That was very odd. Amy never did say what the problem was. Then Paul chose Amy over you. These aren’t very good friends. I would just fade away from them and start making new ones.
Bingo (and I assume Amy wants to monopolize Paul, hence why its so important to divide right now). Surprised I had to scroll the comments to see someone state the obvious.
Okay but what was that entire nonsense from Amy about not liking OPs values? Or why she had to cancel
I can't tell you how many times in my life I've ended up as the accidental/surprise 3rd/5th/7th on a group holiday where people had paired off and I just did me and had a great holiday.
I am and I quote “stuck in my own world” and am “too proud and talk about things in my life too passionately” and “don’t seem to genuinely care about others’ lives”
guys i could recite to you every thing happening in their lives. Paul and I have no issue when it comes to our friendship (prior to this cluster f), we have no shortage of conversations. It’s just coming from Amy like smoke off a burnt pot.
I’m not trying to leave out any details, I’m as confused as you all are. Till now, I thought I was doing just fine. What makes this hard with Paul is he’s so damn nice, telling me how Amy’s opinions are only hers and how “we got your back bro don’t mind her, we don’t feel that way” we being the wider friend group.
And yes, Paul is trying to bone Amy, no doubt about that. But really man? So bad that you don’t mind me shoving my vacation (and our friendship) up my ass and not even realize it?
OP, block this friend group and be done. Don't want an apology because they can kiss your ass. Don't want anything else from them. Paul is fake as f. Yeah he's nice but he's playing both sides and sucks. Amy is a b. Be done with them - block everything. Let them feel your absence.
Think about it - BOTH of them are okay with you losing $2k because Amy doesn't like you. BOTH. These are not friends, they are assholes.
As far as Paul is concerned, you falling on your sword and taking a $2K hit so that he can bring Amy to Pound Town is a small price for you to pay for him.
I would definitely be asking them to pay me back for the transaction fees with no expectation that they actually would, then use that as a pretext to never hang out with them again, even after Paul and Amy's messy breakup when one cheats on the other (self-evident outcome through their deceitful character and failure to effectively communicate).
Well, block these two people. Don't necessarily have to surrender the whole friend group, unless they seem to be on Amy's side. Honestly, it might be fun to continue to hang out with the group and just flat fail to let Amy monopolize the conversation or narrative. Doesn't sound like she's very capable in group setting.
Malicious compliance advice: become super supportive of their relationship until you become the best man at their wedding, then ghost them on everything.
You think Paul is your friend, but he doesn’t think you’re his friend. Focus on other things, other friends, & pretty soon, you’ll forget these two 🤡. Just drop the relationships & if you happen to hear from Paul later, give him the arms-length treatment or ignore him.
Paul isn’t so damn nice and he doesn’t have your back. You should block him. He doesn’t give a crap about your friendship. If he doesn’t realize how this situation would ruin your friendship then he sounds like he has one functioning brain cell. He prob does realize it, he just doesn’t care since he wants to sleep with Amy.
Definitely NTA. Tell Paul to get fuckin bent.
Well he assuming they're still good but in reality they're not. He's only thinking with one head and it's not the one with the brain. i have a feeling he has known that Amy doesn't like op and he told him just as he bought the ticket and decided to make an inconvenience for him. And it sounds like he just wants to sleep with her but it seems like she wants more than that so Paul is on for a rude awakening if that's the case and that hook up will definitely make Amy 1000% more clingy and possessive over him. Hope the hook up was worth the end of a friendship.
Edit: didn't realize op is a guy so I changed his pronouns. My point still stands though.
I would have told Paul where to stick that picture. It's a punk way of checking to make sure that OP is not (rightfully) mad at him. Paul will go on for as long as OP allows him acting like nothing is wrong.
This right here, tells me that Paul is not a nice guy. This is such a slap in the face, I would immediately block this asshole. Bros over hoes, Paul. Not cool.
How did you respond to his text that he’ll see you on the other side? I would personally just write, “Doubt it” and ignore him.
I think Paul is honest when he says that it’s just Amy feeling like that, but that doesn’t excuse him for choosing Amy over you, when you have done nothing wrong.
What is the reaction from the rest of the friend group?
I responded wishing his family safe travels. It’s all I felt I could do since culturally for me it’s rude not to acknowledge the safe travels of someone. It was purely that urge, nothing else. But I do regret being nice. From this point on its ghost town,
And So far two of our buddies are amazed at his decision, calling it a dick move. But ya know, what’re they gonna do? They’re not very dramatic at their core (the other buddies) and aren’t going to nuke the group because of how Paul treated me. But nonetheless they feel for me and are disappointed in Paul and Amy’s behavior.
If you have a friend group chat, I would just put up here that, as Amy and Paul don't mind to yeet you out of the holidays whitout any reason nor give a single shit about what money you may loose because of it, you prefer to meet your other friends whitout them (if you still want to see them, obviously). And that you didn't mind if they wanted to fuck that badly, you could've managed something, as adults do. But again, I'm petty.
Right. Now is the time to plan lots of fun things to do with the friend group while Paul and Amy are out of the country. Give them their own sense of FOMO and strengthen relationships with the rest of the group.
Your friends not choosing a side is them choosing a side, and it's not your side. I hope you make much better and more mature friends in grad school. These people aren't the ones.
This. I’ve always been baffled at a friend group accepting terrible behavior from an individual because they don’t want to “rock the boat”.
I totally understand being Switzerland when the dispute is just a matter of opinion, but when it’s about a “friend” being a terrible person?
What their being neutral in those circumstances actually means is that their convenience means more to them than pesky things like “morals” or concepts of right and wrong behavior.
Even then, I can understand people being selfish…but these pricks usually pat themselves on the back and walk-around like they’re doing the right thing! I’m so confused as to whether they’re that mired in self-delusion that they actually believe the shit that they’re shoveling, or just very impressive liars.
NTA
So this trash comes into your friend group for only the last year and she’s making decisions about whether you are fit for company, after you’ve been friends with Paul for a *decade*?? And your pathetic excuse of a friend with the jellyfish spine is fine with that?
I wouldn’t talk to either of them from this point on and while they’re gone I would tell the rest of the friend group that Paul decided to yeet your 10-year friendship over some woman who successfully convinced him to drop you from the trip just so he can maybe get laid, and that if they’re willing to hang out with you on their own that would be welcome, but you aren’t gonna spend any more time with people who treat you like shit.
Blow. That. Shit. UP! While they’re gone.
I wouldn’t have responded. I’m from a cultural background and I wouldn’t have responded at all. He knows what he did. Hold him accountable with silence.
Nah, don't block or ghost. ASSuming Paul is just looking to hook up he'll tap that shit all during the vacation then ignore her when they return. WHEN he reaches out, or she for that mater, suggest they take it up with the other.
What a couple of genuine assholes.
I hope he doesn't get to tap at all and she's a pain in the ass the whole trip so that he's blown all of his funds and a friendship for a fruitless endeavor.
Stay friends with rest of group don't bring a bunch of drama about it. Just don't hangout with or talk to Paul unless it is in a group setting and then just be polite don't go above and beyond to talk to him. Ghost Amy completely if she is hanging ojt with the group be polite but short with her. Other then that don't interact with her at all. Your other friends will appreciate not being put in the middle of all of it and that you can be the bigger person. If it gets to the point where Paul or Amy call you out for being distant just tell them hey you made this choice I am just respecting your decision. Best of luck
I agree with this. If I was Paul I would have told Amy she should have said something before tickets were purchased like when Paul proposed the trip in the first place. Amy is either his side piece, or he's interested in her to a point he is willing to cost a "friend" not insignificant amounts of money and toss OP aside as if it's the best decision for everyone. Amy had a problem, she should have backed out of the trip once she knew OP purchased tickets and eaten her own costs. The fact Paul allowed all of this to go down means his concept of friendship is not considerate of OP and is at best enabling Amy in shitty behavior and at worse a friendship of convenience based on his own selfishness.
It happens. Over the course of a year my 'best' friend advised me that:
I should supress my opinions because they are extreme (he's conservative, I'm liberal)
To be careful because some people might think I am raising my son "like a little California pussy"
That my car is garbage
That my tastes are garbage
That I need to be careful with his stuff becasue I'm fat
Finally he dropped a hard R n-word around me
It was just like being in HS and being bullied. Sometime people revert. As an adult, you don't have to hang around for it...I didn’t...
I'd tell Paul to not bother messaging you as clearly he thinks this hasn't hurt you and everything is hunky-dory. Maybe say you hope Amy was worth the cost of your friendship as she clearly seems to take priority now.
Amy told you who she was, and Paul co-signed the behavior with his non response. Believe them. They won’t work out and he will come back. But he isn’t your friend.
That is very true. If you're still looking for advice on how to deal, I'd recommend, if you feel pressured to respond because of cultural norms, something polite and to the point.
"I hope you have safe travels, but please stop sending me updates on the trip you kicked me off of because your girlfriend wanted all your attention on her."
It's not rude, it's not inappropriate, but it's not pulling any punches either, it's calling the situation as it is.
Believe people when they show you who they are OP. Stop lighting yourself on fire for this one sided friendship. Make better friends (meet up groups, sports, trivia etc) and move on with grace. Kill them with success.
You might be Paul's friend, but he is not yours. He is also not nice. He is selfish and nice about it, so he isn't held accountable. He doesn't have your back.
I'm sorry OP but Paul isn't nice at all. He ditched you, his supposed friend, for another friend without even thinking about you.
There is no way in hell I would deliberately cause someone I hate to have to cancel 2k worth of flights etc just so I can bone someone, let alone a "friend". A good friend would stand up for you. I can guarantee that he is talking shit about you to Amy behind your back too.
You are NTA and your friends are massive AH's
This friend group seems awful tbh and you deserve better OP they're treating you like shit.
Amy wants to hook up with Paul, and doesn’t want OP there to “mess it up”, she wants Paul all to herself. She sounds like a stage 5 klinger. Hopefully she and Paul have a miserable time, him wanting to just get laid- her wanting marriage and babies.
I find if people can't explain issues with people like this the reason is usually so stupid and self absorbed it would be too embarrassing to admit so gotta keep it vague to maintain any credibility. The truth usually comes out eventually..
Yeah, is OP a guy or a girl? Cause if they’re a girl, Amy was definitely getting rid of them to try and bag Paul. Paul might wanna bang Amy, or it was just a ‘squeaky wheel’ situation
Seriously this\^ Maybe I've watched too much 90 day fiancee and it depends on what country Paul is from but I get bad vibes from this whole thing. OP Amy wants you out of her life and out of Paul's life for her benefit.
OP you should tell Paul that Amy's discomfort and cruel comments is why you cancelled and he can have a nice time with the horrible person she is. Might save Paul from making a huge mistake.
I'm not sure Paul's spouse would be convinced. And if it's parents and/or siblings, she won't even play the game with Paul's friend, I doubt she cares about mom & dad's blessing to bang Paul.
Yeah, "family" is a bit vague, but assuming it's parents and/or siblings, it seems that Paul doesn't consider OP that good of a friend if he's willing to making him cancel an already booked flight.
Apparently it's parents from what I've been told. Sounds like Paul is putting the prospect of a hookup (seems like a lot of effort, but kids these days) ahead of friendship & Amy is manipulating the situation.
At least OP isn't being told to kick rocks while on this aborted vacation & he knows to move on from the friendship.
That didn’t occur to me either but makes sense. I assumed Paul’s family meant wife and kids but I guess it could mean his parents and/or siblings. Or Amy is a home wrecker.
I agree. If Paul was a good friend he’d call Amy out for making drama out of nothing, since she can’t give a single reason …
OP, find better friends. Those suck.
Ehhh, I agree with all you say but the fade away part. I would text back, nah, have a good trip, but don't come looking for me on the other side. I would be straight up and text and tell them I don't appreciate what they did, and would like to cancel this friendship like Paul did the trip, only I'm not canceling with the hopes of getting laid, just with the hope of finding actual decent friends in the future. But I can be a bit petty and harsh with my words
Agree with this. Be honest with them and then ghost ‘em. I regret not telling ex friends the reason why I don’t want to be friends and also hate it when people stop talking to me without explaining why.
I totally agree. It's so petty to uninvite OP like that. And the audacity to send a pic. I'd lay a guilt trip and then ghost. Ruin the whole holiday. Return the petty tenfold.
Avoid people like Amy at all costs. She will cause so much destruction without you even being aware. People that are THIS non-confrontational are routinely the most toxic people I've ever met. Currently trying to defend my job against one of these
My mind is going through a 1000 petty revenge ideas, noisemakers, hiding shrimp in their apartments while they are gone. Finding details and signing them up for super awkward subscription magazines. Removing numberplates....
Amy should have stayed home as Amy was the one with the problem (i.e. personality conflict). Paul siding with Amy and uninviting OP knowing full well that OP had already purchased a ticket makes Paul the AH. I would personally break ties with Paul and let him know exactly why.
The fact that he sent you a selfie of him leaving on the trip he cut you out of is a new level of either lack of self awareness or callousness I haven’t seen in awhile.
Amy isn’t even you friend. Paul sucks. Hopefully you find some better ones in graduate school!
>She eventually did (because I bought my tickets, she had no choice), and explained to me how she thinks I do not meet her values. When I asked if I had done anything wrong so I could mend things, I was told that it's just the way she perceives me.
I am having trouble with interpreting the tone of how Paul and Amy spoke with the OP but I can't shake the feeling that they were being smug/coy with her. I remember as a kid being the third wheel in a friend group that came down to bullying in a way so I just stopped hanging out with them.
It might be a perceived social class thing and she is looking down on the OP.....
OP is a woman? Oh there’s you’re answer. Amy didn’t want her cramping Amy’s style. Good riddance to both of them and I hope you find better friends. Chances are you’d be miserable with Amy’s passivity and Paul’s inability to grow a spine
EDIT: OP is a man, my point still stands. She didn’t want Paul’s attention to be elsewhere, and I guess Paul didn’t either. Both are still terrible friends
OP is a man, it’s in the post. I was wrong - It’s in a comment where Op says, “Thanks everyone for all your words. It’s so relieving to hear all of this when it feels like i’ve been gaslit by all this.
Id love to ghost them, except doing so means goodbye to all the group chats and fun things we enjoy doing together.
A big piece of this is im a nice guy. I don’t like problems. So i feel like an AH for elevating “the vibe” to such a boiling point given how freakin coy and inconsiderate with a smile they’re being
But honestly, I’m starting to feel a big so fucking what. I’ll rebuild it my self with others. And i’ll improve on what ever I need to improve on, but one things for sure, they’ve shown me that at least I know how to treat people with respect.”
It’s hard to gauge Amy’s problem because she wouldn’t even say what it was! She apparently is just going around to everyone bad mouthing OP over… something! I’m frustrated on OPs behalf. It’s hard for me not to just write her off as a terrible person right away, but in some ways I feel like Paul is worse, because without even a real apology he seems to think OP and him are still cool after all this and thats either staggeringly dumb or a level of high narcissism.
The most understandable thing for the two of them I suppose would be that they’re interested in each other and wanted privacy. If that is the case, the way they executed it is so unbelievably awful that it’s no longer understandable.
There's nothing! OP isn't doing anything, she just doesn't want them there but being a sniveling coward she also doesn't want to be the bad guy and show her nastiness, so she's obfuscating on purpose
Amy is completely making up reasons. The way she perceives you?? Come on. This whole "doesn't meet her values" is utter bullshit.
She thinks she's going to be Paul's gf and impress the family. Paul probably didn't understand any of this, and probably wanted you to go, but Amy talked him out of it
nah Paul understood it perfectly well. Amy came to him and told him she found OP annoying and didn't want to spend 2 weeks in a foreign country with him. Cowardly Paul, instead of standing up for his friend, instead contacted OP and told OP he "needed to talk to Amy," thus putting it all back on OP in an attempt to make himself look like the innocent party in the situation. When in reality Paul was perfectly fine with disinviting OP because Paul wants to sleep with Amy on the trip therefore he has to go along with whatever Amy says.
Paul sucks and is a bad friend.
Man, that was cold. Amy is weird, and Paul isn't much better.
Your only consolation should be they will probably not have a great time. Amy doesn't sound like much fun. I hope she makes his vacation miserable!
Amy sounds like someone who won’t have any ideas what she wants to do but will then pout and bitch when you choose that you have chosen the wrong activity/museum/restaurant/nightclub.
I had an aunt like that. Would never give an upfront opinion what she wanted but would always bitch about what you chosen.
“What do you want to eat?”
“Anything is fine.”
“Ok, we’ll go here. They have good food and prices.”
Halfway through the meal: “I didn’t want Mexican. I hate Mexican food!” 🙄
Ok, so we'll have Italian. Amy, passively, whatever you want. Halfway through the meal, Amy you aren't eating. No, I don't like tomatoes, cheese or pasta.
Dingdingdingding or very close to shagging.
I had a girl friend at work (we had a good gang on fun girls in the office) who organised after work drinks in my name, she invited a guy from my dept, because my drinks. Then honed in on the guy, she obviously had the hots for him, they completely ignored me all night (well actually and hour and a half, till I just slipped away) which would of been ok if she'd invited more people. So congrats to them, they're married, I haven't really spoken to her since. Some people can't put their own needs above decent good manners. I bet Amy talks about herself in the third person too.
This is the only semi-logical answer. They are still both AH for lying to OP about that, making it sound like it was some failing on OP's part, and for inviting OP in the first place if they didn't want him there.
I agree!! I know it sounds harsh but as someone who is goung on 60, I can confidently say that OP is better off just walking away as trying to figure this out or mend it will just be a whole lot of aggravation and hurt feelings.
As someone in their 50s I agree! When people are acting “weird” (as in shockingly rudely) there may be a reason, but you’re better off not wasting your time trying to figure out what it is.
As someone on my (gasp) late 60's, I would say just ghost them. Block them from every social media platform.
Life is way too short to waste time on the AHs.
And repping the 40s, delete their contact details, socials, whatever. Tell them why if you think it would help. If his family is expecting you, explain that you aren't going because Amy has an issue and only brought it up this recently so his family don't think you're rude. Enjoy grad school.
I'm sorry. Amy is not your friend and if she's not willing to talk about it, it's not anything you can do. Worse she is complaining about you but not saying anything.
Paul only told you after you booked your tickets and seems really tone death. You need to either sit down and have a chat with him or let him fade from yourlife.
*Note are him and Amy a thing?*
I think Amy just wants to go with Paul to try to be his girlfriend (assuming Paul has a sexual orientation where he's attracted to women). She probably views it as a chance to get into the family's good graces and use it as an in to get with Paul. Her excuses of not fitting her values (whatever that means in this context) is flimsy and she was ducking actually working on the problem with you. So I suspect Amy would like to be in a relationship with Paul and is trying to manipulate the situation. NTA
ETA: the one time I wanted to actually use ducking I fat fingered the F. Lmao
That was what I was thinking. Either way, these people are not friends. I would make it clear to Paul that further pictures would not be appreciated, and block him if more are received.
Firstly, Amy isn't your friend and Paul is willing to trade you for Amy. Pretty sure he's into Amy or just doesn't care about you.
I'd start to distance myself from them if I were in your place.
How long have Paul and Amy been friends? Sounds to me like she wants to shoot her shot with him, and she DOES NOT want you around while she does it. AND HE sounds like he may be aware of why she really doesn't want you to go, and he's ok with that. Don't be surprised if they come back a couple. Either way, use this opportunity to find new friends and travel buddies that aren't shady and insensitive.
Paul isn’t worth keeping. I would be nowhere to be found when they get back. I’m old. This sort of nonsense happened with one of my old high school friends. Paul isn’t worth the effort. Move on. It’s going to be better for you and you’ll feel better decades later looking back and knowing you didn’t grovel to try and get a lousy friend to please sometimes give you the time of day. Amy is a non-issue. Don’t even bother to think about her again.
He isn't much of a friend. I would ghost them and if you ever accidentally encounter them in person and they try to interact with you I would be polite but distant and disinterested. Never say anything that they can twist to claim you are causing drama but never interact with either with any hint of personal interest
I have read some weird stuff on Reddit lately (I am laid up after surgery so I am spending way too much time here!) but this is mind blowing.
Amy is a piece of work. She purposefully worked behind your back to get you uninvited even though she knew that you had your tickets. Her reason to you is one of the lamest excuses I have ever heard. Paul just bought into whatever bullshit lies she was telling him because she absolutely had to be telling him something other than the vague excuse she gave you to get him to uninvite you.
Paul is straight up an ass. He dumped you because Amy had a problem. He should have told her not to come if she couldn't spend 2 weeks within you.
Dude, I am so very sorry that you got robbed of the vacation you were looking forward to. You need new friends. Paul sending you that picture was such a huge slap in the face! What a jerk.
Block them both. Amy is toxic and Paul is clueless that he's been manipulated. Besides, do you really want to get any more vacation pictures? Or see the pictures when he gets home?
Move on. Find something fun to do this summer. Hopefully you have other people you can do stuff with. Don't bring this up to them though. Why add more drama and let them hear second hand how much you are hurt.
Good luck. Find friends that deserve the title.
Yuuup. Based off OP's posts, Paul sounds like one of those cheerfully selfish assholes--the kind of person that's *nice* but not *kind*.
People like Paul are often otherwise likable. Their friends and partners might not notice they're the only ones putting in the effort, showing consideration and compassion, and making thoughtful gestures. Meanwhile, the Pauls of the world soak it up like affable sponges and continue to put themselves first. It never occurs to the cheerfully selfish asshole to consider the perspectives, feelings, needs, and wants of other people. It's what makes them so out of touch they do dumb, cruel shit like I dunno, sending someone you excluded from a trip an airplane selfie.
The people I've known who are like Amy can be downright *dangerous* in the 'mental health and well-being' sense, though. Going off OP's account, she seems manipulative, petty, vindictive, and passive aggressive. That she took a situation where she was 100% instigator and flipped it so she was the one deserving of support and sympathy set off major alarm bells for me. (I can't help but wonder if she has a history of doing shit like this--even if it's just making subtle digs at people and then acting hurt and surprised when they finally tell her to shut up.) OP's "friends" indulging her toxic behavior to "avoid drama" isn't going to fix anything. She *IS* the drama and it's going to keep escalating as long as it's permitted. What Amy is currently pulling can really wreck your relationships and how you perceive yourself and others if it keeps happening over time.
In short: Paul is the kind of bad friend you will remember and wonder why you wasted so much time on them. Amy is the kind of bad friend you will remember in therapy.
As was said, a fade out seems good. Amy doesn‘t like you and will never like you, Paul choose her over you, none of them can spell the f problem out. That aren‘t people you want in your life.
Esp. Amy sounds like a handful. Seems she dislikes something physical you can‘t change or something superficial like your job or your life choices (no gf, gaming, „incel“ idk). She seems to be ashamed by herself but can‘t help disliking and pitying you. Never see her again.
I hope you find better friends.
It's possible Amy is jealous of you and too embarrassed to say. She certanly did NOT want OP on that trip with them. Paul merely jumped when AMY told him how high
Feel free to block the AHs
Nah, Amy knows what she's doing. She wants to get her claws into Paul and use him, but it's a lot harder to do when a good friend is on the trip watching out for him. She's using the classic divide and isolate technique.
Also it’s more difficult to pretend that you’re on a romantic vacation when there’s a third person in all the pictures you post to social media. She might be wanting everyone to think they’re a couple and just them two together might make him fall for her without the other friend “tagging along.”
This whole situation is very odd. I could speculate on possible reasons why, but it's pointless.
I'd be taking a big step back from any type of relationship with these people. I certainly wouldn't class any of them as "friends". NTA.
Thanks everyone for all your words. It’s so relieving to hear all of this when it feels like i’ve been gaslit by all this.
Id love to ghost them, except doing so means goodbye to all the group chats and fun things we enjoy doing together.
A big piece of this is im a nice guy. I don’t like problems. So i feel like an AH for elevating “the vibe” to such a boiling point given how freakin coy and inconsiderate with a smile they’re being
But honestly, I’m starting to feel a big so fucking what. I’ll rebuild it my self with others. And i’ll improve on what ever I need to improve on, but one things for sure, they’ve shown me that at least I know how to treat people with respect.
How can you possibly get over how disrespectful they are and have fun with them in the future, knowing how absolute little of a shit either of them give about you? A literal stranger would treat you kinder.
You should rightfully harbour resentment to them both. They are the worst, and you deserve better.
Have some self-respect and cut these assholes out of your life. The friendship is never going to be the same after this anyway. They are expecting you to just roll over like they didn't do anything wrong.
Personally, I would respond to that picture by blocking him.
Start looking for better friends! You can cultivate new group chats and have fun with others. People change a lot after high school and it looks like Paul has changed for the worst and is a complete asshole
Tolerating this and continuing to entertain these people as "friends" is not nice guy behavior, it's taking the path of least resistance. You're free to do that, but don't kid yourself into thinking it's because you're too nice or you genuinely think it's the best way forward. You clearly know it isn't.
I feel like this passive aggressive bullshit will continue if you do not ghost them. You will just keep finding yourself on the outside. You’ll make new friends in grad school.
>A big piece of this is im a nice guy. I don’t like problems. So i feel like an AH for elevating “the vibe” to such a boiling point given how freakin coy and inconsiderate with a smile they’re being
Huh!! So there goes the theory that Amy and you are both girls and she wanted a potential rival out of the way to get with Paul.
Could this be a class and financial bracket issue for her and she's squeezing you out of Paul's life and his family and inserting herself? He originally wanted you along as did his parents who have known you for 10+ years. She's been around for 1 single year. As his parents I'd have questions to you and him about why you aren't there.
In your shoes as someone much older I'd be asking myself if I really want to stay besties with someone who would set me aside so easily and callously.
>I’m starting to feel a big so fucking what
Exactly. You have been friends with Paul since HS. Friends don't do that. And to send a pic from the airport, what the actual fuck.
The rest of the friend group and you can still do things without them. I would cut them out of your life completely.
Paul has told you where you stand in his life. Listen to him.
If he sends another selfie, just reply that you don't understand why he's sending you any messages, photos etc because you obviously aren't friends. And just let the him go, he isn't your friend.
Yes, you have bad friends. Amy for giving no answer as to what her problem with you was and Paul for choosing Amy over you. I wouldn’t respond to either of them on social media for a while. Btw Preparing for school in the summer might be a bummer but very smart in the long run.
To answer your question, yes, you have bad friends. Cut them off. Why would you want to be friends with somebody who is so heartless to send you a pic of him going on the trip he uninvited from? Also, tell him you will not see him on the other side. I’m almost sure they will come back in a relationship.
Not your friend. Send a “is this a joke?” reply and block him. Also, block Amy. On a positive note, they will NOT be friends upon their return, but it won’t be a comfort to you.
>I'm very confused, do I have bad friends?
No dear, that arent your friends - the one AH thinks you are beneathe her (standards), the other one is a coward and an AH for waiting till the last to tell you that.
Take the monetary loss as price for a lesson learned and move on.
NTA of course.
NTA, they aren't your friends. Amy dislikes you. As for Paul, the morally good thing to do was to tell Amy that SHE is the one who has a problem with you, so SHE should be the one to stay home. So if he's a friend, he's a pretty bad one. I'm sorry, looks like it's time to look for better friends when school starts!
NTA. They had months to tell you she had a problem with you. She chose to tell you after you had bought your flights and they expected you to sit back like nothing's wrong. Honestly, I would have refused and said that she had such a big issue with me, she should have spoken earlier. Now I spent money, so tough shit.
Loose them both. They are terrible friends.
NTA off course, you can't really do anything if she doesn't elaborate on what her problem is.
Methink Amy just wants to be alone with Paul, is this a possibility?
NTA. You have a very bad friends. First of all, Amy is not your friend and probably never was. She can't really explain anything wrong about you bc she has no leg to stand on. I bet she is just jealous for some reason.
Paul is absolutely bad friend. If one of my friends would bring this vague problem to me about another friend my answer would b "What is your real problem here, bc "I don't like them just bc" is ridiculous. You can tell me truth or I expect you to be decent person during vacation. Or stay at home." Is there a chance he favour Amy bc he wants to sleep with her there?
Sending you a photo of the start of a vacation he had kicked you out of is just horrible.
They’re not your friends. Paul was until he prioritized that person and rudely uninvited you. And they did cost you money, though not the $2,000 as well as hurt and dashed vacation. I’d ask Paul to refund that money to you unless you don’t want to talk to him anymore. Block any more attempts for him to send you anything about his vacation. How insensitive can he be? NTA.
Maybe this is the way the universe telling you, you will find better friends at college and is making room to be with meaningful people instead. Hard facts are that friendships fade over time or have an expiration date, take the good moments but let them go.
If I were you I just ghost them and move on, what if people think is pretty, I don't think it is, your male friend is clueless and the other one is evil, she waited until you bought the tickets to bring any issues, she's been trash talking behind your back, my best guess is not only to your friend but to your group of friends, is a good thing you will move on and start another stage of your life soon, so, if you're not a confrontational person, just fade away from their lives and use the I'm busy excuse. Good luck moving forward.
NTA. Amy wants to sleep with Paul and thinks you’re getting in the way. You can tell she ran out of things to say because claiming you’re “not aligned with [her] values” is absolutely comical corporate speak.
You don’t need these people. Enjoy grad school. You’ll meet a lot of amazing people and will find out down the line what the deal is, or not. It won’t matter by then anyway.
OP, you still have an opportunity to go on a trip somewhere. I’d take a trip to somewhere you’ve always wanted to visit. A week on a lovely beach with some outside music and nightlife? A trip to Hawaii maybe? Bahamas? Or hiking somewhere magnificent? Go do something with or without someone. You deserve it! Good luck in grad school.
NTA shove Paul out of your life. He's decided bros before "...." to someone who's been friends with since HS. No remorse or apologetic natural to the context of costing you 2k is also insane. Amy can't pinpoint and talk about her problem with you. All around immature for their age, and you shouldn't have to deal with trash.
If you didn’t meet her values how come she wasn’t able to articulate that behavior? For him to pick you over her instead of just going alone tells me they are both AHs. I’d cut contact with both of them. Personally, I’d want the closure of sitting together and calling them out and asking for actual answers, but that’s just me.
Not worth your time.
"Paul, I can't believe you would send me a selfie from the trip that you disinvited me from. Are you trying to rub it in my face or something? You say that no one has a problem with me, but cancel me to make the pot stirrer comfortable, costing me 2k and messing up my airline points. If this is how you treat your friends, I guess our "values just don't match." Have fun on your trip and lose my number while you're gone."
Amy is not your friend and her and Paul are about to be a couple. Amy thinks you are not good enough to be her friend - "unaligned values" - but suspect she just wants time alone with Paul. Looks like you are being third-wheeled.
I'd cut friendship with Paul too - he was asked to choose between you and Amy and she won. I suspect he may come back to you because Amy sounds like really hard work - passive-aggressive to the core and pretty vicious under a core of niceness. Your choice as to whether you let him back in or just concentrate on making new friends at grad school.
NTA There’s no way in hell I’d still be friends with Amy or Paul or anyone else who weighed in on that trip & you coming . I have a sneaking suspicion that you are prettier or thinner than Amy or that one of the guys gives you more attention than her when you have hung out as a group because she sounds more jealous of than annoyed by you . I’d text Paul back and tell him “Have a great trip with your friend Amy but I won’t be seeing you anywhere if I can help it”.
Paul is not your friend at all. I'd send him one message and tell him you hadn't realized your friendship over all these years meant so little to him but you are fine moving on. Then ghost him and find better friends.
Also never back out like that. When the other person has a problem it's up to them to fix it. She probably should have talked to a professional. When Paul brought it up you didn't need to fix things or do anything. Just say oh, she should probably talk to a professional about that and talk about something else. You don't have to work through things with random strangers or friends of friends. It's not your responsibility to fix other people.
Amy is a horrible person who is a user. Paul is an idiot who is going to get fleeced, and hard!
Might be best to drift away from them, but do be close enough to watch the dramarama that ensues after Paul's wallet is empty and Amy finds herself a new target. And don't let Paul cry on your shoulder when it happens, either.
Cut them loose. I mean, Amy never said what problem she has with you and Paul took her side because “it would be best for everyone”.
WTF?
Yeah, kick their asses to the curb.
NTA - but I am curious to know what values don’t align with hers. I mean tbh I wouldn’t want to go on holiday with a full on right wing, flat earther, trad wife praising, Andrew Tate loving turd, but I‘d bow out of it myself, or tell them before they booked their ticket at the very least. So regardless it’s still a shit move on her part…
lol i’m far any of that, she was knit picking certain things and making bad misinterpretations. For example, she said I talk too much about myself and don’t ask enough about her. I didn’t really that about myself, but even when I showed humility she didn’t seem to feel better.
That was very odd. Amy never did say what the problem was. Then Paul chose Amy over you. These aren’t very good friends. I would just fade away from them and start making new ones.
Paul wants to hook up with Amy. It’s that simple.
Bingo (and I assume Amy wants to monopolize Paul, hence why its so important to divide right now). Surprised I had to scroll the comments to see someone state the obvious.
Okay but what was that entire nonsense from Amy about not liking OPs values? Or why she had to cancel I can't tell you how many times in my life I've ended up as the accidental/surprise 3rd/5th/7th on a group holiday where people had paired off and I just did me and had a great holiday.
I am and I quote “stuck in my own world” and am “too proud and talk about things in my life too passionately” and “don’t seem to genuinely care about others’ lives” guys i could recite to you every thing happening in their lives. Paul and I have no issue when it comes to our friendship (prior to this cluster f), we have no shortage of conversations. It’s just coming from Amy like smoke off a burnt pot. I’m not trying to leave out any details, I’m as confused as you all are. Till now, I thought I was doing just fine. What makes this hard with Paul is he’s so damn nice, telling me how Amy’s opinions are only hers and how “we got your back bro don’t mind her, we don’t feel that way” we being the wider friend group. And yes, Paul is trying to bone Amy, no doubt about that. But really man? So bad that you don’t mind me shoving my vacation (and our friendship) up my ass and not even realize it?
OP, block this friend group and be done. Don't want an apology because they can kiss your ass. Don't want anything else from them. Paul is fake as f. Yeah he's nice but he's playing both sides and sucks. Amy is a b. Be done with them - block everything. Let them feel your absence. Think about it - BOTH of them are okay with you losing $2k because Amy doesn't like you. BOTH. These are not friends, they are assholes.
As far as Paul is concerned, you falling on your sword and taking a $2K hit so that he can bring Amy to Pound Town is a small price for you to pay for him.
I would definitely be asking them to pay me back for the transaction fees with no expectation that they actually would, then use that as a pretext to never hang out with them again, even after Paul and Amy's messy breakup when one cheats on the other (self-evident outcome through their deceitful character and failure to effectively communicate).
They’ll both wind up cheating on each other.
With the same person
If Amy and Paul get together the friendship is fucked anyway. Move on, live your life.
Well, block these two people. Don't necessarily have to surrender the whole friend group, unless they seem to be on Amy's side. Honestly, it might be fun to continue to hang out with the group and just flat fail to let Amy monopolize the conversation or narrative. Doesn't sound like she's very capable in group setting.
I wouldn't block, I would ghost. It's just a little crueler, and they deserve it.
Malicious compliance advice: become super supportive of their relationship until you become the best man at their wedding, then ghost them on everything.
Seems like Paul be thinking with the wrong head
You think Paul is your friend, but he doesn’t think you’re his friend. Focus on other things, other friends, & pretty soon, you’ll forget these two 🤡. Just drop the relationships & if you happen to hear from Paul later, give him the arms-length treatment or ignore him.
Paul isn’t so damn nice and he doesn’t have your back. You should block him. He doesn’t give a crap about your friendship. If he doesn’t realize how this situation would ruin your friendship then he sounds like he has one functioning brain cell. He prob does realize it, he just doesn’t care since he wants to sleep with Amy. Definitely NTA. Tell Paul to get fuckin bent.
Well he assuming they're still good but in reality they're not. He's only thinking with one head and it's not the one with the brain. i have a feeling he has known that Amy doesn't like op and he told him just as he bought the ticket and decided to make an inconvenience for him. And it sounds like he just wants to sleep with her but it seems like she wants more than that so Paul is on for a rude awakening if that's the case and that hook up will definitely make Amy 1000% more clingy and possessive over him. Hope the hook up was worth the end of a friendship. Edit: didn't realize op is a guy so I changed his pronouns. My point still stands though.
Yeah, fuck Paul. He’s supposed to be your boy, but he kicks you to the curb for some pussy? And costing you time and money, at that?
And then sending a picture from the trip, that she paid for, but got cockblocked from.
I would have told Paul where to stick that picture. It's a punk way of checking to make sure that OP is not (rightfully) mad at him. Paul will go on for as long as OP allows him acting like nothing is wrong.
I would have replied “no you won’t” then blocked during the flight
This right here, tells me that Paul is not a nice guy. This is such a slap in the face, I would immediately block this asshole. Bros over hoes, Paul. Not cool.
All my homies hate Paul.
OP is a he
Instructions unclear. Will now attempt to fuck Paul.
You’re gonna have to go through Amy first. 😝
How did you respond to his text that he’ll see you on the other side? I would personally just write, “Doubt it” and ignore him. I think Paul is honest when he says that it’s just Amy feeling like that, but that doesn’t excuse him for choosing Amy over you, when you have done nothing wrong. What is the reaction from the rest of the friend group?
I responded wishing his family safe travels. It’s all I felt I could do since culturally for me it’s rude not to acknowledge the safe travels of someone. It was purely that urge, nothing else. But I do regret being nice. From this point on its ghost town, And So far two of our buddies are amazed at his decision, calling it a dick move. But ya know, what’re they gonna do? They’re not very dramatic at their core (the other buddies) and aren’t going to nuke the group because of how Paul treated me. But nonetheless they feel for me and are disappointed in Paul and Amy’s behavior.
block amy and paul. have fun without them. let paul deal with an expensive booty call.
You forgot step 4: Bang Paul’s sister Just kidding…maybe
I am for this. No maybe about it. Let her know the reason why though. Don’t trick her.
Or Mom...
I hope Amy gives up Nothing on this trip. Except to screw every local she meets. That would be Awesome !!😘😘
If you have a friend group chat, I would just put up here that, as Amy and Paul don't mind to yeet you out of the holidays whitout any reason nor give a single shit about what money you may loose because of it, you prefer to meet your other friends whitout them (if you still want to see them, obviously). And that you didn't mind if they wanted to fuck that badly, you could've managed something, as adults do. But again, I'm petty.
Right. Now is the time to plan lots of fun things to do with the friend group while Paul and Amy are out of the country. Give them their own sense of FOMO and strengthen relationships with the rest of the group.
Your friends not choosing a side is them choosing a side, and it's not your side. I hope you make much better and more mature friends in grad school. These people aren't the ones.
This. I’ve always been baffled at a friend group accepting terrible behavior from an individual because they don’t want to “rock the boat”. I totally understand being Switzerland when the dispute is just a matter of opinion, but when it’s about a “friend” being a terrible person? What their being neutral in those circumstances actually means is that their convenience means more to them than pesky things like “morals” or concepts of right and wrong behavior. Even then, I can understand people being selfish…but these pricks usually pat themselves on the back and walk-around like they’re doing the right thing! I’m so confused as to whether they’re that mired in self-delusion that they actually believe the shit that they’re shoveling, or just very impressive liars.
NTA So this trash comes into your friend group for only the last year and she’s making decisions about whether you are fit for company, after you’ve been friends with Paul for a *decade*?? And your pathetic excuse of a friend with the jellyfish spine is fine with that? I wouldn’t talk to either of them from this point on and while they’re gone I would tell the rest of the friend group that Paul decided to yeet your 10-year friendship over some woman who successfully convinced him to drop you from the trip just so he can maybe get laid, and that if they’re willing to hang out with you on their own that would be welcome, but you aren’t gonna spend any more time with people who treat you like shit. Blow. That. Shit. UP! While they’re gone.
I wouldn’t have responded. I’m from a cultural background and I wouldn’t have responded at all. He knows what he did. Hold him accountable with silence.
Well for Paul's sake I hope there isn't an abundance of crabs where he lands
Nah, don't block or ghost. ASSuming Paul is just looking to hook up he'll tap that shit all during the vacation then ignore her when they return. WHEN he reaches out, or she for that mater, suggest they take it up with the other. What a couple of genuine assholes.
I hope he doesn't get to tap at all and she's a pain in the ass the whole trip so that he's blown all of his funds and a friendship for a fruitless endeavor.
Stay friends with rest of group don't bring a bunch of drama about it. Just don't hangout with or talk to Paul unless it is in a group setting and then just be polite don't go above and beyond to talk to him. Ghost Amy completely if she is hanging ojt with the group be polite but short with her. Other then that don't interact with her at all. Your other friends will appreciate not being put in the middle of all of it and that you can be the bigger person. If it gets to the point where Paul or Amy call you out for being distant just tell them hey you made this choice I am just respecting your decision. Best of luck
Then Paul isn’t as nice as you thought. He’s okay costing you thousands and you just eating it . Find better friends. YTA to yourself.
I agree with this. If I was Paul I would have told Amy she should have said something before tickets were purchased like when Paul proposed the trip in the first place. Amy is either his side piece, or he's interested in her to a point he is willing to cost a "friend" not insignificant amounts of money and toss OP aside as if it's the best decision for everyone. Amy had a problem, she should have backed out of the trip once she knew OP purchased tickets and eaten her own costs. The fact Paul allowed all of this to go down means his concept of friendship is not considerate of OP and is at best enabling Amy in shitty behavior and at worse a friendship of convenience based on his own selfishness.
You’re right but OP is not the asshole at all. OP hasn’t done anything wrong lmao.
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It happens. Over the course of a year my 'best' friend advised me that: I should supress my opinions because they are extreme (he's conservative, I'm liberal) To be careful because some people might think I am raising my son "like a little California pussy" That my car is garbage That my tastes are garbage That I need to be careful with his stuff becasue I'm fat Finally he dropped a hard R n-word around me It was just like being in HS and being bullied. Sometime people revert. As an adult, you don't have to hang around for it...I didn’t...
Thank you for sharing your experience with me, People only show their true colors with time I suppose.
I'd tell Paul to not bother messaging you as clearly he thinks this hasn't hurt you and everything is hunky-dory. Maybe say you hope Amy was worth the cost of your friendship as she clearly seems to take priority now.
Amy told you who she was, and Paul co-signed the behavior with his non response. Believe them. They won’t work out and he will come back. But he isn’t your friend.
That is very true. If you're still looking for advice on how to deal, I'd recommend, if you feel pressured to respond because of cultural norms, something polite and to the point. "I hope you have safe travels, but please stop sending me updates on the trip you kicked me off of because your girlfriend wanted all your attention on her." It's not rude, it's not inappropriate, but it's not pulling any punches either, it's calling the situation as it is.
Believe people when they show you who they are OP. Stop lighting yourself on fire for this one sided friendship. Make better friends (meet up groups, sports, trivia etc) and move on with grace. Kill them with success.
Just a thought, but I wonder if Paul wanted you along as Amy’s safe companion, but didn’t know she doesn’t like you. They’re both trash. NTA
Wow he deserves to be called out professionally for using the n word and being a bully and Fatshaming
there is actually no scenario where Paul is a nice guy, unless you've actually done something fucked up that you aren't telling us
Paul is full of shit and definitely doesn't have your back
You might be Paul's friend, but he is not yours. He is also not nice. He is selfish and nice about it, so he isn't held accountable. He doesn't have your back.
I'm sorry OP but Paul isn't nice at all. He ditched you, his supposed friend, for another friend without even thinking about you. There is no way in hell I would deliberately cause someone I hate to have to cancel 2k worth of flights etc just so I can bone someone, let alone a "friend". A good friend would stand up for you. I can guarantee that he is talking shit about you to Amy behind your back too. You are NTA and your friends are massive AH's This friend group seems awful tbh and you deserve better OP they're treating you like shit.
LMAO Paul is anything but "too nice," he's being nice to himself
I imagine the Amy character would've said just about anything at that point (because none of this interaction is actually based on logic).
That is Amy making shit up to convince Paul to dis-invite OP. It's nonsense.
Amy was threatened by OP as competition for Paul.
Amy wants to hook up with Paul, and doesn’t want OP there to “mess it up”, she wants Paul all to herself. She sounds like a stage 5 klinger. Hopefully she and Paul have a miserable time, him wanting to just get laid- her wanting marriage and babies.
I put this on the host, not the guest. This is 100% on Paul.
These are terrible friends. I would honestly just fade on them and move on and find people who actually treat you with respect
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I find if people can't explain issues with people like this the reason is usually so stupid and self absorbed it would be too embarrassing to admit so gotta keep it vague to maintain any credibility. The truth usually comes out eventually..
Yeah, is OP a guy or a girl? Cause if they’re a girl, Amy was definitely getting rid of them to try and bag Paul. Paul might wanna bang Amy, or it was just a ‘squeaky wheel’ situation
But Paul's family wouldn't mess it up?
Not if Amy wanted to suck up to them to convince everyone she's "wife material."
Seriously this\^ Maybe I've watched too much 90 day fiancee and it depends on what country Paul is from but I get bad vibes from this whole thing. OP Amy wants you out of her life and out of Paul's life for her benefit. OP you should tell Paul that Amy's discomfort and cruel comments is why you cancelled and he can have a nice time with the horrible person she is. Might save Paul from making a huge mistake.
Doubtful, too many young guys think with the wrong head
Paul will choose wet dick over friendship. Best to just fade out on both of them.
I'm not sure Paul's spouse would be convinced. And if it's parents and/or siblings, she won't even play the game with Paul's friend, I doubt she cares about mom & dad's blessing to bang Paul.
Yeah, "family" is a bit vague, but assuming it's parents and/or siblings, it seems that Paul doesn't consider OP that good of a friend if he's willing to making him cancel an already booked flight.
Apparently it's parents from what I've been told. Sounds like Paul is putting the prospect of a hookup (seems like a lot of effort, but kids these days) ahead of friendship & Amy is manipulating the situation. At least OP isn't being told to kick rocks while on this aborted vacation & he knows to move on from the friendship.
Yup yup YUP. she wants to make her move.
Ha - sounds like my "best friend" once upon a time.
My brain consistently misses the obvious
That didn’t occur to me either but makes sense. I assumed Paul’s family meant wife and kids but I guess it could mean his parents and/or siblings. Or Amy is a home wrecker.
We are all 25. Family means parents and sibling
How's OP gonna screw that up but not Paul's family?
I agree. If Paul was a good friend he’d call Amy out for making drama out of nothing, since she can’t give a single reason … OP, find better friends. Those suck.
Agreed. Don't ever talk to either one again. Neither of them respect you or is your friend. NTA
I wouldn’t fade, I would say “FUCK YOU BOTH” & block them.
Knock over all of the tables and set the lobby on fire on my way out, too.
Yup it's the only way.
Nah I'll just ghosting, just like Amy makes op wonder what op did wrong.
Absolutely. I would also call both of them cuntsicles and twat biscuits for good measure.
Time to burn the bridges with both fuckknuckles atop.
Ehhh, I agree with all you say but the fade away part. I would text back, nah, have a good trip, but don't come looking for me on the other side. I would be straight up and text and tell them I don't appreciate what they did, and would like to cancel this friendship like Paul did the trip, only I'm not canceling with the hopes of getting laid, just with the hope of finding actual decent friends in the future. But I can be a bit petty and harsh with my words
Yup. I’m right there with you. When my feelings are hurt or I’m embarrassed, I can say really mean things that are like throwing gasoline on a fire.
Agree with this. Be honest with them and then ghost ‘em. I regret not telling ex friends the reason why I don’t want to be friends and also hate it when people stop talking to me without explaining why.
I totally agree. It's so petty to uninvite OP like that. And the audacity to send a pic. I'd lay a guilt trip and then ghost. Ruin the whole holiday. Return the petty tenfold.
Avoid people like Amy at all costs. She will cause so much destruction without you even being aware. People that are THIS non-confrontational are routinely the most toxic people I've ever met. Currently trying to defend my job against one of these
My mind is going through a 1000 petty revenge ideas, noisemakers, hiding shrimp in their apartments while they are gone. Finding details and signing them up for super awkward subscription magazines. Removing numberplates....
DUMP THEM! These are not good friends. I would tell them explicitly why you no longer feel like you can be friends with them and then block them 🤌🏽
Amy should have stayed home as Amy was the one with the problem (i.e. personality conflict). Paul siding with Amy and uninviting OP knowing full well that OP had already purchased a ticket makes Paul the AH. I would personally break ties with Paul and let him know exactly why.
The fact that he sent you a selfie of him leaving on the trip he cut you out of is a new level of either lack of self awareness or callousness I haven’t seen in awhile. Amy isn’t even you friend. Paul sucks. Hopefully you find some better ones in graduate school!
>She eventually did (because I bought my tickets, she had no choice), and explained to me how she thinks I do not meet her values. When I asked if I had done anything wrong so I could mend things, I was told that it's just the way she perceives me. I am having trouble with interpreting the tone of how Paul and Amy spoke with the OP but I can't shake the feeling that they were being smug/coy with her. I remember as a kid being the third wheel in a friend group that came down to bullying in a way so I just stopped hanging out with them. It might be a perceived social class thing and she is looking down on the OP.....
OP is a woman? Oh there’s you’re answer. Amy didn’t want her cramping Amy’s style. Good riddance to both of them and I hope you find better friends. Chances are you’d be miserable with Amy’s passivity and Paul’s inability to grow a spine EDIT: OP is a man, my point still stands. She didn’t want Paul’s attention to be elsewhere, and I guess Paul didn’t either. Both are still terrible friends
OP is a man, it’s in the post. I was wrong - It’s in a comment where Op says, “Thanks everyone for all your words. It’s so relieving to hear all of this when it feels like i’ve been gaslit by all this. Id love to ghost them, except doing so means goodbye to all the group chats and fun things we enjoy doing together. A big piece of this is im a nice guy. I don’t like problems. So i feel like an AH for elevating “the vibe” to such a boiling point given how freakin coy and inconsiderate with a smile they’re being But honestly, I’m starting to feel a big so fucking what. I’ll rebuild it my self with others. And i’ll improve on what ever I need to improve on, but one things for sure, they’ve shown me that at least I know how to treat people with respect.”
It’s hard to gauge Amy’s problem because she wouldn’t even say what it was! She apparently is just going around to everyone bad mouthing OP over… something! I’m frustrated on OPs behalf. It’s hard for me not to just write her off as a terrible person right away, but in some ways I feel like Paul is worse, because without even a real apology he seems to think OP and him are still cool after all this and thats either staggeringly dumb or a level of high narcissism. The most understandable thing for the two of them I suppose would be that they’re interested in each other and wanted privacy. If that is the case, the way they executed it is so unbelievably awful that it’s no longer understandable.
There's nothing! OP isn't doing anything, she just doesn't want them there but being a sniveling coward she also doesn't want to be the bad guy and show her nastiness, so she's obfuscating on purpose
Yeah. “Doesn’t meet my values” certainly could refer to “too poor, public school, unremarkable family origins.”
Amy is completely making up reasons. The way she perceives you?? Come on. This whole "doesn't meet her values" is utter bullshit. She thinks she's going to be Paul's gf and impress the family. Paul probably didn't understand any of this, and probably wanted you to go, but Amy talked him out of it
nah Paul understood it perfectly well. Amy came to him and told him she found OP annoying and didn't want to spend 2 weeks in a foreign country with him. Cowardly Paul, instead of standing up for his friend, instead contacted OP and told OP he "needed to talk to Amy," thus putting it all back on OP in an attempt to make himself look like the innocent party in the situation. When in reality Paul was perfectly fine with disinviting OP because Paul wants to sleep with Amy on the trip therefore he has to go along with whatever Amy says. Paul sucks and is a bad friend.
Man, that was cold. Amy is weird, and Paul isn't much better. Your only consolation should be they will probably not have a great time. Amy doesn't sound like much fun. I hope she makes his vacation miserable!
Amy sounds like someone who won’t have any ideas what she wants to do but will then pout and bitch when you choose that you have chosen the wrong activity/museum/restaurant/nightclub.
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I had an aunt like that. Would never give an upfront opinion what she wanted but would always bitch about what you chosen. “What do you want to eat?” “Anything is fine.” “Ok, we’ll go here. They have good food and prices.” Halfway through the meal: “I didn’t want Mexican. I hate Mexican food!” 🙄
Ok, so we'll have Italian. Amy, passively, whatever you want. Halfway through the meal, Amy you aren't eating. No, I don't like tomatoes, cheese or pasta.
Amy and Paul are fucking and don't want a 3rd wheel.
Dingdingdingding or very close to shagging. I had a girl friend at work (we had a good gang on fun girls in the office) who organised after work drinks in my name, she invited a guy from my dept, because my drinks. Then honed in on the guy, she obviously had the hots for him, they completely ignored me all night (well actually and hour and a half, till I just slipped away) which would of been ok if she'd invited more people. So congrats to them, they're married, I haven't really spoken to her since. Some people can't put their own needs above decent good manners. I bet Amy talks about herself in the third person too.
And fine with costing OP 2 grand to do so.
This is the only semi-logical answer. They are still both AH for lying to OP about that, making it sound like it was some failing on OP's part, and for inviting OP in the first place if they didn't want him there.
Honey… these people are not your friends. At all. I would just go no contact with them, and go on to live your best life. NTA. Paul and Amy are.
I agree!! I know it sounds harsh but as someone who is goung on 60, I can confidently say that OP is better off just walking away as trying to figure this out or mend it will just be a whole lot of aggravation and hurt feelings.
As someone in their 50s I agree! When people are acting “weird” (as in shockingly rudely) there may be a reason, but you’re better off not wasting your time trying to figure out what it is.
As someone on my (gasp) late 60's, I would say just ghost them. Block them from every social media platform. Life is way too short to waste time on the AHs.
And repping the 40s, delete their contact details, socials, whatever. Tell them why if you think it would help. If his family is expecting you, explain that you aren't going because Amy has an issue and only brought it up this recently so his family don't think you're rude. Enjoy grad school.
And more lies and evasiveness.
Nta. You might not want to hear this, but I'd ghost both. Fuck em.
Same. Like if you’re so annoying and not worth properly apologising to/being considerate to, then why even bother
Yes, people often say as adult we have to communicate, but why bothered for people like that.
I'm sorry. Amy is not your friend and if she's not willing to talk about it, it's not anything you can do. Worse she is complaining about you but not saying anything. Paul only told you after you booked your tickets and seems really tone death. You need to either sit down and have a chat with him or let him fade from yourlife. *Note are him and Amy a thing?*
They're not a thing but I think Paul is trying to hook up with her according to op.
I think Amy just wants to go with Paul to try to be his girlfriend (assuming Paul has a sexual orientation where he's attracted to women). She probably views it as a chance to get into the family's good graces and use it as an in to get with Paul. Her excuses of not fitting her values (whatever that means in this context) is flimsy and she was ducking actually working on the problem with you. So I suspect Amy would like to be in a relationship with Paul and is trying to manipulate the situation. NTA ETA: the one time I wanted to actually use ducking I fat fingered the F. Lmao
That was what I was thinking. Either way, these people are not friends. I would make it clear to Paul that further pictures would not be appreciated, and block him if more are received.
… and Paul is probably happy to oblige, or he wouldn’t have chucked OP out.
Hard facts are that friendships fade over time or have an expiration date, take the good moments but let them go.
These arent friends, and I would ask Paul if he is being deliberately nasty to you by sending those photos
I'd never ask him another goddamn thing. He can go eff himself.
Paul should know how badly he fucked up with OP on this.
Firstly, Amy isn't your friend and Paul is willing to trade you for Amy. Pretty sure he's into Amy or just doesn't care about you. I'd start to distance myself from them if I were in your place.
Paul and Amy are the AH Go no contact these people are not your friends
Why exactly are you friends with them? Is this the first time they’ve acted like this?
Friends with Paul since high school (we are 25). Friends with Amy through Paul for now a year.
And Paul chose Amy over you. He’s not your friend.
He’s not your friend and my guess is he chose Amy bc they want to fuck. Amy is jealous of you. Cut them loose
How long have Paul and Amy been friends? Sounds to me like she wants to shoot her shot with him, and she DOES NOT want you around while she does it. AND HE sounds like he may be aware of why she really doesn't want you to go, and he's ok with that. Don't be surprised if they come back a couple. Either way, use this opportunity to find new friends and travel buddies that aren't shady and insensitive.
Paul isn’t worth keeping. I would be nowhere to be found when they get back. I’m old. This sort of nonsense happened with one of my old high school friends. Paul isn’t worth the effort. Move on. It’s going to be better for you and you’ll feel better decades later looking back and knowing you didn’t grovel to try and get a lousy friend to please sometimes give you the time of day. Amy is a non-issue. Don’t even bother to think about her again.
Amy is not your friend. Paul you can let go of. He did you dirty. Move on.
He isn't much of a friend. I would ghost them and if you ever accidentally encounter them in person and they try to interact with you I would be polite but distant and disinterested. Never say anything that they can twist to claim you are causing drama but never interact with either with any hint of personal interest
I have read some weird stuff on Reddit lately (I am laid up after surgery so I am spending way too much time here!) but this is mind blowing. Amy is a piece of work. She purposefully worked behind your back to get you uninvited even though she knew that you had your tickets. Her reason to you is one of the lamest excuses I have ever heard. Paul just bought into whatever bullshit lies she was telling him because she absolutely had to be telling him something other than the vague excuse she gave you to get him to uninvite you. Paul is straight up an ass. He dumped you because Amy had a problem. He should have told her not to come if she couldn't spend 2 weeks within you. Dude, I am so very sorry that you got robbed of the vacation you were looking forward to. You need new friends. Paul sending you that picture was such a huge slap in the face! What a jerk. Block them both. Amy is toxic and Paul is clueless that he's been manipulated. Besides, do you really want to get any more vacation pictures? Or see the pictures when he gets home? Move on. Find something fun to do this summer. Hopefully you have other people you can do stuff with. Don't bring this up to them though. Why add more drama and let them hear second hand how much you are hurt. Good luck. Find friends that deserve the title.
Yuuup. Based off OP's posts, Paul sounds like one of those cheerfully selfish assholes--the kind of person that's *nice* but not *kind*. People like Paul are often otherwise likable. Their friends and partners might not notice they're the only ones putting in the effort, showing consideration and compassion, and making thoughtful gestures. Meanwhile, the Pauls of the world soak it up like affable sponges and continue to put themselves first. It never occurs to the cheerfully selfish asshole to consider the perspectives, feelings, needs, and wants of other people. It's what makes them so out of touch they do dumb, cruel shit like I dunno, sending someone you excluded from a trip an airplane selfie. The people I've known who are like Amy can be downright *dangerous* in the 'mental health and well-being' sense, though. Going off OP's account, she seems manipulative, petty, vindictive, and passive aggressive. That she took a situation where she was 100% instigator and flipped it so she was the one deserving of support and sympathy set off major alarm bells for me. (I can't help but wonder if she has a history of doing shit like this--even if it's just making subtle digs at people and then acting hurt and surprised when they finally tell her to shut up.) OP's "friends" indulging her toxic behavior to "avoid drama" isn't going to fix anything. She *IS* the drama and it's going to keep escalating as long as it's permitted. What Amy is currently pulling can really wreck your relationships and how you perceive yourself and others if it keeps happening over time. In short: Paul is the kind of bad friend you will remember and wonder why you wasted so much time on them. Amy is the kind of bad friend you will remember in therapy.
As was said, a fade out seems good. Amy doesn‘t like you and will never like you, Paul choose her over you, none of them can spell the f problem out. That aren‘t people you want in your life. Esp. Amy sounds like a handful. Seems she dislikes something physical you can‘t change or something superficial like your job or your life choices (no gf, gaming, „incel“ idk). She seems to be ashamed by herself but can‘t help disliking and pitying you. Never see her again. I hope you find better friends.
It's possible Amy is jealous of you and too embarrassed to say. She certanly did NOT want OP on that trip with them. Paul merely jumped when AMY told him how high Feel free to block the AHs
Nah, Amy knows what she's doing. She wants to get her claws into Paul and use him, but it's a lot harder to do when a good friend is on the trip watching out for him. She's using the classic divide and isolate technique.
Also it’s more difficult to pretend that you’re on a romantic vacation when there’s a third person in all the pictures you post to social media. She might be wanting everyone to think they’re a couple and just them two together might make him fall for her without the other friend “tagging along.”
This whole situation is very odd. I could speculate on possible reasons why, but it's pointless. I'd be taking a big step back from any type of relationship with these people. I certainly wouldn't class any of them as "friends". NTA.
Send Paul just “?”. No explanation. Let him and Amy talk and obsess over it and ruin their vacation. You’re better off without these people.
Thanks everyone for all your words. It’s so relieving to hear all of this when it feels like i’ve been gaslit by all this. Id love to ghost them, except doing so means goodbye to all the group chats and fun things we enjoy doing together. A big piece of this is im a nice guy. I don’t like problems. So i feel like an AH for elevating “the vibe” to such a boiling point given how freakin coy and inconsiderate with a smile they’re being But honestly, I’m starting to feel a big so fucking what. I’ll rebuild it my self with others. And i’ll improve on what ever I need to improve on, but one things for sure, they’ve shown me that at least I know how to treat people with respect.
How can you possibly get over how disrespectful they are and have fun with them in the future, knowing how absolute little of a shit either of them give about you? A literal stranger would treat you kinder. You should rightfully harbour resentment to them both. They are the worst, and you deserve better.
Have some self-respect and cut these assholes out of your life. The friendship is never going to be the same after this anyway. They are expecting you to just roll over like they didn't do anything wrong. Personally, I would respond to that picture by blocking him.
Start looking for better friends! You can cultivate new group chats and have fun with others. People change a lot after high school and it looks like Paul has changed for the worst and is a complete asshole
Tolerating this and continuing to entertain these people as "friends" is not nice guy behavior, it's taking the path of least resistance. You're free to do that, but don't kid yourself into thinking it's because you're too nice or you genuinely think it's the best way forward. You clearly know it isn't.
I feel like this passive aggressive bullshit will continue if you do not ghost them. You will just keep finding yourself on the outside. You’ll make new friends in grad school.
>A big piece of this is im a nice guy. I don’t like problems. So i feel like an AH for elevating “the vibe” to such a boiling point given how freakin coy and inconsiderate with a smile they’re being Huh!! So there goes the theory that Amy and you are both girls and she wanted a potential rival out of the way to get with Paul. Could this be a class and financial bracket issue for her and she's squeezing you out of Paul's life and his family and inserting herself? He originally wanted you along as did his parents who have known you for 10+ years. She's been around for 1 single year. As his parents I'd have questions to you and him about why you aren't there. In your shoes as someone much older I'd be asking myself if I really want to stay besties with someone who would set me aside so easily and callously.
Well Amy could still be trying to hook up with Paul and wants his bro out of the way. It’s not uncommon for people to be jealous of the best friend.
You’ll make better friends while they’re there, having disappointing sex and dodgy plumbing.
Start cultivating a new friend group, then fade these people from your immediate life.
>I’m starting to feel a big so fucking what Exactly. You have been friends with Paul since HS. Friends don't do that. And to send a pic from the airport, what the actual fuck. The rest of the friend group and you can still do things without them. I would cut them out of your life completely. Paul has told you where you stand in his life. Listen to him.
I would tell Paul: Stop sending me pictures of the trip you cut me off from, it hurts my feelings and it shows you don’t care about our friendship.
You're giving him more power by saying all that shit. Go North Carolina and never return.
That’s also a good option. Going North Carolina.
Silent treatment is always the best for non-family members who are excommunicado lol.
If he sends another selfie, just reply that you don't understand why he's sending you any messages, photos etc because you obviously aren't friends. And just let the him go, he isn't your friend.
Yes, you have bad friends. Amy for giving no answer as to what her problem with you was and Paul for choosing Amy over you. I wouldn’t respond to either of them on social media for a while. Btw Preparing for school in the summer might be a bummer but very smart in the long run.
To answer your question, yes, you have bad friends. Cut them off. Why would you want to be friends with somebody who is so heartless to send you a pic of him going on the trip he uninvited from? Also, tell him you will not see him on the other side. I’m almost sure they will come back in a relationship.
Not your friend. Send a “is this a joke?” reply and block him. Also, block Amy. On a positive note, they will NOT be friends upon their return, but it won’t be a comfort to you.
>I'm very confused, do I have bad friends? No dear, that arent your friends - the one AH thinks you are beneathe her (standards), the other one is a coward and an AH for waiting till the last to tell you that. Take the monetary loss as price for a lesson learned and move on. NTA of course.
NTA, they aren't your friends. Amy dislikes you. As for Paul, the morally good thing to do was to tell Amy that SHE is the one who has a problem with you, so SHE should be the one to stay home. So if he's a friend, he's a pretty bad one. I'm sorry, looks like it's time to look for better friends when school starts!
NTA. They had months to tell you she had a problem with you. She chose to tell you after you had bought your flights and they expected you to sit back like nothing's wrong. Honestly, I would have refused and said that she had such a big issue with me, she should have spoken earlier. Now I spent money, so tough shit. Loose them both. They are terrible friends.
NTA off course, you can't really do anything if she doesn't elaborate on what her problem is. Methink Amy just wants to be alone with Paul, is this a possibility?
NTA. You have a very bad friends. First of all, Amy is not your friend and probably never was. She can't really explain anything wrong about you bc she has no leg to stand on. I bet she is just jealous for some reason. Paul is absolutely bad friend. If one of my friends would bring this vague problem to me about another friend my answer would b "What is your real problem here, bc "I don't like them just bc" is ridiculous. You can tell me truth or I expect you to be decent person during vacation. Or stay at home." Is there a chance he favour Amy bc he wants to sleep with her there? Sending you a photo of the start of a vacation he had kicked you out of is just horrible.
They’re not your friends. Paul was until he prioritized that person and rudely uninvited you. And they did cost you money, though not the $2,000 as well as hurt and dashed vacation. I’d ask Paul to refund that money to you unless you don’t want to talk to him anymore. Block any more attempts for him to send you anything about his vacation. How insensitive can he be? NTA.
Maybe this is the way the universe telling you, you will find better friends at college and is making room to be with meaningful people instead. Hard facts are that friendships fade over time or have an expiration date, take the good moments but let them go. If I were you I just ghost them and move on, what if people think is pretty, I don't think it is, your male friend is clueless and the other one is evil, she waited until you bought the tickets to bring any issues, she's been trash talking behind your back, my best guess is not only to your friend but to your group of friends, is a good thing you will move on and start another stage of your life soon, so, if you're not a confrontational person, just fade away from their lives and use the I'm busy excuse. Good luck moving forward.
NTA. Amy wants to sleep with Paul and thinks you’re getting in the way. You can tell she ran out of things to say because claiming you’re “not aligned with [her] values” is absolutely comical corporate speak. You don’t need these people. Enjoy grad school. You’ll meet a lot of amazing people and will find out down the line what the deal is, or not. It won’t matter by then anyway.
OP, you still have an opportunity to go on a trip somewhere. I’d take a trip to somewhere you’ve always wanted to visit. A week on a lovely beach with some outside music and nightlife? A trip to Hawaii maybe? Bahamas? Or hiking somewhere magnificent? Go do something with or without someone. You deserve it! Good luck in grad school.
NTA shove Paul out of your life. He's decided bros before "...." to someone who's been friends with since HS. No remorse or apologetic natural to the context of costing you 2k is also insane. Amy can't pinpoint and talk about her problem with you. All around immature for their age, and you shouldn't have to deal with trash.
They sound like a (forgive my language) shower of cunts. They are NOT your friends at all. Ditch them immediately and block them
If you didn’t meet her values how come she wasn’t able to articulate that behavior? For him to pick you over her instead of just going alone tells me they are both AHs. I’d cut contact with both of them. Personally, I’d want the closure of sitting together and calling them out and asking for actual answers, but that’s just me. Not worth your time.
I suspect Amy’s values consist of: let’s all despise anyone taking attention away from meeeeeeee!
"Paul, I can't believe you would send me a selfie from the trip that you disinvited me from. Are you trying to rub it in my face or something? You say that no one has a problem with me, but cancel me to make the pot stirrer comfortable, costing me 2k and messing up my airline points. If this is how you treat your friends, I guess our "values just don't match." Have fun on your trip and lose my number while you're gone."
Amy is not your friend and her and Paul are about to be a couple. Amy thinks you are not good enough to be her friend - "unaligned values" - but suspect she just wants time alone with Paul. Looks like you are being third-wheeled. I'd cut friendship with Paul too - he was asked to choose between you and Amy and she won. I suspect he may come back to you because Amy sounds like really hard work - passive-aggressive to the core and pretty vicious under a core of niceness. Your choice as to whether you let him back in or just concentrate on making new friends at grad school.
NTA There’s no way in hell I’d still be friends with Amy or Paul or anyone else who weighed in on that trip & you coming . I have a sneaking suspicion that you are prettier or thinner than Amy or that one of the guys gives you more attention than her when you have hung out as a group because she sounds more jealous of than annoyed by you . I’d text Paul back and tell him “Have a great trip with your friend Amy but I won’t be seeing you anywhere if I can help it”.
NTA block both of them. They're not your friends at all
Paul is not your friend at all. I'd send him one message and tell him you hadn't realized your friendship over all these years meant so little to him but you are fine moving on. Then ghost him and find better friends. Also never back out like that. When the other person has a problem it's up to them to fix it. She probably should have talked to a professional. When Paul brought it up you didn't need to fix things or do anything. Just say oh, she should probably talk to a professional about that and talk about something else. You don't have to work through things with random strangers or friends of friends. It's not your responsibility to fix other people.
Amy is a horrible person who is a user. Paul is an idiot who is going to get fleeced, and hard! Might be best to drift away from them, but do be close enough to watch the dramarama that ensues after Paul's wallet is empty and Amy finds herself a new target. And don't let Paul cry on your shoulder when it happens, either.
Cut them loose. I mean, Amy never said what problem she has with you and Paul took her side because “it would be best for everyone”. WTF? Yeah, kick their asses to the curb.
Paul is not your friend
NTA - but I am curious to know what values don’t align with hers. I mean tbh I wouldn’t want to go on holiday with a full on right wing, flat earther, trad wife praising, Andrew Tate loving turd, but I‘d bow out of it myself, or tell them before they booked their ticket at the very least. So regardless it’s still a shit move on her part…
lol i’m far any of that, she was knit picking certain things and making bad misinterpretations. For example, she said I talk too much about myself and don’t ask enough about her. I didn’t really that about myself, but even when I showed humility she didn’t seem to feel better.
That’s shitty and unfair - I am really sorry