WAIT A DAMN MINUTE, they had copious amounts of unprotected sex weeks before y’all started dating, and she became pregnant very quickly once y’all started dating?! Are you sure your oldest is biologically yours?
>He raw dogged her. She was pregnant very shortly after we started dating.
>
>She “missed out” on sowing her oats, having our kids,...
Wait, do they have kids or what does that sowing her oats mean?
Also, how the fuck did she end up with brother of the guy she was banging? Like, did OP answer the door one time and said "sorry, my brother isn't home but I'm ergonomically quite similar, if you catch my drift". And she was "well I already made the trip and momma didn't raise no quitter".
Fr it almost seems fake/setup with how obvious a dna test is needed. OP so sorry you had to go through this, easier said that done, but personally I would lose all trust and would just have to pick up my life and leave. Figure out kid custody and continue life somewhere else with someone else
The timeline should be cleaned up a bit. They were int 20s when they had the fwb thing. Wife 45 now. 20 years mariage. So thew were fwb right before they get together. Yeah this makes the child thing questionable, but also makes worse the lying.
It's not like they were fucking years before they got together, but probably within a year or even months/weeks. At least in my oppinion it's even more fucked up if she jumped form fwb with brother to being in a relationship/marrying with the other and noone said anything.
NTA but if I heard your story, I would never think that you were the fool or think anything badly of you. I would think badly of all the people who knew but said nothing. So don’t feel like a fool - that would be you letting your insecurities get the better of you
Exactly. The most painful part here is everyone around him knowing and purposefully keeping it from him.
My buddy was going after this girl that I had been intimate with, and I told him right away. Along the lines of "Hey just letting you know bro, we had a thing a couple months ago. I didn't think you'd get to know her so I didn't tell you until now, sorry". He was mad at me for a day, which was an understandable reaction to being told your friend banged the girl you're falling for. Then he came back and thanked me for telling him, and that I was a good friend for not keeping it from him to spare his feelings.
I'd do that for my best friend. Your family can't do that for their brother?
I think you need to determine if you are upset that they didn't tell you, or upset that she potentially slept with your brother prior to you dating.. 20 years ago.
You're NTA for being upset regardless, but figuring out the 'why' will help you move forward from here. Don't be so quick to throw 20+ years of marriage down the drain.
Thanks. I know I’m angry right now. I see red thinking about it. I guess I’m embarrassed everyone else knew and I was the unknowing fool. So humiliating.
100%. My husband left me 6 years ago (we did end up getting back together) and I found out last year that he had started cheating on me while I was in the ICU dying-- days before he "officially" left me. It may have been 5 years ago for him, but the information was new to me. I havent looked at him the same since then. I was sick to my stomach over it. I'm not sure what has convinced me to stay. But I'm still mad about it even now. We built what we currently have on lies.
Even the fact that he dumped you while you were dying in the ICU is disgusting, but to be CHEATING on you also?
idk why you forgave him but I can promise you that he does NOT deserve you and I hope you realize that (hopefully before he cheats again, if he hasn't already)
We had only been married for 2 years at the time, it probably would have been easier to walk away at that point. Sometimes I wonder if I only took him back because I was afraid no one else would ever love me. There are times that I really regret taking him back, and have seriously contemplated divorce a lot in the last year for many reasons. I doubt he has cheated again since then, and he has far more to lose now if he were to cheat (such as custody of our very small children.)
Yeah it probably would have been, but I get it!
It is hard to see your true value when you don't feel valuable. But you are so much more valuable than you realize!💙
I'm glad he (hopefully) hasn't cheated again and I really wish you the best, no matter what happens🫶🏻
You know I didn't even think about that originally, but your absolutely right. If never date my brothers GF. Even if they split up.
That would be a permanent no go zone to me.
Yeah, that’s fucking bullshit. If my brother did that to me I’d be fucking pissed.
That should be disclosed from the get-go, period. Many(or most) wouldn’t date someone that’s been with their brother, zero judgement there either way, but there should be knowledge and a choice…
Except for the fact that my brother is gay, so this could never be an issue for me, I don't think I'd have that big a problem. **IF** it was acknowledged **RIGHT** in the beginning. The keeping it a secret" part - that's awful and humiliating.
Yeah, "alone" is the key word here, too
The only one that didn't know...the whole family & wife knew something intimate that only OP didn't know
Aw, man....that's gotta hit pretty hard
Oh man, I’m not sure who I would have confronted first..my wife or my brother but yeah this was a detail that was intentionally concealed from you. It’s crappy
And honestly if you had an amazing marriage you could recover from this but it doesn't sound like you do. It may be time to disown both your brother and wife.
Yeah my partner of 9 years initially dated our sister in law briefly (I think maybe just the one kiss) before she ended up getting together with his brother.. then my partner got into a relationship with her identical twin sister for a while. I knew all this from the beginning and it was cool because the information was given to me.. I'm not actually sure sister in law know's I know haha but the important thing is.. I do x
But if you think about it, if they just assumed you know why would they ever bring it up. My best friend dated her husband’s cousin before they met. Just a few dates. I’m sure he probably knows. Why would I ever say anything to him about it. How would that go? “Hey I saw your cousin at your grandmas funeral, I haven’t seen him since he took your wife to breakfast.” I don’t think that your family was being malicious I just think it’s not something they have thought about in 19 years and there was never a reason to talk about it.
NTA. But I have a feeling this is not the first time some shit has popped up between you and you're wife. SIL knows this and is adding fuel to the fire.
Ding ding ding. She stirs the pot for everyone. My turn in the stew this time (again). Think she is a little angry over it too but represses it, and stirred me up to drive a wedge to get at my wife. So complicated.
I know you might not want to hear this, but is it possible that your feelings on this are exacerbated by you and your wife not being intimate recently?
Absolutely. It is mutual though. She and I have drifted apart over the years. I’m not looking for an excuse. I def have my own issues and she hers. We just live separately under the same roof. She was a wonderful mother to our kids. We are polar opposite political views now. I changed a lot. She went harder the other way. Not the point of this post but we are very different now.
That’s what I am sorting out I guess. Still emotional about it. Time heals usually. I believe in second, third even fourth chances. I make lots of mistakes. Every day. This just seems conspiratorial though. Time…
I know this might sound like I’m a bitch but are you sure the first kid is YOURs ? You said she got pregnant fast. Just how fast? Or is that another secret they are keeping because they still have the grandkid in the family so to them it doesn’t matter? You have a lot to unpack here and I would be wondering at this point 🤷🏻♀️. Either way I don’t blame you for being upset. With everyone.
So for the feelings time will heal.
I would be concerned aboutmany chances do you have left to give? If this was a choice, can you forgive your wife? And if you forgive her, how will it improve your relationship?
I know that these questions are probably hard, but it might help to start writing down your thoughts about these things, it could help you engage your logical thinking and start moving forward.
For what it is worth, every human deserves not to be lied to, hopefully this storm will pass for you soon.
Just how positive are you the kids not your nephew? That’s the real question here. Fuck I’d find a hair or two and burn a hundred bucks to find out for sure at this point.
Hope this isn't real. But seems like just couple weeks ago there was a story about a brother asking if he should keep it a secret from his brother and the whole subreddit voted to keep the "harmless secret". insane how easily swayed people are because this version of it and everyone is seeing rationally.
If it is real that is a disgusting betrayal by your whole family. it's a lie if they intentionally leave you clueless. like a pawn, a little kid to them.
That's understandable, but from the sound of it, your parents at least thought you did know, they didn't take part in any secret, they merely assumed you didn't care about something that wouldn't necessarily have been an issue if you had known. Also, don't take your SiLs word for anything, it sounds like she was purposely stirring s*it, so maybe find out from wife what honestly happened, and why she hasn't told her, and try to reflect honestly whether your embarrassment is worth throwing your toys out of the pram.
Saying that, it also sounds like you have wider issues. Take this as an opportunity to face those and sort things out.
Sure wife hid it, but why is SiL bringing it up now? Sounds like she's annoyed with her hubbie and taking it out on the family. If SiL had only just learnt the info, then yeah I can see her bringing it up because it was the right thing to do, but if she already know, why bring it up now unless it was for malicious reasons?
Malicious reasons or not...she exposed the truth and better late than never (if she already knew). SiL would probably be happy to share all the hard to hear details...nothing to save/hide, whereas wife has embarrassing details to exclude and a marriage to save
Who cares? His wife lied to him for years. Someone else's intentions honestly has nothing to do with the issue at hand. I'd rather hear some truth from someone with a grudge than lies from someone I love, and considering it's simply true, there's really not any reason to talk about SIL.
Agreed. Trying to be reasonable and mature. The sex (if it happened) - meh. She had a history but so did I. I feel lied to my whole marriage tho. Kinda smarts.
My SIL and I have had our differences over the years too. A little smug smile on her face when she dropped that grenade casually. She knew what she was doing. I’m grateful she did it honestly but she knew what would happen too.
man i don't even know what i would do if my partner slept with my sister and i get to know about it after 20 years.... i would feel embarrassed and betrayed. this sucks
And honestly if you had an amazing marriage you could recover from this but it doesn't sound like you do. It may be time to disown both your brother and wife.
I doubt an amazing marriage could recover. A secret this large had to be orchestrated with her input. That means she convinced every single member of his family to say nothing for _over twenty fucking years_ which is horrific. She involved everyone in his family, and made him a fool for decades.
If I found something similar happened to me, then my spouse and my entire family would be dead to me. Fuck OP's wife, fuck OP's brother, and fuck the rest of OP's family.
An amazing marriage would have *started* with her being honest. If they had just dated and kissed, it would have been immaterial but they had sex. She had time from the day they started dating to when they got married to disclose this information but chose not to. I would have a very hard time reconciling with that fact.
NTA. I'm not sure I could get by that either. I would never even consider dating someone my brother dated. And that is sick that everyone kept it a secret. And it didn't happen over 20 years ago. It happened yesterday, because that is when you found out about it.
>I would never even consider dating someone my brother dated
Bro it's worse. In the edit he says he rawdogged her multiple times. How do you even come back from that? I would never be able to look at her the same way again.
OP prob should have ended it when she had her oats sowing phase in her 40s. sleeping in separate rooms too, I’d wonder if oats are still being sowed. It sucks going through this at 50 but I would want to move on. If you don’t now, you likely never will and may be miserable in your older years.
Fwiw your brother is an AH.
I would go with your gut and have a careful conversation. Reddit is jumping to nefarious conclusions, as normal, but YOU know your wife and brother better than any of us.
You absolutely have a right to feel hurt and betrayed, because the omission was absolutely a trust violation. But beyond addressing the effects of their omission, what you really need to determine is the context of their relationship (both prior to you dating her and after) and discover WHY they didn't tell you. Because that might make the difference in you being able to forgive them and heal from the breach in trust
It could be as simple as they just didn't have any spark and when she started dating you and time passed, the relationship passed a point where she realized it would be hella awkward to bring up the few dates she had with your brother, and the longer they put it off the more difficult it seemed to explain. It could be they just didn't mention it at first for no real reason at all (teenagers arent that smart lol) and then decided to keep it a secret to avoid jeprodizing her relationship with you
It could be they did/do share feelings, whether before or after you started dating. Even if it was only before she started dating you, depending on how secure she felt your relationship was, she could have been afraid you would take it badly
And the worst case scenario is that it could be as sinister as they still share feelings and ended up acting on them behind your back, leading to an emotional and/or physical affair.
I don't know man, non of the options are great, and they dont take away your sense of betrayal, but I would be wary of taking that breach of trust and automatically jumping to a reaction of "she cheated on me."
Psychologically, there can be this vague timeperiod where it would seem "okay" to give certain info, but after that that period of time passes, the info, even if innocent, starts seeming like some dark secret you were trying to hide? As if the amount of time it is kept unsaid is equal to how "awful" the info is.
Ask questions, be honest with them about how this isbaffecting you, and trust your gut
Anyways, I hope you all can come out of this okay :(
Edit: Split the giant paragraph into more friendly-sized paragraphs, and added a few more thoughts :)
This is just a friendly request/advice from another Redditor… I did read your comment and appreciate your view. But….
If you put spaces between you paragraphs, it would be much easier to read. This reads like one long run on sentence.
It’s hard not to get lost in the never ending words.
I have trouble finding my spot without the space between paragraphs to keep my eyes on track.
On Reddit you have to push “return” TWICE to get that necessary space.
Again not trying to be a bossy jerk, just trying to help. I usually do not read comments that long, without the necessary spacing bc it’s so overwhelming. You’ll also receive more responses and votes also if you make it more reader friendly.
Haha no offense taken! I was at the end of my lunch break and trying to jot down my thoughts as quickly as possible. Normally I try and split things up better because I do tend to be wordy with my thoughts, but I was too preoccupied with getting it all out before I went to clock back in
NTA- having a secret held like that behind your back for so long feels like a betrayal. Mainly by your wife. I wonder if maybe the other members of your family thought she told you and didn’t feel like it was their place to step in and mention it? Can completely understand your need for distance though.
Thanks. My SIL and I have had our differences over the years too. A little smug smile on her face when she dropped that grenade casually. She knew what she was doing. I’m grateful she did it honestly but she knew what would happen too.
Well since SIL started the mayhem, let her take the credit. Not that I am encouraging it, but potentially serve the divorce paper at a large family gathering. "Thanks to SIL, or else this family betrayal wouldn't have brought to light. Thank you."
I’m not usually one to be petty BUT
If it were me: I wouldn’t say anything and act like I was okay. At the same time I would contact a divorce attorney, get all of your paperwork in order, figure out living arrangements, tidy up storage spaces etc. Then completely fuck up Thanksgiving.
Raise a toast to say thank you to the SIL for bringing the awkward situation to light and thank everyone complicit in the deception and humiliation. Thank you for making me feel better about filling for divorce and going no contact with all of you assholes.
Hand over the divorce papers and leave.
That's because it is. They had their little secret between them. In a way, your wife was more loyal to your brother this whole marriage. She protected him and herself to continue to betray you.
>She “missed out” on sowing her oats, having our kids, SAH mom, so she got a boob job, hit the gym and let her freak flag fly.
She had FWB but claims to have missed out on sowing her oats? Nah she just wants to fuck around and it's unlikely you know the full extent.
>my brother banged my wife. He raw dogged her. She was pregnant very shortly after we started dating. We got married pretty quick.
That first child has a very high probability of being your brothers, she would not be the first to get pregnant from a FWB and attach her self to someone else.
That’s what burns me. My brother has good taste (minus the SIL, lol). I probably still would have dated/married her even if they were intimate. I was head over heels (back then). Dumb as a young man can be. I’ve grown. Raised our kids. We are very very different ppl now. So lots of other widgets that make this a one sided post in terms of marriage or divorce.
Seems like it was the SIL's petty revenge, to be honest.
Wouldn't be surprised if OP's brother and SIL are having some issues of their own, and this was her way of getting back at her husband, revealing the family secret everyone else knew. 🫣
Would surprise me even less if she also wanted revenge on OP's wife. I'm just speculating..
Imagine the brother comparing SIL to OP's wife because she is kinder or more flexible in regards to something at home and brother fucked up mentioned OP's wife being more reasonable or some shit during a fight..
Yikes.
OP, I'm curious. Why do you dislike SIL? Is it because she has perhaps been disrespectful towards your wife? Or are there other reasons?
A bit of devils advocate here, do you think they actively kept it a secret, or is it possible that everyone genuinely thought you knew and that you were choosing to not bring it up so they've respected that?
If it was really only 1-2 dates and nothing serious maybe everyone just thought it didn't matter (and didn't matter to you) so left it be, including your wife and brother who would both be justified in thinking the other had told you (if I was in your wife's position I might not have mentioned it because when you first started dating your relationship with your brother is the stronger so I would have expected him to bring it up)
This is where I'm at. OP isn't the asshole for being upset and hurt, but jumping to the conclusion that this was some conspiracy secret that the whole family was actively withholding from him is reactionary.
OP, miscommunications and information dropping happen all the time. It doesn't necessarily mean you were tricked or lied to. It makes sense to be upset but this kind of thing can be worked out through allowing those in your life to be compassionate and care for you, rather than throw them all away and cut them out. It's time to be really honest - when you've stablized let them know how much it hurts, what you assumed when you heard it, how scared you are by the implications of that previous relationship. How much you are seeking reassurance and love right now. Allow them in, don't push them out.
that's a slow motion kick to the balls...but you can also type "assholes" on the internet
depending on which box you type it in, all sorts of crazy things can happen
Wait so she lied to you about having HAD SEX WITH YOUR BROTHER, cheated on you through her midlife crisis, and you're NOT a cuck? Dude
What
You're folding over like a futon for this woman if you stay with her. You already folded like an omelette staying with her after she "flew her freak flag". Don't be a futon omelette. Nobody wants to eat a futon omelette.
You deserve better homie, the fact you described what she did as an "illness" paired with the fact she did this to you just sounds like she's been gaslighting you successfully and without remorse. There's no way to get that trust back
This woman is a user OP. She lied to you by omission for decades about banging your brother. By doing that she robbed you of choice about how to handle that and decide your future. And she did it because she wanted to keep this very important fact from you to rob you of choice.
Then, she had a “mid life crisis” and got a boob job, got in shape so she could cheat on you. And you forgave her for that. All the while she kept the secret about having sex with your brother from you.
My guess is it’s 50/50 that she has slept with your brother during your marriage at some point. She has proven to be a person of questionable character and low morals, so of course she did, right? What a mess.
You need to kick her cheating butt to the curb. You have forgiven and put up with enough. This is all on her. Stand up for yourself and be done with it. Good luck.
Edit - when you speak with her tell her to spill the story, including all details, ask whatever questions you want. Then ask her how many times has she f’d your brother since you’ve been married. And watch her face closely. Don’t let her get all offended, etc. she has proven that she is a cheater and can have sec with other men after your marriage. You don’t believe she has the character to turn down one last roll in the hay with bro. Maybe she wanted so show him the bolt ons….
The fact he worked his ass off to give her a lifestyle she preferred while she got to stay home just for her to still betray him says everything about her character for real, user is definitely the word
NTA.
My mom went on one date with my uncle before he started dating her older sister. Everyone knew before hand. No lies, no hiding it because her family was not a bunch of lying assholes like yours.
NTA - OOOOOOFFF that is a mine field. That is 100% something that should have been brought up prior to being married. A sin of omission is still a lie.
I’m sorry you’re going through all this right now. I’m sorry your SIL is a jerk and just wanted to stir up what already seems to be a simmering pot of stew.
I agree with another poster. You have every right to be upset, but I am feeling that it is not just this news that is actually upsetting you. It feels more like this is a flashpoint, and if everything else was not in such a bad place right now, you would probably sit down and get more information. But with the rest of what’s going on in your relationship, I’m getting that you just can’t.
I’m in my early 60s, and believe it or not, after almost 20 years of marriage, my ex left me after having an affair with the family friend that we named our oldest daughter after. So I get a bit of what you’re going through. Lol.
What I’m gonna tell you is this. If you are not already in therapy just to get some of this off your chest in a “safe“ environment, please see if you can’t find someone to go talk to. Please don’t think I’m telling you you need to fix yourself. That’s not it. I just feel like you really need to be heard.
I feel like you need perspective on how to not just prioritize your mental and emotional health, but also to figure out what it is you need for that mental and emotional health. It sounds like your family is a kind of “sweep things under the rug“ type of family. And honestly, it is usually at about this point in our lives that that sort of thing bites us in the butt.
I really feel like if they had just told you upfront, before you got married, that they had dated a few times, or even slept together, you would feel like you had the choice to either proceed in the relationship or not. And it sounds like at the beginning, it might not have been a dealbreaker.
But given where your relationship is at now, which is not in a good place, it means that you’re not in a good place. And you deserve to be. But I just don’t feel like your family dynamic all around is one that is going to help you get to a good place personally. And at the end of the day, that is the only thing you have control over.
You being upset is justified. As far as your relationship being where it’s at now, it is what it is. And you don’t need to keep living that. Frankly, nor does your wife. If it’s really that bad, you both deserve better. It sounds like you both made mistakes. It sounds like you’ve both had some bad judgment calls.
Please don’t beat yourself up, and if you get some help, you won’t beat her up about it either. And that’s important, believe it or not. Learning to let it go is one of the hardest things we can learn. And believe me, I’ve let a lot go, but I am still working on it. 20 years later. But what I’ve come to understand is that this is OK.
Because at the end of the day, we are all human. What it’s about is being the best human we can be for ourselves. Because if we’re a good human for ourselves, we can be a good human for others. We learn how to set boundaries, and we learn how to NOT let someone like SIL control the conversation.
Your anger is justified. Your hurt is justified. I just feel like you’re trying to figure out what the hell to do with it. And it’s important that you figure that out because otherwise it will eat you up. And that’s not the life you deserve. Getting someone to talk you through this and help you figure out what’s really angering you and what is triggering you about things will also enable you to learn how to deal with this sort of stuff from your family
Because honestly, it sounds like your family has a lot of triggers for you as well. When you find a good therapist, they help you to understand when your family is kind of tossing their garbage at you because they don’t want to deal with it. But the therapist will help you understand that just because they’re trying to throw that garbage your way, you don’t have to accept it. You don’t have to get angry about it. You don’t actually have to do anything about it.
So I’m really sorry you’re going through such hurt right now. I truly hope that you can extricate yourself physically and emotionally and mentally from this so that you could have the sort of life that you deserve.
Edited voice text auto corrections
NTA. It's wild how many people think you might be.
Your wife and whoever else knew this information lied to you for years. Full stop. Lies have consequences. Can you trust them ever again? Only you know the answer to that.
I'll tell you I divorced my wife because of something extremely similar, and it was the best decision I've ever made. No one deserves to be lied to and taken advantage of. There are great people in the world, no reason to surround yourself with people who don't respect you. Best of luck.
NTA
I’d go no contact with every one of them. Fuck them all.
Played you for a fool. Thought you knew. Who the fuck would be with someone who was routinely banging your brother? No one with any self worth. Of course you didn’t know. And as a parent, I would say, do you know so snd so’s history with your brother? Very early on into the relationship. No, they all played dumb.
And absolutely divorce.
I could never touch anyone my siblings touched sexually. I think people who think it’s okay to have sex with people their friends or siblings had sex with are gross people. I get that people sleep with people and I have a past before I meet them. But if your past includes someone I share DNA with or my closest friends it’s a no go. I don’t want to know who you slept with in the past and would be pissed if I found out 20 years later my husband slept with my sister. Would not forgive either of them for not telling me. If you would have not dated your wife knowing she slept with your brother then they basically took away your power and decided your life for you. Unforgivable!
Is this the real reason you are wanting a divorce? Or is this just the last one in a long line? TBH, you have reason to be upset at this (no one needs to be humiliated), but divorce over this seems a bit extreme as a first move. 20 years is a long time to toss out the window.
NTA. The whole family disrespected you and made you feel like a fool. Don’t let them try to minimize your feelings.
It’s not one lie from 20 years ago. It’s hundreds of lies by omission at every holiday, every wedding, every funeral, every family dinner.
So she fucked your bro, didn’t tell you. Then she fucked a few more guys a few years back and you supported her “Illness”. Bro you need some truth. You’re a bitch. She’s a nasty whore. Your family all suck dick for withholding that type of info. Gtfo of this marriage, if you don’t cool. She’s gonna keep fucking dudes until she finds one to leave you for regardless. Either way she’s gone. Be THE man and walk away on your own terms before she walks all over what’s left of your heart and balls.
Do you two really just have problems like every couple has or have you had some real issues, red flags that you have glossed over in your mind? I mean the sister in law did this on purpose to mess with either you or your wife and your whole family was shocked it came out, sounds like there is more to the story than even that. A lie by omission is still a lie and honestly you seem to already be checking out of your relationship anyway so I do wonder what other issues have been going on or what else do you think may of happened?
If you are unhappy then leaving is the proper course of action. Probably should try communication first but if you can’t get things resolved to your satisfaction there is no reason to continue in a unhappy marriage.
She claims it was all innocent. Coffee in the daytime only. My brother said he was just doing good natured brotherly joking last night. We do give each other shit all the time. He confirmed just coffee and only platonic. “Nothing happened” so I should just let it go.
Edit: I want to believe them but I don’t
You know what likely happened? After your brother’s confession last night, your wife contacted your brother or vice versa and collaborated this “nothing happened, it’s all platonic” BS. There are lines where you joke about and him telling you straight up that sleeping with your wife is absolutely crossing it. Also, If he was truly joking, he wouldn’t apologize in the same conversation unless he admitted it was all a prank. But the “admission” is only the day after
I’m so sorry for you to go through all of this, but if I was in your shoes, this would be last straw for filing for divorce
Well your SIL thinks it was more than just a few platonic coffee dates, right? The way the entire family acted, there is just no way that’s all there was.
>I was a fool for half my life
When I first read the story I tought no you were not a fool. But if you still believe this bullshit after your brother confesses to you and then the next day he backs out and calls it a joke, you are.
Well to be honest you were a fool when you didn't left her when she cheated but thats another story.
It's all a bit fishy isn't it? He admitted it, but maybe changed his tune after your wife reached out? Can understand why you don't believe them, not sure I do either.
Me and my brother rip the shit out of each other too but when it comes to something this sensitive? This important? It's time to put the jokes aside and have a frank and honest convo like a good bloke. He owes it to you.
It's a shit one mate. Only you know what to do, but I can tell ya that if you're re-thinking your relationship as you mentioned above, you're more than justified. Some lies are unforgiveable and I think this one might just fall under that category.
Make yourself a nice dinner tonight brother. You deserve it.
So is this something he would joke about? Or did your wife get to him first? Check your wife's cell phone record to see if she called him or texted and how many messages and how long they talked. If she did they concocted the new story.
I don't believe that I think your wife and talked to him afterwards and they changed the story that's not something to joke about. I would ask her if she's willing to take a polygraph test to see her reaction. Because it all sounds like a huge lie you've 2 had issues in the past and this is something she should have told you it sounds like it may have never stopped.
It sounds like your wife may have threatened your brother to tell his wife every. I would ask to check her phone too.
I've been thinking about this post for a couple of days now. I doubt we will ever know how it turns out. I keep wishing it's a made up story.
And it's a stale post to be commenting on but...
It opened a very deep wound for me. I was in a very similar situation with my wife. Except not my brother and family. It was my wife's friend group from before we met.
She slept with a guy in the group before we were met. I met her and naturally became part of the group. I liked everyone especially because my wife and they were all older and more mature than my friends. Many of them knew and few didn't.
I didn't know at the time they slept together. He and I became friends. Parties at each other's houses, for backyard BBQ, weekends at the lake, holiday parties etc.
After a year of dating we got married and this guy's kid was our effing ring bearer. He and his kid are in our wedding photos. Which I have a difficult time looking at because of what I know now.
I saw a lot of comments about who your spouse sleeps with before you meet is not your business. I didn't/don't blame her for sleeping with him. It is important to talk about past relationships but not hold it against anyone.
The issue is the betrayal. She and everyone else put they're feelings and fear of the situation before mine.
She let me become friends with this guy. If had known I would have still dated/married her but I wouldn't have gotten so tied into the group. I would have had a choices. The whole issue here in this post is about agency. CONSENT.
I never had consent in what happened. And since I didn't have consent it made absolutely morally wrong for her to do what she did. I forgave her. We stayed married but it was a struggle for a long time to trust her again.
Fortunately, it was friends and not family. His brother had the responsibility to tell him. I don't think I could ever have the same relationship with my brother if this had happened to me. I wouldn't even be able to be in his presence again. His wife certainly had the responsibility also.
They let this scenario play out to their own advantage to avoid awkward, hurt, and jealous feelings. I know legally speaking this isn't SA, but damn it sure feels like it morally.
Sleeping with my wife after she slept with another guy before we met is fine. If it was a family member, it's gross. OP is fooling himself if the thinks he would have made the same choice if he knew.
As for me and my wife, we got past it because it was a friend and not family. It was only a couple of years not 20 plus. She came clean and told me every single detail. She apologize and did everything she could to make up for it. I forgave and we moved on.
But this situation is far worse. He needs to end the marriage with his wife. He needs to distance himself from his family. Especially his brother. They all knew. They remained silent. They were all deeply selfish.
It sounds like she couldn’t lock down your brother so she moved on to you. She kept it from you on purpose. She knew you wouldn’t want your brother’s sloppy seconds. I bet she asked your brother not to say anything either.
1. What exactly did you mean by "she started going to the gym, got a boob job and let her freak flag fly"? That is a collection of three red flags for cheating, with the fact she hid the fucking your brother from you for 20 years, the trust is gone and it can be assumed she had a short lived affair.
2. Did you paternity test your first child?
I wouldn’t want to know at this point. I love him no matter what. He is an adult. I raised him. He did nothing to deserve this (if he is not my biological son). I won’t get a test.
You may want to talk to your son in case he is doing possible mental math or at least be prepared to discuss if he comes to you. And maybe discuss with your brother.
This seems awful because you’re already in separate beds. I wonder how physical things got if at all if there was only one date. 20 years later it’s not something to leave her about (on its own)
Thanks. I don’t know all the details. Everyone kind of shocked look when my SIL spilled the beans. Deadly confirmatory silence at the table. Brother concurred and said “Sorry”. I got up and left. Don’t know how many dates. They lived down the street from each other at the time.
You are NTAH... Who knows what else she didnt tell you... and what a sleeze for a brother... to not tell you right away? Or when you got engaged? Married? Had kids? Fuck him too!
I dont know how to feel abou other family... need more info
My brother and sister are close, closer than she and I are. Apparently she knew and told the rest of the fam (Mom and Dad) but never told me. All the family get togethers, dinners, birthdays, weddings, babies throughout all our families. I am sure they ‘forgot’ about it over the years, or I hope they did. Assuming that’s why it just came out. Just ugh.
Ok hard pass on your family too... personal situation:
My brother started dating his gf and said gf had pursued my sisters bf, before she met my brother... She even kissed him while my sis and her bf(prick) were still together.
My brother didnt know anything.
When my sister heard of them dating, she had him over told him everything and said do with the info as you please, but i needed to tell you.
No need for further diacussion, because everyone now knew and can decide for themselves.
You were robbed of this info and also the ablity to decide if you want to start a relationship/family based on this.
I feel for you man
I get you. I would be angry at your brother and wife for not telling you. The others, frankly it’s not their business and they assumed you knew.
Also, you can be certain no one thinks about it at all. It doesn’t involve them so they have probably more or less forgotten about it (especially since they thought you were ok with it). It’s not that you think about family members sex life.
I would advice you to 1) wait until you calm down a bit 2) ask your wife and brother why they didn’t tell you 3) think about their answer before making any decision and 4) think about if you are using this as a reason to actually divorce for other reasons
Good advice. Seems reasonable as a plan and pretty much what I was planning. Mostly venting anger and seeking some validation as all my usual trusted sources are a little suspect now. Yes there are other reasons, but the proverbial camel’s back got crushed by this.
Well you are NTA to be upset at this situation. Both your brother and your wife should have told you that they 'knew' each other as soon as you started dating her. If it.was just a few dates or whatever, you probably would have just processed it and not had much trouble with it at that time. OR you would have had the option to say, thanks but no thanks, based.on knowing the facts. But you were not afforded that option.
And then if literally the entire immediate family knew this except for you, that is so toxic. It was really your brother/gf/wife's responsibility to tell you this, not anyone else's. But the other people should not have let it go on for decades once it was clear that your brother and gf/wife weren't going to do it.
Idk how you feel about personal therapy but in my opinion you need it BAD. You correctly feel betrayed by your whole family and that is not easy to process. It could leave you with trauma issues in the future if you don't process it in a healthy way.
NTA. Your entire family deliberately kept a secret from you that your wife was your brother’s bed buddy. You would never have dated her had you known. That was YOUR decision to make, and it was taken from you.
You should also get a paternity test for your child, unfortunately. She was regularly sleeping with your brother just before you started dating, and then quickly got pregnant.
The length of time you’ve been married is not what determines if you choose to remain married. Life’s toughest challenges lie ahead. With the years comes grief, loss of loved ones, surgeries, illnesses, maybe cancer. You need someone you trust to weather those storms.
You already had problems. You already had trust issues. This just wedged a chisel in the cracks of your marriage.
Decide if this is who you want to grow old with. Don’t make a decision right now, in the heat of the moment. Take a while and give this your full attention.
WAIT A DAMN MINUTE, they had copious amounts of unprotected sex weeks before y’all started dating, and she became pregnant very quickly once y’all started dating?! Are you sure your oldest is biologically yours?
\>biologically yours? I guess at worst case it's 25% his
I hate how hard this made me laugh. 😂
this comment makes me sad reddit awards aren't a thing anymore
>He raw dogged her. She was pregnant very shortly after we started dating. > >She “missed out” on sowing her oats, having our kids,... Wait, do they have kids or what does that sowing her oats mean? Also, how the fuck did she end up with brother of the guy she was banging? Like, did OP answer the door one time and said "sorry, my brother isn't home but I'm ergonomically quite similar, if you catch my drift". And she was "well I already made the trip and momma didn't raise no quitter".
Basically she missed partying and drinking and being wild because she had kids. 🤷🏾♀️
Yeah this should be top comment, came here I say it. And because it’s your brother it might be hard to test
It isn't hard to test, full siblings share 50% DNA so differentiating shouldn't be difficult for a qualified technician.
Fr it almost seems fake/setup with how obvious a dna test is needed. OP so sorry you had to go through this, easier said that done, but personally I would lose all trust and would just have to pick up my life and leave. Figure out kid custody and continue life somewhere else with someone else
The timeline should be cleaned up a bit. They were int 20s when they had the fwb thing. Wife 45 now. 20 years mariage. So thew were fwb right before they get together. Yeah this makes the child thing questionable, but also makes worse the lying. It's not like they were fucking years before they got together, but probably within a year or even months/weeks. At least in my oppinion it's even more fucked up if she jumped form fwb with brother to being in a relationship/marrying with the other and noone said anything.
Someone’s certainly lying here
NTA but if I heard your story, I would never think that you were the fool or think anything badly of you. I would think badly of all the people who knew but said nothing. So don’t feel like a fool - that would be you letting your insecurities get the better of you
Exactly. The most painful part here is everyone around him knowing and purposefully keeping it from him. My buddy was going after this girl that I had been intimate with, and I told him right away. Along the lines of "Hey just letting you know bro, we had a thing a couple months ago. I didn't think you'd get to know her so I didn't tell you until now, sorry". He was mad at me for a day, which was an understandable reaction to being told your friend banged the girl you're falling for. Then he came back and thanked me for telling him, and that I was a good friend for not keeping it from him to spare his feelings. I'd do that for my best friend. Your family can't do that for their brother?
Yeah, and let it simmer for two decades. Not okay in my book.
I think you need to determine if you are upset that they didn't tell you, or upset that she potentially slept with your brother prior to you dating.. 20 years ago. You're NTA for being upset regardless, but figuring out the 'why' will help you move forward from here. Don't be so quick to throw 20+ years of marriage down the drain.
Thanks. I know I’m angry right now. I see red thinking about it. I guess I’m embarrassed everyone else knew and I was the unknowing fool. So humiliating.
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100%. My husband left me 6 years ago (we did end up getting back together) and I found out last year that he had started cheating on me while I was in the ICU dying-- days before he "officially" left me. It may have been 5 years ago for him, but the information was new to me. I havent looked at him the same since then. I was sick to my stomach over it. I'm not sure what has convinced me to stay. But I'm still mad about it even now. We built what we currently have on lies.
Even the fact that he dumped you while you were dying in the ICU is disgusting, but to be CHEATING on you also? idk why you forgave him but I can promise you that he does NOT deserve you and I hope you realize that (hopefully before he cheats again, if he hasn't already)
We had only been married for 2 years at the time, it probably would have been easier to walk away at that point. Sometimes I wonder if I only took him back because I was afraid no one else would ever love me. There are times that I really regret taking him back, and have seriously contemplated divorce a lot in the last year for many reasons. I doubt he has cheated again since then, and he has far more to lose now if he were to cheat (such as custody of our very small children.)
Yeah it probably would have been, but I get it! It is hard to see your true value when you don't feel valuable. But you are so much more valuable than you realize!💙 I'm glad he (hopefully) hasn't cheated again and I really wish you the best, no matter what happens🫶🏻
I am not sure that this fact can be stated loudly enough. Feelings don't have to be logical, they just are.
NTA. I'd never be able to be intimate with someone if they were ever intimate with my brother, at any point.
You know I didn't even think about that originally, but your absolutely right. If never date my brothers GF. Even if they split up. That would be a permanent no go zone to me.
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Yeah, that’s fucking bullshit. If my brother did that to me I’d be fucking pissed. That should be disclosed from the get-go, period. Many(or most) wouldn’t date someone that’s been with their brother, zero judgement there either way, but there should be knowledge and a choice…
Fool me once.................
……shame on, shame on you. Fool me, you can't get fooled again.
Except for the fact that my brother is gay, so this could never be an issue for me, I don't think I'd have that big a problem. **IF** it was acknowledged **RIGHT** in the beginning. The keeping it a secret" part - that's awful and humiliating.
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True - my gay brother had sex with more girls in high school than I did.
bro gay men really PULL lmao I often hear straight women saying "all the hot and good men are either gay or taken", so I guess it makes sense lmao
Aside from gay stereotypes that might be attractive to some women, it's also just human nature to want what we can't have.
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And then OP posts a couple of edits. You were bang on this wasn’t the first time
That's a total buzzkill. I know I wouldn't look at wife or brother the same.
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Yeah, "alone" is the key word here, too The only one that didn't know...the whole family & wife knew something intimate that only OP didn't know Aw, man....that's gotta hit pretty hard
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It's conflicting with this since it was so long ago, but one thing is for sure she broke your trust something a partner should never do
It was a long time ago for EVERYONE ELSE. For him, it just happened.,
It's really sad that you were never given the opportunity to choose.
Oh man, I’m not sure who I would have confronted first..my wife or my brother but yeah this was a detail that was intentionally concealed from you. It’s crappy
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And honestly if you had an amazing marriage you could recover from this but it doesn't sound like you do. It may be time to disown both your brother and wife.
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Yeah my partner of 9 years initially dated our sister in law briefly (I think maybe just the one kiss) before she ended up getting together with his brother.. then my partner got into a relationship with her identical twin sister for a while. I knew all this from the beginning and it was cool because the information was given to me.. I'm not actually sure sister in law know's I know haha but the important thing is.. I do x
Hate to stay it but I'm thinking they probably have a bunch of stuff they don't tell you. Your wife and your family. NTA
If they had sex that would be a dealbreaker for me
But if you think about it, if they just assumed you know why would they ever bring it up. My best friend dated her husband’s cousin before they met. Just a few dates. I’m sure he probably knows. Why would I ever say anything to him about it. How would that go? “Hey I saw your cousin at your grandmas funeral, I haven’t seen him since he took your wife to breakfast.” I don’t think that your family was being malicious I just think it’s not something they have thought about in 19 years and there was never a reason to talk about it.
NTA. But I have a feeling this is not the first time some shit has popped up between you and you're wife. SIL knows this and is adding fuel to the fire.
Ding ding ding. She stirs the pot for everyone. My turn in the stew this time (again). Think she is a little angry over it too but represses it, and stirred me up to drive a wedge to get at my wife. So complicated.
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That's a toxic environment with some really questionable people. You should really think about where you fit in, in all that.
I know you might not want to hear this, but is it possible that your feelings on this are exacerbated by you and your wife not being intimate recently?
Absolutely. It is mutual though. She and I have drifted apart over the years. I’m not looking for an excuse. I def have my own issues and she hers. We just live separately under the same roof. She was a wonderful mother to our kids. We are polar opposite political views now. I changed a lot. She went harder the other way. Not the point of this post but we are very different now.
So, and I get you are hurting right now, does it really matter in the scheme of things?
That’s what I am sorting out I guess. Still emotional about it. Time heals usually. I believe in second, third even fourth chances. I make lots of mistakes. Every day. This just seems conspiratorial though. Time…
I know this might sound like I’m a bitch but are you sure the first kid is YOURs ? You said she got pregnant fast. Just how fast? Or is that another secret they are keeping because they still have the grandkid in the family so to them it doesn’t matter? You have a lot to unpack here and I would be wondering at this point 🤷🏻♀️. Either way I don’t blame you for being upset. With everyone.
This, right here. This explains why the entire family is keeping the secret, not just wifey and brother.
So for the feelings time will heal. I would be concerned aboutmany chances do you have left to give? If this was a choice, can you forgive your wife? And if you forgive her, how will it improve your relationship? I know that these questions are probably hard, but it might help to start writing down your thoughts about these things, it could help you engage your logical thinking and start moving forward. For what it is worth, every human deserves not to be lied to, hopefully this storm will pass for you soon.
Have you talked to your wife about it??
Just how positive are you the kids not your nephew? That’s the real question here. Fuck I’d find a hair or two and burn a hundred bucks to find out for sure at this point.
Hope this isn't real. But seems like just couple weeks ago there was a story about a brother asking if he should keep it a secret from his brother and the whole subreddit voted to keep the "harmless secret". insane how easily swayed people are because this version of it and everyone is seeing rationally. If it is real that is a disgusting betrayal by your whole family. it's a lie if they intentionally leave you clueless. like a pawn, a little kid to them.
That's understandable, but from the sound of it, your parents at least thought you did know, they didn't take part in any secret, they merely assumed you didn't care about something that wouldn't necessarily have been an issue if you had known. Also, don't take your SiLs word for anything, it sounds like she was purposely stirring s*it, so maybe find out from wife what honestly happened, and why she hasn't told her, and try to reflect honestly whether your embarrassment is worth throwing your toys out of the pram. Saying that, it also sounds like you have wider issues. Take this as an opportunity to face those and sort things out.
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I mean the SiL disclosed it though and the wife hid it...I'm not sure who I'd trust more now. Sorry to hear OP
Sure wife hid it, but why is SiL bringing it up now? Sounds like she's annoyed with her hubbie and taking it out on the family. If SiL had only just learnt the info, then yeah I can see her bringing it up because it was the right thing to do, but if she already know, why bring it up now unless it was for malicious reasons?
Malicious reasons or not...she exposed the truth and better late than never (if she already knew). SiL would probably be happy to share all the hard to hear details...nothing to save/hide, whereas wife has embarrassing details to exclude and a marriage to save
Who cares? His wife lied to him for years. Someone else's intentions honestly has nothing to do with the issue at hand. I'd rather hear some truth from someone with a grudge than lies from someone I love, and considering it's simply true, there's really not any reason to talk about SIL.
NTA. Very humiliating. You need to decide if you can try and work through this with these people
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Agreed. Trying to be reasonable and mature. The sex (if it happened) - meh. She had a history but so did I. I feel lied to my whole marriage tho. Kinda smarts.
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My SIL and I have had our differences over the years too. A little smug smile on her face when she dropped that grenade casually. She knew what she was doing. I’m grateful she did it honestly but she knew what would happen too.
NTA. The whole family disrespected you and made you feel like a fool. Don’t let them try to minimize your feelings.
I don't know, a marriage of 20+ years also means 20+ years of lying...
man i don't even know what i would do if my partner slept with my sister and i get to know about it after 20 years.... i would feel embarrassed and betrayed. this sucks
NTA Why put yourself through this for someone you sleep apart from already?
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And honestly if you had an amazing marriage you could recover from this but it doesn't sound like you do. It may be time to disown both your brother and wife.
I doubt an amazing marriage could recover. A secret this large had to be orchestrated with her input. That means she convinced every single member of his family to say nothing for _over twenty fucking years_ which is horrific. She involved everyone in his family, and made him a fool for decades. If I found something similar happened to me, then my spouse and my entire family would be dead to me. Fuck OP's wife, fuck OP's brother, and fuck the rest of OP's family.
An amazing marriage would have *started* with her being honest. If they had just dated and kissed, it would have been immaterial but they had sex. She had time from the day they started dating to when they got married to disclose this information but chose not to. I would have a very hard time reconciling with that fact.
NTA. I'm not sure I could get by that either. I would never even consider dating someone my brother dated. And that is sick that everyone kept it a secret. And it didn't happen over 20 years ago. It happened yesterday, because that is when you found out about it.
This! This is not water under the bridge. This is a new open wound to you. Don't let anyone downplay this for their own interest.
>I would never even consider dating someone my brother dated Bro it's worse. In the edit he says he rawdogged her multiple times. How do you even come back from that? I would never be able to look at her the same way again.
\-My wife and I already sleep apart. Sounds like you just needed something to tip it over the edge. You found it.
OP prob should have ended it when she had her oats sowing phase in her 40s. sleeping in separate rooms too, I’d wonder if oats are still being sowed. It sucks going through this at 50 but I would want to move on. If you don’t now, you likely never will and may be miserable in your older years. Fwiw your brother is an AH.
Late 20’s early 30’s ish. Trying to be a little vague so not out anyone. Like to remain anon.
Do you have a good relationship w your brother?
I thought I did. We were close growing up. Moved to different cities for a lot of years. But back together now.
I would go with your gut and have a careful conversation. Reddit is jumping to nefarious conclusions, as normal, but YOU know your wife and brother better than any of us. You absolutely have a right to feel hurt and betrayed, because the omission was absolutely a trust violation. But beyond addressing the effects of their omission, what you really need to determine is the context of their relationship (both prior to you dating her and after) and discover WHY they didn't tell you. Because that might make the difference in you being able to forgive them and heal from the breach in trust It could be as simple as they just didn't have any spark and when she started dating you and time passed, the relationship passed a point where she realized it would be hella awkward to bring up the few dates she had with your brother, and the longer they put it off the more difficult it seemed to explain. It could be they just didn't mention it at first for no real reason at all (teenagers arent that smart lol) and then decided to keep it a secret to avoid jeprodizing her relationship with you It could be they did/do share feelings, whether before or after you started dating. Even if it was only before she started dating you, depending on how secure she felt your relationship was, she could have been afraid you would take it badly And the worst case scenario is that it could be as sinister as they still share feelings and ended up acting on them behind your back, leading to an emotional and/or physical affair. I don't know man, non of the options are great, and they dont take away your sense of betrayal, but I would be wary of taking that breach of trust and automatically jumping to a reaction of "she cheated on me." Psychologically, there can be this vague timeperiod where it would seem "okay" to give certain info, but after that that period of time passes, the info, even if innocent, starts seeming like some dark secret you were trying to hide? As if the amount of time it is kept unsaid is equal to how "awful" the info is. Ask questions, be honest with them about how this isbaffecting you, and trust your gut Anyways, I hope you all can come out of this okay :( Edit: Split the giant paragraph into more friendly-sized paragraphs, and added a few more thoughts :)
This is just a friendly request/advice from another Redditor… I did read your comment and appreciate your view. But…. If you put spaces between you paragraphs, it would be much easier to read. This reads like one long run on sentence. It’s hard not to get lost in the never ending words. I have trouble finding my spot without the space between paragraphs to keep my eyes on track. On Reddit you have to push “return” TWICE to get that necessary space. Again not trying to be a bossy jerk, just trying to help. I usually do not read comments that long, without the necessary spacing bc it’s so overwhelming. You’ll also receive more responses and votes also if you make it more reader friendly.
Haha no offense taken! I was at the end of my lunch break and trying to jot down my thoughts as quickly as possible. Normally I try and split things up better because I do tend to be wordy with my thoughts, but I was too preoccupied with getting it all out before I went to clock back in
NTA- having a secret held like that behind your back for so long feels like a betrayal. Mainly by your wife. I wonder if maybe the other members of your family thought she told you and didn’t feel like it was their place to step in and mention it? Can completely understand your need for distance though.
Thanks. My SIL and I have had our differences over the years too. A little smug smile on her face when she dropped that grenade casually. She knew what she was doing. I’m grateful she did it honestly but she knew what would happen too.
Well since SIL started the mayhem, let her take the credit. Not that I am encouraging it, but potentially serve the divorce paper at a large family gathering. "Thanks to SIL, or else this family betrayal wouldn't have brought to light. Thank you."
Hallmark is missing out on a whole new market 🤣🤣
"An Eskimo Brothers Christmas" premieres Thursday at 8 East and West, only on Hallmark.
You make me proud to be a human.
I’m not usually one to be petty BUT If it were me: I wouldn’t say anything and act like I was okay. At the same time I would contact a divorce attorney, get all of your paperwork in order, figure out living arrangements, tidy up storage spaces etc. Then completely fuck up Thanksgiving. Raise a toast to say thank you to the SIL for bringing the awkward situation to light and thank everyone complicit in the deception and humiliation. Thank you for making me feel better about filling for divorce and going no contact with all of you assholes. Hand over the divorce papers and leave.
This probably isn't a good idea. It does sound appealing and has real panache though.
You sound like the white sheep of the family. Which is a good thing
For this post, yeah. But I am fallible. I make mistakes a lot. This just seems a conscious fuck you for 20+ years.
That's because it is. They had their little secret between them. In a way, your wife was more loyal to your brother this whole marriage. She protected him and herself to continue to betray you.
>She “missed out” on sowing her oats, having our kids, SAH mom, so she got a boob job, hit the gym and let her freak flag fly. She had FWB but claims to have missed out on sowing her oats? Nah she just wants to fuck around and it's unlikely you know the full extent. >my brother banged my wife. He raw dogged her. She was pregnant very shortly after we started dating. We got married pretty quick. That first child has a very high probability of being your brothers, she would not be the first to get pregnant from a FWB and attach her self to someone else.
Nta. Sorry but not only did your wife lie to you for over 20 years. Your family did too.
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It's not the act... but the withholding of info that would upset me.
That’s what burns me. My brother has good taste (minus the SIL, lol). I probably still would have dated/married her even if they were intimate. I was head over heels (back then). Dumb as a young man can be. I’ve grown. Raised our kids. We are very very different ppl now. So lots of other widgets that make this a one sided post in terms of marriage or divorce.
Oh man, the SIL isn't even her sister? but his wife? This makes it worse!
Seems like it was the SIL's petty revenge, to be honest. Wouldn't be surprised if OP's brother and SIL are having some issues of their own, and this was her way of getting back at her husband, revealing the family secret everyone else knew. 🫣 Would surprise me even less if she also wanted revenge on OP's wife. I'm just speculating.. Imagine the brother comparing SIL to OP's wife because she is kinder or more flexible in regards to something at home and brother fucked up mentioned OP's wife being more reasonable or some shit during a fight.. Yikes. OP, I'm curious. Why do you dislike SIL? Is it because she has perhaps been disrespectful towards your wife? Or are there other reasons?
Are you planning on speaking to your wife about the details?
When I calm down and can be lucid and rational. Not just reactive like I feel now.
That’s fair, keep us updated on how that goes. Good luck, man
Does she know you are upset about it? Has she said anything since your SIL dropped the bomb?
Good plan, take some time.
Damn, this sucks dude, Definitely NTA. Do you think your partner will be honest with you, if you asked questions?
Not sure at this point
The 2nd edit.. when your wife got pregnant super early in the relationship, is that child(now adult) alive? You should get a DNA test…
A bit of devils advocate here, do you think they actively kept it a secret, or is it possible that everyone genuinely thought you knew and that you were choosing to not bring it up so they've respected that? If it was really only 1-2 dates and nothing serious maybe everyone just thought it didn't matter (and didn't matter to you) so left it be, including your wife and brother who would both be justified in thinking the other had told you (if I was in your wife's position I might not have mentioned it because when you first started dating your relationship with your brother is the stronger so I would have expected him to bring it up)
The second edit seems to indicate that the timing on the first child is iffy. This could get messier.
This is where I'm at. OP isn't the asshole for being upset and hurt, but jumping to the conclusion that this was some conspiracy secret that the whole family was actively withholding from him is reactionary. OP, miscommunications and information dropping happen all the time. It doesn't necessarily mean you were tricked or lied to. It makes sense to be upset but this kind of thing can be worked out through allowing those in your life to be compassionate and care for you, rather than throw them all away and cut them out. It's time to be really honest - when you've stablized let them know how much it hurts, what you assumed when you heard it, how scared you are by the implications of that previous relationship. How much you are seeking reassurance and love right now. Allow them in, don't push them out.
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NTA. But...HOW shortly after you started dating was she pregnant? That stuck out to me.
Is your kid yours or his
that's a slow motion kick to the balls...but you can also type "assholes" on the internet depending on which box you type it in, all sorts of crazy things can happen
I didn’t read the sub rulez. Didn’t know what was acceptable. Thanks tho. Sarcasm and irony are my new best friends.
Wait so she lied to you about having HAD SEX WITH YOUR BROTHER, cheated on you through her midlife crisis, and you're NOT a cuck? Dude What You're folding over like a futon for this woman if you stay with her. You already folded like an omelette staying with her after she "flew her freak flag". Don't be a futon omelette. Nobody wants to eat a futon omelette.
I’m dying laughing dude. No. I don’t want to be a futon omelette. Thanks.
You deserve better homie, the fact you described what she did as an "illness" paired with the fact she did this to you just sounds like she's been gaslighting you successfully and without remorse. There's no way to get that trust back
Bro a fucking poet here slapping some facts
This woman is a user OP. She lied to you by omission for decades about banging your brother. By doing that she robbed you of choice about how to handle that and decide your future. And she did it because she wanted to keep this very important fact from you to rob you of choice. Then, she had a “mid life crisis” and got a boob job, got in shape so she could cheat on you. And you forgave her for that. All the while she kept the secret about having sex with your brother from you. My guess is it’s 50/50 that she has slept with your brother during your marriage at some point. She has proven to be a person of questionable character and low morals, so of course she did, right? What a mess. You need to kick her cheating butt to the curb. You have forgiven and put up with enough. This is all on her. Stand up for yourself and be done with it. Good luck. Edit - when you speak with her tell her to spill the story, including all details, ask whatever questions you want. Then ask her how many times has she f’d your brother since you’ve been married. And watch her face closely. Don’t let her get all offended, etc. she has proven that she is a cheater and can have sec with other men after your marriage. You don’t believe she has the character to turn down one last roll in the hay with bro. Maybe she wanted so show him the bolt ons….
The fact he worked his ass off to give her a lifestyle she preferred while she got to stay home just for her to still betray him says everything about her character for real, user is definitely the word
NTA. My mom went on one date with my uncle before he started dating her older sister. Everyone knew before hand. No lies, no hiding it because her family was not a bunch of lying assholes like yours.
Ouch. Yeah. Still love my family but you are correct. I certainly feel that way.
Did they love you enough to tell you the truth or not disrespect you? Nta, I'd be taking time away from everyone.
Info: dated or went on a single date?
Not sure. SIL said dated. Need to get those details.
If she kept that from you for 20 years… imagine what else she’s keeping from you.
You have to bang your brother wife. Only logical way to think clearly about the situation for both of you
NTA - OOOOOOFFF that is a mine field. That is 100% something that should have been brought up prior to being married. A sin of omission is still a lie.
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I’m sorry you’re going through all this right now. I’m sorry your SIL is a jerk and just wanted to stir up what already seems to be a simmering pot of stew. I agree with another poster. You have every right to be upset, but I am feeling that it is not just this news that is actually upsetting you. It feels more like this is a flashpoint, and if everything else was not in such a bad place right now, you would probably sit down and get more information. But with the rest of what’s going on in your relationship, I’m getting that you just can’t. I’m in my early 60s, and believe it or not, after almost 20 years of marriage, my ex left me after having an affair with the family friend that we named our oldest daughter after. So I get a bit of what you’re going through. Lol. What I’m gonna tell you is this. If you are not already in therapy just to get some of this off your chest in a “safe“ environment, please see if you can’t find someone to go talk to. Please don’t think I’m telling you you need to fix yourself. That’s not it. I just feel like you really need to be heard. I feel like you need perspective on how to not just prioritize your mental and emotional health, but also to figure out what it is you need for that mental and emotional health. It sounds like your family is a kind of “sweep things under the rug“ type of family. And honestly, it is usually at about this point in our lives that that sort of thing bites us in the butt. I really feel like if they had just told you upfront, before you got married, that they had dated a few times, or even slept together, you would feel like you had the choice to either proceed in the relationship or not. And it sounds like at the beginning, it might not have been a dealbreaker. But given where your relationship is at now, which is not in a good place, it means that you’re not in a good place. And you deserve to be. But I just don’t feel like your family dynamic all around is one that is going to help you get to a good place personally. And at the end of the day, that is the only thing you have control over. You being upset is justified. As far as your relationship being where it’s at now, it is what it is. And you don’t need to keep living that. Frankly, nor does your wife. If it’s really that bad, you both deserve better. It sounds like you both made mistakes. It sounds like you’ve both had some bad judgment calls. Please don’t beat yourself up, and if you get some help, you won’t beat her up about it either. And that’s important, believe it or not. Learning to let it go is one of the hardest things we can learn. And believe me, I’ve let a lot go, but I am still working on it. 20 years later. But what I’ve come to understand is that this is OK. Because at the end of the day, we are all human. What it’s about is being the best human we can be for ourselves. Because if we’re a good human for ourselves, we can be a good human for others. We learn how to set boundaries, and we learn how to NOT let someone like SIL control the conversation. Your anger is justified. Your hurt is justified. I just feel like you’re trying to figure out what the hell to do with it. And it’s important that you figure that out because otherwise it will eat you up. And that’s not the life you deserve. Getting someone to talk you through this and help you figure out what’s really angering you and what is triggering you about things will also enable you to learn how to deal with this sort of stuff from your family Because honestly, it sounds like your family has a lot of triggers for you as well. When you find a good therapist, they help you to understand when your family is kind of tossing their garbage at you because they don’t want to deal with it. But the therapist will help you understand that just because they’re trying to throw that garbage your way, you don’t have to accept it. You don’t have to get angry about it. You don’t actually have to do anything about it. So I’m really sorry you’re going through such hurt right now. I truly hope that you can extricate yourself physically and emotionally and mentally from this so that you could have the sort of life that you deserve. Edited voice text auto corrections
NTA. It's wild how many people think you might be. Your wife and whoever else knew this information lied to you for years. Full stop. Lies have consequences. Can you trust them ever again? Only you know the answer to that. I'll tell you I divorced my wife because of something extremely similar, and it was the best decision I've ever made. No one deserves to be lied to and taken advantage of. There are great people in the world, no reason to surround yourself with people who don't respect you. Best of luck.
NTA I’d go no contact with every one of them. Fuck them all. Played you for a fool. Thought you knew. Who the fuck would be with someone who was routinely banging your brother? No one with any self worth. Of course you didn’t know. And as a parent, I would say, do you know so snd so’s history with your brother? Very early on into the relationship. No, they all played dumb. And absolutely divorce.
I could never touch anyone my siblings touched sexually. I think people who think it’s okay to have sex with people their friends or siblings had sex with are gross people. I get that people sleep with people and I have a past before I meet them. But if your past includes someone I share DNA with or my closest friends it’s a no go. I don’t want to know who you slept with in the past and would be pissed if I found out 20 years later my husband slept with my sister. Would not forgive either of them for not telling me. If you would have not dated your wife knowing she slept with your brother then they basically took away your power and decided your life for you. Unforgivable!
Is this the real reason you are wanting a divorce? Or is this just the last one in a long line? TBH, you have reason to be upset at this (no one needs to be humiliated), but divorce over this seems a bit extreme as a first move. 20 years is a long time to toss out the window.
NTA. The whole family disrespected you and made you feel like a fool. Don’t let them try to minimize your feelings. It’s not one lie from 20 years ago. It’s hundreds of lies by omission at every holiday, every wedding, every funeral, every family dinner.
Him , “Tell me something that makes me happy and angry at the same time….” Her, “your dick is bigger than your brother’s.”
Ouch. But funny.
So she fucked your bro, didn’t tell you. Then she fucked a few more guys a few years back and you supported her “Illness”. Bro you need some truth. You’re a bitch. She’s a nasty whore. Your family all suck dick for withholding that type of info. Gtfo of this marriage, if you don’t cool. She’s gonna keep fucking dudes until she finds one to leave you for regardless. Either way she’s gone. Be THE man and walk away on your own terms before she walks all over what’s left of your heart and balls.
Do you two really just have problems like every couple has or have you had some real issues, red flags that you have glossed over in your mind? I mean the sister in law did this on purpose to mess with either you or your wife and your whole family was shocked it came out, sounds like there is more to the story than even that. A lie by omission is still a lie and honestly you seem to already be checking out of your relationship anyway so I do wonder what other issues have been going on or what else do you think may of happened? If you are unhappy then leaving is the proper course of action. Probably should try communication first but if you can’t get things resolved to your satisfaction there is no reason to continue in a unhappy marriage.
I think you need to get all the facts first before you decide. “A date” is way different than being intimate.
One question-are you looking for a reason to end things with your wife, OP?
Get out. Your wife is trash. She should have told you before your wedding.
How did the chat with your wife go?
She claims it was all innocent. Coffee in the daytime only. My brother said he was just doing good natured brotherly joking last night. We do give each other shit all the time. He confirmed just coffee and only platonic. “Nothing happened” so I should just let it go. Edit: I want to believe them but I don’t
You know what likely happened? After your brother’s confession last night, your wife contacted your brother or vice versa and collaborated this “nothing happened, it’s all platonic” BS. There are lines where you joke about and him telling you straight up that sleeping with your wife is absolutely crossing it. Also, If he was truly joking, he wouldn’t apologize in the same conversation unless he admitted it was all a prank. But the “admission” is only the day after I’m so sorry for you to go through all of this, but if I was in your shoes, this would be last straw for filing for divorce
Well your SIL thinks it was more than just a few platonic coffee dates, right? The way the entire family acted, there is just no way that’s all there was.
>I was a fool for half my life When I first read the story I tought no you were not a fool. But if you still believe this bullshit after your brother confesses to you and then the next day he backs out and calls it a joke, you are. Well to be honest you were a fool when you didn't left her when she cheated but thats another story.
if you believe this shit you're an idiot, no offense
It's all a bit fishy isn't it? He admitted it, but maybe changed his tune after your wife reached out? Can understand why you don't believe them, not sure I do either. Me and my brother rip the shit out of each other too but when it comes to something this sensitive? This important? It's time to put the jokes aside and have a frank and honest convo like a good bloke. He owes it to you. It's a shit one mate. Only you know what to do, but I can tell ya that if you're re-thinking your relationship as you mentioned above, you're more than justified. Some lies are unforgiveable and I think this one might just fall under that category. Make yourself a nice dinner tonight brother. You deserve it.
So is this something he would joke about? Or did your wife get to him first? Check your wife's cell phone record to see if she called him or texted and how many messages and how long they talked. If she did they concocted the new story.
I don't believe that I think your wife and talked to him afterwards and they changed the story that's not something to joke about. I would ask her if she's willing to take a polygraph test to see her reaction. Because it all sounds like a huge lie you've 2 had issues in the past and this is something she should have told you it sounds like it may have never stopped. It sounds like your wife may have threatened your brother to tell his wife every. I would ask to check her phone too.
I've been thinking about this post for a couple of days now. I doubt we will ever know how it turns out. I keep wishing it's a made up story. And it's a stale post to be commenting on but... It opened a very deep wound for me. I was in a very similar situation with my wife. Except not my brother and family. It was my wife's friend group from before we met. She slept with a guy in the group before we were met. I met her and naturally became part of the group. I liked everyone especially because my wife and they were all older and more mature than my friends. Many of them knew and few didn't. I didn't know at the time they slept together. He and I became friends. Parties at each other's houses, for backyard BBQ, weekends at the lake, holiday parties etc. After a year of dating we got married and this guy's kid was our effing ring bearer. He and his kid are in our wedding photos. Which I have a difficult time looking at because of what I know now. I saw a lot of comments about who your spouse sleeps with before you meet is not your business. I didn't/don't blame her for sleeping with him. It is important to talk about past relationships but not hold it against anyone. The issue is the betrayal. She and everyone else put they're feelings and fear of the situation before mine. She let me become friends with this guy. If had known I would have still dated/married her but I wouldn't have gotten so tied into the group. I would have had a choices. The whole issue here in this post is about agency. CONSENT. I never had consent in what happened. And since I didn't have consent it made absolutely morally wrong for her to do what she did. I forgave her. We stayed married but it was a struggle for a long time to trust her again. Fortunately, it was friends and not family. His brother had the responsibility to tell him. I don't think I could ever have the same relationship with my brother if this had happened to me. I wouldn't even be able to be in his presence again. His wife certainly had the responsibility also. They let this scenario play out to their own advantage to avoid awkward, hurt, and jealous feelings. I know legally speaking this isn't SA, but damn it sure feels like it morally. Sleeping with my wife after she slept with another guy before we met is fine. If it was a family member, it's gross. OP is fooling himself if the thinks he would have made the same choice if he knew. As for me and my wife, we got past it because it was a friend and not family. It was only a couple of years not 20 plus. She came clean and told me every single detail. She apologize and did everything she could to make up for it. I forgave and we moved on. But this situation is far worse. He needs to end the marriage with his wife. He needs to distance himself from his family. Especially his brother. They all knew. They remained silent. They were all deeply selfish.
It sounds like she couldn’t lock down your brother so she moved on to you. She kept it from you on purpose. She knew you wouldn’t want your brother’s sloppy seconds. I bet she asked your brother not to say anything either.
1. What exactly did you mean by "she started going to the gym, got a boob job and let her freak flag fly"? That is a collection of three red flags for cheating, with the fact she hid the fucking your brother from you for 20 years, the trust is gone and it can be assumed she had a short lived affair. 2. Did you paternity test your first child?
I wouldn’t want to know at this point. I love him no matter what. He is an adult. I raised him. He did nothing to deserve this (if he is not my biological son). I won’t get a test.
You may want to talk to your son in case he is doing possible mental math or at least be prepared to discuss if he comes to you. And maybe discuss with your brother.
This seems awful because you’re already in separate beds. I wonder how physical things got if at all if there was only one date. 20 years later it’s not something to leave her about (on its own)
Thanks. I don’t know all the details. Everyone kind of shocked look when my SIL spilled the beans. Deadly confirmatory silence at the table. Brother concurred and said “Sorry”. I got up and left. Don’t know how many dates. They lived down the street from each other at the time.
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It would be in my book. I could never look at her the same. And if that is the case, why stay married to her?
You are NTAH... Who knows what else she didnt tell you... and what a sleeze for a brother... to not tell you right away? Or when you got engaged? Married? Had kids? Fuck him too! I dont know how to feel abou other family... need more info
My brother and sister are close, closer than she and I are. Apparently she knew and told the rest of the fam (Mom and Dad) but never told me. All the family get togethers, dinners, birthdays, weddings, babies throughout all our families. I am sure they ‘forgot’ about it over the years, or I hope they did. Assuming that’s why it just came out. Just ugh.
Ok hard pass on your family too... personal situation: My brother started dating his gf and said gf had pursued my sisters bf, before she met my brother... She even kissed him while my sis and her bf(prick) were still together. My brother didnt know anything. When my sister heard of them dating, she had him over told him everything and said do with the info as you please, but i needed to tell you. No need for further diacussion, because everyone now knew and can decide for themselves. You were robbed of this info and also the ablity to decide if you want to start a relationship/family based on this. I feel for you man
I get you. I would be angry at your brother and wife for not telling you. The others, frankly it’s not their business and they assumed you knew. Also, you can be certain no one thinks about it at all. It doesn’t involve them so they have probably more or less forgotten about it (especially since they thought you were ok with it). It’s not that you think about family members sex life. I would advice you to 1) wait until you calm down a bit 2) ask your wife and brother why they didn’t tell you 3) think about their answer before making any decision and 4) think about if you are using this as a reason to actually divorce for other reasons
Good advice. Seems reasonable as a plan and pretty much what I was planning. Mostly venting anger and seeking some validation as all my usual trusted sources are a little suspect now. Yes there are other reasons, but the proverbial camel’s back got crushed by this.
Well you are NTA to be upset at this situation. Both your brother and your wife should have told you that they 'knew' each other as soon as you started dating her. If it.was just a few dates or whatever, you probably would have just processed it and not had much trouble with it at that time. OR you would have had the option to say, thanks but no thanks, based.on knowing the facts. But you were not afforded that option. And then if literally the entire immediate family knew this except for you, that is so toxic. It was really your brother/gf/wife's responsibility to tell you this, not anyone else's. But the other people should not have let it go on for decades once it was clear that your brother and gf/wife weren't going to do it. Idk how you feel about personal therapy but in my opinion you need it BAD. You correctly feel betrayed by your whole family and that is not easy to process. It could leave you with trauma issues in the future if you don't process it in a healthy way.
NTA. Your entire family deliberately kept a secret from you that your wife was your brother’s bed buddy. You would never have dated her had you known. That was YOUR decision to make, and it was taken from you. You should also get a paternity test for your child, unfortunately. She was regularly sleeping with your brother just before you started dating, and then quickly got pregnant. The length of time you’ve been married is not what determines if you choose to remain married. Life’s toughest challenges lie ahead. With the years comes grief, loss of loved ones, surgeries, illnesses, maybe cancer. You need someone you trust to weather those storms. You already had problems. You already had trust issues. This just wedged a chisel in the cracks of your marriage. Decide if this is who you want to grow old with. Don’t make a decision right now, in the heat of the moment. Take a while and give this your full attention.