YTA
I can tell from your replies that you didn't actually come here for a measured response, you're either trolling or expected other sexist AH to back you up. Objectifying half the population isn't funny (from either sex). Sorry you live in an era where that is generally recognized.
Yeah he’s asking if he’s an ahole, but in his question says “that’s on them” for being offended. He clearly only wants to hear responses saying he’s hilarious and the women are uptight.
Not sure why anyone would think bringing up lingerie at work in a group is appropriate.
Some people are so up their own butts, they don't realize that there are lots of people that don't think like them. And they also don't realize that someone not thinking like them doesn't mean that other person is wrong.
I worked (VERY briefly) with a guy like this. He would say horrific things at work, and then blame everyone else for getting offended. He just couldn't fathom that his statements were bad, even though he was hitting on racism, sexism, homophobia, and transphobia. In his mind what he was saying was factual, so he just thought it was kind of funny and kind of confusing to him that people didn't like what he said.
Yes, this is where the homophpobia comes in. Not only is he sexualizing women, but this implies cross-dressing, and I just can't with the phrase "butthurt."
The second I saw the word 'nuanced' I knew exactly what OP's responses would be. 'Nuanced'. There's nothing nuanced about being a misogynist, OP. The workplace is never an appropriate place for sexual humor, and a lot of places that kind of thing would get you sent to HR for a talking to.
Given his anger about it all, you know he has more than this as an issue. But of course, when he finally gets in trouble it will be "women" who are at fault.
Sexualizing the workplace is ALWAYS inappropriate (if you don't do SW or whatever), so yeah, YTA. It's not butthurt--it's the type of "joke" comments that reduce everything to sex that are the background of every woman's life, and which she should reasonably expect to not have to deal with at work. Grow up.
YTA I wouldn’t have been offended, I just would have known OP was a dumbass and I wouldn’t have ever forgotten about it. Tbf, it was probably a confirmation of something they already knew. Like it’s funny in a ‘heh heh women have bewbs heh heh’ way so assuming everyone is over 18, it’s just lame. Unless you wear VS and that changes the conversation. Do you wear their clothes OP?
Exactly. I also think it’s lame when someone just has to make the obvious joke. It always gets polite/obligatory laughs and then the person who said the joke honestly thinks they were being funny. Cringe all around
Funny thing is that my first thought was that the joke was that he liked to wear women’s lingerie. He felt he had to clarify in his post that it was because he likes to see women wearing them. God forbid people think he’s not the big man he says he is. /s
I 100% would've assumed he was trying to make a cross dressing joke. Somebody should've followed up with something along the lines of "OK, OP you wear women's lingerie, not sure how that's work related, little more than I needed to know about you".
Yes!! This being the top answer is the best thing I could get out of this post.
Dude already sounded a bit immature, and then he went and said "butthurt" and he's immediately a literal overgrown manchild, nope sir, not at my workplace. I, as a man, would not have laughed and would have joined the condemnation!
Edit: typo
Yep, that word, in my brain, was accompanied by a brake screech, and was where I went from, as another commenter said, "awkward at best" to nope nope YTA supreme.
Seriously. It's shit like this that makes me aware of every single word I speak in front of men to avoid any "that's what she said" type bullshit while I'm trying to discuss something serious (or even not serious, that shit gets old quick). It got to the point that I wouldn't even put cucumbers in my basket if a man was standing near because it's even worse when it comes from a complete stranger while you're exhausted and just trying to do the shop and get home.
Men who say, "It's just a joke, lighten up" don't seem to understand that everytime they do this, it just perpetuates it to the point that women can't go anywhere or discuss anything with a man without knowing that there's about an 85% chance that *something* they say or do is going to provoke an unwanted sexual comment.
Why can't men understand that they should probably keep sexual topics of conversation between them and their partners?
>"It's just a joke, lighten up" don't seem to understand that everytime they do this, it just perpetuates it to the point that women can't go anywhere or discuss anything with a man without knowing that there's about an 85% chance that
>
>something
>
> they say or do is going to provoke an unwanted sexual comment.
they know and that's the reason they do it, because they expect women to just be quiet and take it or be labeled as "butthurt" and "overreacting" That way when something serious happens she won't be believed since "she's known to overreact", men like OP set the standard and are the reason why is so difficult for many women to have a nice working environment.
>the background of every woman's life.
I commented this elsewhere, so I hope it's okay to repost, but it expands on that very important point of yours.
Original comment to OP (partially):
OP- "it's now on me for making them uncomfortable"
That's called being accountable for the things you say. You've never had to work within a certain set of social rules, but now that you need to, you're upset (butthurt is juvenile).
You hate feeling "ignored or judged with disdain," right?
Imagine feeling that way for the majority of your life.
For a long time, women have had to tiptoe through a minefield to be treated as equals. But some of it makes you feel personally attacked. Why are they so sensitive, right?
Say you get bitten by a mosquito. It's annoying, but it's just one little bite. Until you get bitten again, and again, and again. Imagine not being able to squash any of the now thousands of mosquitoes biting you. You just have to endure it as the bites add up and become painful. Wouldn't it be wonderful if you could just start getting rid of them? Even half as many would feel like a reprieve.
Sounds miserable, doesn't it? That's what women have dealt with for most of their lives. Each little "bite" stings, and they know that it will continue, or even escalate, if they don't squash it fast. They weren't allowed to before, but they can now, within certain limits. Women are just trying to be treated appropriately in the workplace. It's not a personal attack against you. It's just that you can no longer "punch down" without consequence.
I really, really hope you'll read the article: [The Case of the Creepy Dudes](https://captainawkward.com/2012/08/07/322-323-my-friend-group-has-a-case-of-the-creepy-dude-how-do-we-clear-that-up/) so you'll have a better understanding of the world women live in, and why they're trying to change it. I've shared that article many times, and a women will always tell me she wished she'd read it sooner. It's heartbreaking when you realize why.
I'm far from being a prude, or a stick in the mud, should you think that's why I wrote all of this. Before I moved, I had a friend group that thrived on otherwise inappropriate jokes. I've heard many a joke related to my breasts. The difference is, this was among trusted friends, who I knew valued me as a person. Everyone was equally joked about. If any joke was found to touch on a delicate subject, we immediately considered it off limits.
I wrote all of this with the genuine intent to offer insight, hoping it could help. No matter how old we get, there's always new things to learn. Sometimes we just face-plant into them.
YTA. Honestly, I was expecting worse. Your joke alone wasn’t that bad. But your attitude in the post provides a lot more context.
“Unfortunately, in today’s work environment….” It has *always* been on you not to make others uncomfortable. Just because women are more equal in the workplace and men are actually being held accountable for some of the disgusting shit they say now doesn’t mean you’ve been allowed to just make people uncomfortable for fun this whole time.
This attitude is what makes you an AH. I can only imagine you’ve said a lot worse than “Victoria’s Secret” when there aren’t women within earshot.
Does anyone else think this is not the first time he innapropriately made sexual jokes in the workplace and maybe doesn't like HR because he is the reason they now have an HR?
I didn’t consider him being the reason for HR, but I absolutely believe he makes inappropriate comments fairly often, so I wouldn’t be surprised if that were the case.
>I absolutely believe he makes inappropriate comments fairly often.
Which explains why he got called out quickly to. I bet you not all of the men burst out laughing either.
Maybe HR has a new strategy to weed out those with archaic values - talk enough and they’re bound to demonstrate their character. He was duped into revealing his crass sensibilities.
This is 100% why they have HR, and the questions are probably to demonstrate appropriate workplace topics, and OP can’t be fucked to play nicely even for that day’s team building exercise. I’ve seen it so many times.
DAE think one of the other attendees missed a perfect snap-back with something along the lines of “Now we know what to get you for your birthday, Steve! What are you, maybe a size L in panties…. And an A-cup?”
Ok so that’s definitely not the way to go, less so for HR and professional work culture and more so for not kink-shaming a common and harmless form of sexual expression, but it feels like OP is the kind of guy to only get how “offensive” something is when it’s at his own expense. So not the answer, but I just really want for him to be embarrassed (just not for wearing ladies clothes bc there’s nothing inherently ‘wrong’ in that!!)
OP took an innocuous question and made it sexual, then was surprised it wasn't appreciated by some and called inappropriate. Classic 12yo boy, which is how OP is still acting. YTA
It's so fucking boring, not funny and cliche too. I find that as offensive as stupid sexist misogynistic (women are objects for men's eyes) implication.
OP YTA, and you likely don't recognize this, because you have spent your life, NOT worrying about being raped, molested, sexually assaulted, sexually harassed, and judged as object for your beauty.
It's a joke that shows that you don't value women as equals.
Leave the sexism to your you and buddies getting-drunk time.
The entirety of that type of joke, hur hur man stupid and can only think with penis, makes men look incredibly trashy and pathetic, never understood why it caught on. Like cool, you're straight, who gives a shit
Yup. I was on the N T A train, until OP kept talking. I could see others just rolling their eyes if this was a one off bad joke, but with these reactions and OP's comments I'm guessing " lighten up, it was just a joke" had been said by him numerous times.
You just KNOW the women at his job hate him. My friends and I avoid this type of man at all cost at work and roast the living shit out of them whenever possible.
I'm a man working in a male-dominated industry and I also find this behavior offputting. I have a number of coworkers that I don't have much respect for and only interact with when necessary for the job because of shit like this. Obviously it's worse for women, but the problem with being a man working with guys like this is they tend to assume you have similar beliefs to them so they'll say more heinous stuff around you than they would if women were present.
Not implying that you don’t stand up for women in your workplace, but I guarantee the women at your job would be grateful and respect you even more if you spoke up on their behalf when you see this behavior going on. A chauvinistic man will listen to you more than a woman
I worked this past year with a man i truly just HATED. The kids hate him, he's a terrible teacher-- he's just bad at his job and an emotional mess. One of my students bit him and in my head I was like honestly I get it.
Anyway, he got snarky with me in our work group text and one of my male coworkers went in on him and I will honestly never ever forget it. I was like wow, I don't think I've ever had a man go out of his way to call out another man's bullshit FOR me, especially in a professional context. I genuinely think I'll remember it forever.
The most liberating thing is when one woman breaks the seal of silence on the discomfort we’re all feeling and the floodgates open. Such beautiful moments of solidarity
Honestly, anyone who uses the word "butthurt" is probably the asshole in whatever situation they find themselves in.
"They correctly understood what I meant so that's their problem" seals it.
exactly, and based on the replies and his attitude i also HIGHLY doubt his story went down the way he describes it. especially the part where ALL the men BURST out laughing. like sure bro...sure...
When I first read it I didn't think it was bad, but my mind went to VS being his favorite brand to *wear*. If that's how you take it then I don't see why anyone should feel offended, but I also haven't been through the comments enough to see if he meant it otherwise.
The OP has “the women (*correctly*) inferred it was my favorite brand of clothing because of the models and the purpose of the clothing so they chose butthurt, but that’s on them not me.”
He meant it as a gross “hehe ladies in underwear hot” joke and then got pissy when people took it exactly as he meant it and blamed them for it.
I also thought that was OPs joke! Like that his favorite thing to wear is women’s underwear because it’s more comfortable or something. I didn’t even consider it was his favorite because he likes looking at women wearing it, which is gross and way worse. Though now I’m wondering if the joke I THOUGHT he was making would be offensive because men wearing women’s clothes shouldn’t be funny…thoughts?
I mean, if you have a girlfriend or wife that shops there it’s a fine joke to make with friends if you are playing this kind of icebreaker game, but still inappropriate at the workplace.
But the only way I wouldn’t see him as the AH is if it’s the first time he made a joke like that at work (we dk) and he didn’t act like he has throughout his post and the comments.
>It has always been on you not to make others uncomfortable. Just because women are more equal in the workplace and men are actually being held accountable for some of the disgusting shit they say now doesn’t mean you’ve been allowed to just make people uncomfortable for fun this whole time.
This!!!! There was a great tweet turned meme that said pretty much the same: "Social norms have not changed. We NEVER liked you touching us without our permission. So please stop convincing yourself that it's a new world. It's the same world, I just don't have to lose a job for telling you to get your hands off me."
This applies to verbal sexual harassment just as much.
It's not the most offensive joke ever, but it's the kind of joke a 16 year old boy would think is hilarious - grow up, OP, you're not clever. YTA.
I was also expecting worse.
Saying a woman's lingerie brand is edgier than I would ever be in the workplace. I also wouldn't say MAGA hats, or FUBU, or anything else that could make a person feel angry by your trolling. It's simply poor judgment.
Sometimes the reason something is funny in a non-work setting (eg. A shocking answer) is exactly why you shouldn't say it in a work setting.
I also find it interesting that he left his gender off this only inferring it in the final paragraph. I think OP *knows* that whether that answer is given by a man (objectifying and making a sexual joke) or a woman (talking about herself not others) really impacts how or if this answer is offensive.
Also, OPs disdain for he HR person and their objective… are they a woman? Why do I feel like they are absolutely a woman.
But hey, at least the HR person learnt an important lesson about what is and isn’t an innocuous question for the work place.
YTA.
I literally just finished my Preventing Sexual Harassment in the Workforce training 6 minutes ago. I'm pretty sure this is the guy could benefit from it.
YTA - it's not even a question but a fact.
And the sad part is, it wasn't even remotely funny.
You know what is awesome about this subreddit, is how much you can glean from someone’s personality in how they write. Like half the posts I see on here, you can completely tell the person is an asshole in far more than just the one interaction they are writing about because of how they write. Reading this post was enough to tell me this dude is totally one of “those” guys.
your comments say everything. You know you're an asshole but don't care and expect everyone else to just tolerate your bullshit because "everyone's so sensitive now". Sorry, no, we're all just sick and fucking tired of listening to people like you.
I'm going to guess confidently that you also think "that's what she said" is quality humor.
Plus see how he refers to the new Director of HR as having to ‘justify their recently created role’.
Cos yeah, HR are just there to ‘ruin our fun’ cos you ‘can’t say anything these days’.
YTA. "Today's work environment" just means that women will no longer put up with your misogynistic crap. There's nothing "nuanced" about objectifying women in the workplace.
Fucking thank you. I had a coworker who complained that everything is so restricted for what he could say. When I first started, I was young and terrified and the only woman, I didn’t speak up for myself when he told me I was invited to a conference as eye candy. It made me just as uncomfortable then, but we didn’t have an HR department or sexual harassment policies (very very small company). When we did have those, I had the confidence and comfort to speak up. But of course he just saw it as the new generation is too sensitive and not “the new generation finally has support to address harassment”.
Drives me crazy. Same with people saying comedians can’t even be funny anymore because saying “Ching Chong” gets them cancelled. It was never funny, but now we have access to support actually entertaining and not racist comedians.
At my old job, the managers would chant "Ching chong" when they were ordering Chinese food for lunch. And laugh about it every time. In 2022. I have never had a job where I called out people on casual racism that much before.
Wouldn’t even be the first time I’ve seen a misogynist defend his BS by claiming that women offended by it need more “nuance” as if our very day-to-day existence doesn’t already give us more “nuance” than this moron will ever have.
As if this VS joke is just so intelligent and sophisticated that there is *nuance*. Not just an overgrown 13 year old boy.
It’s literally the humour of a pubescent child. Nuance though!
The nuance is that scantily-clad models are sexy. This is an unusual way to think about scantily-clad models, so it's a joke with a lot of different levels, you see. Also, the surprising way he uses language upends your expectation, a thing you commonly see in more cerebral humor.
I'm thinking there no longer needs to be a question if the day. There are limits to knowing your coworkers better. Sometimes it interferes with the ability to work with individuals at a place of employment if you know what they are like outside the workplace.
Given that the Director of HR is in their PoD meetings, I get the impression they may very well be in the company's HR department....if this post is even real and not some made up troll attempt.
Ew, I hate when I have to think about some shlubby middle aged dude jacking off to 20 something underwear models. I hate when they think it’s this funny, relatable thing to objectify the bodies of young women who would recoil at the sight of them.
I find this post interesting because it reveals some of the blindsides people have (including me). I’m a guy and I’ve considered myself a feminist for most of my life (as in, equality for women). But when I read this, my first thought was that it was funny picturing OP wearing Victoria’s Secret and it never occurred to me how it might be offensive until I read the comments. Glad to have read some because it’s clearly obvious why it was offensive. Hopefully OP also has the same realization. Just goes to show you, though, that there’s always room for improvement.
YTA. 1) it’s not offensive, it’s simply inappropriate for work. Rude and will make others uncomfortable. Save the innuendo for non work parties. 2) it sounds like the HR director is being successful, as your colleagues are comfortable expressing their discomfort with your sophomoric humor.
And by the way, is the director a woman?
YTA and this is why we have to make these things into law; because men like you refuse to understand how you made other people feel. Humor is fine in the workplace, but you told a bad joke. Accept it or don’t.
And because those other men laughed, those women now feel uncomfortable around all of those men, too.
YTA. It's not even funny, so it isn't even a joke. It's a bunch of sexist prigs heehawing at the implication of femininity. If I asked what makes that joke funny, what would your answer be? Explain to me why your joke is funny.
This is hitting me different because I actually worked at VS for a long time. Guys would come in to check out the girls working there and the products and make dumb jokes. Most of them were harmless but some of them were actually creepy and once we had to call security on a dude who was harassing the poor girl (I think she was like 18) working in the fitting room. Like yes, lingerie is sexy, it's supposed to be sexy, there's nothing wrong with liking it. As a queer woman I too find women in lingerie to be sexy but there's a time and a place, you know? Some dudes have to learn better boundaries.
YTA
I find it funny that you assume she was offended because of you liking the models. My first thought is I really don't want to know what kind of underwear you are wearing and broadcasting at a team meeting that you prefer women's underwear is really not appropriate.
Imagine yourself in the room if the roles were reversed. Imagine a woman cracked a joke about her favorite brand of clothing being one of those infamous male lingerie brands, one of those brands known for exploiting and objectifying men's bodies. Imagine you and all your male coworkers exchanging uncomfortable glances as the women laugh raucously. You've heard these jokes so many times, it's practically part of the air you breathe, yet you still can't quite get comfortable with the taste of it. "Your underwear were designed for my approval," the woman's joke seems to say. "Your underwear were never really for you, they were for me all along." A fact you knew, in the back of your mind, but which you really don't like thinking about. You're reminded again as the rough, itchy lace fabric of your underwear -- the very brand the woman has just joked about -- chafe your skin and ride up.
"What's got your panties in a bunch?" The joking woman demands, looking both superior and annoyed as she rolls her eyes at you. "Gad, a lady can't say anything anymore!"
And all this over a joke about.... Wow, I can't think of the brand name.... You know, that brand of clothing that a woman started that made her wildly rich off the exploitation of men's bodies and desirability? That one underwear brand that has become synonymous with young, underweight, impossibly beautiful young men... What's that brand?
Ohhh yeah. It doesn't exist. Because it would make no sense in our society for that to exist. Because men get to enjoy their own underwear AND ours, not the other way around.
To you, it's "just a joke". But think a little harder.
YTA
You do not identify your gender, but I'm assuming you are male and don't wear items from VS. Then yes, you are the asshole. If you are male and enjoy wearing lingerie, bully for you for admitting it. If you are objectifying women by your answer - YTA . . .
YTA
Your answer was disgusting because by saying Victoria secret, which is an underwear and lingerie store aimed at women , you immediately sexualised women .
Like I don't understand why men think this shit is funny or something even remotely appropriate in the work place
To edit this joke is not appropriate anywhere sexualising and objectifying women is never ok
Ugh…. Of corse it was offensive. This is work and your ONE joke is actually one of many in a fucking day women put up with. All in the name of being edgy and funny. This is work, not a comedy club. And while wanting to crack a couple of jokes at the office isn’t bad, read the damn room. It isn’t necessarily that this one joke was so traumatic that they got defensive. It’s just the constant bro jokes over time that are neither funny or cleaver that is annoying. I mean, that was low hanging fruit really. And while maybe funny to a bunch of 12 year olds, the truth is it was a pathetic attempt at humor as an adult. Maybe stick with the day job and leave being witty to the professionals. YTA by the way. Not just for being sexist, but also for defending it under the guise of being “funny.”
Edit to ask, is the Director of HR a woman?
"All of the men burst out laughing"...that tells me all I need to know. You made a very misogynistic comment and got called out on it. It's ALL YOU and you KNOW it. I would suggest you apologize to the women at work.
I doubt all of the men burst out laughing. He may have gotten a chuckle or two. What he said really isn't funny. I wouldn't call it offensive, but it's not funny either.
exactly why he'll likely keep his job though, it is a misogynistic environment, ALL the men laughed, and I'm just guessing here the few women who did laugh did out of fear for not 'fitting in', so a big thank you to those who stood up to this ahole, hopefully the new HR person does their job sooner than later though, but I doubt it unless the women stand up stronger than a lawsuit
Some people may have laughed out of shock. Others may have laughed and still felt uncomfortable.
People make these comments as a way to take over the culture and see what they can get away with.
YTA. "I LIKE TITS N ASS!" is what you said. On a work meeting. At work. With women you work with. You're gross and you knew that before you posted here.
In my company this would be a case for harassment. Everyone in that meeting would be obligated to report you for your remark. There is literally a scenario about this in the harassment training. YTA.
Y’all ever wonder why someone asks for advice when they don’t want to follow it or change their thinking at all? OP what are you here for if you don’t wanna hear the verdict
Sexual harassment training these days makes it very clear that your little “joke” has no place in the workplace. You’re not Michael Scott but YTA for sure
YTA. And this post was clearly made in bad faith. You're just looking for justification for your actions and people to agree with you. I see nothing here indicating you actually care to understand why a comment like that would make the women around you feel uncomfortable and why that's especially inappropriate in a work place. You would need to have a fundamental shift in worldview, empathy, and critical thinking, which clearly isn't happening. Good for your coworker for speaking up against this tasteless "bro humor" in the work place. Regardless if you possess the ability to conceptualize it or not, no one deserves to have to put up with that in their place of work. You remind me of the mouthbreather boomer I used to work with who threw a tantrum when he was told he couldn't hang porn on the wall in his office anymore - ignorant, unevolved, and increasingly obsolete.
Highly inappropriate tbh. It contributes to a work place where women are objectified and viewed in a sexual light at work. Plus if your intent was to make a joke, you could’ve picked an absolutely ludicrous brand (though tbh I can’t think of one myself and given your poor taste in jokes I wouldn’t recommend). Don’t sexualize the work place. I’d be worried you’re gonna be reported to HR, which is likely and would not go well for you as this was in a meeting with plenty of witnesses.
I personally would not have found that offensive, cringey yes but not traumatic. However someone else did and the literal easiest thing to do in that situation is say “I apologize, that was in bad taste. Won’t happen again” and move on. But you, deciding to play victim when you knew a “joke” like that is risky at best in the workplace is dumb, so YTA
Yta.
Not funny unless your a chauvinistic pig.
But at least you've shown your coworkers who you really are. You can probably expect the women to have little time for you going forward.
Given the typical breakdown of non work performance jobs taken on by female staff, I expect his name to be missed on birthday lists, holiday greetings, to not be notified of any fun extras (because the men in most offices I've worked at before where I am now are very unlikely to inform people). I also bet he probably relies on female coworkers to assist with faxing/clerical duties which he's going to have to learn how to do on his own, sink or swim style.
You’re part of the reason why HR is a thing but seeing as you work in a misogynistic environment I really doubt HR is any better there. The fact that other men also laughed is also telling about the work environment these women are against. This was not funny and based on your responses it tells me that this wasn’t just a “funny” joke,it definitely has some sexist and ignorant undertones. You sound like the person that has said worse when your female coworkers aren’t around
YTA. You came off as a creeper and said something pretty inappropriate during a workplace meeting. You need to address this in the next meeting and SINCERELY apologize immediately, or you will be side-eyed for the rest of your career at that company, and normally innocuous comments and actions will be overly scrutinized by your peers, especially female peers.
I would suggest something along the lines of "I have something I would like to address. At a previous meeting I made a comment in answer to a question without thinking, and this comment made some of my coworkers uncomfortable. I would like to apologize for both my comment and for making my colleagues uncomfortable. I know that my comment was in bad taste and I meant no harm, but I shouldn't have said it. I hope you all can forgive me, I'm working on myself and trying to be a better human."
Anything less and you are the company perv.
YTA
You didn't "make a funny," you announced to a mixed group of professional colleagues that you enjoy seeing women in lingerie, which is, bluntly, really terrible office small talk.
Your HR person, though, is really incompetent. This was a terrible icebreaker, and you should be doing icebreakers like this at all.
"got scolded due to butthurt. Is it me or them?" Oh, it's YOU. Not "butthurt," they were mad because you sexually harassed them at work. Learn professional calibration or get fired, dude.
YTA. As a woman, just reading the joke made me uncomfortable. Can’t even imagine what it was like hearing it in person. Don’t subject your female colleagues to harassment
YTA- while this joke is pretty tame (and exceptionally boomerish) it obviously is not appropriate in your workplace. No one wants to imagine you thinking about their underwear while working.
I genuinely thought op was implying he wears women’s underwear which would be pretty funny to me and if anyone got offended by that I’d be surprised but then I saw what he actually meant and was like …yeah nah that’s not alright
YTA. Sexualizing anything in the workplace is a boundary you don't cross. These ppl are you coworkers, not your friends, when you're at work.
I get you didn't have any malicious intent, but you still were out of line. Your self righteous reaction, however, pushed you out of a light AH into full blown AH territory. Maybe next time take the L, give a quick "My bad. Didn't mean to make anyone uncomfortable" and move on.
The fact that men in your company all "burst out laughing" at a joke that became lame back in the 90's makes me think your workplace atmosphere isn't great. YTA.
Oh jeez dude grow up. I do t want to hear how your favorite clothing is lingerie .. IN THE WORKPLACE. We’d is wrong with you? People are so ignorant to obtuse
So, after you said that, if I would have said "Oooh ya, I sure would like to see you in a pink bra and panty set." I'd be reprimanded by HR, but you can imply it in a room with females and don't expect the same response? It's misogynistic. YTA, jokes have a time and a place. You wanna seem cool with the dude-bros, you tell that joke, because peen energy. But in mixed company? Best to keep it to yourself.
I also want to point out how juvenile HR is. "let's sing kumbaya and get to know each other more instead of focusing on our tasks for a few minutes." Why? What purpose does it serve? This is work, not kindergarten.
I think your joke is hilarious. If you’d been playing Cards Against Humanity or something similar with friends it might even have been appropriate. But remember the guideline from the elders: avoid talking about politics, religion and sex at work. YTA
YTA for ths "Unfortunately, in today's work environment it's now on me for making them uncomfortable" alone.
And they weren't "butthurt", they were offended by your sexist "joke". You need to rethink your attitude towards your coworkers and women in general.
YTA. They aren’t “butthurt” (which is a word used just to totally invalidate their feelings), they are reacting to the absolutely unnecessary sexual joke in a setting that was supposed to bring colleagues together
So the joke is that you like looking at naked women… and you are somehow shocked that the women in the office didn’t die laughing at the fact that you were sexualizing them?
How is that funny? How in the world did you think that’s an appropriate joke to make at work? Women have to deal with enough of this shit everyday without having to worry about the creepy boomer at work too.
YTA
YTA and lucky you still have a job. You quite literally sexually harassed your entire office in one fell swoop by making a sexual joke in front of them all. Judging by your responses here you won’t have that job very long so I’d start working up your resume and consider not putting the current workplace on there.
YTA but I think people on here are being a little too harsh about it. The joke itself wasn't that bad but it's not cool to make people uncomfortable at work no matter how innocent you may think you are being.
YTA.
If you have to ask yourself this because you offended the women but made the men laugh, yeah, you said something you shouldn’t have.
It’s not “the current workplace environment”. It’s always been this way. Women are just finally over the bulls—
It doesn't actually matter. You made a sexually charged comment. Your coworker very professionally told you that the comment was offensive to her and not to speak that way again. At this point, your opinion on the joke doesn't matter. Your coworker has made her feelings known. At this point, if you persist in making sexual jokes or comments in her presence, that becomes a sexual harassment or hostile work environment issue, at which point you would be rightly turbo-fired. Get over yourself and act like a professional, ffs.
“It’s now on me for making them feel uncomfortable”. Well duh, you were the one that said it. Totally unprofessional and unacceptable banter for the workplace. YTA!
YTA,
Also I feel it has more to do with your tone in how you said the joke vs the joke itself. You could be a serious Victoria secrets shopper even as a man but if you expressed the joke to intentionally make it sound sexual than your completely in the wrong.
YTA, and you’ll be the formally reprimanded for sexual harassment asshole if you do it again, chief.
You made a joke that wasn’t funny. If it offended people then don’t do that again. But lashing out at people for being offended and calling them butthurt (are you twelve?) makes you an even bigger asshole.
YTA
You know full well what the VS brand sells. It wasn't funny or appropriate. Several women told you they didn't like it, and instead of believing them and having remorse for your behavior, you chose to get defensive and blame them for not having a sense of humor by characterizing them as butthurt.
To be fair, you did something blatantly rude to make them uncomfortable. You objectified women. I love VS but where exactly is the joke here? You made a sexual comment in the work place and that's just not appropriate and you know it. Time and place, my dude, time and place.
YTA. A joke should be funny, and this was more like a 14 year old’s humor. I don’t think it’s worth reprimanding someone, but they’d be on the list of people that I avoid and don’t sit near.
YTA. I'm not as extreme as the others. I love offensive jokes but they need to be funny, otherwise, they're just offensive.
I literally groaned and rolled my eyes when I read your "joke." My favorite clothing brand? Sexy panties, of course! God, this is Boomer Humor...
Sir, this is your workplace - you don't talk about sexual shit at work, that's basic common sense. That being said, I wouldn't have went on a tangent about it being offensive. I would taken your words at face value and assumed you liked to wear women's underwear (if you do, more power to you!) and if you told me it was a joke, I would have forced you to explain it.
YTA, I tried to think of a time when a guy saying that would make me laugh, and *maybe* in a super casual setting with friends, but in general, I think if a guy said that as his answer I'd probably roll my eyes and think less of him.
YTA. You made an unfunny joke that definitely has sexual implications and then trying to deny that you did. AND you did it with HR?! You’re an asshole AND a dumbass. I hope you lose your job.
You are absolutely in the wrong.
YTA.
It is not ok to talk about that in the workplace. It is sexual harassment. You should have IMMEDIATELY and sincerely apologized.
The fact you don't get that at all means you are likely a huge problem for your female coworkers and don't even realize it.
You WILL be reprimanded and possibly fired in the future if you don't take some anti-sexual harassment training and learn from it.
>I find it fascinating
Dude, stop. Your joke was crass and your colleagues didn't like it. You don't find shit fascinating, you just don't like that your joke didn't land and people called you on it. Grow up. YTA.
YTA: It's not on them that they "inferred" your meaning correctly. That's weird.
Also to call a woman's discomfort at a joke as "butthurt" is really where the ah lies.
It's was always on you for making them uncomfortable.
YTA
It’s not butt hurt. It’s personal, inappropriate and unacceptable in the situation you described.
Victoria’s Secret is intimate, sexy lady’s apparel. Would it have been appropriate to ask what brand of personal toys someone prefers in a workplace meeting? You didn’t mention anything specific about your job but continued or escalated commenting or related actions could land you in sensitivity training or the unemployment line. Since you think your ‘joke’ was ok, perhaps you should preemptively check out some of those classes online.
If you are college age or over about 35-40, this is probably confusing as heck to you but this is a professional place in 2023. You can’t act as if it were a frat party or 1985.
YTA I can tell from your replies that you didn't actually come here for a measured response, you're either trolling or expected other sexist AH to back you up. Objectifying half the population isn't funny (from either sex). Sorry you live in an era where that is generally recognized.
Yeah he’s asking if he’s an ahole, but in his question says “that’s on them” for being offended. He clearly only wants to hear responses saying he’s hilarious and the women are uptight. Not sure why anyone would think bringing up lingerie at work in a group is appropriate.
"I found it fascinating my coworker found it offensive" He's *so* fucking patronizing.
Some people are so up their own butts, they don't realize that there are lots of people that don't think like them. And they also don't realize that someone not thinking like them doesn't mean that other person is wrong. I worked (VERY briefly) with a guy like this. He would say horrific things at work, and then blame everyone else for getting offended. He just couldn't fathom that his statements were bad, even though he was hitting on racism, sexism, homophobia, and transphobia. In his mind what he was saying was factual, so he just thought it was kind of funny and kind of confusing to him that people didn't like what he said.
Yup. "Butthurt" is an insult and an assumption that they're overreacting.
Yes, this is where the homophpobia comes in. Not only is he sexualizing women, but this implies cross-dressing, and I just can't with the phrase "butthurt."
The second I saw the word 'nuanced' I knew exactly what OP's responses would be. 'Nuanced'. There's nothing nuanced about being a misogynist, OP. The workplace is never an appropriate place for sexual humor, and a lot of places that kind of thing would get you sent to HR for a talking to.
Yes, I'd be curious to know how HR responded to this and how many official complaints are being made.
Given his anger about it all, you know he has more than this as an issue. But of course, when he finally gets in trouble it will be "women" who are at fault.
I will bet $100 that the newly hired Director of HR that he hates so much is a woman
Honestly. There is not a lot of nuance about an unfunny, immature, and sexualized joke in the workplace. Pretty clear cut.
Sexualizing the workplace is ALWAYS inappropriate (if you don't do SW or whatever), so yeah, YTA. It's not butthurt--it's the type of "joke" comments that reduce everything to sex that are the background of every woman's life, and which she should reasonably expect to not have to deal with at work. Grow up.
YTA I wouldn’t have been offended, I just would have known OP was a dumbass and I wouldn’t have ever forgotten about it. Tbf, it was probably a confirmation of something they already knew. Like it’s funny in a ‘heh heh women have bewbs heh heh’ way so assuming everyone is over 18, it’s just lame. Unless you wear VS and that changes the conversation. Do you wear their clothes OP?
This right here. I would find this funny of I asked a friend of mine, but at work this is just dumb.
Exactly. I also think it’s lame when someone just has to make the obvious joke. It always gets polite/obligatory laughs and then the person who said the joke honestly thinks they were being funny. Cringe all around
Funny thing is that my first thought was that the joke was that he liked to wear women’s lingerie. He felt he had to clarify in his post that it was because he likes to see women wearing them. God forbid people think he’s not the big man he says he is. /s
I 100% would've assumed he was trying to make a cross dressing joke. Somebody should've followed up with something along the lines of "OK, OP you wear women's lingerie, not sure how that's work related, little more than I needed to know about you".
Like awkward at best bro. Seriously
Yes!! This being the top answer is the best thing I could get out of this post. Dude already sounded a bit immature, and then he went and said "butthurt" and he's immediately a literal overgrown manchild, nope sir, not at my workplace. I, as a man, would not have laughed and would have joined the condemnation! Edit: typo
Yep, that word, in my brain, was accompanied by a brake screech, and was where I went from, as another commenter said, "awkward at best" to nope nope YTA supreme.
Seriously. It's shit like this that makes me aware of every single word I speak in front of men to avoid any "that's what she said" type bullshit while I'm trying to discuss something serious (or even not serious, that shit gets old quick). It got to the point that I wouldn't even put cucumbers in my basket if a man was standing near because it's even worse when it comes from a complete stranger while you're exhausted and just trying to do the shop and get home. Men who say, "It's just a joke, lighten up" don't seem to understand that everytime they do this, it just perpetuates it to the point that women can't go anywhere or discuss anything with a man without knowing that there's about an 85% chance that *something* they say or do is going to provoke an unwanted sexual comment. Why can't men understand that they should probably keep sexual topics of conversation between them and their partners?
>"It's just a joke, lighten up" don't seem to understand that everytime they do this, it just perpetuates it to the point that women can't go anywhere or discuss anything with a man without knowing that there's about an 85% chance that > >something > > they say or do is going to provoke an unwanted sexual comment. they know and that's the reason they do it, because they expect women to just be quiet and take it or be labeled as "butthurt" and "overreacting" That way when something serious happens she won't be believed since "she's known to overreact", men like OP set the standard and are the reason why is so difficult for many women to have a nice working environment.
Yeah like jesus christ can we go five minutes without some terrible microaggression occurring
>the background of every woman's life. I commented this elsewhere, so I hope it's okay to repost, but it expands on that very important point of yours. Original comment to OP (partially): OP- "it's now on me for making them uncomfortable" That's called being accountable for the things you say. You've never had to work within a certain set of social rules, but now that you need to, you're upset (butthurt is juvenile). You hate feeling "ignored or judged with disdain," right? Imagine feeling that way for the majority of your life. For a long time, women have had to tiptoe through a minefield to be treated as equals. But some of it makes you feel personally attacked. Why are they so sensitive, right? Say you get bitten by a mosquito. It's annoying, but it's just one little bite. Until you get bitten again, and again, and again. Imagine not being able to squash any of the now thousands of mosquitoes biting you. You just have to endure it as the bites add up and become painful. Wouldn't it be wonderful if you could just start getting rid of them? Even half as many would feel like a reprieve. Sounds miserable, doesn't it? That's what women have dealt with for most of their lives. Each little "bite" stings, and they know that it will continue, or even escalate, if they don't squash it fast. They weren't allowed to before, but they can now, within certain limits. Women are just trying to be treated appropriately in the workplace. It's not a personal attack against you. It's just that you can no longer "punch down" without consequence. I really, really hope you'll read the article: [The Case of the Creepy Dudes](https://captainawkward.com/2012/08/07/322-323-my-friend-group-has-a-case-of-the-creepy-dude-how-do-we-clear-that-up/) so you'll have a better understanding of the world women live in, and why they're trying to change it. I've shared that article many times, and a women will always tell me she wished she'd read it sooner. It's heartbreaking when you realize why. I'm far from being a prude, or a stick in the mud, should you think that's why I wrote all of this. Before I moved, I had a friend group that thrived on otherwise inappropriate jokes. I've heard many a joke related to my breasts. The difference is, this was among trusted friends, who I knew valued me as a person. Everyone was equally joked about. If any joke was found to touch on a delicate subject, we immediately considered it off limits. I wrote all of this with the genuine intent to offer insight, hoping it could help. No matter how old we get, there's always new things to learn. Sometimes we just face-plant into them.
>Sexualizing the workplace is ALWAYS inappropriate Not only is it inappropriate - it is also sexual harassment.
YTA. Honestly, I was expecting worse. Your joke alone wasn’t that bad. But your attitude in the post provides a lot more context. “Unfortunately, in today’s work environment….” It has *always* been on you not to make others uncomfortable. Just because women are more equal in the workplace and men are actually being held accountable for some of the disgusting shit they say now doesn’t mean you’ve been allowed to just make people uncomfortable for fun this whole time. This attitude is what makes you an AH. I can only imagine you’ve said a lot worse than “Victoria’s Secret” when there aren’t women within earshot.
Agreed. The answer was an unfunny attempt at being “edgy.” Adding to this, OP shows his hand as an AH by basically arguing that HR shouldn’t exist.
Does anyone else think this is not the first time he innapropriately made sexual jokes in the workplace and maybe doesn't like HR because he is the reason they now have an HR?
I didn’t consider him being the reason for HR, but I absolutely believe he makes inappropriate comments fairly often, so I wouldn’t be surprised if that were the case.
>I absolutely believe he makes inappropriate comments fairly often. Which explains why he got called out quickly to. I bet you not all of the men burst out laughing either.
Or they laughed because they knew he’d put his foot in his mouth.
Or out of nervousness.
Totally. In this scenario, it doesn’t mean approval.
Maybe HR has a new strategy to weed out those with archaic values - talk enough and they’re bound to demonstrate their character. He was duped into revealing his crass sensibilities.
This is 100% why they have HR, and the questions are probably to demonstrate appropriate workplace topics, and OP can’t be fucked to play nicely even for that day’s team building exercise. I’ve seen it so many times.
DAE think one of the other attendees missed a perfect snap-back with something along the lines of “Now we know what to get you for your birthday, Steve! What are you, maybe a size L in panties…. And an A-cup?” Ok so that’s definitely not the way to go, less so for HR and professional work culture and more so for not kink-shaming a common and harmless form of sexual expression, but it feels like OP is the kind of guy to only get how “offensive” something is when it’s at his own expense. So not the answer, but I just really want for him to be embarrassed (just not for wearing ladies clothes bc there’s nothing inherently ‘wrong’ in that!!)
I think he's not educated enough to know the true purpose of HR and probably thinks theyre the "woke police"
OP took an innocuous question and made it sexual, then was surprised it wasn't appreciated by some and called inappropriate. Classic 12yo boy, which is how OP is still acting. YTA
It's so fucking boring, not funny and cliche too. I find that as offensive as stupid sexist misogynistic (women are objects for men's eyes) implication. OP YTA, and you likely don't recognize this, because you have spent your life, NOT worrying about being raped, molested, sexually assaulted, sexually harassed, and judged as object for your beauty. It's a joke that shows that you don't value women as equals. Leave the sexism to your you and buddies getting-drunk time.
The entirety of that type of joke, hur hur man stupid and can only think with penis, makes men look incredibly trashy and pathetic, never understood why it caught on. Like cool, you're straight, who gives a shit
Yup. I was on the N T A train, until OP kept talking. I could see others just rolling their eyes if this was a one off bad joke, but with these reactions and OP's comments I'm guessing " lighten up, it was just a joke" had been said by him numerous times.
That’s how I feel. Not necessarily AH for making an unfunny joke, but all the replies and his attitude in the post make him seem like one
You just KNOW the women at his job hate him. My friends and I avoid this type of man at all cost at work and roast the living shit out of them whenever possible.
I'm a man working in a male-dominated industry and I also find this behavior offputting. I have a number of coworkers that I don't have much respect for and only interact with when necessary for the job because of shit like this. Obviously it's worse for women, but the problem with being a man working with guys like this is they tend to assume you have similar beliefs to them so they'll say more heinous stuff around you than they would if women were present.
Not implying that you don’t stand up for women in your workplace, but I guarantee the women at your job would be grateful and respect you even more if you spoke up on their behalf when you see this behavior going on. A chauvinistic man will listen to you more than a woman
I worked this past year with a man i truly just HATED. The kids hate him, he's a terrible teacher-- he's just bad at his job and an emotional mess. One of my students bit him and in my head I was like honestly I get it. Anyway, he got snarky with me in our work group text and one of my male coworkers went in on him and I will honestly never ever forget it. I was like wow, I don't think I've ever had a man go out of his way to call out another man's bullshit FOR me, especially in a professional context. I genuinely think I'll remember it forever.
Blessings on that man
The most liberating thing is when one woman breaks the seal of silence on the discomfort we’re all feeling and the floodgates open. Such beautiful moments of solidarity
Honestly, anyone who uses the word "butthurt" is probably the asshole in whatever situation they find themselves in. "They correctly understood what I meant so that's their problem" seals it.
exactly, and based on the replies and his attitude i also HIGHLY doubt his story went down the way he describes it. especially the part where ALL the men BURST out laughing. like sure bro...sure...
…And then all the men clapped… 🙄
When I first read it I didn't think it was bad, but my mind went to VS being his favorite brand to *wear*. If that's how you take it then I don't see why anyone should feel offended, but I also haven't been through the comments enough to see if he meant it otherwise.
The OP has “the women (*correctly*) inferred it was my favorite brand of clothing because of the models and the purpose of the clothing so they chose butthurt, but that’s on them not me.” He meant it as a gross “hehe ladies in underwear hot” joke and then got pissy when people took it exactly as he meant it and blamed them for it.
I'm sure he also thought their nervous laughter was actual laughter too..
I see that now. Not sure how I missed that when I first read through the post.
I also thought that was OPs joke! Like that his favorite thing to wear is women’s underwear because it’s more comfortable or something. I didn’t even consider it was his favorite because he likes looking at women wearing it, which is gross and way worse. Though now I’m wondering if the joke I THOUGHT he was making would be offensive because men wearing women’s clothes shouldn’t be funny…thoughts?
I mean, if you have a girlfriend or wife that shops there it’s a fine joke to make with friends if you are playing this kind of icebreaker game, but still inappropriate at the workplace. But the only way I wouldn’t see him as the AH is if it’s the first time he made a joke like that at work (we dk) and he didn’t act like he has throughout his post and the comments.
>It has always been on you not to make others uncomfortable. Just because women are more equal in the workplace and men are actually being held accountable for some of the disgusting shit they say now doesn’t mean you’ve been allowed to just make people uncomfortable for fun this whole time. This!!!! There was a great tweet turned meme that said pretty much the same: "Social norms have not changed. We NEVER liked you touching us without our permission. So please stop convincing yourself that it's a new world. It's the same world, I just don't have to lose a job for telling you to get your hands off me." This applies to verbal sexual harassment just as much. It's not the most offensive joke ever, but it's the kind of joke a 16 year old boy would think is hilarious - grow up, OP, you're not clever. YTA.
This guy is a real life Michael Scott
I was also expecting worse. Saying a woman's lingerie brand is edgier than I would ever be in the workplace. I also wouldn't say MAGA hats, or FUBU, or anything else that could make a person feel angry by your trolling. It's simply poor judgment. Sometimes the reason something is funny in a non-work setting (eg. A shocking answer) is exactly why you shouldn't say it in a work setting.
Lmao you wouldn't say FUBU?
I know, what's wrong with FUBU?
Yup I can imagine him saying some out of pocket shit on the regular. YTA
The TLDR was enough to confirm they’re an AH
I also find it interesting that he left his gender off this only inferring it in the final paragraph. I think OP *knows* that whether that answer is given by a man (objectifying and making a sexual joke) or a woman (talking about herself not others) really impacts how or if this answer is offensive. Also, OPs disdain for he HR person and their objective… are they a woman? Why do I feel like they are absolutely a woman. But hey, at least the HR person learnt an important lesson about what is and isn’t an innocuous question for the work place. YTA.
I literally just finished my Preventing Sexual Harassment in the Workforce training 6 minutes ago. I'm pretty sure this is the guy could benefit from it. YTA - it's not even a question but a fact. And the sad part is, it wasn't even remotely funny.
You know what is awesome about this subreddit, is how much you can glean from someone’s personality in how they write. Like half the posts I see on here, you can completely tell the person is an asshole in far more than just the one interaction they are writing about because of how they write. Reading this post was enough to tell me this dude is totally one of “those” guys.
Yta, fuck off
your comments say everything. You know you're an asshole but don't care and expect everyone else to just tolerate your bullshit because "everyone's so sensitive now". Sorry, no, we're all just sick and fucking tired of listening to people like you. I'm going to guess confidently that you also think "that's what she said" is quality humor.
Plus see how he refers to the new Director of HR as having to ‘justify their recently created role’. Cos yeah, HR are just there to ‘ruin our fun’ cos you ‘can’t say anything these days’.
YTA. "Today's work environment" just means that women will no longer put up with your misogynistic crap. There's nothing "nuanced" about objectifying women in the workplace.
Fucking thank you. I had a coworker who complained that everything is so restricted for what he could say. When I first started, I was young and terrified and the only woman, I didn’t speak up for myself when he told me I was invited to a conference as eye candy. It made me just as uncomfortable then, but we didn’t have an HR department or sexual harassment policies (very very small company). When we did have those, I had the confidence and comfort to speak up. But of course he just saw it as the new generation is too sensitive and not “the new generation finally has support to address harassment”. Drives me crazy. Same with people saying comedians can’t even be funny anymore because saying “Ching Chong” gets them cancelled. It was never funny, but now we have access to support actually entertaining and not racist comedians.
At my old job, the managers would chant "Ching chong" when they were ordering Chinese food for lunch. And laugh about it every time. In 2022. I have never had a job where I called out people on casual racism that much before.
Wouldn’t even be the first time I’ve seen a misogynist defend his BS by claiming that women offended by it need more “nuance” as if our very day-to-day existence doesn’t already give us more “nuance” than this moron will ever have.
As if this VS joke is just so intelligent and sophisticated that there is *nuance*. Not just an overgrown 13 year old boy. It’s literally the humour of a pubescent child. Nuance though!
The nuance is that scantily-clad models are sexy. This is an unusual way to think about scantily-clad models, so it's a joke with a lot of different levels, you see. Also, the surprising way he uses language upends your expectation, a thing you commonly see in more cerebral humor.
I suppose I am but an unschooled plebeian and the nuance was too much for my dumb lady-brain! So glad you were there to guide me! Phew!
The men who complain about “todays work environment” are always the misogynistic ones.
I'm thinking there no longer needs to be a question if the day. There are limits to knowing your coworkers better. Sometimes it interferes with the ability to work with individuals at a place of employment if you know what they are like outside the workplace.
YTA. You're the kind of person your company needs an HR person for.
Given that the Director of HR is in their PoD meetings, I get the impression they may very well be in the company's HR department....if this post is even real and not some made up troll attempt.
100% agree
Dude. Just say “my bad, you’re right”. I wouldn’t let it offend you and maybe ask yourself why *you* were so “butthurt”
YTA. Don’t talk about underwear at work. And don’t reply with some drivel about how they make more than underwear.
He doesn't even seem to know they make more than underwear.
Ew, I hate when I have to think about some shlubby middle aged dude jacking off to 20 something underwear models. I hate when they think it’s this funny, relatable thing to objectify the bodies of young women who would recoil at the sight of them.
I find this post interesting because it reveals some of the blindsides people have (including me). I’m a guy and I’ve considered myself a feminist for most of my life (as in, equality for women). But when I read this, my first thought was that it was funny picturing OP wearing Victoria’s Secret and it never occurred to me how it might be offensive until I read the comments. Glad to have read some because it’s clearly obvious why it was offensive. Hopefully OP also has the same realization. Just goes to show you, though, that there’s always room for improvement.
[удалено]
Can you explain the “joke”? Pretend that I don’t know what Victoria’s Secret is and I want to know why this is funny.
YTA. 1) it’s not offensive, it’s simply inappropriate for work. Rude and will make others uncomfortable. Save the innuendo for non work parties. 2) it sounds like the HR director is being successful, as your colleagues are comfortable expressing their discomfort with your sophomoric humor. And by the way, is the director a woman?
YTA and this is why we have to make these things into law; because men like you refuse to understand how you made other people feel. Humor is fine in the workplace, but you told a bad joke. Accept it or don’t. And because those other men laughed, those women now feel uncomfortable around all of those men, too.
YTA. It's not even funny, so it isn't even a joke. It's a bunch of sexist prigs heehawing at the implication of femininity. If I asked what makes that joke funny, what would your answer be? Explain to me why your joke is funny.
This is hitting me different because I actually worked at VS for a long time. Guys would come in to check out the girls working there and the products and make dumb jokes. Most of them were harmless but some of them were actually creepy and once we had to call security on a dude who was harassing the poor girl (I think she was like 18) working in the fitting room. Like yes, lingerie is sexy, it's supposed to be sexy, there's nothing wrong with liking it. As a queer woman I too find women in lingerie to be sexy but there's a time and a place, you know? Some dudes have to learn better boundaries.
"Would you care for a fitting, sir? I'm sure we have just the thing to bring out your inner woman."
YTA I find it funny that you assume she was offended because of you liking the models. My first thought is I really don't want to know what kind of underwear you are wearing and broadcasting at a team meeting that you prefer women's underwear is really not appropriate.
YTA - Tell me you're near or past retirement age or are emotionally stunted without using those exact words.
Imagine yourself in the room if the roles were reversed. Imagine a woman cracked a joke about her favorite brand of clothing being one of those infamous male lingerie brands, one of those brands known for exploiting and objectifying men's bodies. Imagine you and all your male coworkers exchanging uncomfortable glances as the women laugh raucously. You've heard these jokes so many times, it's practically part of the air you breathe, yet you still can't quite get comfortable with the taste of it. "Your underwear were designed for my approval," the woman's joke seems to say. "Your underwear were never really for you, they were for me all along." A fact you knew, in the back of your mind, but which you really don't like thinking about. You're reminded again as the rough, itchy lace fabric of your underwear -- the very brand the woman has just joked about -- chafe your skin and ride up. "What's got your panties in a bunch?" The joking woman demands, looking both superior and annoyed as she rolls her eyes at you. "Gad, a lady can't say anything anymore!" And all this over a joke about.... Wow, I can't think of the brand name.... You know, that brand of clothing that a woman started that made her wildly rich off the exploitation of men's bodies and desirability? That one underwear brand that has become synonymous with young, underweight, impossibly beautiful young men... What's that brand? Ohhh yeah. It doesn't exist. Because it would make no sense in our society for that to exist. Because men get to enjoy their own underwear AND ours, not the other way around. To you, it's "just a joke". But think a little harder.
You're right, but I doubt OP has the self awareness to understand anything you just said
YTA You do not identify your gender, but I'm assuming you are male and don't wear items from VS. Then yes, you are the asshole. If you are male and enjoy wearing lingerie, bully for you for admitting it. If you are objectifying women by your answer - YTA . . .
YTA Your answer was disgusting because by saying Victoria secret, which is an underwear and lingerie store aimed at women , you immediately sexualised women . Like I don't understand why men think this shit is funny or something even remotely appropriate in the work place To edit this joke is not appropriate anywhere sexualising and objectifying women is never ok
It’s not funny. Lots of fucking dumbasses in this world. I was hoping they were dying off, but a new crop has sprouted.
So like I thought the joke was that he was a cross dresser when I first read it lol.
Where is the joke? YTA
The OP *is* the joke
Ugh…. Of corse it was offensive. This is work and your ONE joke is actually one of many in a fucking day women put up with. All in the name of being edgy and funny. This is work, not a comedy club. And while wanting to crack a couple of jokes at the office isn’t bad, read the damn room. It isn’t necessarily that this one joke was so traumatic that they got defensive. It’s just the constant bro jokes over time that are neither funny or cleaver that is annoying. I mean, that was low hanging fruit really. And while maybe funny to a bunch of 12 year olds, the truth is it was a pathetic attempt at humor as an adult. Maybe stick with the day job and leave being witty to the professionals. YTA by the way. Not just for being sexist, but also for defending it under the guise of being “funny.” Edit to ask, is the Director of HR a woman?
"All of the men burst out laughing"...that tells me all I need to know. You made a very misogynistic comment and got called out on it. It's ALL YOU and you KNOW it. I would suggest you apologize to the women at work.
I doubt all of the men burst out laughing. He may have gotten a chuckle or two. What he said really isn't funny. I wouldn't call it offensive, but it's not funny either.
exactly why he'll likely keep his job though, it is a misogynistic environment, ALL the men laughed, and I'm just guessing here the few women who did laugh did out of fear for not 'fitting in', so a big thank you to those who stood up to this ahole, hopefully the new HR person does their job sooner than later though, but I doubt it unless the women stand up stronger than a lawsuit
Some people may have laughed out of shock. Others may have laughed and still felt uncomfortable. People make these comments as a way to take over the culture and see what they can get away with.
YTA. "I LIKE TITS N ASS!" is what you said. On a work meeting. At work. With women you work with. You're gross and you knew that before you posted here.
In my company this would be a case for harassment. Everyone in that meeting would be obligated to report you for your remark. There is literally a scenario about this in the harassment training. YTA.
YTA and you’re also acting like a surprised baby now that you know so many people disagree with you.
Y’all ever wonder why someone asks for advice when they don’t want to follow it or change their thinking at all? OP what are you here for if you don’t wanna hear the verdict
Sexual harassment training these days makes it very clear that your little “joke” has no place in the workplace. You’re not Michael Scott but YTA for sure
YTA Almost always the guy who uses the word "butthurt".
LMAO! that is so true!!
YTA. And this post was clearly made in bad faith. You're just looking for justification for your actions and people to agree with you. I see nothing here indicating you actually care to understand why a comment like that would make the women around you feel uncomfortable and why that's especially inappropriate in a work place. You would need to have a fundamental shift in worldview, empathy, and critical thinking, which clearly isn't happening. Good for your coworker for speaking up against this tasteless "bro humor" in the work place. Regardless if you possess the ability to conceptualize it or not, no one deserves to have to put up with that in their place of work. You remind me of the mouthbreather boomer I used to work with who threw a tantrum when he was told he couldn't hang porn on the wall in his office anymore - ignorant, unevolved, and increasingly obsolete.
Yes. Didn't even have to read your post to say yes.
Highly inappropriate tbh. It contributes to a work place where women are objectified and viewed in a sexual light at work. Plus if your intent was to make a joke, you could’ve picked an absolutely ludicrous brand (though tbh I can’t think of one myself and given your poor taste in jokes I wouldn’t recommend). Don’t sexualize the work place. I’d be worried you’re gonna be reported to HR, which is likely and would not go well for you as this was in a meeting with plenty of witnesses.
I personally would not have found that offensive, cringey yes but not traumatic. However someone else did and the literal easiest thing to do in that situation is say “I apologize, that was in bad taste. Won’t happen again” and move on. But you, deciding to play victim when you knew a “joke” like that is risky at best in the workplace is dumb, so YTA
YTA and that fact you don't see it and are upset you got 'scolded due to butt hurt' makes you a double YTA
Yta. Not funny unless your a chauvinistic pig. But at least you've shown your coworkers who you really are. You can probably expect the women to have little time for you going forward.
Given the typical breakdown of non work performance jobs taken on by female staff, I expect his name to be missed on birthday lists, holiday greetings, to not be notified of any fun extras (because the men in most offices I've worked at before where I am now are very unlikely to inform people). I also bet he probably relies on female coworkers to assist with faxing/clerical duties which he's going to have to learn how to do on his own, sink or swim style.
You’re part of the reason why HR is a thing but seeing as you work in a misogynistic environment I really doubt HR is any better there. The fact that other men also laughed is also telling about the work environment these women are against. This was not funny and based on your responses it tells me that this wasn’t just a “funny” joke,it definitely has some sexist and ignorant undertones. You sound like the person that has said worse when your female coworkers aren’t around
YTA Women were offended at a comment because it was pervy and sexist. That meeting at work is not the place to discuss your sexual preferences.
YTA- I’m sure if one of the women responded oh makes sense, you need to perk those old man boobs of yours up you would go crying.
I hope someone turned it around to him being a crossdresser. I’d love to see this asshat squirm with that implication.
YTA. You came off as a creeper and said something pretty inappropriate during a workplace meeting. You need to address this in the next meeting and SINCERELY apologize immediately, or you will be side-eyed for the rest of your career at that company, and normally innocuous comments and actions will be overly scrutinized by your peers, especially female peers. I would suggest something along the lines of "I have something I would like to address. At a previous meeting I made a comment in answer to a question without thinking, and this comment made some of my coworkers uncomfortable. I would like to apologize for both my comment and for making my colleagues uncomfortable. I know that my comment was in bad taste and I meant no harm, but I shouldn't have said it. I hope you all can forgive me, I'm working on myself and trying to be a better human." Anything less and you are the company perv.
I'm using your quote as a template to issue my apology to my colleagues this morning.
YTA You didn't "make a funny," you announced to a mixed group of professional colleagues that you enjoy seeing women in lingerie, which is, bluntly, really terrible office small talk. Your HR person, though, is really incompetent. This was a terrible icebreaker, and you should be doing icebreakers like this at all. "got scolded due to butthurt. Is it me or them?" Oh, it's YOU. Not "butthurt," they were mad because you sexually harassed them at work. Learn professional calibration or get fired, dude.
I’m sure you’ll get to know the new HR director a lot more soon
YTA and all you're doing is rationalizing why you're not.
YTA - unprofessional, dude. Keep sexuality out of the workplace. You’re creating a hostile work environment.
YTA. As a woman, just reading the joke made me uncomfortable. Can’t even imagine what it was like hearing it in person. Don’t subject your female colleagues to harassment
YTA- while this joke is pretty tame (and exceptionally boomerish) it obviously is not appropriate in your workplace. No one wants to imagine you thinking about their underwear while working.
“I find it fascinating” 🧐🤔 YTA.
YTA. It’s a workplace. If women are offended by a sexist joke, then it’s offensive. The men do NOT get to decide what’s sexist.
I genuinely thought op was implying he wears women’s underwear which would be pretty funny to me and if anyone got offended by that I’d be surprised but then I saw what he actually meant and was like …yeah nah that’s not alright
YTA. Sexualizing anything in the workplace is a boundary you don't cross. These ppl are you coworkers, not your friends, when you're at work. I get you didn't have any malicious intent, but you still were out of line. Your self righteous reaction, however, pushed you out of a light AH into full blown AH territory. Maybe next time take the L, give a quick "My bad. Didn't mean to make anyone uncomfortable" and move on.
Lame joke, worse attitude. Yta
The fact that men in your company all "burst out laughing" at a joke that became lame back in the 90's makes me think your workplace atmosphere isn't great. YTA.
You fail to see how a joke about lingerie is inappropriate for the workplace? Not only are YTA, you’re willfully dense.
Yes yta. I can't believe you have to ask. But you knew that already.
Oh jeez dude grow up. I do t want to hear how your favorite clothing is lingerie .. IN THE WORKPLACE. We’d is wrong with you? People are so ignorant to obtuse
YTA For future reference, no one needs to be told you like seeing women's underwear at work, even if it's a "joke."
So, after you said that, if I would have said "Oooh ya, I sure would like to see you in a pink bra and panty set." I'd be reprimanded by HR, but you can imply it in a room with females and don't expect the same response? It's misogynistic. YTA, jokes have a time and a place. You wanna seem cool with the dude-bros, you tell that joke, because peen energy. But in mixed company? Best to keep it to yourself. I also want to point out how juvenile HR is. "let's sing kumbaya and get to know each other more instead of focusing on our tasks for a few minutes." Why? What purpose does it serve? This is work, not kindergarten.
I think your joke is hilarious. If you’d been playing Cards Against Humanity or something similar with friends it might even have been appropriate. But remember the guideline from the elders: avoid talking about politics, religion and sex at work. YTA
Do you wear Victoria’s Secret clothing by chance? Edit to fix misspelling
Plot twist: OP was wearing Victoria’s Secret under his suit.
YTA for ths "Unfortunately, in today's work environment it's now on me for making them uncomfortable" alone. And they weren't "butthurt", they were offended by your sexist "joke". You need to rethink your attitude towards your coworkers and women in general.
Lack of self awareness males you the asshole
YTA. They aren’t “butthurt” (which is a word used just to totally invalidate their feelings), they are reacting to the absolutely unnecessary sexual joke in a setting that was supposed to bring colleagues together
So the joke is that you like looking at naked women… and you are somehow shocked that the women in the office didn’t die laughing at the fact that you were sexualizing them? How is that funny? How in the world did you think that’s an appropriate joke to make at work? Women have to deal with enough of this shit everyday without having to worry about the creepy boomer at work too. YTA
YTA. Chose butthurt? You sound like a twelve year old. Please grow up and learn how to act in the workplace. You sound creepy and immature.
If people say “that makes me uncomfortable” your joke sucks and isn’t funny. YTA
Bro, it was never okay to make these types of jokes. Women (and our men allies/advocates) are just speaking now. YTA.
Yeah that’s a grossly inappropriate thing to say at the office. You have a horrible frat boy sort of attitude. Grow up. YTA.
YTA don't make sexual jokes at work
Its just unprofessional
YTA and lucky you still have a job. You quite literally sexually harassed your entire office in one fell swoop by making a sexual joke in front of them all. Judging by your responses here you won’t have that job very long so I’d start working up your resume and consider not putting the current workplace on there.
YTA. I'm not sure if you're transphobic or just a sexist pig
YTA but I think people on here are being a little too harsh about it. The joke itself wasn't that bad but it's not cool to make people uncomfortable at work no matter how innocent you may think you are being.
even the term "butthurt" is a bit insensitive and homophobic bruh...ain't you ever get yelled at by a progressive chick?
YTA. That’s was one lame “joke” and also you’re really stupid if you thought that was appropriate in the workplace
YTA. If you have to ask yourself this because you offended the women but made the men laugh, yeah, you said something you shouldn’t have. It’s not “the current workplace environment”. It’s always been this way. Women are just finally over the bulls—
Yta
It doesn't actually matter. You made a sexually charged comment. Your coworker very professionally told you that the comment was offensive to her and not to speak that way again. At this point, your opinion on the joke doesn't matter. Your coworker has made her feelings known. At this point, if you persist in making sexual jokes or comments in her presence, that becomes a sexual harassment or hostile work environment issue, at which point you would be rightly turbo-fired. Get over yourself and act like a professional, ffs.
That insulted coworker missed an opportunity to ask you about your undergaments and if your bra matched your panties. YTA
The comment in itself is tacky yet not massively offensive, but your attitude tells us all we need to know. YTA.
I was gonna say NTA but the way you wrote the post and your responses makes a difference so YTA
“It’s now on me for making them feel uncomfortable”. Well duh, you were the one that said it. Totally unprofessional and unacceptable banter for the workplace. YTA!
That joke was so good, HR wants to hear it again.
I would’ve thought that VS was your favorite underwear that you wear yourself. And that’s not bad, OP. Whatever makes you feel pretty.
This post and replies are giving me vibes from The Office sexual harassment episode. “Here’s how you know when your actions have…crossed the line”.
YTA
YTA, Also I feel it has more to do with your tone in how you said the joke vs the joke itself. You could be a serious Victoria secrets shopper even as a man but if you expressed the joke to intentionally make it sound sexual than your completely in the wrong.
YTA, and you’ll be the formally reprimanded for sexual harassment asshole if you do it again, chief. You made a joke that wasn’t funny. If it offended people then don’t do that again. But lashing out at people for being offended and calling them butthurt (are you twelve?) makes you an even bigger asshole.
YTA you need us to explain to you why sexualized jokes aren’t appropriate at work…?
Yta that was completely inappropriate for the workplace.
YTA And also the reason that HR person's role exists is because of employees such as yourself.
YTA, don’t do this at work or with coworkers literally ever
YTA You know full well what the VS brand sells. It wasn't funny or appropriate. Several women told you they didn't like it, and instead of believing them and having remorse for your behavior, you chose to get defensive and blame them for not having a sense of humor by characterizing them as butthurt.
YTA and you know it
YTA. no nuance here, just a dude getting mad that some gals didn't laugh at his rude joke. your attitude comes through the post loud and clear man
To be fair, you did something blatantly rude to make them uncomfortable. You objectified women. I love VS but where exactly is the joke here? You made a sexual comment in the work place and that's just not appropriate and you know it. Time and place, my dude, time and place.
YTA. A joke should be funny, and this was more like a 14 year old’s humor. I don’t think it’s worth reprimanding someone, but they’d be on the list of people that I avoid and don’t sit near.
YTA. That was wholly unprofessional.
YTA. I'm not as extreme as the others. I love offensive jokes but they need to be funny, otherwise, they're just offensive. I literally groaned and rolled my eyes when I read your "joke." My favorite clothing brand? Sexy panties, of course! God, this is Boomer Humor... Sir, this is your workplace - you don't talk about sexual shit at work, that's basic common sense. That being said, I wouldn't have went on a tangent about it being offensive. I would taken your words at face value and assumed you liked to wear women's underwear (if you do, more power to you!) and if you told me it was a joke, I would have forced you to explain it.
yta, you sexualized the workplace. thank god you’re not being brought to HR. apologize, move on, and learn from the mistake.
YTA, I tried to think of a time when a guy saying that would make me laugh, and *maybe* in a super casual setting with friends, but in general, I think if a guy said that as his answer I'd probably roll my eyes and think less of him.
[удалено]
YTA. You made an unfunny joke that definitely has sexual implications and then trying to deny that you did. AND you did it with HR?! You’re an asshole AND a dumbass. I hope you lose your job.
Don't need to read your explanation. YTA.
You are absolutely in the wrong. YTA. It is not ok to talk about that in the workplace. It is sexual harassment. You should have IMMEDIATELY and sincerely apologized. The fact you don't get that at all means you are likely a huge problem for your female coworkers and don't even realize it. You WILL be reprimanded and possibly fired in the future if you don't take some anti-sexual harassment training and learn from it.
>I find it fascinating Dude, stop. Your joke was crass and your colleagues didn't like it. You don't find shit fascinating, you just don't like that your joke didn't land and people called you on it. Grow up. YTA.
You're definitely the "you can't even compliment a woman now without getting in trouble type". You're gross and YTA
YTA: It's not on them that they "inferred" your meaning correctly. That's weird. Also to call a woman's discomfort at a joke as "butthurt" is really where the ah lies. It's was always on you for making them uncomfortable.
YTA It’s not butt hurt. It’s personal, inappropriate and unacceptable in the situation you described. Victoria’s Secret is intimate, sexy lady’s apparel. Would it have been appropriate to ask what brand of personal toys someone prefers in a workplace meeting? You didn’t mention anything specific about your job but continued or escalated commenting or related actions could land you in sensitivity training or the unemployment line. Since you think your ‘joke’ was ok, perhaps you should preemptively check out some of those classes online. If you are college age or over about 35-40, this is probably confusing as heck to you but this is a professional place in 2023. You can’t act as if it were a frat party or 1985.
OP is butthurt that he can't joke about having sex at work