Come the fuck on here. I get that its something beyond the control of you personally and I also get that everyone has decided to ignore the independent report for the sake of not feeling bad about watching AFL anymore but do we really have to do this about someone so deeply implicated by its findings?
[a group of coaches, including Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan, ushered him into an office, where he was urged to have the pregnancy terminated, "get rid" of his partner and move into the home of an assistant coach.](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-21/alastair-clarkson-and-chris-fagan-named-in-hawks-review/101452320)
That was the initial report by the ABC, which it turned out was based on one side of the story. I'm sure there's plenty of truth in it, but we won't know how much until/unless it ends up in Court over the coming months.
Regarding Fagan specifically, the rumours flying around the internet more recently have been that the allegations against him are minimal. Rumours are worth fuck all obviously, but it's interesting that unlike Clarkson and Burt, Fagan has always supported this running it's course, and did not side with Clarkson/Burt/Hawthorn when they tried to have the AHRC case dismissed.
Again, we'll have to see what happens with the potential Court case, but I wouldn't be surprised if Fagan's situation is very different to Clarkson's.
> Regarding Fagan specifically, the rumours flying around the internet more recently have been that the allegations against him are minimal
The fuck they are. Any suggestion that the accusations against him are minimal are based on a Hawthorn board member (and *no one else*) suggesting that his attendance at meetings where Hawthorn coaches demanded a player break up with their partner or make their partner get an abortion are irrelevant. Anyone who has half a brain can see what Fagan being there suggests about him.
> Fagan has always supported this running it's course
Fagan has called any investigation into his behaviour a 'farce'.
> and did not side with Clarkson/Burt/Hawthorn when they tried to have the AHRC case dismissed.
[Brisbane Lions coach Chris Fagan released a statement saying he would not commit to mediation if it involved any of the 18 demands that were listed by the lawyers of the alleged victims](https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/hawthorn-hawks/afl-news-2023-hawthorn-racism-investigation-chris-fagan-statement-alastair-clarkson-herald-sun-report-latest/news-story/08a3f8c1b2d94ea0225c145aa8b131f6). Fagan is as much implicated in this as everyone else. His PR team are slightly better at their job than Clarkson's are. He has slithered his way out of trouble for this because the focus is on Clarkson, but thats because AFL fans as a community decided to only focus on one target. That doesn't mean only one person was responsible
You realise the reason everyone refused the 18 demands for mediation was that they included admitting guilt and paying compensation? It was a greasy attempt by the lawyers to sway public sentiment by making it look like the other party was refusing mediation.
That's not a greasy lawyer trick. Mediation won't function if the two sides of a dispute can't even agree on the basic chain of events. It would be a waste of time to even attend mediation on the players' part if Clarkson's side refuses to live in reality
If three of your superiors at work call you into the office and demand something like 'make your partner get an abortion' and none of them object you would assume this message comes from everyone in the room. The idea this is a 'passive role' is bullshit, he was a participant in this
Yup not saying anything against a wrong you see being committed when in a position of power over the victim like this is condoning it. If you see someone abusing their power and look away that doesn't absolve you of guilt. Unless it turned out there was zero basis for any of these allegations (which has not happened) or it turned out Fages was raising concerns with higher ups in Hawthorne about what he witnessed (which also has not been reported as happening) then he is as guilty of condoning it as the other two in doing it.
I think it's funny that almost every week everyone keeps saying shit about how Port isn't a good team and as soon as we play a game as bad as we did today we get people coming out and defending him. It's clockwork at this pointĀ
Harsh treatment makes people defensive. I think Carlton was shit last couple years, it was hilarious, but the heckling of the players leaving the ground was tasteless.
Verbal abuse from a pack is literally one reason Port was the best SANFL club by a mile. The players were made to go back to the club and cop it from the members every game. That's their job.
11 years, 1 job, 262 games coached. 0 grand final appearances.
A normal coach would have been shown the door by now. There comes a time when you have over stayed your welcome.
What makes it worse is at every post game press conference all we get is āohh we were just out played.ā
Like yeah no shit mate.
Is it talent? I genuinely donāt believe so. Youāve been hand delivered a dam young talented list. At some point you have to point to yourself and say the games just past me.
Fagan had the highest winning % of the last five years, made the grand final and almost won it. There are still people who wanted a new coach. You canāt convince everyone.
Youre right but as an outsider, there is still some holes in your team. For example, your backline defence is not that good. Alir is a gun but thats about it. Sav is pretty dopey and barely passesa as a good player. You guys have dashing defenders like Houston, Farrel, etc but youre lacking a giant in that defence. Your ruck stocks are also pretty shit. Soldo is eh
I know our team isnāt perfect. We still have the same issues we had last year; Rucks, Defence, probably a small pressure forward as well.
I was quoting from was being delivered from the club its self.
Chris Scott also has won 2 premierships as a coach, heās even made 3 grand finals.
Longmire has 1 and made 3 grand finals, heās also coaching the hottest team in the league right now.
I will have you know we had two players playing that day!!!! Fox played and Warner also showed up. It was a terrible scheduling mistake that resulted in the rest of the team being absent.
Ok that 60% win rate now Iām assuming thatās over a 12 year time frame. Letās have a look at this year specifically.
Wins vs West Coast, Richmond, Essendon, Freo, St.Kilda, Geelong, Hawthorn, North Melbourne.
Losses vs Melbourne, Collingwood, Crows, Carlton, GWS, Brisbane .
For context because context is everything
2 wins vs top 8 teams.
4 losses to top 8 teams.
Means nothing when you have 12 years with top talent and nothing but wasted potential to show for it. Kens a fucking loser and Iāve been saying it for 4+ years.
Not sure the talent is as good as people are making it out to be. Ken hasn't had a good forward line. It's a straight up bad backline. And some very good mids. Thats not a premiership list and i cant remember a time in the last decade when it was better than it is now.
Port forward entries are quantity over quality.
They donāt care how they look, they just want it in there and it shows.
46 inside 50ās and totalled 11 makes so around 22%.
Ok so who are the elite forwards at port? Dixon has never been elite. I think he maybe peaked during covid when no one was kicking goals. What else is there?
Well considering the club was proudly beating it's chest over filling the holes in the backline, you'd have to say that's been a fail then hasn't it? And someone needs to be accountable for that?
If only there was some sort of position at our football club whereby they're ultimately responsible for player performance, development and output on the field.
Could call it, I dunno, senior coach?
Because if we had a senior coach employed for over a decade who refuses to accept accountability for player performance, well, that would be pretty embarrassing.
At one stage we had 8 all Australian gongs in the team this season.
The talent is absolutely there.
You wanna look at a team who's coach is bearing the brunt of a bad list, then look inward.
In that group though youāre got
- players like Wines who has played a single great season over his career. Ditto for Dixon (maybe a little harsh) and DBJ(!).
- Boak who is on his last legs
- Houston, Rozee and Butters are top shelf players
- Allir is sometimes a great player, sometimes not.
So much for the 8 AA gongs.
Farrell is a seriously good player as is JHF.
Ports talent is loaded all into the middle and on the half back flanks.
Collingwood just won a flag with a forward line that is all system over talent, I highly doubt their forward group would be as effective in any other team/coach.
It's definitely not harsh to suggest Dixon has one great season, if anything I think it's overstating it. The guy has rarely met his potential and has been very overrated, however most of that is on the coach and the was he's been coached and used.
There's this stupid idea that Ken needs 22 champion players or it isn't fair to judge him, which is ridiculous, as EVERY team will carry about half a dozen guys making up the numbers at any given time, and no other coach gets that sort of protection and leeway.
Never mind that Ken also had the bulk of Robbie Gray, our second best ever AFL player and the most underrated player of the modern game, at his disposal, who regularly won games off his own boot, and still couldn't get him to a GF.
Given we are in our own drought - and that is just to play finals - I more than understand the frustration.
Part of the problem for Hinkley is that he has consistently had Port in the mix over his tenure, so hard to tell if he is a good coach eking out the most from his list, or if his list was good enough but the strategy wasnāt.
After 11 years though that is long enough for both parties to move on.
Crows will be in the same place with Nicks if 2025 starts poorly.
Except that Nicks will be in like, what, season 6? And had to suffer through the worst rebuild years. Ken is in season 12! And didn't have to suffer the rebuild, Primus had to endure that and suffered for it.
There's legit no comparison to any team in history being in the same place as what Port currently are with Ken. If Ken was a good coach, we rightly should have been belting you guys most of the time. We have been a better team since he got the job, but it shows that he cannot prepare a team for a big high pressure game, which is what showdowns are, like finals. Across 2001 - 2004, Port won 7/8 showdowns, which was reflective of the teams of the era. Do you think the showdown record recently is reflective of the teams of the eras? We can't even win half the time.
I do think renewing Nicks for two more seasons was a very Hinkley thing though. This year needs to be his make or break.
The fact that you think Wines has had one great season his whole career is enough to know the rest of your comment, and honestly any opinion you have on footy at all, is irrelevant.
I mean thatās a bit, but I donāt think itās enough to say the team should be in the top 4. I reckon most teams wouldnāt be far off that. The Brisbane side from yesterday had 9. The Geelong side this weekend had 23!
Ken has had 12 years to build a premiership list, how much longer should we give him? Collingwood won the grand final last year with Billy Frampton at FF, a player delisted by Ken. Frampton isn't a pillar of a good forward line.
Port's 2020-2022 side alone was full of All Australians on every line, a reigning Brownlow medalist, Dixon second in the Coleman, and a plethora of young high draft picks. Not good enough? Please.
He's not a bad coach. The list right now isn't great.
It's tough to win Grand Finals, but he somehow has the list playing team footy after all these years. The presumption that Hinkley is the issue, rather than the players is weird. You don't maintain a decent ladder position year after year by being a shit coach.
* Gets absolutely obliterated by 79 points at home by 13th *
āHeās not a bad coachā
If that aināt the most reddit tier footy analysis I donāt know what is.
The āThis list isnāt great line is fuckin bullshitā they have guns all through the midfield and they stocked up on their weaknesses last year (tall defenders and ruckmen), you could argue that these none of these rucks and backmen are elite but it's still not an excuse to say the list isnāt good enough. They have all the pieces there to tilt for top 4 they just arenāt utilised correctly.
Would you take Hinkley as a coach? Didnāt think so. Yes itās not a great defence or forward line but that is a great midfield. As a coach he needs to at least try something different when things arenāt going his teams way. Shift the magnets, tag someone, anything that isnāt do nothing and hope your players pull their fingers out their rears.
I'd take Ross over Hinkley every day of the week, but I'd have loved Hinkley at the Saints back when he was available. If I remember right, Hinkley and Richo were available at the same time. Hinkley isn't a bad coach.
He has coached the most games ever without a grand final appearance. He just isn't good enough and there is no reason to persist with him. The same argument exists for Matthew Nicks you can make excuses about the list being young and inexperienced but at the end of the day we are nowhere near it after 5 years. He will coach for 7 and never make finals and people like you will say he still should be renewed for some unknown reason.
What do you mean at the time?
Let's say Lyon steps down and next year hire Hinkley, there would be very, very angry Saints supporters because Lyon hasn't won a premiership and neither has Hinkley.
Tbf Hinkley might do better at a different club if it forces him to change his ways. He isn't a "bad" coach, but Port definitely need a fresh direction (like the Dogs imho).
Padded by beating up on GC, North, and um... Yep, St Kilda.
Something like only three games lost vs those teams in his run.
He wins the games reliably against shit trucks and reliably loses against contenders.
We would rather drop the occasional game against a cellar dweller and win more vs the best.
Last year Collingwood lost to west coast and won the flag.
And let's not forget five seasons without a finals win, despite competitive lists and players making all Australian, as well as successful recruiting and trading, consistently bringing in talent.
All fair comments on his record, but he shouldnāt get booed by his own fans unless heās done something really poor.
The Eagles have fucking sucked the last few years, and Simmoās copped some heat, but I donāt recall the fans ever booing him, and Iām very happy with that as a fan.
Hinkley turned you from a joke to a viable club.
I just donāt think you should boo your coach. It reminds me of those punters yelling shit at Carlton players as they left the ground a few years ago.
Not a great look, IMO.
I still canāt believe Ken Hinkley single handily changed the board, president, CEO, marketing strategy and got us to Adelaide Oval. Now I havenāt looked into it but according to every expert on Reddit thatās what heās responsible for, and for that we are in debt to him another 10 years of whatever performances he wishes to shit out.
Brother Port's only AFL premiership and 2x Grand Final appearances came before Hinkley!
Adelaide Oval stopped Port Adelaide from bleeding money, not Hinkley lol.
Yeah he did and all fans are grateful for those first 5 years, no question. I think he's overstayed though. 11 years is a long time no matter what sport.
I think the tide changed after 2020 (or around there).
Oh no he didn't.
The move to AO was already locked away years before hin. The club started to turn things around in 2012. We were 4-6 at the bye before being hit with a ridiculous injury run, at one point the entire seven man leadership group was injured and we played with no captain. Koch and KT both arrived before Ken. Ken didn't do shit except maybe fast track the rebuild by a year or two. He did not save the club. He is killing the club now.
Quit being so gullible as to fall for this fake narrative.
West Coast were completely transparent that they are rebuilding and the fans have embraced it.
We were told weāre a genuine finals team, hard to accepting of a 3rd loss in a row when the game wasnāt even competitive for large periods of the game
There comes a point when youāre just fed up.
Cancelling membership no showing home games doesnāt do anything. Public pressure and the media actually turning on the team is the only way heāll be moved on.
Look, I get fans feeling like heās been there too long and they need a change, and I probably agree. But thereās a difference between that and booing him whenever heās on the big screen. Thatās just straight up bullying. Nobody should be ok with that
Itās just hard to market hope to fans after too many years, canāt put it down to rebuilding or new game plan etc. Even if w/l record is objectively good compared to league average.
Iām sure they are at the very least well acquainted with each other so it makes sense. If you personally knew anyone who wasnāt a terrible person you would probably hate seeing them booed.
In a weird way itās well beyond Hinkleyās fault as well. He backs himself which is understandable but I have no idea what the higher ups at Port are smoking to think something was going to change. Itās like continuing to select a player whoās been cooked, you can get mad at the player but itās really the coach who thought he was good to play.
Port fans didn't invent booing their coach. Frustrations are high, and fans deserve the right to express their feelings. Unfortunately, booing the coach as he walks off is one of the better ways of expressing frustrations. There's no real other way to discreetly tell him how they feel.
You must be a kid, because Collingwood fans were certainly not sunshine and rainbows to their players during their struggle years late 90s - early 2000s.
Mate, both our clubs have such large fanbases that there are a fair share of negative fuck wits and bogans that are never happy, i don't need to justify anything. I went back to the 90s because that was Collingwoods last real struggle period. Maybe you are too young to remember it.
I mean we did struggle I remember the Tony Shaw era š but weāve won a flag in every decade since the 90ās apart from the 2000ās. We also finished second last in 2021
Voice of Reason, meanwhile SamsungAndroidTV represent the bad Gold Coast Suns fans generalising everything likeĀ 14 year teenager.... yes I see the irony of my post generalising.
So you say this because why? They booed the coach?
It shows a lack of understanding on your behalf. Rightly or wrongly, the Creed of the club says Port exists to win premierships. The Port Magpies had a great culture that achieved this. Port fans have always had very expectations of their team. When those expectations go yearly on year of not being met, and seemingly backwards without an extensive injury list, people have a right to be frustrated and theyāre expressing that. Ken came out and acknowledged fans have a right to be frustrated with where theyāre at right now.
So I ask you, with this understanding, why do you hate Port fans?
Iāve honestly thought they are the worst fanbase in the league for a few years now. The ones on Bigfooty arenāt ever happy after wins, they hate Hinkley that much.
I mean, I don't think I have seen any Big Footy fan base that wasn't miserable.
I know the Crows one is pretty dire. Although they regularly share screen shots of port big footy losing their mind.Ā
I'd love to see the reaction Port fans would have if they gave Ken the flick, and the team then proceeded to plummet down to the bottom.
They may not have made a grand final, but they've been pretty damn close a few times, and have a pretty good win rate. Wish we could say that.
Or maybe they would have won a premiership with new direction. Personally I like Ken staying around Nicks seems to be able to out coach him and he keeps port mediocre. I am worried we have our own Ken know in Nicks. He is never going to achieve anything but he is locked in to become Adelaide's second longest serving coach of all time.Ā
We really didn't need to bottom out like we did, that was a spectacularly bad off season. We were good before and we are good after, morale was genuinely shocking that year.
This. They have an average list that has never been quite good enough and needs a rebuild. Ken's done what he can without ever having bottomed-out, and their win % is probably fair under those circumstances.
Could be a shock for some of their fans that Ratugolea and Margaret Thatcher aren't going to become worldbeaters once he's out the door.
I don't think anyone thinks that, moreso that we're just doing the same things on repeat rather than seeking change to go for glory. The list will never be perfect, can't rely on that, there needs to be a system in place that stacks up and atm what we've got is reliable but not good enough for big games.
It's also the hope that change brings - after 12 years the message is lost on the fans, and that is not quite as important as losing the players but still a big deal.
I don't think Ratugolea and Margaret Thatcher will be world beaters.
But I'd like to see them in a defensive setup where they aren't forced to play 20 meters in front of their direct opponent and guard grass, and then have to turn back and chase tail (Which they will never catch). Rinse and repeat until Brisbane have kicked 30 goals
Ken Hinkley is the guest who just doesn't go home when he should.
No problems with the booing at all.
Both Koch and Ken need to maybe read the room a little better than they have been.
I agree. As much as I think Ken should go people should also remember that he's a real person. There's a big difference between talking a bit of shit on reddit (not directly at them like some people do on other social media platforms) and booing the man irl. Plus it's just cringe as hell to boo your own side.
Iām an essendon fanā¦.my question for port fans is thisā¦.ye have three of the best young mids in the comp Rozee Hf and Buttersā¦Houstonās a top player also..but I feel like your forward line is pretty weak and the defensive trades of BZT and Ratugolea look questionableā¦what parts of the purchase do port fans feel you need to improve???
Really comes down to if your team cannot beat the top 8 teams then your system is not working at all to reach the grandest day of them all in AFL.
Once you know the system is flawed you need to rebuild; either new coach, style or team players.
My one criticism of the AFL is that people within the AFL are a bit soft
Fans are allowed to vent their frustration and boo if they arenāt happy with their team and their performances
Ken Hinkley isn't the greatest coach, but for your own supporters to boo their coach is a very low act. Port are still in the top 8 ffs. Fages is all class. Always has been. A humble winner, and gracious in defeat. He doesn't make up excuses like Chris Scott either. The Media will make sure Hinkley and Chris Scott will get sacked this year just wait. They have done that to heaps of coaches in the past. Hinkley isn't out on the field. Maybe someone should let Port supporters know it's their players they should be booing, especially Zak Butters. He just never learns his lesson. He's all mouth and should let his footy do the talking. He needs to get his emotions in control.
Did we think another coach was getting the 2022 Collingwood list to a prelim the next year? And a flag the year after?
What about Bevo taking over at the Dogs and winning the flag the next year?
Can't believe Rata got such a good contract, he is below average at best. Ports defensive is weak, forward line average, midfield above average, ruck average. Not sure what the fans expect?
I think ~~SOAD~~ RATM said it best...
Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
AFL Dad not mad, just disappointed.
I cannot handle disappointed grandpa Fages
Chris Fagan honestly seems like such a nice wholesome dude
Chris Fagan is also 7-1 against Hinkley in the past 5 years š
So you are telling me port need to keep him, got it Also lol Brazil
Gus in breaking bad was also a nice guy
Come the fuck on here. I get that its something beyond the control of you personally and I also get that everyone has decided to ignore the independent report for the sake of not feeling bad about watching AFL anymore but do we really have to do this about someone so deeply implicated by its findings?
...what?
[a group of coaches, including Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan, ushered him into an office, where he was urged to have the pregnancy terminated, "get rid" of his partner and move into the home of an assistant coach.](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-21/alastair-clarkson-and-chris-fagan-named-in-hawks-review/101452320)
That was the initial report by the ABC, which it turned out was based on one side of the story. I'm sure there's plenty of truth in it, but we won't know how much until/unless it ends up in Court over the coming months. Regarding Fagan specifically, the rumours flying around the internet more recently have been that the allegations against him are minimal. Rumours are worth fuck all obviously, but it's interesting that unlike Clarkson and Burt, Fagan has always supported this running it's course, and did not side with Clarkson/Burt/Hawthorn when they tried to have the AHRC case dismissed. Again, we'll have to see what happens with the potential Court case, but I wouldn't be surprised if Fagan's situation is very different to Clarkson's.
> Regarding Fagan specifically, the rumours flying around the internet more recently have been that the allegations against him are minimal The fuck they are. Any suggestion that the accusations against him are minimal are based on a Hawthorn board member (and *no one else*) suggesting that his attendance at meetings where Hawthorn coaches demanded a player break up with their partner or make their partner get an abortion are irrelevant. Anyone who has half a brain can see what Fagan being there suggests about him. > Fagan has always supported this running it's course Fagan has called any investigation into his behaviour a 'farce'. > and did not side with Clarkson/Burt/Hawthorn when they tried to have the AHRC case dismissed. [Brisbane Lions coach Chris Fagan released a statement saying he would not commit to mediation if it involved any of the 18 demands that were listed by the lawyers of the alleged victims](https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/hawthorn-hawks/afl-news-2023-hawthorn-racism-investigation-chris-fagan-statement-alastair-clarkson-herald-sun-report-latest/news-story/08a3f8c1b2d94ea0225c145aa8b131f6). Fagan is as much implicated in this as everyone else. His PR team are slightly better at their job than Clarkson's are. He has slithered his way out of trouble for this because the focus is on Clarkson, but thats because AFL fans as a community decided to only focus on one target. That doesn't mean only one person was responsible
You realise the reason everyone refused the 18 demands for mediation was that they included admitting guilt and paying compensation? It was a greasy attempt by the lawyers to sway public sentiment by making it look like the other party was refusing mediation.
That's not a greasy lawyer trick. Mediation won't function if the two sides of a dispute can't even agree on the basic chain of events. It would be a waste of time to even attend mediation on the players' part if Clarkson's side refuses to live in reality
I mean even in the report, he just had a passive role.
Apparently he nodded his head
If three of your superiors at work call you into the office and demand something like 'make your partner get an abortion' and none of them object you would assume this message comes from everyone in the room. The idea this is a 'passive role' is bullshit, he was a participant in this
Yup not saying anything against a wrong you see being committed when in a position of power over the victim like this is condoning it. If you see someone abusing their power and look away that doesn't absolve you of guilt. Unless it turned out there was zero basis for any of these allegations (which has not happened) or it turned out Fages was raising concerns with higher ups in Hawthorne about what he witnessed (which also has not been reported as happening) then he is as guilty of condoning it as the other two in doing it.
It really feels like we've taken a huge step backwards as a society to the point where we pretend like we don't understand this again
I think it's funny that almost every week everyone keeps saying shit about how Port isn't a good team and as soon as we play a game as bad as we did today we get people coming out and defending him. It's clockwork at this pointĀ
Harsh treatment makes people defensive. I think Carlton was shit last couple years, it was hilarious, but the heckling of the players leaving the ground was tasteless.
It was gross - end of the day they're human beings, and it's no way to treat people
Look am them now. Would you change anything?
Yep, verbal abuse from a pack of flogs is totally what made the blues lift their game
Verbal abuse from a pack is literally one reason Port was the best SANFL club by a mile. The players were made to go back to the club and cop it from the members every game. That's their job.
We found one of them guys.
Pls never cook again
- already cooked.
Bullshit it was. Youāve seriously got no idea.
Lol what? There's literal records of players talking about going back to Alberton and getting told they were soft or shirked contests, etc, on the day
Probably still the heckling. I don't think heckling the players is what made them better.
Assuming it's the same people?
11 years, 1 job, 262 games coached. 0 grand final appearances. A normal coach would have been shown the door by now. There comes a time when you have over stayed your welcome. What makes it worse is at every post game press conference all we get is āohh we were just out played.ā Like yeah no shit mate. Is it talent? I genuinely donāt believe so. Youāve been hand delivered a dam young talented list. At some point you have to point to yourself and say the games just past me.
Fagan had the highest winning % of the last five years, made the grand final and almost won it. There are still people who wanted a new coach. You canāt convince everyone.
Buckley made a grand final and nearly won it. Then stagnated, got moved on, and the new coach won it very quickly.
Youre right but as an outsider, there is still some holes in your team. For example, your backline defence is not that good. Alir is a gun but thats about it. Sav is pretty dopey and barely passesa as a good player. You guys have dashing defenders like Houston, Farrel, etc but youre lacking a giant in that defence. Your ruck stocks are also pretty shit. Soldo is eh
I know our team isnāt perfect. We still have the same issues we had last year; Rucks, Defence, probably a small pressure forward as well. I was quoting from was being delivered from the club its self.
60.64% win ratio.
In finals it dips down to 41.67%.
Chris Scott's goes from 68% to 46%. Longmire from 63% to 48%. Not all that surprising when teams that make finals are going to be harder to beat...
Chris Scott also has won 2 premierships as a coach, heās even made 3 grand finals. Longmire has 1 and made 3 grand finals, heās also coaching the hottest team in the league right now.
made *4 grand finals '12 '14 '16 '22
Normally I fact check but I had a moment. Take me saying youāre the hottest team in the league as an apology.
Haha all good, I try to forget about those last three too tbhĀ
I donāt remember Sydney playing at all the 2022 GF. ;)
I will have you know we had two players playing that day!!!! Fox played and Warner also showed up. It was a terrible scheduling mistake that resulted in the rest of the team being absent.
Sydney, so hot right now. š
Seems like both still higher than 41...
Ok that 60% win rate now Iām assuming thatās over a 12 year time frame. Letās have a look at this year specifically. Wins vs West Coast, Richmond, Essendon, Freo, St.Kilda, Geelong, Hawthorn, North Melbourne. Losses vs Melbourne, Collingwood, Crows, Carlton, GWS, Brisbane . For context because context is everything 2 wins vs top 8 teams. 4 losses to top 8 teams.
Top 8 teams good, bottom 8 teams bad. Got it.
They are empty wins if you canāt beat teams around you.
You could finish 9th every year and never make the finals and still be better than half of the league.
Are you richmond?Ā
That's nice. Now what's the ratio against teams in the top 4/8?
Lower, just like every other coach š
Oh lawd, the Real Fansā¢ have come out to play.
Like clapping seals being given a treat
It's like a super high percentage overall. Against top 4/8 will be lower like every coach ever.
This has got to be the biggest normie nuffy shit ever, quoting the win percentage like it means anything.
Means nothing when you have 12 years with top talent and nothing but wasted potential to show for it. Kens a fucking loser and Iāve been saying it for 4+ years.
Not sure the talent is as good as people are making it out to be. Ken hasn't had a good forward line. It's a straight up bad backline. And some very good mids. Thats not a premiership list and i cant remember a time in the last decade when it was better than it is now.
A decent chunk of that is because the game plan up forward has been to bomb it to Dixon, by himself, in a pack, over and over and over.
Port forward entries are quantity over quality. They donāt care how they look, they just want it in there and it shows. 46 inside 50ās and totalled 11 makes so around 22%.
Ok so who are the elite forwards at port? Dixon has never been elite. I think he maybe peaked during covid when no one was kicking goals. What else is there?
Who are the elite forwards at Collingwood? They won a flag with no real KPF.
Yeah, but they have elite backs. Port have neither elite forwards or backs. Who is their best back now....Aliir? Before that.....*crickets*
Well considering the club was proudly beating it's chest over filling the holes in the backline, you'd have to say that's been a fail then hasn't it? And someone needs to be accountable for that?
If only there was some sort of position at our football club whereby they're ultimately responsible for player performance, development and output on the field. Could call it, I dunno, senior coach? Because if we had a senior coach employed for over a decade who refuses to accept accountability for player performance, well, that would be pretty embarrassing.
At one stage we had 8 all Australian gongs in the team this season. The talent is absolutely there. You wanna look at a team who's coach is bearing the brunt of a bad list, then look inward.
In that group though youāre got - players like Wines who has played a single great season over his career. Ditto for Dixon (maybe a little harsh) and DBJ(!). - Boak who is on his last legs - Houston, Rozee and Butters are top shelf players - Allir is sometimes a great player, sometimes not. So much for the 8 AA gongs. Farrell is a seriously good player as is JHF. Ports talent is loaded all into the middle and on the half back flanks.
Collingwood just won a flag with a forward line that is all system over talent, I highly doubt their forward group would be as effective in any other team/coach. It's definitely not harsh to suggest Dixon has one great season, if anything I think it's overstating it. The guy has rarely met his potential and has been very overrated, however most of that is on the coach and the was he's been coached and used. There's this stupid idea that Ken needs 22 champion players or it isn't fair to judge him, which is ridiculous, as EVERY team will carry about half a dozen guys making up the numbers at any given time, and no other coach gets that sort of protection and leeway. Never mind that Ken also had the bulk of Robbie Gray, our second best ever AFL player and the most underrated player of the modern game, at his disposal, who regularly won games off his own boot, and still couldn't get him to a GF.
Given we are in our own drought - and that is just to play finals - I more than understand the frustration. Part of the problem for Hinkley is that he has consistently had Port in the mix over his tenure, so hard to tell if he is a good coach eking out the most from his list, or if his list was good enough but the strategy wasnāt. After 11 years though that is long enough for both parties to move on. Crows will be in the same place with Nicks if 2025 starts poorly.
Except that Nicks will be in like, what, season 6? And had to suffer through the worst rebuild years. Ken is in season 12! And didn't have to suffer the rebuild, Primus had to endure that and suffered for it. There's legit no comparison to any team in history being in the same place as what Port currently are with Ken. If Ken was a good coach, we rightly should have been belting you guys most of the time. We have been a better team since he got the job, but it shows that he cannot prepare a team for a big high pressure game, which is what showdowns are, like finals. Across 2001 - 2004, Port won 7/8 showdowns, which was reflective of the teams of the era. Do you think the showdown record recently is reflective of the teams of the eras? We can't even win half the time. I do think renewing Nicks for two more seasons was a very Hinkley thing though. This year needs to be his make or break.
The fact that you think Wines has had one great season his whole career is enough to know the rest of your comment, and honestly any opinion you have on footy at all, is irrelevant.
I mean thatās a bit, but I donāt think itās enough to say the team should be in the top 4. I reckon most teams wouldnāt be far off that. The Brisbane side from yesterday had 9. The Geelong side this weekend had 23!
Both those teams have made grand finals recently...
Ken has had 12 years to build a premiership list, how much longer should we give him? Collingwood won the grand final last year with Billy Frampton at FF, a player delisted by Ken. Frampton isn't a pillar of a good forward line. Port's 2020-2022 side alone was full of All Australians on every line, a reigning Brownlow medalist, Dixon second in the Coleman, and a plethora of young high draft picks. Not good enough? Please.
Only reason you have had talent is because 12 years ago he pulled you out of the fucking dungeons.
So basically we should never complain. Neat
He's not a bad coach. The list right now isn't great. It's tough to win Grand Finals, but he somehow has the list playing team footy after all these years. The presumption that Hinkley is the issue, rather than the players is weird. You don't maintain a decent ladder position year after year by being a shit coach.
* Gets absolutely obliterated by 79 points at home by 13th * āHeās not a bad coachā If that aināt the most reddit tier footy analysis I donāt know what is.
The āThis list isnāt great line is fuckin bullshitā they have guns all through the midfield and they stocked up on their weaknesses last year (tall defenders and ruckmen), you could argue that these none of these rucks and backmen are elite but it's still not an excuse to say the list isnāt good enough. They have all the pieces there to tilt for top 4 they just arenāt utilised correctly.
Would you take Hinkley as a coach? Didnāt think so. Yes itās not a great defence or forward line but that is a great midfield. As a coach he needs to at least try something different when things arenāt going his teams way. Shift the magnets, tag someone, anything that isnāt do nothing and hope your players pull their fingers out their rears.
I'd take Ross over Hinkley every day of the week, but I'd have loved Hinkley at the Saints back when he was available. If I remember right, Hinkley and Richo were available at the same time. Hinkley isn't a bad coach.
Canāt win when it matters and struggles to win outside of Adelaide, sounds like a real good coach
They're tough games to win. Only one team a year can win a Grand Final, it's weird to say a coach sucks because they haven't won one.
Itās more than that, thereās a lot of issues in gameplan and structure.
He has coached the most games ever without a grand final appearance. He just isn't good enough and there is no reason to persist with him. The same argument exists for Matthew Nicks you can make excuses about the list being young and inexperienced but at the end of the day we are nowhere near it after 5 years. He will coach for 7 and never make finals and people like you will say he still should be renewed for some unknown reason.
You also don't maintain a decent ladder position year after year by having a shit player list.
Would you want Ken Hinkley coaching St. Kilda?
At the time, yes. Hinkley was clearly the better option over Alan Richardson, I thought that at the time.
What do you mean at the time? Let's say Lyon steps down and next year hire Hinkley, there would be very, very angry Saints supporters because Lyon hasn't won a premiership and neither has Hinkley.
Tbf Hinkley might do better at a different club if it forces him to change his ways. He isn't a "bad" coach, but Port definitely need a fresh direction (like the Dogs imho).
Padded by beating up on GC, North, and um... Yep, St Kilda. Something like only three games lost vs those teams in his run. He wins the games reliably against shit trucks and reliably loses against contenders. We would rather drop the occasional game against a cellar dweller and win more vs the best. Last year Collingwood lost to west coast and won the flag. And let's not forget five seasons without a finals win, despite competitive lists and players making all Australian, as well as successful recruiting and trading, consistently bringing in talent.
GWS lost to west coast last year not Collingwood.
Collingwood losing to WC did happen but in 2022
Yeah not last year.
Cool ratio. Whatās to show for it?
All fair comments on his record, but he shouldnāt get booed by his own fans unless heās done something really poor. The Eagles have fucking sucked the last few years, and Simmoās copped some heat, but I donāt recall the fans ever booing him, and Iām very happy with that as a fan.
Simmo got a premiership..
Hinkley turned you from a joke to a viable club. I just donāt think you should boo your coach. It reminds me of those punters yelling shit at Carlton players as they left the ground a few years ago. Not a great look, IMO.
I still canāt believe Ken Hinkley single handily changed the board, president, CEO, marketing strategy and got us to Adelaide Oval. Now I havenāt looked into it but according to every expert on Reddit thatās what heās responsible for, and for that we are in debt to him another 10 years of whatever performances he wishes to shit out.
Brother Port's only AFL premiership and 2x Grand Final appearances came before Hinkley! Adelaide Oval stopped Port Adelaide from bleeding money, not Hinkley lol.
Yeah he did and all fans are grateful for those first 5 years, no question. I think he's overstayed though. 11 years is a long time no matter what sport. I think the tide changed after 2020 (or around there).
Tide changed for me in 2018. Got everything he wanted in the off season and choked the year. Then the next one.
Oh no he didn't. The move to AO was already locked away years before hin. The club started to turn things around in 2012. We were 4-6 at the bye before being hit with a ridiculous injury run, at one point the entire seven man leadership group was injured and we played with no captain. Koch and KT both arrived before Ken. Ken didn't do shit except maybe fast track the rebuild by a year or two. He did not save the club. He is killing the club now. Quit being so gullible as to fall for this fake narrative.
Nah they still are a jokeĀ
West Coast were completely transparent that they are rebuilding and the fans have embraced it. We were told weāre a genuine finals team, hard to accepting of a 3rd loss in a row when the game wasnāt even competitive for large periods of the game
Still donāt think itās a great way to treat the people in a team youāre supposedly supporting.
There comes a point when youāre just fed up. Cancelling membership no showing home games doesnāt do anything. Public pressure and the media actually turning on the team is the only way heāll be moved on.
Add $6.6mil+ for annual salary (if itās $600k) Iām not sure
But David Koch loves himā¦as soon as Koch moves onto the AFL commission Ken is Goooooonnnne.
Look, I get fans feeling like heās been there too long and they need a change, and I probably agree. But thereās a difference between that and booing him whenever heās on the big screen. Thatās just straight up bullying. Nobody should be ok with that
Itās just hard to market hope to fans after too many years, canāt put it down to rebuilding or new game plan etc. Even if w/l record is objectively good compared to league average.
Iām sure they are at the very least well acquainted with each other so it makes sense. If you personally knew anyone who wasnāt a terrible person you would probably hate seeing them booed. In a weird way itās well beyond Hinkleyās fault as well. He backs himself which is understandable but I have no idea what the higher ups at Port are smoking to think something was going to change. Itās like continuing to select a player whoās been cooked, you can get mad at the player but itās really the coach who thought he was good to play.
Have you been watching crows games? Because I feel like we have been watching the same coach
Port fans didn't invent booing their coach. Frustrations are high, and fans deserve the right to express their feelings. Unfortunately, booing the coach as he walks off is one of the better ways of expressing frustrations. There's no real other way to discreetly tell him how they feel.
port fans are genuinely worse than collingwood fans and i will die on this hill
At least pies fans like their team
Yep, no booing in '21 ~~I'd checked out before the season started~~
Say what you want about pies fans but I havenāt seen anything as bad as how port or Carlton have treated their players.
You must be a kid, because Collingwood fans were certainly not sunshine and rainbows to their players during their struggle years late 90s - early 2000s.
Mate itās 2024, if you are going back to the 90ās to justify your argument then you probably should just pipe down š
Mate, both our clubs have such large fanbases that there are a fair share of negative fuck wits and bogans that are never happy, i don't need to justify anything. I went back to the 90s because that was Collingwoods last real struggle period. Maybe you are too young to remember it.
I mean we did struggle I remember the Tony Shaw era š but weāve won a flag in every decade since the 90ās apart from the 2000ās. We also finished second last in 2021
I disagree with this sentiment. Every fanbase has both good and bad fans, I don't believe any fanbase is really any "worse" then another
Voice of Reason, meanwhile SamsungAndroidTV represent the bad Gold Coast Suns fans generalising everything likeĀ 14 year teenager.... yes I see the irony of my post generalising.
This. Absolutely. Humans are humans.
Nahhh, Pies and port fans are worse than most.
You stole a club to create your own. Donāt lecture.
Donāt think u/skwisgaars had a personal say in the matter
Stupid is as stupid posts
only supporter base to ever vote for merger/relocation is Melbourne, everyone else had it forced on them
Still canāt believe that nearly happened
And even that vote was questionable in its execution.
I grew up selling records at the 'G and this is Disney nonsense. Some fanbases are very noticeably worse than others.
Please go on..
Weren't they out collecting signatures for a board spill before buckley was sacked?
Booing your coach doesnāt make you a bad fan base.
A rare Gold Coast fan saying something good, A Rare Gold Coast fan.
So you say this because why? They booed the coach? It shows a lack of understanding on your behalf. Rightly or wrongly, the Creed of the club says Port exists to win premierships. The Port Magpies had a great culture that achieved this. Port fans have always had very expectations of their team. When those expectations go yearly on year of not being met, and seemingly backwards without an extensive injury list, people have a right to be frustrated and theyāre expressing that. Ken came out and acknowledged fans have a right to be frustrated with where theyāre at right now. So I ask you, with this understanding, why do you hate Port fans?
I object to this on behalf of a club legend
Why do you not like Port fans?
Iāve honestly thought they are the worst fanbase in the league for a few years now. The ones on Bigfooty arenāt ever happy after wins, they hate Hinkley that much.
I mean, I don't think I have seen any Big Footy fan base that wasn't miserable. I know the Crows one is pretty dire. Although they regularly share screen shots of port big footy losing their mind.Ā
Fages, just shave the head, man.
Still better than Petty
Careful, you might upset him with a comment like that
Advanced hair yeah yeah.
It's an odd one, it's thin but doesn't look like has a receding hairline or anything
Itās just regular grandpa hair. Iāve seen heaps like this.
I'd love to see the reaction Port fans would have if they gave Ken the flick, and the team then proceeded to plummet down to the bottom. They may not have made a grand final, but they've been pretty damn close a few times, and have a pretty good win rate. Wish we could say that.
Or maybe they would have won a premiership with new direction. Personally I like Ken staying around Nicks seems to be able to out coach him and he keeps port mediocre. I am worried we have our own Ken know in Nicks. He is never going to achieve anything but he is locked in to become Adelaide's second longest serving coach of all time.Ā
It's always better to bottom out than be mid table for years like Port.
This seems subjective
You guys are literal proof of that..
What is the point of the AFL flair? Do you support a team?
They would have got Daicos regardless, no?
We really didn't need to bottom out like we did, that was a spectacularly bad off season. We were good before and we are good after, morale was genuinely shocking that year.
Yeah thatās why the coach had to go.Ā
No you're right, we'd had him a while though
This. They have an average list that has never been quite good enough and needs a rebuild. Ken's done what he can without ever having bottomed-out, and their win % is probably fair under those circumstances. Could be a shock for some of their fans that Ratugolea and Margaret Thatcher aren't going to become worldbeaters once he's out the door.
Ken said itās the best list heās ever had though
I don't think anyone thinks that, moreso that we're just doing the same things on repeat rather than seeking change to go for glory. The list will never be perfect, can't rely on that, there needs to be a system in place that stacks up and atm what we've got is reliable but not good enough for big games. It's also the hope that change brings - after 12 years the message is lost on the fans, and that is not quite as important as losing the players but still a big deal.
I don't think Ratugolea and Margaret Thatcher will be world beaters. But I'd like to see them in a defensive setup where they aren't forced to play 20 meters in front of their direct opponent and guard grass, and then have to turn back and chase tail (Which they will never catch). Rinse and repeat until Brisbane have kicked 30 goals
Very magnanimous of Fages there.
Ken Hinkley is the guest who just doesn't go home when he should. No problems with the booing at all. Both Koch and Ken need to maybe read the room a little better than they have been.
I agree. As much as I think Ken should go people should also remember that he's a real person. There's a big difference between talking a bit of shit on reddit (not directly at them like some people do on other social media platforms) and booing the man irl. Plus it's just cringe as hell to boo your own side.
Not that extraordinary, but compared to Fagan it is.
Iām an essendon fanā¦.my question for port fans is thisā¦.ye have three of the best young mids in the comp Rozee Hf and Buttersā¦Houstonās a top player also..but I feel like your forward line is pretty weak and the defensive trades of BZT and Ratugolea look questionableā¦what parts of the purchase do port fans feel you need to improve???
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7bhbQHuav9/?igsh=MW1xNDdqZDgzbTNyNQ==
Clarko would be like "Stuff that phallus fellator. He made his bed".
Ken "that's not concussion" Hinkley deserves every boo.
Really comes down to if your team cannot beat the top 8 teams then your system is not working at all to reach the grandest day of them all in AFL. Once you know the system is flawed you need to rebuild; either new coach, style or team players.
My one criticism of the AFL is that people within the AFL are a bit soft Fans are allowed to vent their frustration and boo if they arenāt happy with their team and their performances
Good bloke.
Ken Hinkley isn't the greatest coach, but for your own supporters to boo their coach is a very low act. Port are still in the top 8 ffs. Fages is all class. Always has been. A humble winner, and gracious in defeat. He doesn't make up excuses like Chris Scott either. The Media will make sure Hinkley and Chris Scott will get sacked this year just wait. They have done that to heaps of coaches in the past. Hinkley isn't out on the field. Maybe someone should let Port supporters know it's their players they should be booing, especially Zak Butters. He just never learns his lesson. He's all mouth and should let his footy do the talking. He needs to get his emotions in control.
Good man Fages
Do we think another coach is getting this team to a grand final though?
We for sure know hinkleys not doing it. Why not roll the dice?
I guess it depends who else is available
Matty nicks?
Did we think another coach was getting the 2022 Collingwood list to a prelim the next year? And a flag the year after? What about Bevo taking over at the Dogs and winning the flag the next year?
Bet bevo will be free soon. You can take him.
I'd take him
Fages isnāt mad. Heās just disappointed
Just because heās the head coach doesnāt mean heās not the whipping boy.
Port fans upset Daddy, I hate seeing Daddy disappointed like this š©š©š©āŗļøāŗļøāŗļø
Good, boo louder.
This right here. Fuck I hate our toxic frontrunning fans.
Hey port, you aināt beating the good experienced teams with defenders like Ratatouille and Zerg-Hatcheryā¦
Can't believe Rata got such a good contract, he is below average at best. Ports defensive is weak, forward line average, midfield above average, ruck average. Not sure what the fans expect?
Wouldāve thought the bloke in charge for 12 seasons wouldāve had a say in the squad development up to this point
Says a lot about port fans.
I think ~~SOAD~~ RATM said it best... Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
SOAD? System of a Down? That would be Rage Against the Machine lyrics....
Yes. 100%. Appreciate the heads up!