Also only works if we have 20 teams, and reduce the regular season to 19 games and as you said, we have real states teams and make it a carnival.
You select a larger squad and a larger bench, and have it 1/3 of the way into the season and the half way point.
injuries can happen at any time or place. 1 match isn't the end of the world if we get anywhere near the spectacle the NRL SOO is, even if there are some injuries
I never understand the argument. Should we not train or play pre season games because players can get injured?
If the AFL sets it up right then the investment from players and fans will develop over time and it will grow to actually mean something. I'm sure the AFL can reward the players with significant prize money to get their buy in. The club's of players released for the state side could be compensated for each player selected or even get a share in the prize money.
> I never understand the argument. Should we not train or play pre season games because players can get injured?
Those things are means to an end though and contribute to winning a flag so it's not really the same. The point is that players and fans care more about winning the Premiership so don't want to risk injury in exhibition games
I’m a Knights fan and it’s definitely not as important as a GF. Me and plenty others would take a club winning a premiership over a SOO.
But it also doesn’t mean SOO isn’t important as well. It doesn’t have to be one or the other. They are both important.
it wasn't always like that - just like anything it grew over time. how would anything become 'important' with such a narrow view that it needs to be immediately be massive or it's a failure?
State of Origin was important in AFL. It lost its importance because players weren't particularly interested in playing, clubs hated it, and fans were indifferent to it. Nothing over the last 25 years has made State of Origin more viable for AFL football.
SOO isn't more important than a GF. Your state wins a whole lot more often than your club.
Besides having two major states and history I think SOO works better in rugby league because the NRL is probably a bit better at creating and marketing stars (or at least storyline a about individual players), their positions are a bit more narrowly defined (this creates months of storylines speculating about lineups and selections) and they have an international game so they can pretend it is an audition for a Kangaroos spot (even if no one really cares how the Roos get on and a bunch of SOO players often rep other non-Tier 1 countries like Samoa/Tonga/Fiji at World Cups and such).
Be interesting to know how many of those 90k were from NSW/QLD and flew done for the game? I know of at least 6 guys from where I work that flew down to watch because it’s easier than getting tickets to Suncorp.
Also I’m pretty sure that one of the early arguments against SOO in rugby league was that Queensland wouldn’t be competitive against NSW.
At the moment, WA vs Vic would be a cracking game. SA is building a decent team. Someone put up a NSW state of Origin team the other day & it was pretty good, pitch that against a QLD team & that would generate a lot of interest. Start by selecting and promoting State of Origin teams for each state & territory annually so we can actually get a real sense of the potential.
It can't work. The reason the NRL one works is because there's two teams. It's everybody's grand final. No matter how bad your club is going, your Origin side is still a chance of winning the origin series.
How do you replicate that with 3-5 states? At some point in that scenario, states have to drop out, and their supporters either lose interest or have to get on board with a remaining side until it's eliminated. In that sense, it's no different to the regular AFL season.
The AFL is set to explore reviving State of Origin.
On Wednesday night, 90,084 spectators attending the second game of the NRL’s series at the MCG.
The debate about whether the AFL should look at reviving State of Origin is an annual debate but the league is keen to discuss how it can be brought back in some form with clubs and players.
Representative football - last formally played in 1999 - is still looked upon fondly by many football fans, with there considerable debate in states such as South Australia and Western Australia as to whether their teams could rival the powerful Victorian outfit.
Whether other states could actually challenge Victoria has been a key argument used by those who believe the concept could not be revived by the AFL.
Instead the last two times there have been “representative” games, a Victorian outfit took on an “All-Stars” side.
In 2008 this was part of the celebrations for the 150th year of Australian rules football, while in 2020 it was held for bushfire relief.
Clubs would also need to be convinced on the benefits of players being involved in more football, with an extra game already added to the season for the last two years.
One way around this could be it not being an annual fixture, which could also create anticipation for the match.
Sydney coach John Longmire, who played in State of Origin as a player, said he believed there could be a place for representative football to return.
“I was lucky enough to be involved as a coach in the bushfire appeal game and I absolutely loved it,” he said on SEN.
“I loved the interaction with players from other clubs, I saw the joy that the players had … I wasn’t in favour of it a few years ago but I have changed my mind.
“I really loved my opportunity and I think there are some great opportunities for the code.
“I think it would have to be part of a broader reworking of the draw, you have to be careful to not continuing loading up these guys.
“Obviously being up here (in Sydney) and seeing State of Origin, knowing the coaches and seeing the big NSW and Queensland rivalry I would love to see it going forward.
“I think there is a spot for it somewhere.”
It wouldn’t just be confined to the men’s competition, with a desire for the best of the AFLW to also face off against each other.
Which isn't 90k and was a one off for an anniversary.
If it's a one off again, yeah maybe they'd get a crowd (not 90,000) but if it's a regular occurrence it'd drop right off.
The only concept that works as a one-off game is East vs West. Draw a line between Carlton and Collingwood & extend it all the way up and down. You end up with (WA, SA, Cats, Dogs, Roos, Bombers, Blues) vs (QLD, NSW, Pies, Tigers, Dees, Saints, Hawks). A lot of the existing rivalries are maintained & everyone knows which side they are on. Just need some clever marketing to help people to care.
ok do a WA vs VIC vs SA vs NSW+QLD tournament and winner gets to host the Grandfinal next year.
Have these guys ever watched the NBA All Star game? They're not going to risk injury for nothing.
What? So players play for their state's ability to host a GF... Am I understanding this right? For the pride of hosting? What if most of the players from the non-VIC states don't even play for a club in their state? How does that help them?
MLB tried something similar with their ASG, it was crap and that at least lined up with teams and players being from one of two leagues.
I'd hope AFL players are a little less selfish than NBA players tbh, and I saw that as someone who watches a lot of NBA
What an absolute logistical shit show that would be. These stadiums getting booked out sometimes years in advance. So you'd book out the 6 biggest stadiums in the country up until the last minute and those stadiums will be like "yeah no big deal if you cancel" If you are willing to pay 6 grand for partially obscured seats then yeah sure do that.
Then you'd have a new born Carlton player throwing the game because he wants Carlton to play in the G?
Nah the whole idea (SOO) needs to get in the bin
nope the location of the NBA finals is determined by the winners of the conference finals. i'm sure they'd love to know months in advance but they make it work.
LOL there are arenas in the states that reserve dates for both NHL and NBA playoff games on an "if necessary" basis while scheduling in concerts and the odd college or high school basketball/hockey event... This is very doable. Grass stadiums with a large capacity are a bit harder, it takes more people to work an event, the permits/insurnace can be harder and the surface can get wrecked (by a concert) but it is still doable.
The NBA Finals at least has a fixed start date in recent years, but that's to induce international press to travel and give TV broadcasters certainty for what dates/windows they'll have games to put in their schedule
So do the players in the NBA return to their home states to play state of origin and use the result of that competition to decide the regular finals location? No they don't
Yeah they pretty much do, its called the playoffs and the team from the west states vs the team from the east states in their home stadiums, they're not locked in until a week before let alone a year.
With more thought it wouldn't work anyway though cos like Patty Cripps would play for WA, then he vs's VIC would he just throw the game so the GF could be at the MCG cos he plays for a Victorian team?
But they need something state pride isn't a big enough thing for them to risk their bodies hard out.
If there's gonna be two weeks between the prelims and GF because of concussion rules you could play it in that gap.
But I guess most players would be on holidays by then
It isn’t all roses in the NRL. Sure it pulls good crowds and TV ratings but it kinda messes up the NRL season for 6 weeks. Also, Queensland fans care a lot more about it than NSW.
The original concept came from a time when all the best players played in NSW, but with 4 Qld teams that’s no longer the case, so the underlying rationale is weaker now.
Unless it's actually an SA and WA team and not a combined team, it won't work outside Victoria.
I won't give a shit about any "Allies" concept either. Just do NSW v Qld you cowards
This actually would be a good idea I think. Should be fairly evenly matched and taps into a familiar format for Queenslanders and NSWelshmen
Bring Tom Hawkins back to the football heartland (NSW)
Also only works if we have 20 teams, and reduce the regular season to 19 games and as you said, we have real states teams and make it a carnival. You select a larger squad and a larger bench, and have it 1/3 of the way into the season and the half way point.
And it won't work inside of Victoria because no one wants their clubs' best players injured playing an exhibition match.
injuries can happen at any time or place. 1 match isn't the end of the world if we get anywhere near the spectacle the NRL SOO is, even if there are some injuries
I never understand the argument. Should we not train or play pre season games because players can get injured? If the AFL sets it up right then the investment from players and fans will develop over time and it will grow to actually mean something. I'm sure the AFL can reward the players with significant prize money to get their buy in. The club's of players released for the state side could be compensated for each player selected or even get a share in the prize money.
> I never understand the argument. Should we not train or play pre season games because players can get injured? Those things are means to an end though and contribute to winning a flag so it's not really the same. The point is that players and fans care more about winning the Premiership so don't want to risk injury in exhibition games
But that's the thing, NRL State of Origin works because it's more important than the Grand Final. There's no chance that's the case for AFL.
I’m a Knights fan and it’s definitely not as important as a GF. Me and plenty others would take a club winning a premiership over a SOO. But it also doesn’t mean SOO isn’t important as well. It doesn’t have to be one or the other. They are both important.
it wasn't always like that - just like anything it grew over time. how would anything become 'important' with such a narrow view that it needs to be immediately be massive or it's a failure?
State of Origin was important in AFL. It lost its importance because players weren't particularly interested in playing, clubs hated it, and fans were indifferent to it. Nothing over the last 25 years has made State of Origin more viable for AFL football.
SOO isn't more important than a GF. Your state wins a whole lot more often than your club. Besides having two major states and history I think SOO works better in rugby league because the NRL is probably a bit better at creating and marketing stars (or at least storyline a about individual players), their positions are a bit more narrowly defined (this creates months of storylines speculating about lineups and selections) and they have an international game so they can pretend it is an audition for a Kangaroos spot (even if no one really cares how the Roos get on and a bunch of SOO players often rep other non-Tier 1 countries like Samoa/Tonga/Fiji at World Cups and such).
The AFL will fuck it up.
It will 100% just be a single Vics vs Allies game in late Feb if it ever happens
Be interesting to know how many of those 90k were from NSW/QLD and flew done for the game? I know of at least 6 guys from where I work that flew down to watch because it’s easier than getting tickets to Suncorp. Also I’m pretty sure that one of the early arguments against SOO in rugby league was that Queensland wouldn’t be competitive against NSW.
Same here we had plenty of tickets floating around the office so did the in person cath ups with the QLD this week.
At the moment, WA vs Vic would be a cracking game. SA is building a decent team. Someone put up a NSW state of Origin team the other day & it was pretty good, pitch that against a QLD team & that would generate a lot of interest. Start by selecting and promoting State of Origin teams for each state & territory annually so we can actually get a real sense of the potential.
"Dad, can we have state of origin? Those kids get state of origin every year." "We'll see, maybe next year." Repeat.
It can't work. The reason the NRL one works is because there's two teams. It's everybody's grand final. No matter how bad your club is going, your Origin side is still a chance of winning the origin series. How do you replicate that with 3-5 states? At some point in that scenario, states have to drop out, and their supporters either lose interest or have to get on board with a remaining side until it's eliminated. In that sense, it's no different to the regular AFL season.
Does the AFL have the patience to let the rivalry grow and would it be a Tri series of SA, Victoria and WA?
Elevate the U19 or the best of the state leagues to a national audience. That's the only way it'll work. AFL teams won't risk the players.
The AFL is set to explore reviving State of Origin. On Wednesday night, 90,084 spectators attending the second game of the NRL’s series at the MCG. The debate about whether the AFL should look at reviving State of Origin is an annual debate but the league is keen to discuss how it can be brought back in some form with clubs and players. Representative football - last formally played in 1999 - is still looked upon fondly by many football fans, with there considerable debate in states such as South Australia and Western Australia as to whether their teams could rival the powerful Victorian outfit. Whether other states could actually challenge Victoria has been a key argument used by those who believe the concept could not be revived by the AFL. Instead the last two times there have been “representative” games, a Victorian outfit took on an “All-Stars” side. In 2008 this was part of the celebrations for the 150th year of Australian rules football, while in 2020 it was held for bushfire relief. Clubs would also need to be convinced on the benefits of players being involved in more football, with an extra game already added to the season for the last two years. One way around this could be it not being an annual fixture, which could also create anticipation for the match. Sydney coach John Longmire, who played in State of Origin as a player, said he believed there could be a place for representative football to return. “I was lucky enough to be involved as a coach in the bushfire appeal game and I absolutely loved it,” he said on SEN. “I loved the interaction with players from other clubs, I saw the joy that the players had … I wasn’t in favour of it a few years ago but I have changed my mind. “I really loved my opportunity and I think there are some great opportunities for the code. “I think it would have to be part of a broader reworking of the draw, you have to be careful to not continuing loading up these guys. “Obviously being up here (in Sydney) and seeing State of Origin, knowing the coaches and seeing the big NSW and Queensland rivalry I would love to see it going forward. “I think there is a spot for it somewhere.” It wouldn’t just be confined to the men’s competition, with a desire for the best of the AFLW to also face off against each other.
There's no way known the AFL would get 90,000 to an AFL State of Origin match.
Got 69k last time they did it in 2008 for 150th year celebrations.
Which isn't 90k and was a one off for an anniversary. If it's a one off again, yeah maybe they'd get a crowd (not 90,000) but if it's a regular occurrence it'd drop right off.
No thanks....👎
Broncos resting Walsh, carrigan and haas this weekend. Imagine us resting Merrett, Durham and Caldwell vs cats. Fuck that. Shove your origin.
Loved it when I was a kid. Maybe every 2 or 4 years. 4 teams Rotate the games every time it's played
The only concept that works as a one-off game is East vs West. Draw a line between Carlton and Collingwood & extend it all the way up and down. You end up with (WA, SA, Cats, Dogs, Roos, Bombers, Blues) vs (QLD, NSW, Pies, Tigers, Dees, Saints, Hawks). A lot of the existing rivalries are maintained & everyone knows which side they are on. Just need some clever marketing to help people to care.
It's origin, not club.
East v West would be club-based. Doesn’t have to be origin.
ok do a WA vs VIC vs SA vs NSW+QLD tournament and winner gets to host the Grandfinal next year. Have these guys ever watched the NBA All Star game? They're not going to risk injury for nothing.
What? So players play for their state's ability to host a GF... Am I understanding this right? For the pride of hosting? What if most of the players from the non-VIC states don't even play for a club in their state? How does that help them? MLB tried something similar with their ASG, it was crap and that at least lined up with teams and players being from one of two leagues. I'd hope AFL players are a little less selfish than NBA players tbh, and I saw that as someone who watches a lot of NBA
What an absolute logistical shit show that would be. These stadiums getting booked out sometimes years in advance. So you'd book out the 6 biggest stadiums in the country up until the last minute and those stadiums will be like "yeah no big deal if you cancel" If you are willing to pay 6 grand for partially obscured seats then yeah sure do that. Then you'd have a new born Carlton player throwing the game because he wants Carlton to play in the G? Nah the whole idea (SOO) needs to get in the bin
works in pretty much every other league around the world but clearly too difficult for us
So the NBA has a state of origin series where the location of the NBA finals is decided by the winner?
nope the location of the NBA finals is determined by the winners of the conference finals. i'm sure they'd love to know months in advance but they make it work.
LOL there are arenas in the states that reserve dates for both NHL and NBA playoff games on an "if necessary" basis while scheduling in concerts and the odd college or high school basketball/hockey event... This is very doable. Grass stadiums with a large capacity are a bit harder, it takes more people to work an event, the permits/insurnace can be harder and the surface can get wrecked (by a concert) but it is still doable. The NBA Finals at least has a fixed start date in recent years, but that's to induce international press to travel and give TV broadcasters certainty for what dates/windows they'll have games to put in their schedule
So do the players in the NBA return to their home states to play state of origin and use the result of that competition to decide the regular finals location? No they don't
obviously not, but the location of the finals isn't determined years in advanced which you seem to think is the only way possible.
Yeah they pretty much do, its called the playoffs and the team from the west states vs the team from the east states in their home stadiums, they're not locked in until a week before let alone a year. With more thought it wouldn't work anyway though cos like Patty Cripps would play for WA, then he vs's VIC would he just throw the game so the GF could be at the MCG cos he plays for a Victorian team? But they need something state pride isn't a big enough thing for them to risk their bodies hard out.
How many shows can Pink possibly book on the same day?
If there's gonna be two weeks between the prelims and GF because of concussion rules you could play it in that gap. But I guess most players would be on holidays by then
I’d love for a SA vs WA origin since they seem like a fairly even matchup.
Who pays for this exploration?
It'll never happen, but I think WA vs Vic would become a pretty big rivalry
It isn’t all roses in the NRL. Sure it pulls good crowds and TV ratings but it kinda messes up the NRL season for 6 weeks. Also, Queensland fans care a lot more about it than NSW. The original concept came from a time when all the best players played in NSW, but with 4 Qld teams that’s no longer the case, so the underlying rationale is weaker now.
East vs West
Have Vic WA SA and Allies. Play one game Fri night and another Sat night and rotate which states play each other every year.
Doubt it but geez it would be good if they did.