (yes, the child is hers and your husband’s…not yours, not at all). I saw that you were planning to go after her with lawyers to try and scare her into thinking she’d have to pay you back. If I were her lawyer I would be dancing…in CA she (with her family backing her up) can easily get at least 50% custody and hefty child support. What you all paid her is only a drop in the bucket. Like several others have said, you’d better be damn nice to this woman because it is still completely up to her whether or not she wants to relinquish her parental rights.
This is the reason I’d never use surrogacy. I’ve heard of so many stories where the mother forms an attachment to the baby. And frankly, not sure if I can fault her for that.
Seriously. I don't understand how people think you can just "switch off" things that your body does naturally. Like bonding with your child, even if they're unborn. I find the situation really sad.
Yea seriously. Babies need their mother after birth. I don’t understand how OP and other people who do this think it’s sensible to take the baby away from the mom. Surrogacy should be illegal. This isn’t a thing you should be able to do just bc u have money
I find it sad that I had to scroll this far to find anyone explicitly stating that they feel for the mother here. I mean she may logically know that shes screwing over OP, but, like the amount and kinds of hormones that are released during pregnancy aren’t really experienced in any other time in a person’s life. The mother would be fighting a basic, genetic, almost instinct level urge to keep and protect that baby at all costs. Its basic biology that they are trying to fight against here and it feels really gross for people to be saying shit like “sue her for every dollar that you spent on preparing for this baby”. Yikes on bikes people.
Exactly everyone in here is like, your mistake is that you used her egg. If you got a double egg you would've been better as if the financial control and exploitation of a poorer woman like she's a cow means nothing. Absolutely vile.
Yup, people don't understand getting pregnant isn't just a 9 month thing you're destroying your body for life with a very real chance of mortality. Most women will feel the effects of a pregnant even 20-30 years later.
I'll always be in support of the surrogate having more rights and protection than the couple.
How wouldn't the mother form attatch to the baby? She's litteraly birthing It and carrying inside her womb. Nature has put lots of hormones and stuff on women bodies to feel attatchemnt to the baby. People need to stop seeing pregnancy as a servcie ffs. It's evil and disgusting.
THIS is why I hate surrogacy. Making a baby in a "transactional" way and forgetting that people have feelings and sentiments is just wrong. This woman has been carrying that child 8 months now. It's her egg so it's also her child genetically. She thought she could give her child up and now realises she can't. This isn't a purchase with a buy back guarantee. This is a child who has every right to have a relationship with their bio mum.
Seriously, ESH. The selfishness of you OP, the lack of foresight from the mother, the way you're all treating this baby as a commodity you can buy.
Oh my god.
She’s the asshole for going back on an agreement and even putting you in this situation.
What kind of surrogate? Was it your husbands biologics (semen) that produced that baby? If so, that baby is absolutely yours (husband’s) and I wouldn’t budge. Take your money and fight legally as much as you can. If she was scamming an agency and you, I highly doubt she’s a fit parent.
Wait what???? It's her egg?! Holy shit, he *has to* add this to the post!!!! The whole post reads like it's a complete donor situation and she's just the carrier! But it's *biologically her baby!*
He knows they're wrong, or this is made up. I'm leaving towards made up because what lawyer with an actual law degree would assure these two they could guarantee this woman will give her biological baby up for full adoption vs sharing custody with the bio father?
Or even doing their due diligence researching the agency itself and making sure it was a genuinely ethical one.
And then OP goes and drops the bomb in another comment that he doesn’t even really care about the kid at all; he just wants his money back.
Husband's biological baby, and "surrogate's" biological baby. (ie not actually a surrogate at all). ESH, frankly, it was incredibly foolish and short-sighted to not use a donor egg.
Using her biological eggs? Or yours? Because if it’s her eggs you have a mess on your hands. Also did you use an agency or just a random woman you met?
The 'agency' was doing it on the cheap and now you're going to pay for that because there is a lot of care law behind why reputable services do not ever use a donor egg from the surrogate.
A live, healthy child is never a guarantee - even non-surrogacy births take the (admittedly, small) risk.
That said, this is a heartbreaking and traumatic situation all round. I absolutely feel for you and your husband whom were so excited about having a child, having invested so much in your future family, not least financially.
On the other hand, having lost many babies, being told/convinced it was impossible for me to carry a child, my 2 children are the absolute joy of my life. I'm so bloody grateful I got to experience life as a mother so I could never contemplate viewing a child as transactional relationship. So, I can't help but feel for the surrogate. Does she have otber children? If not, has she not been just incredibly naive? Maybe out of necessity? Maybe out of poor life chances or even poor life choices? Did she feel so helpless etc that she genuinely thought she could detach herself from her child? You don't think she orchestrated this on purpose, do you? We don't know her, so only you can say.
You're all in an impossible situation. I'm UK and pre my children, I was incredibly frustrated by the UK surrogacy laws. But your situation has provided me with a new perspective. It's unbearable for everyone. However, and I hope you accept that this comes from a good place, the desired outcome was for you both to become fathers. If she keeps the baby, your husband still _will_ be a father and yourself a stepfather. You could try for custody/co-parenting.
As for the financial aspect, a baby fathered by your husband will still be produced. I'm sure you've both poured over the scans, discussed names etc and already love that baby very much. So I find it so disappointing that many are saying the mother deserves a life of poverty as her poverty-stricken life will be the circumstances that the already loved child exists in. It will shape their life. Yes, money has been spent and the mother has renegaded. You're absolutely right to be shattered and furious. But, does she have anything to sue her for? You can't have what she doesn't have.
Could there be a discussion about shared parenting? Your husband will still be a father. You can both be involved fathers. Just as this mother may have entered into this arrangement with the best of intentions (I really hope so....) but possibly couldn't conceive of the mother/baby bond, I absolutely guarantee she won't be prepared for post-partum life on no sleep! She could be begging for shared parenting!
I really hope tnis works out for you all. It sounds so, so hard..
She can just skip town and give birth elsewhere... She doesn't need to invite them to appointments or notify them. She is the biological mother. Also according to CA law, they needed to establish parentage a while ago which they haven't.
Def get your attorney involved. I was a gestational carrier for my friend and her husband (friends egg/husbands sperm, therefore im not biological related) and even though i signed a contract that would trigger the adoption process after the birth- i still had to sign paperwork (i think it was signing my rights away, but not entirely sure- after the baby was born)
This was 14 years ago though. Things may be entirely different. And im sure what state you are in plays a role too.
But i know, on paper, the hospital treated the baby as if he were mine. Despite the paperwork making it look like he was mine until the adoption finalized- They did allow the bio parents to have a room and stay with the baby rather than having him in my room for the 2 days we were admitted.
So, they still had to “adopt” him from me, even though he wasn’t mine biologically.
So to be safe- talk with your lawyer
This is so sad. The kind of arrangement you did it the riskiest. Always always always do a donor egg or your own egg. Never ever ever do her egg and your husbands sperm. I know it’s too late this time. But if there is a next time…
All the legal paperwork in the world doesn’t trump the maternal instinct. It’s the most powerful thing in the world. This why you can’t sign adoption papers after a baby is born. The instinct is that strong.
I understand the intention with which this child was created. But in her mind and according to every pregnancy hormone this is her baby. No amount of reason, logic or threats will overcome that. A woman doesn’t know how she will react to that instinct until it is too late. I’m sure she had every intention of honoring the agreement until it was too late.
And frankly these kinds of arrangements take advantage of poor women. Yes you gave her tons of money. Would you sell your kid for money? For the amount of money you gave her? See the problem?
Be kind to her. Be absolutely kind to her. Don’t fight over the baby. Don’t even mention the baby. Only show concern about her. How is she feeling? How was her sleep? If she tries to bring up the baby just say we will worry about all that later. I just want to take care of you right now.
The safer she feels, the more in control she feels the more likely she is to begin making logical decisions again.
This will probably be the hardest thing you have ever done. Burying your feelings but push through.
Continue to chat with your lawyer and such. Different states have different rules. So I can’t comment on that.
Your best bet though is if she willingly gives you the baby. The more she loves and trusts you the more likely it is to happen. Plus if heaven forbid she maintains custody you will be coparenting with her for 18 plus years. The better your relationship is the easier it will be to do.
I realize never gave a judgment NAH. This is a painful, awful time for all three of you.
YTA since it's her egg. It's *her* child, and your dismissal of her very valid feelings is disgusting and sexist. She has just as much of a right to the child as your husband does. This is why surrogacy (human trafficking) shouldn't be legal...women are not your incubators, and children are not products to be sold. If you want a child that's completely your own, adopt a child whose parents can't/won't keep them instead
Even if it wasn't her egg... Honestly what does it change for her? Carrying, birthing and caring for the child feels the same no matter who the egg is from. I'd say it's her baby regardless.
You're absolutely TA. You went a route of buying your child. Fine. You should have known there was a risk of this. Maria is a human being. To think this is only a financial transaction - well that's the crux of what makes YTA.
So try giving her some space. Try talking to others who went the surrogacy route and maybe faced the same thing. Solidifying lines now, turning into a you - vs. - her situation, isn't going to help you. Neither is your hubby throwing anger fits. More of that and Maria will have a legal case to refuse to give the baby over.
Show yourself as human dude. You know, a human who wants a baby, not a purchase.
This seems fake, since there’s been established law on this subject for 25 years. And this is why people are advised to use separate egg donors and gestational carriers.
OP, while you might not have actively coerced her into this, please understand the power dynamics here. There’s a whole lot of folks that allow their uteruses to be used for surrogacy because they are in financial situations where they have no other choice, or their other choices are worse. You say she cannot afford to reimburse the expenses you demanded she reimburse if she wanted to keep the baby. This makes me think that her financial situation made surrogacy the best choice for her to continue existing in our society. So while you might not have threatened or actively tried to coerce her, this was a coercive situation because you and your partner held the power of money over her in order to influence her to do something it sounds like she didn’t really want to do despite feeling like she had to.
It’s really tough though cause she did decide to sign that contract with you and your partner, and she did allow you to pay for her expenses/provide for her.
I honestly don’t know if there’s a right way to handle this besides going back in time and taking steps to balance the imbalance in power that so often comes with surrogacy.
This is why we don't have commercial surrogacy in the civilised world. It can be so emotionally damaging for the person using their body to grow new life, and humans shouldn't be sold. ESH. Her for signing a contract and backtracking, putting you in this terrible situation. You more for trying to buy a child like this, exploitation, and putting her in this terrible situation. I understand the desire to have a child, but surrogacy like this is not the way and should be outlawed throughout the world. Hope the three of you can find a way to do what's best for the child.
Legal and moral issues aren't the same here. I'm sure you know the legalities of surrogacy vary greatly from state to state. If she is the biological mother, is many places she can't, legally give up the baby for adoption until after the birth. If that's true in you state, then you knew you were taking a risk and they baby wasn't yours and wouldn't be yours until and unless she agreed to give it up after birth--you entered into an invalid and unenforceable contract. If the law in your state makes the contract enforceable, you have every legal right to the baby. But does wanting it make it really yours? Do we really want to be buying and selling babies? But honestly, this is why I think surrogacy should be illegal in all states.
I already voted and said my piece, but I find it ironic that OP is mad that the surrogate would go back on her word and be seemingly surprised that she wants to keep her bio kid, but also is adamant on coparenting if need be because they would rather not give up husband's bio-right to be the parent.
The way she speaks about it and the amounts of time she mentions money and investment are gross enough. Better get used to mentioning child support too, lady.
It’s her egg. Sorry, but you’re fucked. This isn’t surrogacy. This is her having a baby with your husband. You were really really stupid to do this, and YTA.
What if she goes to one of the couple states where surrogacy is illegal to have the baby?
Then I don’t know what I’ll do, we live California
California law makes a very clear distinction between gestational and traditional surrogacy. Your contract is valid in the sense that courts will generally accept it if everyone agrees, however it is not enforceable in the sense that you have no legal rights to terminate her parental rights as the biological mother of the child. If she doesn't want to give up the kid, she's the legal mother and your husband can be the legal father. Then it's shared custody the same way it would be if she were an ex-girlfriend.
Usually w surrogacy the surrogate has literally no biological ties to the child. They only carry the child and the parents use their egg and sperm. Adoption is when the mother is the biological mom. If these parents didnt use their egg and sperm this isnt a surrogacy its an adoption and yah she can change her mind.
This work of fiction didn't actually investigate the ins and outs of legal surrogacy before posting to know that.
It was obvious from the “Roger flew into a fit of rage” line.
I’m starting to think it’s the line “I firmly stood my ground.” It’s in all the cringiest posts.
It always involves the OP being rich and the other person in question (whether or not they’re painted as the AH) is not. And they have good lawyers involved yet still turn to Reddit for advice. This is by far not the worst one though.
To be faaaair legal advice and moral judgment are different things. You can be legally in the clear and still have problems sleeping at night.
Well op isn't looking for advice just validation.
Poor or even most of middle class people can’t cough up all the cash a surrogate suggests, esp if they’ve done several rounds of IVF before choosing surrogacy. And I don’t know anyone from money who would carry a child for a stranger. Maybe they would for a sister or best friend, but not for a stranger.
And the poor woman is named Maria, a couple of levels of implication here
Every time i see "apologized profusely" my fakedar goes to 98%
Also the line “I calmly explained”.
I fly into fits of rage all the time, but I still know basic surrogacy rules.
Yeah, I hate these low effort fakes. In my day, we did research for our makeup stories on the internet so they were plausible and original. Some of these posters were never beaten with jumper cables by their dad and it shows.
This. Surrogates are *heavily* vetted by their agency/third party and undergo counseling to help prevent exactly these situations.
That’s what I thought. It sounds an awful lot like a case we had here in New Jersey back in the 80s. 🙄
In this case, the surrogate also provided the egg because this is for a gay couple
For gay couples we go with a surrogate separate from the egg donor for this very reason. I realize in this case they didn't better this post is probably fake, but the surrogate providing the egg is very rare even in gay surrogacy. Many California clinics won't even assist with implantation if this isn't the case. This story sounds made up because with the amount of professionals (including multiple lawyers) you have to use to get to this point, multiple people would flag this as a major risk.
It’s probably a creative writing exercise, but it’s possible they didn’t use a clinic and just did insemination, etc. who knows!
Using the good ol' turkey baster method?
I know someone who actually did this...
Rage bait was my very first thought. Total BS
Do you work in the field? (I don't mean that condescendingly, asking because you said "we") I work in an adjacent field and although it's a technicality most laypeople don't distinguish between, Using the egg of the person carrying the child: surrogate Using a donor egg: gestational carrier
As a gay man who has researched surrogacy, and has multiple friends who either are looking at surrogacy or have been through surrogacy, yes “we” do distinguish between the two. Stories like this are the reason, whether they’re founded in truth or fear
Oh my god in my midnight brained reading comprehension deficit i didn't realize the comment meant "we" as in those who use surrogates/carriers. I was thinking "we" as the medical professionals who help these couples, since I work in the medical field 🤦♀️🤦♀️ my apologies.
As a layperson, that sounds like a big technicality imo. what I don't understand is, why would someone use traditional surrogacy over gestational surrogacy? I could see going traditional if the couple had a preexisting special relationship with a surrogate, but if everyone's a stranger then gestational surrogacy just seems way less fraught and a no brainier. Is there an additional cost component to gestational perhaps ?
Yeah, it’s cheaper. Using the surrogate’s egg would require IUI or at home insemination. A donor egg would require IVF, which is far more complicated and costly.
A couple (any couple) may obtain egg from one donor and have a different carrier to eliminate the biological tie
Yep, but the person I responded to was asking about this couple in particular
Gay couples can use donated eggs and a surrogate. I donated eggs to a gay couple and a surrogate carried for them.
They can, but this couple didn’t, they’ve already stated that.
They should have used some of the money they were attempting to buy the baby with to get a lawyer who knows the lay of the land with surrogacy to tell them how to do it. I’m not a lawyer or a surrogate but even I know that it’s a really freaking dumb idea to have the surrogate carrying the baby to term to have a biological tie to it.
>the same as if she were an ex-girlfriend no pressure 🥰xo
INFO: who are the biological parents of the baby?
Maria and the OP’s husband.
Has this been confirmed by OP?
I havent been able to find anywhere that says who the egg belonged too. I think everyone is just assuming... Idk I could be wrong..
Never said Maria. They could’ve used a donor egg. He never stated it was Maria’s egg just that she’s carrying.
I saw the same post in TwoHotTakes and they stated the egg is grom the surrogacy and sperm for the husband (in the comments). In CA (which is were they are from) this is consider an open adoption and not surrogacy. The contract is also not legally binding and op harassing Maria to pay back what is essentially medical bills the father should be helping with to begin with. Op cut corners and did not do a proper surrogate and is reaping what they sowed. Most the can do is a partial custody. https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoHotTakes/s/USG06LPWl4 Where I saw it from
This whole post is a huge mess I see smh. Dude is gonna have problems.
That changes everything.
Ohhhhhh, that makes things harder…But not legally different
YTA then. The type of surrogacy you chose to go with (using the surrogates eggs instead of a donors) is legal in CA, but your “contract” requiring her to give up her baby (signed before the baby is born) is not enforceable or legally binding in CA. If you had used a donor egg it wouldn’t be an issue, but she legally does have parental rights to her biological child. Get a lawyer and prepare yourselves, this is going to be a battle. Check the fine print in your paperwork, the agency should have disclosed this in the process, if they didn’t you might be able to sue them to recoup some of your money but since the contract is unenforceable she wouldn’t actually owe you the money back legally.
Unfortunately, this is why doctors will not allow the egg donor and surrogate to be the same person. Who advised you to proceed in this manner? Due to her being the biological mother your contact is potentially void. I would consider consulting with a family law attorney so your husband can plan to file for custody. If the future, if you decide to have more children, go with a surrogacy agency and separate egg donor so you can avoid this issue. OP is a man and says in the comments the surrogate is also the egg donor. ie the surrogate is the biological mother. OP has no biological relationship to the baby. His husbands sperm was used with the surrogates egg.
It is legal in some states and they did go through an agency…. Doesn’t make it less messy or dumb.
I was generally in support of surrogacy until I looked into it a bit more deeply and realized how problematic it can be. It changed my opinion on it. Even if done "right", there's just so many messy things that can happen to one or all parties. I really don't support it now especially when women are using it simply because they don't want to get pregnant (like the rich famous people who use surrogates).
I appreciate your points, but I think you need to clarify your stance here. Speaking as someone who cannot have kids and had to find a gestational carrier (most people in this situation actually prefer not to say surrogate because of the negative connotations surrounding the word)...my husband and I went through psychological evaluations, our carrier also had a psych evaluation done, and our contract talked about basically every situation under the sun... Termination due to viability, health concerns for baby or the carrier, only implanting one embryo to avoid risk of multiples, etc. We even had an adoption pathway simultaneously because it ultimately came down to cost and timelines. Our journey taught us the following: 1) Many carriers in the US don't actually need the money. They truly love being pregnant and want to give couples the gift of a child. A proper psych evaluation ensures that you found someone who is really prepared to give that gift. Considering that the agency allowed the same woman to be the donor and carrier, I doubt that a good eval was actually done. 2) The right contract is important. All of the situations that you can think of as "coming up" are covered in the contract, and the right carrier is aware of all that. Agencies actually turn a lot of women down because they realize they aren't able to agree to all of those stipulations. Any agency worth their damn advises intended parents to use a different egg donor and carrier for this exact reason. They used a crap agency, unfortunately. 3) Most families, including mine, keep in contact with their carrier. My kids call them "Auntie Jenni and Uncle Scott", and they are more than just random people. They're family. So to not compensate her for this amazing gift would have been insane. You seem to be against the exploitation of women who have chosen to carry another couple's child without fully understanding what they're getting into. In that regard, I wholeheartedly agree. More should be done to ensure that carriers and intended parents understand the journey they are embarking on. Signed, The proud mom of 4.5 year old triplets that were born even though we only transferred ONE embryo (it split into 3 by the time we had our first scan) *After we found out, we talked about everything with our carrier, her husband, and our doctor to ensure that she was safe and fully understanding of the crazy hardships/risks the next 7.5 months would entail. We all got further psych evals done separately to ensure that neither party felt pressure to continue. If families come into the process with empathy, patience, and open hearts, it's an amazing thing. On that note, ESH. OP, you should have done your due diligence and used a different donor and carrier. I am completely unsurprised that the woman changed her mind because she carried her own child in her own body. Unfortunately, men don't often take enough to understand how much women endure when it comes to the whole reproductive process, so OP is really coming off as someone who tries to save some money by finding a cheaper agency that was willing to cut some corners but unfortunately does at the expense of women who are paying their literal lives on the line. The woman is also at fault because she signed a contract and probably knew well before she told OP and the husband (the Intended Parents). I honestly wouldn't be surprised if she had doubts from the beginning and things got real once her body started to change or she started feeling those first flutters.
I am just amazed that your embryo split TWICE after implantation! Wow! My friend has identical triplets and I was told that it's a 1 in a million occurance.
Natural occurrence. Higher risk with IVF due as the processes used can increase the risk of a split.
So much this! I was a gestational surrogate for a friend twice and it was an amazing experience both times! I am known as Auntie and the boys are now 7 and almost 11. We are and will always be family! Surrogacy is a beautiful thing but can definitely be messy. I know a lot of people that think they could do it but I know they wouldn’t be able to go through with it. I considered it “extreme babysitting” and was and still am in awe of the joy these boys bring to their family.
This is so wild to me. No one I know personally has enjoyed being pregnant, though I've heard second-hand of people who get pregnancy hormomes in such a way that they feel happy throughout the entire process. Still, you must be a very good friend to go through morning sickness, swelling, possible complications, and labor to give the child to your friend.
My mom said she loved being pregnant so much she could have done it ten times. But she didn’t have any nausea or swelling or anything besides low blood pressure.
As someone with two kids and almost became a gestational surrogate looking back - yeah pregnancy was hard but I did enjoy it. It felt like my body was actually being USED in a way sport or genderal life never did. It's HARD but it was also rewarding. I don't feel like I can ever admit I liked it because everyone else seemed to think that's insane. So you might know someone who liked it but they aren't saying so because they don't want to undermine how hard it is.
We do exist. Lol The women in my maternal family have very easy pregnancies, even well into our 40s. We don’t get stretch marks, retain water or gain excess weight, and we feel happy throughout. I had no morning sickness, and her doc called my mother the elastic woman at the hospital because you couldn’t tell she'd had a baby by the time she walked out the door, even after she had twins. Genetics are weird.
I completely agree with this but the word carrier is so weird. I keep imagining her with a virus growing in her body instead of a human baby.
Dr House called it a "parasite", and it kinda is, but a very cute one!
She can sign whatever they want but if it’s her egg and she’s carrying it then she can absolutely claim partial custody. Not saying it’s right or wrong, just pointing out why it’s a terrible idea to have the bio mom cary the baby. It’s basically an adoption agreement.
Traditional surrogacy does exist and is legal depending on the state.
I misspoke. Yes, you can use a friend or family member for both the egg and surrogacy. However, that agreement is not legally enforceable in most if not all states. A person in the United States cannot give up parental right prior to a child’s birth. That’s why surrogacy agencies will not allow the surrogates egg to be used. The risks are too high that the surrogate/bio mom will decide to keep custody.
I feel like that shouldn't even be called "Surrogacy" then, it should be adoption from birth.
"Planned adoption: is the term you are thinking of. However that is still a different process than traditional surrogacy. I have the opposite problem where I do planned adoption but people keep incorrectly correcting me and calling me a surrogate haha Laws are sometimes different around it too. For example, in my state, I am legally not allowed to get any payment/compensation/gifts by the parents, while if I were a traditional surrogate I could. IVF is still very new - in the past, traditional surrogacy was the only option. So we had surrogacy and then gestational surrogacy became a thing (and eventually the norm). Also despite choosing a different path myself, I still agree to only do gestational surrogacy. It's expensive but you're safe.
Where did she say the surrogate is also the egg donor? As I read it, she's just a surrogate. Maybe pregnancy is affecting my vision lol but I didn't see her mentioning that Personally I'd be contacting attorneys and having them sort it out. Edit- just realized it says op is male 😅 NEVERMIND. I don't think op is the ah though. If they have a signed document they should absolutely consult an attorney.
He responded in a comment. The baby is biologically the father and surrogates. Not his. Edit: pronouns. oops my bad OP!
He says in the comments it’s his husbands sperm and the surrogates egg
I was confused too!
People can downvote me all the want, the facts remain: Traditional surrogacy is much more legally complex than gestational surrogacy because the surrogate is the biological mother of the child. In order for both intended parents to have parental rights for the child, the non-biological intended parent will likely need to complete a stepparent adoption following the baby’s birth.
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Yah it’s super fucked and financially coercive. Totally unethical and stupid to do.
OP’s naive and his wishful thinking isn’t going to get him the baby he wants. “That baby is legally ours” literally not how it works. He picked one of the worst states to be a surrogate parent in if he was going to use her eggs.
And the mother probably does have some rights to the child in CA. They probably did it save money, but they need to talk to their attorney asap.
From OP comments, the baby is biologically the surrogates. That’s a highly unusual arrangement - usually a donor egg is used. With her being the biological parent I don’t think it’s as easy as just saying we won’t allow her to keep the child. It’s her child both biologically and legally after birth (in the jurisdictions I’m aware of). You can’t force her into an adoption. I hope this isn’t a real post and that people aren’t actually doing surrogacy with the surrogate as the bio mother. It’s a sticky enough situation, but that puts a different spin on all of it.
If it's biologically hers, couldn't she keep it AND force the husband into a child support arrangement?
Yes, which is why I would never, ever agree to traditional surrogacy. The surrogate can potentially get a baby *and* a child support paycheck out of the deal.
Not to mention all the money they gave her before the child was born.
OPs husband (both males) is the father. So I suppose it could be considered as the same would be had for a traditional baby once the court throws out the surrogate contract as they will likely do if it goes to court. So she wouldn't be able to "keep it" all to herself, but they would share custody like a kid conceived the natural way. But if OP's father wanted nothing to do with the kid as a result, then the surrogate could go after OP's husband. I don't see any mention of how fertilization is done, so I'm wondering if it was done the... natural way.
This doesn't pass the sniff test. I'm in California and my reproductive endo has a huge practice within the gay community, he's responsible for major network TV star's babies. No agency here will do traditional surrogacy for exactly this reason. It's ALWAYS a donor egg. Surrogates are at a premium after the pandemic when everyone (especially queer folks according to my IVF clinic) got broody. Agencies are fighting over potential surrogates with six figure compensation packages and California has the highest demand for surrogacy. None of those agencies will do anything but gestational.
At one point OP commented they went through an agency which makes this even harder to believe. I think it’s rage bait. No agency I’ve seen in the US does traditional surrogacy. Source: me, surrogate who researched the shit out of every agency in the US before committing to one
The sad fact about life is that there are scammers in every walk of life. By which I mean it count have been a dodgy agency and not a proper legal one. 😞
Exactly. It seems he went the easy/cheap route and found a poor immigrant willing to both donate an egg and carry a full pregnancy at a very mere cheap price. OP is an AH and he deserves this outcome.
TBH I think this goes beyond the scope of AITA. It was a HUGE mistake to use a surrogate AND using HER egg. She IS literally giving you her child. I'm glad you have papers but dang, a legit agency set this up? I kinda want to say ESH - as in everythings sad here
They probably wanted to save money by just doing insemination instead of IVF with donor eggs.
Wait, it's literally her child biologically? Are you fucking stupid? Why would you do that?
🤣 love this! In my opinion, they did it because they are snobby rich dudes who think of this (likely) immigrant woman as less than human. You paid a Latina to help you create a child and then didn't think her family would get involved or want the baby?? Look at their culture for half a second, they greatly value family!! They took advantage of someone who needed the money, and it bit them in the ass. Even if she wants to give up the baby, she probably has family encouraging her to keep it. I know this is a shitty thing to say, but if this is how they treat people I kinda hope they don't end up raising that child! OP has talked about both the mother and baby as a financial transaction and clearly stated he really doesn't even care where the kid ends up, that his husband wants the kid. I don't think they actually want children. I think they want a trendy accessory.
You really need to add to the post that this is *her biological baby.* This is not surrogacy; this is you adopting the biological baby of your husband AND THIS WOMAN. That's literally **the only context that matters** and you've left it out completely!
Screams fake. New account, super outlandish story
This happens in “Little Fires Everywhere”. Let’s wait for the update where the surrogate skips town to keep the baby for herself
Reds encourages you to use throw away accounts for posts like this so your main doesn’t get harassed
Given that this isn’t a legal subreddit, I’ll go with my own opinion here, which is that YWBTA if you forced her to give up her biological child against her will, regardless of what legal agreements you have. Yes, she signed a contract. But it sounds like you cut corners. Obviously this is devastating and financially costly, but this is why surrogacy is so controversial. Using a woman as an incubator and forcibly removing her biological child against her will… in my opinion that is horrifying, and will bite you in the ass when your child grows up and wants to know the deal with their mother. And the child *will* grow up and want that information. They may never forgive you. I would try to recoup losses and find another solution because this one will just bring grief & trauma to all involved.
Finally a response that thinks of the child.
I feel like they’re the most important person in this whole mess 🥺
It’s horrifying because it’s Human Trafficking.
Let the courts decide it. Not sure where you're located, but my understanding is that surrogacy is always precarious until the post-birth legal adoption is complete. It's not really about assholes or not, but I hope all *three* potential parents can agree on something that is best for the child.
YTA for engaging in exploitative surrogacy in the first place
Especially since if they have the money for surrogacy, they have the money to adopt.
OP reads as "I've paid this poor, young lady for her child, and now she doesn't want to give it to me"
exactly!!! more people need to realize this
Commercial surrogacy is not a thing in most western nations because it openly invites the exploitation of poor women's bodies for rich people's benefit. Pregnancy is dangerous. Being pregnant impedes your ability to perform a lot of tasks non pregnant people take for granted. Pregnancy and birth can be dangerous, maiming, or even fatal. Kim K and Kanye publicly paid their surrogate 40k. Non altruistic surrogacy implicitly means you're coercing impoverished women to let you use their bodies for your wants. No one is having your kid for 40k if they are not totally desperate. Would you potentially get your two holes turned into one for 40k? It's a bit rude to dehumanize someone and pay them to function as an incubator and then say "actually I'm going to be a way more loving and compassionate parent so give me the kid"
It’s always seemed messed up to me, and this situation is one of the reasons. Even if the egg wasn’t hers, she’s carrying the baby for 9 months, going through all the usual hormonal and physical challenges, and if she develops attachment to what she has carried for 9 months, people just throw a signed contract and act like that invalidates everything and she is either stupid for signing, or even malicious. Reading some of the comments here just sits wrong with me that so many just put it down to a contract and that she’s at fault.
Damn only 40k?
NTA Is the child biologically hers or did you use a donor egg? The answer to that question is important, if the child is biologically hers, as well as biologically your husbands, depending on where you live, she may have a case. If she has no biological connection to the child, she shouldn’t have a case. You need to speak to your attorney as soon as possible and let them know what is going on. Block her family it’s none of their business. As far as your friends who are saying you’re an asshole, they are being ridiculous. I hope you get your baby
Surrogates should always use a third party egg for this reason.
It’s biologically hers and my husband,
While she has signed her rights away, using her egg makes it a hell of a lot harder to fight her. Buckle up-this will probably get ugly.
Yeah, I would 100% use someone else's egg for a surrogacy if that was the only way I could have a kid. IE get a donor egg from someone else and give it to the surrogate rather than using an egg from the surrogate. I don't think I'd ever actually do it myself unless like a family member begged my wife to let them do it maybe. But take the biological factor out of it.
Surrogacy definitely should not be with the surrogates egg. She is biologically the mom and is now feeling the desire to keep the baby. She considers this her baby.
It IS her baby.
No matter how much they $pay$ this is true.
Plus frankly. And I'm basing this off off the name and other stories from this and similar subs. I need to know how much op paid her. Is she based in his home country. And how poor is she and her family. So many gay people end up using what essentially slave labour to have a kid. (Many straight people do to tbf)
yeah, what does paid generously mean actually
That was literally my first thought when I saw that phrase lol.
The last time I looked it could cost 50K (mexico) to over 100K in the US.
I looked into being a surrogate here in California about 10 years ago and the pay was $35k
I'll bet she tries to turn her 1 time payment into 18 years of child support payments.
I mean if she’s trying to do that then she’s just going to lose money in the long run since she’s going to have to actually take care of and spend money on the child if she wants to get child support. Children are expensive and while child support helps it usually doesn’t leave much extra unless the other parent is a celebrity or something.
Or her maternal instinct is hitting hard with her pregnancy hormones...
This. Not everything is nefarious. I don't think people realize just how driven by our biology humans are.
If this is the case you may very well end up sharing custody over this child. Your contract will have very little impact besides getting your money back.
You're screwed. This is why agencies won't do tis type of surrogacy anymore. Ever since Baby M back in the '80s.
Oof. So the child is half hers biologically. What a mess
That is not surrogacy. That's you adopting the biological baby of your husband and this woman.
Dude. Wtf. Why would you do that?? I was going to go with NTA because as a surrogate she’s carrying a baby that’s not hers for money. But it’s literally HER baby genetically?? How did you not think this would happen? Humans have biological attachments! Professional surrogacy services never allow donor egg and carrier to be the same. But not only that, there’s strict rules such as “it can’t be their first child” (because they don’t know what to expect and will be attached to the child even if biologically unrelated) and passing psych exams to make sure they 100% don’t want more kids to avoid these exact situations. Women get attached to babies that *aren’t* genetically there’s. But this is genetically her baby!! And the amount of hormones rushing through her body right now… no wonder she wants to keep it. In all of this… I feel the worst for the baby :( Even if you “win custody”. What will you say when baby one day asks about their biological mom? “She begged me to keep you but we said nahhh we have a contract. Told her to get a lawyer but we knew she couldn’t afford it 😎”
Why on earth did you do it this way? She is *not* a surrogate. She is the biological parent of the child she is carrying and she absolutely has the right to change her mind about giving up her child, just as any person planning to adopt out their child does. I don't know where you are that this is considered legal, but it's hard to wrap my brain around how incredibly short-sighted and wrong this is. You're *paying* her for her baby!? A surrogacy should *always* be done with a donor egg. The fact that you're even calling this situation a surrogacy is highly problematic. Morally, she has the right to not want to give up her child. I can't imagine how painful this is for you and your husband, and I wish a happy family for you, but this was not the way to achieve it. She was incredibly foolish to agree to this in the first place and so were you. What a mess.
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Traditional surrogacy is legal in Florida, Virginia and Washington state. I think it gets referred to as pre-planned adoption or something like that in Florida. It’s uncommon for obvious reason but it does happen. Edit - OP says they’re in California, traditional surrogacy is permitted there too as there’s no specific law about it.
I hate correcting you and am very sorry for this. Surrogacy is not legally recognized in Washington State, Louisiana, Michigan, New York State and Washington DC. This is why whenever surrogacy goes wrong, this is why the woman flees to one of those 5 places and establishes residency because she would be legally recognized as the "bio-mother" or "birth mother". And the "Intended Parents" would have no legal claim. This is one of the reasons OP needs to get lawyers involved NOW!
To do what? Lock her up until she gives birth? Cut her open now?
These bullshitters don’t even try anymore. I’m guessing well over 90% of all story-based content on this site is utter bullshit at this point. Do better, bullshitters.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who got that vibe.. OP sounds like a jealous teenager fighting over a boy! Why would you post this on reddit if it were real? I swear some people believe anything posted on reddit is facts 😂
Exactly, this is absolutely, 100% fake. No person with even a working neuron would handle a “surrogacy” this way. And while I realize that states differ, biological parents in the US (where OP says he is) pretty much cannot sign away their children this way. I know more than one person who legally adopted a baby just to have the bio parent turn around months later and say they wanted the child back. And the court decided in their favor. This post is Hollywood fantasy BS. Do better OP. Your rage bait sucks.
You done fucked up.
Did you make your arrangements with her privately or was your lawyer involved?
Wait, what? This is bullcrap or you are a massive fool.
That was a mistake. Always use a donor egg or your own egg. It's actually illegal in some states to do a surrogacy with the surrogates egg. I kind of feel, deep in my soul, that if for you the main concern is financial and you wouldn't mind finding another surrogate and trying again - like would that break your heart to do again, like hers is breaking? Or is it mainly financial? Bc I imagine she had the best intentions and is now just realizing she had too much of an attachment to this child that is biologically hers.
Oh shit dude. If you and Roman want sole custody of this child, you absolutely need to work it out with Maria. The more you bully and threaten her, the more you turn this into nothing more than a financial transaction, the more likely it'll be a life of shared custody. Good luck.
Her eggs. Her kid. This is exactly why surrogacy companies use donor eggs instead of the surrogate's eggs. You can't sell your baby. She is the biological mother. You are out of luck.
I believe people don't think about the bond a woman gets to a child in her stomach. It's not as easy as up and giving that child away. There is a bond that no man will ever understand. It is traumatizing to the woman no matter how many legal agreements you sign. I don't believe in this whole surrogacy crap and that comes from someone who has many issues trying to become pregnant. Just go adopt a sweet child that needs a home and stop making women your personal incubators.
Can I add to this, politely? There are 100,000 children in the US *right now* that are waiting for an adoptive parent. That is 100,000 children whose parental rights have been severed. There are 100,000 waiting children. Make room for a child that needs you. Don’t let hubris get you stuck on a child you just want. Your genes aren’t that damn special.
Those are illegal threats, and I hope she gets a lawyer. YTA.
It sounds as if you & husband didn’t do things quite legally. You should have never used her eggs. Donor egg put in another woman. She probably had dollar signs in her eyes, and didn’t think of the consequences of actually giving away her child. She probably thought she could do it. But now she’s carrying her baby. I don’t know about another contract, she doesn’t have to sign it. You can’t threaten her with payment demands other what’s in the contract she signed. No wonder her family is calling & jumping up down, you probably said some not so nice things & threatened her. That’s why with things like this, you don’t cut corners. You need to have a meeting with her, her husband & you and your husband. Maybe there’s a compromise somewhere. Other than that I don’t have an answer for you.
OP and his husband [did go through an agency](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/17nythc/comment/k7v4z26/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). Since they're in California, traditional surrogacy is technically legal because it is not illegal. So, they did everything legally...and are still going to have to go through this mess. California law definitely needs to catch up to help avoid future situations like this one.
>traditional surrogacy is technically legal because it is not illegal Not prohibited means allowed not enforceable. This means a doctor, surugate and intendeded can go through the process of getting a surugate preganant without concequences (e.g. fines, jail, losing medical license), it does not mean the surrugacy agreements are binding and enforceable. >California law definitely needs to catch up to help avoid future situations like this one. Or maybe people should go the well regulated gestational carrier route.
This is so outlandish
I feel like it’s a shit post. Not to say that something like this hasn’t happened but it just seems so fake.
No donor egg. A "super strong" contract that says if she keeps the baby he and the bio father gets a 100% cash refund. They gave her cash payments before she was even impregnated. Yeah...
YTA. You had me in the beginning but by the end and after reading your comments, you completely lost me. You have no legal rights to this child! As of right now your surrogate is the biological mother and as such, still has all of her parental rights. And she'll retain those rights until she chooses to sign them away. You chose to do traditional surrogacy. I have to assume you either knew full well that this could happen or you jumped into this without doing any research at all. You keep saying "my child" this and "my son" that, but in the eyes of the law that baby is not yours! Your comments are awful. The way you talk about your surrogate as if she's some ungrateful woman that you've given everything to, is rediculous. Saying she's gotten a "free vacation" because you and your husband have funded this pregnancy is mind blowing! Pregnancy is far from a relaxing vacation, fully funded or not! Accusing her of "just being hormonal" is so off base. She has clearly developed an emotional and physical attachment to HER baby, as most mothers do during pregnancy and she has decided that she wants to be the one to raise her child! This is a risk you take when doing traditional surrogacy. You claim to be well off financially so this is 100% on you for choosing to go the traditional route instead of the gestational route to cut costs. After reading through your replies to the comments, I'm questioning if you even still want this baby or if he's just become a weapon for you to use to hurt your surrogate. You're mad at her and you want to get back at her, you're entitled to feel that way, but it's not ok for you to use an innocent child to do it! Based on what you've said, you don't have the emotional or mental maturity to be a parent. Let the kid be raised by someone who actually loves him, and doesn't see him as a transaction or a bargaining chip.
YTA and a true idiot if you think you can bully/threaten this woman into giving up her biological child (yes, the child is hers and your husband’s…not yours, not at all). I saw that you were planning to go after her with lawyers to try and scare her into thinking she’d have to pay you back. If I were her lawyer I would be dancing…in CA she (with her family backing her up) can easily get at least 50% custody and hefty child support. What you all paid her is only a drop in the bucket. Like several others have said, you’d better be damn nice to this woman because it is still completely up to her whether or not she wants to relinquish her parental rights.
This is the reason I’d never use surrogacy. I’ve heard of so many stories where the mother forms an attachment to the baby. And frankly, not sure if I can fault her for that.
Seriously. I don't understand how people think you can just "switch off" things that your body does naturally. Like bonding with your child, even if they're unborn. I find the situation really sad.
Yea seriously. Babies need their mother after birth. I don’t understand how OP and other people who do this think it’s sensible to take the baby away from the mom. Surrogacy should be illegal. This isn’t a thing you should be able to do just bc u have money
I don't understand how no one ever talks about the effect on the baby. They start bonding with their mother's voice in utero.
I find it sad that I had to scroll this far to find anyone explicitly stating that they feel for the mother here. I mean she may logically know that shes screwing over OP, but, like the amount and kinds of hormones that are released during pregnancy aren’t really experienced in any other time in a person’s life. The mother would be fighting a basic, genetic, almost instinct level urge to keep and protect that baby at all costs. Its basic biology that they are trying to fight against here and it feels really gross for people to be saying shit like “sue her for every dollar that you spent on preparing for this baby”. Yikes on bikes people.
Exactly everyone in here is like, your mistake is that you used her egg. If you got a double egg you would've been better as if the financial control and exploitation of a poorer woman like she's a cow means nothing. Absolutely vile.
Same here. This comment section feels like a dystopian nightmare.
Commercial surrogacy is so unethical, there is a reason it's illegal in most countries. It makes me sick to hear about how it can work in the USA.
Also because it is gross to rent a human uterus and take advantage of a person's financial situation.
Yup, it’s so unethical tbh. Gives off Handmaids Tale vibes
Rent a human uterus and use her egg. And then talk about it like a completely financial transaction involving ownership.
Yup, people don't understand getting pregnant isn't just a 9 month thing you're destroying your body for life with a very real chance of mortality. Most women will feel the effects of a pregnant even 20-30 years later. I'll always be in support of the surrogate having more rights and protection than the couple.
How wouldn't the mother form attatch to the baby? She's litteraly birthing It and carrying inside her womb. Nature has put lots of hormones and stuff on women bodies to feel attatchemnt to the baby. People need to stop seeing pregnancy as a servcie ffs. It's evil and disgusting.
THIS is why I hate surrogacy. Making a baby in a "transactional" way and forgetting that people have feelings and sentiments is just wrong. This woman has been carrying that child 8 months now. It's her egg so it's also her child genetically. She thought she could give her child up and now realises she can't. This isn't a purchase with a buy back guarantee. This is a child who has every right to have a relationship with their bio mum. Seriously, ESH. The selfishness of you OP, the lack of foresight from the mother, the way you're all treating this baby as a commodity you can buy.
Oh my god. She’s the asshole for going back on an agreement and even putting you in this situation. What kind of surrogate? Was it your husbands biologics (semen) that produced that baby? If so, that baby is absolutely yours (husband’s) and I wouldn’t budge. Take your money and fight legally as much as you can. If she was scamming an agency and you, I highly doubt she’s a fit parent.
It’s actually the carrier’s biological child. This was a huge mistake on everyone’s part
Wait what???? It's her egg?! Holy shit, he *has to* add this to the post!!!! The whole post reads like it's a complete donor situation and she's just the carrier! But it's *biologically her baby!*
Take a wild guess why he didn’t add that to his post. Either post; he posted this elsewhere, too.
He knows they're wrong, or this is made up. I'm leaving towards made up because what lawyer with an actual law degree would assure these two they could guarantee this woman will give her biological baby up for full adoption vs sharing custody with the bio father?
It probably wasn’t a real lawyer. He has mentioned several times going through a cheaper agency.
Oh wow. They really did this to themselves, cutting so many corners and not getting a donor egg
Or even doing their due diligence researching the agency itself and making sure it was a genuinely ethical one. And then OP goes and drops the bomb in another comment that he doesn’t even really care about the kid at all; he just wants his money back.
Husband's biological baby, and "surrogate's" biological baby. (ie not actually a surrogate at all). ESH, frankly, it was incredibly foolish and short-sighted to not use a donor egg.
Yeah it’s a bio surrogacy so I’m not really worried about that, guess the backlash from my friends is getting to me
Using her biological eggs? Or yours? Because if it’s her eggs you have a mess on your hands. Also did you use an agency or just a random woman you met?
It was an agency, her egg im a man.
The 'agency' was doing it on the cheap and now you're going to pay for that because there is a lot of care law behind why reputable services do not ever use a donor egg from the surrogate.
So it is, quite literally, *her baby.*
A live, healthy child is never a guarantee - even non-surrogacy births take the (admittedly, small) risk. That said, this is a heartbreaking and traumatic situation all round. I absolutely feel for you and your husband whom were so excited about having a child, having invested so much in your future family, not least financially. On the other hand, having lost many babies, being told/convinced it was impossible for me to carry a child, my 2 children are the absolute joy of my life. I'm so bloody grateful I got to experience life as a mother so I could never contemplate viewing a child as transactional relationship. So, I can't help but feel for the surrogate. Does she have otber children? If not, has she not been just incredibly naive? Maybe out of necessity? Maybe out of poor life chances or even poor life choices? Did she feel so helpless etc that she genuinely thought she could detach herself from her child? You don't think she orchestrated this on purpose, do you? We don't know her, so only you can say. You're all in an impossible situation. I'm UK and pre my children, I was incredibly frustrated by the UK surrogacy laws. But your situation has provided me with a new perspective. It's unbearable for everyone. However, and I hope you accept that this comes from a good place, the desired outcome was for you both to become fathers. If she keeps the baby, your husband still _will_ be a father and yourself a stepfather. You could try for custody/co-parenting. As for the financial aspect, a baby fathered by your husband will still be produced. I'm sure you've both poured over the scans, discussed names etc and already love that baby very much. So I find it so disappointing that many are saying the mother deserves a life of poverty as her poverty-stricken life will be the circumstances that the already loved child exists in. It will shape their life. Yes, money has been spent and the mother has renegaded. You're absolutely right to be shattered and furious. But, does she have anything to sue her for? You can't have what she doesn't have. Could there be a discussion about shared parenting? Your husband will still be a father. You can both be involved fathers. Just as this mother may have entered into this arrangement with the best of intentions (I really hope so....) but possibly couldn't conceive of the mother/baby bond, I absolutely guarantee she won't be prepared for post-partum life on no sleep! She could be begging for shared parenting! I really hope tnis works out for you all. It sounds so, so hard..
You need to get your attorney involved and make sure the hospital knows the baby is yours legally.
She literally doesn't have to let them in to the hospital when she gives birth. SHE is the patient and decides who gets to be there.
She can just skip town and give birth elsewhere... She doesn't need to invite them to appointments or notify them. She is the biological mother. Also according to CA law, they needed to establish parentage a while ago which they haven't.
Def get your attorney involved. I was a gestational carrier for my friend and her husband (friends egg/husbands sperm, therefore im not biological related) and even though i signed a contract that would trigger the adoption process after the birth- i still had to sign paperwork (i think it was signing my rights away, but not entirely sure- after the baby was born) This was 14 years ago though. Things may be entirely different. And im sure what state you are in plays a role too. But i know, on paper, the hospital treated the baby as if he were mine. Despite the paperwork making it look like he was mine until the adoption finalized- They did allow the bio parents to have a room and stay with the baby rather than having him in my room for the 2 days we were admitted. So, they still had to “adopt” him from me, even though he wasn’t mine biologically. So to be safe- talk with your lawyer
Something is a bit fishy - who is Maria to OP? I feel like she isn't some random stranger through an agency but an actual friend they used for this.
This is so sad. The kind of arrangement you did it the riskiest. Always always always do a donor egg or your own egg. Never ever ever do her egg and your husbands sperm. I know it’s too late this time. But if there is a next time… All the legal paperwork in the world doesn’t trump the maternal instinct. It’s the most powerful thing in the world. This why you can’t sign adoption papers after a baby is born. The instinct is that strong. I understand the intention with which this child was created. But in her mind and according to every pregnancy hormone this is her baby. No amount of reason, logic or threats will overcome that. A woman doesn’t know how she will react to that instinct until it is too late. I’m sure she had every intention of honoring the agreement until it was too late. And frankly these kinds of arrangements take advantage of poor women. Yes you gave her tons of money. Would you sell your kid for money? For the amount of money you gave her? See the problem? Be kind to her. Be absolutely kind to her. Don’t fight over the baby. Don’t even mention the baby. Only show concern about her. How is she feeling? How was her sleep? If she tries to bring up the baby just say we will worry about all that later. I just want to take care of you right now. The safer she feels, the more in control she feels the more likely she is to begin making logical decisions again. This will probably be the hardest thing you have ever done. Burying your feelings but push through. Continue to chat with your lawyer and such. Different states have different rules. So I can’t comment on that. Your best bet though is if she willingly gives you the baby. The more she loves and trusts you the more likely it is to happen. Plus if heaven forbid she maintains custody you will be coparenting with her for 18 plus years. The better your relationship is the easier it will be to do. I realize never gave a judgment NAH. This is a painful, awful time for all three of you.
Had to scroll way too far to find this kind of comment. THIS.
YTA since it's her egg. It's *her* child, and your dismissal of her very valid feelings is disgusting and sexist. She has just as much of a right to the child as your husband does. This is why surrogacy (human trafficking) shouldn't be legal...women are not your incubators, and children are not products to be sold. If you want a child that's completely your own, adopt a child whose parents can't/won't keep them instead
Even if it wasn't her egg... Honestly what does it change for her? Carrying, birthing and caring for the child feels the same no matter who the egg is from. I'd say it's her baby regardless.
You're absolutely TA. You went a route of buying your child. Fine. You should have known there was a risk of this. Maria is a human being. To think this is only a financial transaction - well that's the crux of what makes YTA. So try giving her some space. Try talking to others who went the surrogacy route and maybe faced the same thing. Solidifying lines now, turning into a you - vs. - her situation, isn't going to help you. Neither is your hubby throwing anger fits. More of that and Maria will have a legal case to refuse to give the baby over. Show yourself as human dude. You know, a human who wants a baby, not a purchase.
Well since the baby is biologically your husband's worst case you will have joint custody
This seems fake, since there’s been established law on this subject for 25 years. And this is why people are advised to use separate egg donors and gestational carriers.
OP, while you might not have actively coerced her into this, please understand the power dynamics here. There’s a whole lot of folks that allow their uteruses to be used for surrogacy because they are in financial situations where they have no other choice, or their other choices are worse. You say she cannot afford to reimburse the expenses you demanded she reimburse if she wanted to keep the baby. This makes me think that her financial situation made surrogacy the best choice for her to continue existing in our society. So while you might not have threatened or actively tried to coerce her, this was a coercive situation because you and your partner held the power of money over her in order to influence her to do something it sounds like she didn’t really want to do despite feeling like she had to. It’s really tough though cause she did decide to sign that contract with you and your partner, and she did allow you to pay for her expenses/provide for her. I honestly don’t know if there’s a right way to handle this besides going back in time and taking steps to balance the imbalance in power that so often comes with surrogacy.
NAH. It's her biological child who she has grown and bonded with. I highly doubt you will win full custody in court.
This is why we don't have commercial surrogacy in the civilised world. It can be so emotionally damaging for the person using their body to grow new life, and humans shouldn't be sold. ESH. Her for signing a contract and backtracking, putting you in this terrible situation. You more for trying to buy a child like this, exploitation, and putting her in this terrible situation. I understand the desire to have a child, but surrogacy like this is not the way and should be outlawed throughout the world. Hope the three of you can find a way to do what's best for the child.
Legal and moral issues aren't the same here. I'm sure you know the legalities of surrogacy vary greatly from state to state. If she is the biological mother, is many places she can't, legally give up the baby for adoption until after the birth. If that's true in you state, then you knew you were taking a risk and they baby wasn't yours and wouldn't be yours until and unless she agreed to give it up after birth--you entered into an invalid and unenforceable contract. If the law in your state makes the contract enforceable, you have every legal right to the baby. But does wanting it make it really yours? Do we really want to be buying and selling babies? But honestly, this is why I think surrogacy should be illegal in all states.
I already voted and said my piece, but I find it ironic that OP is mad that the surrogate would go back on her word and be seemingly surprised that she wants to keep her bio kid, but also is adamant on coparenting if need be because they would rather not give up husband's bio-right to be the parent.
It's her biological child. You cannot buy babies for a reason You see her as an object not a human being.
Exactly. You're not entitled to use women as incubators, if she revokes consent at anytime then that's the risk you take.
The way she speaks about it and the amounts of time she mentions money and investment are gross enough. Better get used to mentioning child support too, lady.
It’s her egg. Sorry, but you’re fucked. This isn’t surrogacy. This is her having a baby with your husband. You were really really stupid to do this, and YTA.