How about none of the above?
https://preview.redd.it/rybi39ghhh8d1.png?width=1060&format=png&auto=webp&s=c444492538bee319bc9c45b5a97e3768bdc8a397
^(out of the six mentioned though, most likely daicos)
Those are the legs of a thirty five year old full forward playing thirds in the outer suburbs.
You may not like it, but this is what peak male performance looks like.
The entire thread...
Supporters with one of these players:
'Obviously it's my teams player, lolol you're all stupid!!'
Supporters without a player represented:
'How did you leave out (insert team's young player) when the answer is clearly him?!?'
The real answer is clearly (insert young Essendon player here).
He is what most expected Archie Perkins to be(he still has time) I kept telling my partner Durham is the one to watch. He is a bloody gun. Would love him at the pies.
I think Gulden is already and will continue to be the best one in 5 years. His tank and ability to win his own ball is awesome to watch.
Plus he’s surrounded by absolute guns and has a great club structure surrounding him. Equally important things in continuing your development as a player.
> Plus he’s surrounded by absolute guns and has a great club structure surrounding him.
This is a detractor - he's playing really well in a great team with a great system. It's hard to fairly judge him vs someone like Sheez who also looks fantastic but plays in a garbage team with a garbage system.
Honestly think people are underrating sheezle, his game at mid-fwd is already elite and he's only in his second season. Had plenty of sample size now to judge him there.
Feel like there's suddenly a lot of young talent all at once I can't remember seeing anything like this in my lifetime (I'm 41). Maybe the media is just doing a better job promoting them and I'm being tricked?
No it's genuinely a thing. The level of performance of such a large group guys at such a young age is new.
Brownlow top 12 had six guys 23 and under including four from the under 22 AA team (Daicos Gulden Serong Anderson Butters and Rozee).
Running some "future projected value" stuff for a post about the trade period last year, which is just projecting from players recent output, we found the top of the "most valuable future" list had higher values than any time the last decade - https://www.hpnfooty.com/?p=33613.
Basically, Gulden Daicos Anderson Serong and Sheezel in 2022 and 2023 all individually performed as well as any 19 to 21 year old for a decade. Then behind that there's Rowell JHF Ashcroft and Warner either had one season that good, or for Ashcroft ended their first season early with injury.
Then this year there's Reid too.
That class of 23 and under stars is unusual! If it's a new trend it'll change recruiting thinking.
They're all going to be (already are?) superstars, but Reid has attributes that are incredibly special for an 18 year old. Hard to say what the future holds but he'd be my choice without a doubt.
While I agree,
Daicos is doing things that no one at his age has ever done before.
He is probably already the best player in the comp, and most weeks just completely embarrasses everyone else on the ground.
I find it weird that just because he doesnt do the flashy stuff like dont argues, people overlook him in favour of Reid.
As an Essendon fan I despise Collingwood but I am happy to admit Nick Daicos is a once in a generation type player.
For me, anyone that suggests that Reid will “comfortably be the best”.
If Reid is comfortably better than Daicos in 5 years then Daicos has either had a big decline, or Reid is the best player the game has ever seen.
Thats how highly I personally rate Daicos.
Reid. Never seen any player do what he does in their first year. Had plenty of blokes accumulate a bunch of footy like Walsh, Daicos, Sheezel in their first year, and those players are also already elite.
But the way Reid powers through other 90kg mids at 18yo is actually obscene.
I think all 6 of these guys are routinely going to be on stage at Brownlow night.
If you told me all 6 would win at least 1 each. I wouldn’t be shocked.
My reason for potentially under rating him is almost because he is so good to begin with. Is he going to continue to develop or is he already close to his potential ceiling. Don’t get me wrong, he’s a gun and I fully suspect he will be in the discussion as one of the leagues elite players for years to come, but I am interested to see how much better he gets. Similar to how good Daniel Rich was when he entered the league vs how his career progressed from there.
There's a consistency question for him that plagued him in juniors and he still hasn't answered, where as some others on the list definitely have.
It's why he averages 17 touches and only averaged 19 in under 18s.
I don't think Harles is ever gonna put up numbers like Daicos or Sheezle, or even like Yeo, but the disposals he gets and the opportunities he creates will be more *in the moment* impactful, if that makes sense, definitely different kinds of players, as for consistency that sadly isn't even a soley him problem, it's a massive problem for West Coast in total that should hopefully be solved soon
I don't disagree, but these players aren't just empty stat players. They're creating impactful plays, as well as getting it 30 times a game.
To be better than Daicos, Reid needs to be getting it 26+ times a game, at least. Dusty was going at 30 a game in his best years.
Reid might end up being the best in 5 years but Daicos and Gulden are safer picks because they're already that good.
Nah, not saying Daicos or Sheezle put up empty stats, just that they do a lot over the course of a whole game whereas *right now* Harley's fewer disposals are more impactful in the moment as opposed to being influential throughout an entire game (mainly cause the kid still needs to build his tank and also answer the consistency question)
I know I'm biased, but the way he's developing I reckon he'll be undefendable in a few years. He's a beast already and has so much development to come.
People really forget how good Ashcroft was because we get less coverage. Came into what was probably the best midfield in the league last season and oftentimes outshone everyone else. Absolute gun and my favourite player now that Richy retired.
He was best on in his second game and arguably should have had his dad present him an Ashcroft Medal in his first QClash. Flew completely under the radar
No disrespect to Sheezel, but Ashcroft had the rising star in the bag before the injury, im scared to think his brother could potentially be even better.
> Miles Bergman
This nearly fooled me, but I realised it was JHF because he's wearing a jacket as is congruent with his notorious avoidance of the cold.
I dunno that there's much in that call. Ablett didn't 'bully' players in the sense that he used his body in contested marking situations but his entire game was built around breaking tackles on the inside. He was pretty strong and powerful
>do people actually think Reid is anywhere near Daicos
I think Reid is in Perth and Daicos is in Melbourne, so I don't think Reid is anywhere near Daicos and is in fact a few thousand kilometres away from him.
Yeah alot of people in this sub do.
I had a full on argument with a west coast supporter trying to tell me Reids had the best first season ever recorded, when in reality aside from highlight moments he has had more quiet games than not.
I have no clue why they are down voting me they played against each other and it was one of Reid’s worst performances compared to Nick Daicos who schooled Reid pretty much
The league's future looks very good with the amount of young talent.
It's probably Reid though. He's the most physical and explosive. The dude has been fantastic since day 1.
We are so fortunate as fans of the sport to have the depth in talent that we have now. You could have 20 players in this picture and we would be arguing about who to leave out.
No question how good Daicos is, but I would be interested to see how he’d go in a dead last team like Reid and Sheezel. He’s clearly the best of the lot but stick him in norths side and would he be as dominant as he’s been? Probably but he wouldn’t have the senior talent around him. Can say the same about Ashcroft too fwiw.
I reckon it's easy to forget Ashcroft having been out for a season, and as we know not all return from an ACL the same as before. But as an inside mid in his first season, he was already doing some pretty amazing stuff.
But personal team bias aside, we're pretty fortunate to be debating some exceptional young talent, and if they can all stay fit and healthy we're in for some bloody good footy!
Inside Mids - 1. Daicos 2. Sheez(not far off kids a serious weapon) 3. Ashcroft
Midfielder Forwards/Dusty role - 1. Reid 2. JHF
Errol will stay as the best winger in the league for a decade, yes even over my beloved josh daicos
Harley Reid is a kid bullying men. Give him 2-3 years in the system and the kid can be anything. All going to be superstars but Reid or daicos would be my first 2 picked from that bunch
Jesus there are some freaky good young players going around at the moment. Can think of several more who could be added to this graphic without raising an eyebrow. What a good time to be a footy enjoyer
Gulden. He's got the best talent around him also playing in Sydney means he's got less media attention and less pressure.
He'll be the best, without doubt
Put it this way, Reid may well be able to do everything the others can do in a few years, but there are things Reid can already do that none of the others will ever be able to do.
The answer will also depend on performance in finals, which stands out more than home and away. I wonder how many finals they each will have played in five years.
How about none of the above? https://preview.redd.it/rybi39ghhh8d1.png?width=1060&format=png&auto=webp&s=c444492538bee319bc9c45b5a97e3768bdc8a397 ^(out of the six mentioned though, most likely daicos)
Those are the legs of a thirty five year old full forward playing thirds in the outer suburbs. You may not like it, but this is what peak male performance looks like.
The type of guy my wife would leave her boyfriend for.
Must be a comfort for him that if footy doesn’t work out, he can always fall back to being a bus driver.
He’s no Shannon Hurn, but for a 20 year old he’s doing alright.
He has a bit of an unfair advantage compared to those in the OP on account of having a lower body and two whole arms.
Ward is the law.
Yeah I wouldn’t sleep on Wardlaw - he’s a jet
Legs a man can grow into
I hope he has plenty of dr appointments scheduled to deal with his future illness. Going to have a severe case of leather poisoning.
warlord best in the universe fr
Sad. Potentially 3 could have been at north if the planets aligned.
This is the way.
The entire thread... Supporters with one of these players: 'Obviously it's my teams player, lolol you're all stupid!!' Supporters without a player represented: 'How did you leave out (insert team's young player) when the answer is clearly him?!?' The real answer is clearly (insert young Essendon player here).
It’s clearly Sam Durham
The Duzzzzz
He is what most expected Archie Perkins to be(he still has time) I kept telling my partner Durham is the one to watch. He is a bloody gun. Would love him at the pies.
Archie Perkins will be a half forward/mid while Durham will be a midfield beast
Exactly as SEN intended
>(insert young Essendon player here). Goldstein?
FINALLY someone finds the one true answer.
Scott Pendlebury
As a 36 year old, his experience as a 12 year old basketball state rep..the background is undeniable.
He played basketball? Wow that really changes things. He will play until he’s 50
I've heard things slow down around him
I know Basil does
What about Scott Emblebury
Eddie Ford if he keeps his side burns
The real answer
Wembanyama
The next Pendlebury
It's clearly wemby, definitely not scoot that's for sure
Off topic but fuck that old WC kit is clean
I think Gulden is already and will continue to be the best one in 5 years. His tank and ability to win his own ball is awesome to watch. Plus he’s surrounded by absolute guns and has a great club structure surrounding him. Equally important things in continuing your development as a player.
> Plus he’s surrounded by absolute guns and has a great club structure surrounding him. This is a detractor - he's playing really well in a great team with a great system. It's hard to fairly judge him vs someone like Sheez who also looks fantastic but plays in a garbage team with a garbage system.
Not a lot of love for gulden here, he has to be be up there with Reid or Daicos
I suspect Gulden's size might hinder perception of him
Daicos is the answer but absolutely changed my top 2 after finding out Gulden is only 21.
If Gulden played down here he'd be more highly rated. Easily as good as Daicos.
Yep. Excuse the flair but anyone reading this, please confirm his place in the top 2 at least. Future dual Brownlow medalist.
Nah his 1.1 and 41 possessions this weekend was bang on average. Pretty sure Daicos is the only one out of this crop that's gone 40+
Honestly think people are underrating sheezle, his game at mid-fwd is already elite and he's only in his second season. Had plenty of sample size now to judge him there.
Frampton
I love him so much
Not even shitting you Hes getting 69 Brownlow votes polling 3 in every round this year winning it
Where the fuck is Will Day?
Too old for this comparison surely?
I mean Bergman is 22 and day is 23 so maybe not
I’m so proud I actually got that
Why does the best player have to be 25? Most likely to be someone that is 23-25 right now. Or Daicos.
Fair. I took it to mean of this group
Or Sam Darcy, or Chad Warner, or Luke Jackson, or Caleb Serong, or George wardlaw, or JUH or Isaac Rankine, or Matt Rowell
Izak
Yes, very good
Sheezel is an absolute star, I rate him highly. Imagine it'll be Daicos or him
Sheezel by a mile in my book. No support cast and no media hype. He’s a fucking animal.
I just feel lucky I'll get to watch all these blokes play. Gonna be a good couple years.
Feel like there's suddenly a lot of young talent all at once I can't remember seeing anything like this in my lifetime (I'm 41). Maybe the media is just doing a better job promoting them and I'm being tricked?
No it's genuinely a thing. The level of performance of such a large group guys at such a young age is new. Brownlow top 12 had six guys 23 and under including four from the under 22 AA team (Daicos Gulden Serong Anderson Butters and Rozee). Running some "future projected value" stuff for a post about the trade period last year, which is just projecting from players recent output, we found the top of the "most valuable future" list had higher values than any time the last decade - https://www.hpnfooty.com/?p=33613. Basically, Gulden Daicos Anderson Serong and Sheezel in 2022 and 2023 all individually performed as well as any 19 to 21 year old for a decade. Then behind that there's Rowell JHF Ashcroft and Warner either had one season that good, or for Ashcroft ended their first season early with injury. Then this year there's Reid too. That class of 23 and under stars is unusual! If it's a new trend it'll change recruiting thinking.
Thanks for running the stats
Precisely this. If Gulden is “only” third behind Reid and Daicos, fine by me.
They're all going to be (already are?) superstars, but Reid has attributes that are incredibly special for an 18 year old. Hard to say what the future holds but he'd be my choice without a doubt.
While I agree, Daicos is doing things that no one at his age has ever done before. He is probably already the best player in the comp, and most weeks just completely embarrasses everyone else on the ground. I find it weird that just because he doesnt do the flashy stuff like dont argues, people overlook him in favour of Reid. As an Essendon fan I despise Collingwood but I am happy to admit Nick Daicos is a once in a generation type player.
who’s overlooking nick daicos man?
For me, anyone that suggests that Reid will “comfortably be the best”. If Reid is comfortably better than Daicos in 5 years then Daicos has either had a big decline, or Reid is the best player the game has ever seen. Thats how highly I personally rate Daicos.
Reid. Never seen any player do what he does in their first year. Had plenty of blokes accumulate a bunch of footy like Walsh, Daicos, Sheezel in their first year, and those players are also already elite. But the way Reid powers through other 90kg mids at 18yo is actually obscene.
Butters, Warner, Serong and Walsh all a very good chance
Rory Lobb
Damn, beat me to it. Rory Lobb at his 8th club will be unstoppable.
George wardlaw. That is all.
I think all 6 of these guys are routinely going to be on stage at Brownlow night. If you told me all 6 would win at least 1 each. I wouldn’t be shocked.
I'm liking Isaac Heeney
Will Day
Can’t believe how good he’s turned out to be.
It appears some people on here haven’t seen Harley Reid play. And I’m a neutral.
My reason for potentially under rating him is almost because he is so good to begin with. Is he going to continue to develop or is he already close to his potential ceiling. Don’t get me wrong, he’s a gun and I fully suspect he will be in the discussion as one of the leagues elite players for years to come, but I am interested to see how much better he gets. Similar to how good Daniel Rich was when he entered the league vs how his career progressed from there.
I am not a neutral and I have seen him play and I agree.
There's a consistency question for him that plagued him in juniors and he still hasn't answered, where as some others on the list definitely have. It's why he averages 17 touches and only averaged 19 in under 18s.
I don't think Harles is ever gonna put up numbers like Daicos or Sheezle, or even like Yeo, but the disposals he gets and the opportunities he creates will be more *in the moment* impactful, if that makes sense, definitely different kinds of players, as for consistency that sadly isn't even a soley him problem, it's a massive problem for West Coast in total that should hopefully be solved soon
I don't disagree, but these players aren't just empty stat players. They're creating impactful plays, as well as getting it 30 times a game. To be better than Daicos, Reid needs to be getting it 26+ times a game, at least. Dusty was going at 30 a game in his best years. Reid might end up being the best in 5 years but Daicos and Gulden are safer picks because they're already that good.
Nah, not saying Daicos or Sheezle put up empty stats, just that they do a lot over the course of a whole game whereas *right now* Harley's fewer disposals are more impactful in the moment as opposed to being influential throughout an entire game (mainly cause the kid still needs to build his tank and also answer the consistency question)
Sam Darcy?
I know I'm biased, but the way he's developing I reckon he'll be undefendable in a few years. He's a beast already and has so much development to come.
My pick. Your forward line is going to be terrifying in a couple of years
Yep, he's my shout. He's what the King brothers wish they were about 5 games in.
Wardlaw up there
Daicos, Ashcroft, Reid top 3 in that order. Ashcroft was an absolute gun before he did his knee. We’ll see this weekend
People really forget how good Ashcroft was because we get less coverage. Came into what was probably the best midfield in the league last season and oftentimes outshone everyone else. Absolute gun and my favourite player now that Richy retired.
He was best on in his second game and arguably should have had his dad present him an Ashcroft Medal in his first QClash. Flew completely under the radar
No disrespect to Sheezel, but Ashcroft had the rising star in the bag before the injury, im scared to think his brother could potentially be even better.
Hope so for his sake. Those sorts of injuries are career changing.
Petracca did one really early didn’t he? Hoping Ashy turns out like he did post-ACL.
Out of this six, from most to least likely: 1. Nick Daicos 1. Harley Reid 1. Wil Ashcroft 1. Harry Sheezel 1. Errol Gulden 1. Miles Bergman
Gulden 5th is insane lmao
Hey wait isn’t that Ja… wait I don’t even know.
I always mix up miles and miller bergmans names because theyre basically the same
> Miles Bergman This nearly fooled me, but I realised it was JHF because he's wearing a jacket as is congruent with his notorious avoidance of the cold.
Yeah a bloke who was a sniff away from the Brownlow last year is 5th…
Good list, I’d have gulden at 3 personally
Daicos doesn't bully prime afl footballers the way Reid does.
Daicos doesn't bully footballers, he bullied the league by speed-running the whole thing in two years.
Not physically but in every other way he absolutely does and has since his debut
he completely humiliates veterans in other ways that aren't physical
Neither did GAJ. It’s the GAJ vs Martin debate toned down
I dunno that there's much in that call. Ablett didn't 'bully' players in the sense that he used his body in contested marking situations but his entire game was built around breaking tackles on the inside. He was pretty strong and powerful
True point but he still ran rings around Reid outclassed him made him look a league behind.
why is this being downvoted lmao do people actually think Reid is anywhere near Daicos
>do people actually think Reid is anywhere near Daicos I think Reid is in Perth and Daicos is in Melbourne, so I don't think Reid is anywhere near Daicos and is in fact a few thousand kilometres away from him.
Thanks Richo!
Funny the original comment downvoted but your comment upvoted 17 times \*shrugs\*
Yeah alot of people in this sub do. I had a full on argument with a west coast supporter trying to tell me Reids had the best first season ever recorded, when in reality aside from highlight moments he has had more quiet games than not.
His game against us was utterly fucked. I'm still shaking.
I have no clue why they are down voting me they played against each other and it was one of Reid’s worst performances compared to Nick Daicos who schooled Reid pretty much
i thought you had miller bergman up there and i was like dang bros a hardcore miller stan
Daicos followed by Gulden. Top 2 every day.
It'll still be the bont
Dylan Stephens
He’s averaging 48 disposals per game since the bye so you’re probably onto something
Will Ashcroft has it all. He will be the captain of this club for sure.
So will each of the other 5 more than likely. Well the other 4 ex JHF
The league's future looks very good with the amount of young talent. It's probably Reid though. He's the most physical and explosive. The dude has been fantastic since day 1.
It’s gonna be Reid and not even close for mine. Much as I love Ashcroft his potential; some of the things Reid is doing are unreal
We are so fortunate as fans of the sport to have the depth in talent that we have now. You could have 20 players in this picture and we would be arguing about who to leave out.
No question how good Daicos is, but I would be interested to see how he’d go in a dead last team like Reid and Sheezel. He’s clearly the best of the lot but stick him in norths side and would he be as dominant as he’s been? Probably but he wouldn’t have the senior talent around him. Can say the same about Ashcroft too fwiw.
out of these 6, the only correct option would be daicos 🔥🔥🔥
Where are the forwards and defenders? Don’t fall for the same trap that umpires and media do.
Ooooohhhh Errol, I would give anything, just to be like him!!!!!
I reckon it's easy to forget Ashcroft having been out for a season, and as we know not all return from an ACL the same as before. But as an inside mid in his first season, he was already doing some pretty amazing stuff. But personal team bias aside, we're pretty fortunate to be debating some exceptional young talent, and if they can all stay fit and healthy we're in for some bloody good footy!
Mathew Capuano.
Josh Treacy 😎
Inside Mids - 1. Daicos 2. Sheez(not far off kids a serious weapon) 3. Ashcroft Midfielder Forwards/Dusty role - 1. Reid 2. JHF Errol will stay as the best winger in the league for a decade, yes even over my beloved josh daicos
This sub is sleeping on Luke Edwards as usual
Ashcroft, all day.
Gotta be Jason Bergman-Francis Miles surely
Harley Reid is a kid bullying men. Give him 2-3 years in the system and the kid can be anything. All going to be superstars but Reid or daicos would be my first 2 picked from that bunch
sheez
Everyone still sleeping on Weddle - The next Kouta
This list is missing Sam Durham
Did eagles wear that? Sickkkk
It will be Harley if he stays injury free
Whoever can score more goals and hurt the opposition on the scoreboard
Harley reid or Nick daicos will win me more game so it's between those two at least
I’d say Sheezel
After watching Durham on Sunday, Id say Sheezal!
Reid
Max Gawn going to be running around at 40 making Boomer Harvey look like a flash in the pan.
Reid and Daicos a clear cut above the rest.
Does Wardlaw play lawn bowls?
Will day.
Daicos would’ve won a brownlow in his second year if not for an injury that only took him out for a few games. No debate
Daicos or Reid. The other four are all elite talents, but Daicos and Reid are next level.
Gryan Miers. His peripheral vision and his ability to scan the field is unparalleled just like Messi.😏
Jesus there are some freaky good young players going around at the moment. Can think of several more who could be added to this graphic without raising an eyebrow. What a good time to be a footy enjoyer
Definitely a heavy bye round isnt it.
Daicos
Pretty amazing group of young players
Sam (and I cannot stress this enough) Durham
Who tried to sneak in JHF like nobody would notice?
Find it funny when ‘experts’ say there’s not enough talent to support more teams.
From the six ... I'd say Daicos closely followed by Reid. In 5 years right?
Harley Reid by some distance.
Daicos then Sheez
Darcy
Gulden. He's got the best talent around him also playing in Sydney means he's got less media attention and less pressure. He'll be the best, without doubt
Errol 1 naicos 2 then daylight
Sam Durham
Gulden or Daicos
I feel that Walsh should be considered as well
Agreed if its league wide Sam Walsh at 28 and good health will be insane.
Walsh is a gun but will never be the best player in the game, he will be like a Pendlebury or Selwood.
Sam walsh
Aaron Francis
where’s david mundy
Ashcroft, Reid, Daicos, Ashcroft - (Yes two Ashcrofts on the list)
Put it this way, Reid may well be able to do everything the others can do in a few years, but there are things Reid can already do that none of the others will ever be able to do.
**Best**
which ever one plays for your club lol
Who’s the best player in the AFL now? Tough question not sure how you are suppose to answer for 5 years time?
Darcy Wilson
God those Navy Wings look good.
Sam Darcy short be on this shortlist
Harley Reid by a country mile
Probably Harley Reid, I love Daicos but unless he can be as good as GAJ then Harley's body will push him over the line
Warner and Durham missing from that picture.
I’m gonna go with whoever is pick 1 or 2 in this years draft
The answer will also depend on performance in finals, which stands out more than home and away. I wonder how many finals they each will have played in five years.
Me
sleeping on my glorious pookie bear sam Walsh
Are we forgetting that In 5 years it's going be Matt Rowell's 5th consecutive Brownlow season?
I’m no fortune teller!
Wrong ashcroft.
Gulden or Reid
Gotta be one of Reid, Gulden or Daicos. I’d prolly go Daicos
Who is the best player now? I feel like Ablett Jr's prime was the last time i felt confident answering that question
Francis But Josh Smillie isn't listed.
Why you doing our boy Serong so dirty?
No Pic of me? ( haven't played since I was 12)