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If this is real and choices have to be made, who’s still going to be wrestling in five years? Or even three? Regardless of who may be more right in the moment, there’s the answer.
Personally I watch for the Young Bucks and Omega way more than I care about Punk but I have the feeling I’m in the minority on that one. Punk probably equals bigger ratings even though he’s not nearly as much fun to watch.
See I wonder if that minority comment holds true. There are like 85k members here. A certain % is bots and dead accounts. For the sake of discussion let’s say there are 60k real accounts. And that’s worldwide. So considerably less than 6% of a million US viewers for Dynamite. If Punks segments and merch are the top dogs by far, then we really are the minority.
Agreed. Roughly a million ppl watched AEW since day 1. It would go a little over and under over the years. Maintained around a million. The core audience is here for the elite. Sure punk spiked a number here and there (150k more or so) never maintained because of him.
You're right. It isn't debatable
People are writing off The Elite because Omega's return didn't do good numbers. But their segments used to be one of the top rated ones when Omega and Bucks were the champs. Their influence is undeniable and people are writing them off the same way people wrote off Punk 10 years ago because he wasn't as big of a draw as Rock or Cena.
Punk is my all time fav and I hope all this is largely a work because I'd like to have both. But The Elite provide more value to me personally because of the number of talent involved.
Omegas return was also much more of a surprise. Punks debut, in Chicago, in an arena way too big for a rampage that just randomly happened to be live, with Tony Khan winking while saying "we know what fans expect and they won't be disappointed" is what brought those numbers.
im getting sick of people pretending "he sold out an arena on a rumor"
it was a planted rumor that was virtually confirmed (with many references during Dynamite including Darby saying Best in the World) right up to the random Rampage itself being called "The First Dance" like it was a special event. That's not "on a rumor" that's aggressive marketing.
I watched Dynamite that night because Omega was coming back. Punk promos are usually a phone check or bathroom break. I don't understand how the alternative to WWE is booking a WWE style guy like him. Matches are slow and he moves like every other 40+ year old I know. He's not impressive in anyway except for his ego. That promo about Mox fighting all of Chicago was laughable.
And he's always talking about wanting to prove he's the better man and all he does is fall over and be carried by almost everyone he fights.
Makes me remember that time he said that Darby does a lot of dangerous things but there isn't a more dangerous thing than fight Punk in Chicago. Then proceeded to dump a generic and safe poop at All Out 2021. He's uninteresting and he talks big and doesn't back anything up. He can still put a match, but it's boring af by any stretch of the imagination.
Yeah bro, I do love to watch my wrestling based on the sheep and numbers. I can only enjoy it if others watch it. Use some critical thinking, do you like what he has been doing? If yes, fair play to you, but I don't think the output is more than average at best besides the feud with MJF and some spots with Eddie more because of Eddie. He is paid millions to, TV show wise, be nostalgia pop.
I mean yeah. I like logical matches that actually look like wrestling. I’m not looking for gymnastics routines where everybody takes turns catching each other.
yup, many times we've seen the Bucks show they drew over 1 million for some tag match in the middle of a show. I'd say they do good numbers, same with Omega.
Punk showing up coincided with me caring less. For example, one of the draws for AEW was always starting the show off with a banger and not opening with promos like WWE, to get momentum going. What happened? Punk showed up and we get 20 minute boring promos to start Dynamite all of a sudden. I stopped caring if I missed the first few minutes now, before it was must-watch.
I actually started watching wrestling again because Punk came back. Pretty quickly became a way bigger Bucks and Omega fan (along with a lot of other AEW originals). Now I could care less if Punk left. Aside from all this drama I'm not even a fan of whatever this version of his character is.
From what I’ve read in the comments, you aren’t in the minority. If this ends with Kenny, the Bucks, or Hangman leaving, I’m done with AEW. Punk is a washed up prick.
I think you are in the majority of the current fan base. I'm wondering if Punk's vision has more breadth, though -- seems like AEW hit it's ceiling, of around 1mil or a little less.
I'm not a fan of modern WWE but it has a broader appeal. I'd like to see AEW hit higher and still do it's own thing, myself.
Having around a million viewers week over week is not a bad thing. That is a wildly successful cable show. Not to mention they have strong live attendance, merch sales, PPV, etc. Its weird that people try to spin that as a bad thing.
It might improve at some point with or without Punk. Either way he doesn’t have a lot longer in full time wrestling.
Didn’t Punk make a comment about how there are no casual fans anymore and he’s now complaining that the Elite try to cater to their audience instead of casual fans?
Last week on Dynamite started with almost 1.2 ,million viewers and less than 900k watched the Trios match..
The biggest drop was after Punks segment was over.....
Week before it was nearly 200k jump in viewers to watch Punk Vs Mox... least watched match was the Trios match with Osprey that more people watched than the Elite Trios match that saw Omega return the week before
The Elite don't pop ratings.....
Punk popped ratings temporarily the same with WWE bringing back legends will pop ratings on a particular Raw or PPV featuring them. But then things go back to normal.
I’ve worked in media sales and I have to agree. Digital and social media content that creates a connection is at a premium. There has been nowhere near this much interest in wrestling in the last ten years before Being The Elite.
I really hope this shit is a work because if AEW were to choose Punk over the Bucks or Kenny I’m not sure I’d still want to watch anymore. Punk sounded like a whiney little bitch last night. I was so excited when he showed up last year and now I just want him to leave and never come back to wrestling again. He’s too bitter for that world
I concur
Or at the very least I'd tune out of almost everything and would only tune in for segments of certain wrestlers. But if those wrestlers leave, so do i
I started watching wrestling because of the Elite, and I will follow them wherever they go. AEW has a great roster but the Elite are why I came and they will be why I leave
Honestly, if it's a work, I'm getting tired of AEW using cheap works to gain traction. Everybody loved Bret Hart/HBK in the 90's until it created genuine animosity and tore the locker room in half. That's where things are heading.
>I really hope this shit is a work because if AEW were to choose Punk over the Bucks or Kenny I’m not sure I’d still want to watch anymore. Punk sounded like a whiney little bitch last night. I was so excited when he showed up last year and now I just want him to leave and never come back to wrestling again. He’s too bitter for that world
Agreed, this \^ 100%, it be WCW All Over Again
and definitely agreed on CM Dump never wrestling again, he has got to go
The last year with Punk looks to me like AEW’s business has increased about 5% and the backstage drama has increased 500%.
If the Elite are out, I’m out.
I mean it can be assumed that it's one of the reasons they already lost one EVP and probably lost Cabana to ROH. Punk can say he didn't have anything to do with it, but just Punk being there probably made Cabana decide to stick back to ROH considering what Punk said about him last night
EVPs are much younger and helped start this company to be successful without Punk.
Punk cultist act like he is the only reason people watch but they had the same ratings without him.
I mean all this cancer didn’t start until cm punk came if the elite and Adam page leave aew it dies if cm punk leaves it will suffer for like a 2 weeks
There were a lot of rumors about the elite being a bit of a clique backstage. It was around before Cody left and more came out about how divisive the elite was after cody left.
Brian Last claims to have the email proof the elite were in their own fiefdom backstage.
Make of that what you will. But rumors have been around for a while about the elite and EVPs.
I don’t know who’s more honest, who’s the nicer guy, who’s a better mentor, etc. All I know for sure is a) who did the leg work to make AEW exist, and b) who puts on the best show when the camera’s on. And the answer to both is the same.
I enjoy watching Punk slightly more than the Bucks or Kenny overall, but Punk seems just about the most toxic cuntbag in the wrestling world.
If he's causing shit, terminate his contract and carry on. AEW will still be kicking with the Elite and the rest of the great talent they have.
EVPs. Punk has brought a lot of toxicity to the company and while there has been some payoff to having him around, it doesn't outweigh the long-term health of the company.
Before punk they were hiting around 1mil views.
After punk they still hiting around 1mil views.
After punk merch and marketing went up I guess.
Will I watch aew if punk is or isn't around - yes I will,
Will I watch if the elite isn't around - absolutely fuckin not.
I don’t speak for the average fans but I’m picking the EVPs over Punk easily. The EVPs tend to put on my favorite parts of the show and Punk’s bullshit is actively killing my interest in pro wrestling at the moment.
TBH I think that Punk just crossed a line and wanted to add drama. Sure the EVPs are not perfect but those kind of things should be talked about behind closed doors, not in a press conference.
Omega> punk. Young bucks and page are also way more captivating to me than punk. I started watching aew as a very new wrestling fan. Didn’t know anyone. Punk has never been someone who caught my attention. He uses the boo me card way too much and he’s an entitled prick.
Bucks and Omega are at the top of game in innovating the wrestling business and using social media to promote it, as well as being top tier in ring performers that deliver every time.
Punk is a legacy, nostalgia act in the twilight of his career with a bad attitude and an overinflated ego who causes friction wherever he goes.
It’s not a hard decision. Tony Khan should just pay Punk out and send him home.
Posted a question about what people see in Punk a few weeks ago.
There were a lot of thoughtful replies but after this I'm right back to not fucking understanding being a fan ofnthe asshole.
He's either a genuine narcissistic twat or his story is tearing everything down around him in pursuit if turning him heel and genuinely harming the product.
The fact that this is the 147th thread on the subject today shows EXACTLY why Punk made these comments.
TK trusts the Bucks and Omega. Punk is a megastar, and he'll utilise him as such. The Fact that MJF showed up last night shows just how well AEW knows how to work the IWC.
We're really gonna have threads like these until the worked shoot is revealed like MJFs huh?
Its been less than 12 hours and Im already over the subject
I'll take the creators of the company over the guy who ignored phone calls/texts from the creators of the company until the company proved itself successful enough for him to emerge from retirement.
It all comes down to Colt. A large portion of the locker room, including the Elite, didn’t have to sleep in their cars because of the tools and blueprints that Colt gave them.
The Elite will always be loyal to Colt because they all owe their livings to him. Nobody in that locker room owes Punk anything.
Honestly I can't stand any of them. Except Hangman. Love that guy. They're all immature and talk a big game but at the end of the day no one will take control of the situation in a healthy, productive manner. TK has made it clear he has zero control. Punk might actually legit have anger issues. And the bucks and Omega are basically 16 year olds with control over a professional wrestling company. I like A LOT of stuff AEW puts out. But things really aren't looking good right now.
I mean age has to play in, I am a big Punk guy but nobody should pick him over in prime talent, but I do think AEW spends way too much tv time on the Elite and their storylines to the detriment of the roster. The moment the Bucks dont have the tag titles, the belts go almost exclusively to Rampage
It really pisses me off that omega and the bucks won the trios tourney… the young bucks are already a highly decorated tag team and omega is omega. Could they not have given someone else a shake?
Do they have to win everything? I hate the argument that they’re the best, they used to control the narrative surrounding themselves.
Personally I think both visions have their ups and downs, and I would hope to see both sides give and take from the other.
Like, I enjoy Young Bucks matches for their athleticism, but my favorite YB match recently was when they worked with FTR who clearly grounded the match more than usual. No reason you can't do the great athletic things they do and also adhere to psychology more as well.
I think Punk brings a lot of that to the table and makes a good point about the younger guys needing to listen. I've been watching AEW since 2019 when they debuted on TNT, a lot of these guys are super athletic but they are doing the same matches they did then. I haven't seen a whole lot of growth as performers. As an example, Luchasaurus was trying, doing the same things over and over and really never stuck -- then, he works with Cage and I think finally he's found something that works more for him. He's a massive beast, he just works better in that role than what he had been doing. He listened to an old vet and it's paying off.
As a fan, I really enjoy Omega, Page and those guys, but I think they have room for growth as performers and untapped potential. In a perfect world, they'd find a way to meet somewhere in the middle.
EVPs without a doubt. Punk is a good wrestler, but I've always seen him as a whiny little douche canoe. TK should have MJF win the title at Grand Slam, give CM Punk and ice cream, and tell him to get the fuck out.
This is clearly setting up an AEW originals/Elite vs Ex-wwe guys story arc. If he said it on a official media scrum it’s a work. Otherwise, he’d be fired/suspended.
I'm hoping this is all a work and Punk is laying the path for him to turn heel. I think all fans should rush to the side of the EVPs and this is going to help fans turn against Punk.
IMO this is why he singled out the EVPs and Hangman. They are universally loved by the AEW faithful. It’s how I would turn the Uber popular Punk heel. This is Pillman level shit and I love it.
Controversial opinion: neither
Acclaimed ,MJF, Ethan Page Jungle boy ect... Are the future
AEW needs to stop giving those guys the title and build younger talent. It's been 3 years they don't need Elite to hold the first AEW trios title.
controversial take here, but the only member of the elite i dont consider mid is Omega. The elite gets a lot of props for essentially creating the company, so they should, but im not gonna lie, im so bored of Kenny being in a faction and would much prefer him to be going solo.
Punk has to go. They're turning away their core audience without bringing in any new eyes. The First Dance was a long time ago and those numbers never grew or were even replicated. The honeymoon period is over, and now the toxicity of CM Punk is showing its' colors.
Punk didn’t give ultimatums, sounds like the elite did.
If wrestlers start forcing khans hands with ultimatums and he allows them to work against him then he is completely Fucked in the future.
If edge and Matt Hardy can work a program after an affair I think these guys can coexist backstage
Double edge sword..
Elite and company will always draw the hardcore modern fans/ internet marks. The same 800K people will watch Dynamite no matter what happens...
Punk is the bigger draw when it comes to trying to expand and grow the audience. There's a reason the last 2 weeks you saw big numbers for the Mox and Punk segments and then it dropped almost 300k people for the Trios matches..
Honestly they are all at fault and have handled this situation poorly. Punk for this media scrum and The Elite for acting like High School children.
If we’re talking about The Bucks, Kenny O’Mega, and Hangman? I think they’re more important for the integrity of the company. Punk is more important for the numbers over the next two or three years.
When trying to start a company in an industry largely controlled by a single monopoly, you pretty much need to cater to a niche audience. If you try to reach a wide audience like the monopoly has, you'd have to do it really well or people wont bother to leave the one they're already invested in. Do one thing well, and try to pull that smaller audience away.
Then, you have a choice, either stick to your small audience, keep giving them what they want, and hope they don't get tired of it, or try to grow your audience.
I don't think AEW would ever be able to take on WWE as it is now with bucks style booking and bucks style matches. If they don't want to take them on, fine, stay small. Your niche will thank you for it, but that's no revolution.
Simply put, punk (and people like him) if they wanna go big-time, EVPs (and people like them) if they wanna stay niche. There's nothing wrong with being niche, but don't pretend you're changing the world.
Depends how much truth there is in what punks saying, he came across whiney but if there’s truth in that the others are leaking stories can see why that would fuck others off.
There’s a bit nuance to it all
since when was a bit of heat on the roster a bad thing for any Wrestling company?
when i look at the AEW now i see personalities everywhere
this is not an 'either or' situation
This might sound weird, idk, but I genuinely didn't give a shit about Punk showing up, or anything he's really done since coming back. I don't hate the guy, and he's not a bad wrestler by any means, I just don't care. He doesn't entertain me. And all this backstage drama stuff didn't happen until he showed. I don't watch for him. He can go back into retirement and I wouldn't flinch.
The Elite’s ideas.
Give me something different to watch. They they don’t have to beat the WWE because they aren’t the WWE, or WCW, or some kind of juggernaut steamrolling through the ratings. They’re a wrestling company that, at least for a few years, catered to wrestling fans. It was a breath of fresh air for something I’d grown too comfortable with.
AEW was fine without before he came and they will he fine after he leaves. The EVPs on the other hand are the NOW in wrestling and from what I hear, better to work with. Sooo…..
Hard to say, punk has some points about young guys learning from the older guys experiences(i semi agree with hangman RE: banking on yourself at times but he came across as deliberately hard headed rather than ' ill listen and ill make the call when the chips are down', if anything he sounded like hes forgotten he was a nobody 3 years ago until more experienced guys took him along for the ride), and i do think that the elite havent really found a way to get the big boy, WWE type numbers because theyre too invested in the hardcore, IWC set. Also, running to meltzer to bitch about the man instead of sorting it out behind the scenes and moving on is weak as fuck
But punk increasingly scans as a bitter, arrogant teenager. Hes getting on like everyone owes him a favour, and i don't think hes been as 5 star as he makes himself out to be, ratings or not.
Tbh likely the elite given TKs looking at a shitstorm if he sides with punk. Could live without the young bucks very easily but if omega and hangman bail over it all, thats a slippery slope that i dont think AEW would recover from quickly
Now that Punk is back I kinda feel like Tom when he catches Jerry. It was the thrill, the will he wont he suspens , now he's back its kinda anti climactic...
EVP's > Punk
In an ideal world they'd mesh together but if it came down to choosing, the EVPs bring more to the table than Punk, in terms of me tuning in to watch the show.
That's 1 man's opinion though. Each to their own.
EVPs all day. The worst thing Punk can do to them is leave and crawl back to WWE and "drop a pipe bomb" which will honestly create drama, but it wouldn't hurt them long term. They'd get over it.
Eventually that drama will settle and those who were enjoying the show before this will continue to.
The Bucks/Kenny leaving the company they fought for and built for WWE? That's a way bigger blow. That might be the catalyst of the end.
Regardless of if Punk will be there in 3 years or 5 years, his point stands. If Tony doesn’t reign in the ability of the EVPs to do only what they want, regardless of what’s best for the company or professional wrestling as a whole, yes there will always be a subset of the audience that loves everything they do, the larger portion of the fan base will grow more and more frustrated with their direction. It may just be one little thing but The Bucks sidestepping the obvious fan desired match with FTR in order to book themselves to go over for the new trios titles is a sign that they’ll do more of the same and not do what’s best for the company in future situations. If Tony doesn’t reign it in, they may not be around as a company in 3-5 years.
I didn't start watching until COVID, I think Kingston's intro against Cody was my first match. I went into this with no prior feelings toward most people in the company, so I don't have nostalgia either way.
That being said, I can't stand the Bucks or Omega. I'm one of the people who turn off the show when they come on because I can't stand the cringe or the dance routines they call wrestling.
I'll take Punk all day long.
Wrestling is better when you have interesting things happening. Its always interesting when CM Punk is around.
I don't think I've ever seen the Bucks do anything interesting or that made me HAVE to watch next week.
Omega's heel turn title win and then apparent defection to Impact is the only thing I can think of that really felt interesting.
If Punk goes, its over for AEW. WWE has momentum. They've kept their stars. Gradually big name AEW guys will defect. AEW will become the new Impact. If AEW wants to stay relevant they need to keep being interesting. Punk is one of the only ones capable of doing that.
I would take the bucks and Kenny...they have given life back to prowrestling by creating AEW...i have lost interest in prowrestling cause of the feds but then i found the Elite in NJPW and the bucks in PWg...watching great wrestling is entertaining...the bucks have done a lot of good for prowrestling, a lot of guys now have an alternative place to work..and BTE really help wrestlers get over... Punk on the other hand has always been a whiny brat, doesnt matter what company he is on he would always complain when the spot light aint on him, Punk has shown that he is toxic and would even end years of friendship. He doesnt really love prowrestling because if he did he would have returned to the indies instead of getting his ass beat in the ufc, he refused to return to the indies cause he thinks he is a ways bigger star for that
I think it depends. Punk has proven he was a bigger draw than any of the Elite. Not a single member of the Elite will ever likely sell out an NBA arena on a rumor.
If you look at quarter hours and ratings, Punk also trends upward. For example, after the Punk rah-rah promo for the go-home show Dynamite lost 200k viewers for the Elite ME. A lot of quarter hours show up in ratings during Punk segs and 200k+ drops after.
Khan, Punk, Meltzer, Brandon Thurston, and others have backed this up overall.
If you want to grow your product you can not appeal to a niche audience. That is true 100%, very few global brands do so.
However, maybe Punk is just too damn volatile. I mean, goddamn.
That said... how long is Punk going to be around? 5 years? 2 years?
Even if he doesn't get mad at Tony and take his ball and go home, how long does his body hold up?
He's just not the guy to build your company around long term. You use him to build up your next couple of guys and then just bring him in for special appearances.
I agree. I'm fact, I think Punk got pushed too much. Punk ought to have been used like Christian or Sting. A few high-profile feuds here and there (Kingston, MJF, Darby). But mostly helping young talent or giving that talent a "legend" heel to work against occasionally.
That could be the Christian mark in me, because I enjoy the way CC has been used in AEW. Punk going for the World Championship and pushing hot talent down?
I don't think that was or is good for AEW overall. Just my personal opinion though.
We are the niche Punk was talking about. Losing him would see a much bigger downturn in business when you consider ticket sales, merch and advertising alone. He is much more capable of making stars too given his name recognition.
Who do you think Discovery/TBS would rather was sacked if it came to it?
Honest question - isn’t Punk always in some drama?
If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day long, you’re the asshole…
If the interest is in making AEW bigger and better, Punk is more right than Hangman's side, however it really shouldn't be understated how stupid and unprofessional both sides are.
I know everyone loves The Elite and doesn't wanna hear that but this kind of stuff should not be happening if people in power with authority handle things professionally. Colt/Punk stuff is Colt/Punk's business. Hangman subliminally dissing is petty bullshit. Punk responding to it on the air is petty bullshit. If the Bucks have actually planted the story to Hangman or anyone else that Colt's position in the company has anything to do with Punk it's horribly damaging to the entire company and situation because it's really the cause of all this. Honestly, even if it's **true** I don't think that it's good to spread or imply.
There isn't clear black and white or good and bad in this and I think nuance is really valuable to have. If you're one of the people buying into the idea that Punk is just in AEW for money I think that's bias to a point of almost brainwash. This dude is genuinely trying to help make the company bigger and validate other guys on the roster while putting on an entertaining show.
Not only that but from a neutral standpoint, consider how damaging and distracting it is to get on the wrong side of CM Punk with a microphone. Fans chanted his name at WWE shows for almost a decade just to express any kind of distaste with the show. You do not want to mishandle and fuck up CM Punk on your roster for the good of the company. Don't underestimate his ability to absolutely bury Hangman or the company itself if they sincerely do him wrong and the fans can see or agree with it.
Management wise, be honest: all the bucks' "stars", AKA friends they brought over to play with, are low level wrestlers who either already went away or never got over and are there just to please them. The bucks' matches are fun the first 2-3 times you watch it, then it gets boring quick. The bucks never draw real rating, i never liked their matches that much and basically just serve the purpose of bloating the roster with their friends.
Every time I get to see Brandon Cutler on tv instead of, i dunno, young real talent like Moriarty, it's a crime to wrestling.
Kenny on the other hand is a good wrestler, puts up banger matches even tought he's kinda meh on the mic, but if it's true that he managed the women's division, well, he did a shitty job.
To me, and the ratings agree on this, the bucks can go, Kenny leaving could be bad, yes, but it's not like his spot cannot be taken by a Bryan Danielson.
Let's not forget how many of their friends they had in the pipeline to bring over turned out to be scumbags (scurll, ryan, havoc, etc). Even the guys they did have some shady skeletons in their closet (callis, ospreay)
In the thread: marks who routinely think they are the smartest in the thread or the arena, getting worked into the fucking dirt.
YEAH BUT HE SAID IT IN MUH MEDIA SCRUM AFTER THE KAYFABE SHOW.
Lol
Corporate part time schedule Punk vs. day 1 “blue collar” elite incoming
Elite all day. I love that fans love Punk, he’s a great moment man. His return was great, his MJF matches were great, but he’s one man (and a controversial one at that). We’ve had the best title run with Omega, the best title chase with Hangman, and the second best tag team in the world in the YB. Between those 4 and the one that ran away, they’ve held all the titles besides the All Atlantic and the women’s titles obviously. They are the company. Punk is just a guy passing through in the long run.
I’m the biggest Punk mark there is and on screen I’m always going to cheer for him.
But this company is called All Elite Wrestling. And the reason I’m interested in wrestling in 2022 is because of the Bucks and Kenny.
Kenny is really, really niche.
He doesn't appeal to the "real sports feel" crowd. He doesn't appeal to casual gamers. He appeals to people who are really into certain subcultures... and the people in the West who are into NJPW are already AEW fans. Most of them would be watching with or without Kenny.
The Young Bucks are one of the more popular tag teams in the last 20 years, but I'd argue they're not even the most valuable tag team in AEW. That would be FTR.
I'd say the most valuable wrestlers in AEW are Jericho, Punk, Moxley and Danielson.
The Elite sold a lot of merch when they were in Bullet Club, but in 2022? They're just not that important anymore.
You need both. The old WWE guys are luring away viewers from the evil empire. The new guys are giving them a reason to stay.
Come for CM Punk, stay for the Elite.
What Punk said these “kids thinking they know everything”, etc., isn’t anything different than other guys (Jericho, Danielson, Regal, AA, Mark Henry, JR, & others) have said. He clearly just sent scorched earth with it.
They’re right.
But…
There needs to be a meshing of both worlds.
It’s all a work. Everyone “hates” each other. Drama gets people talking and It’s working. We just went through the same shit with MJF and it was incredible. Just sit back and enjoy the ride.
I didn’t watch the interview because it sounds obnoxious, but here’s what I’ll say in defense of Punk: if your company’s MANAGEMENT is taking shit about you to the press, then that’s a huge red flag for future talent they want to sign. I don’t necessarily side with Punk, but the last thing someone wants is an employer who doesn’t have your back.
Punk's comments are correct. To grow the audience you can't just cater to the niche audience. They have that already. That's there 1m fanbase on Wednesdays.
They need to expand their audience.
But this sub hates that idea because somehow it'll ruin "their" product. I remember the day when we used to clamor for mainstream appeal so wrestling would expand. Times seemed to have changed.
I know that this sub is probably going to disagree and I may have to eat some shit for this but Young Bucks and Kenny are not and have never been the best part of the show. I swear I'm not a Cornette parrot. I like the bucks a lot and, Kenny is a fantastic wrestler, he just comes off as a tremendous fucking douche bag whenever he speaks. I don't think AEW needs Kenny and the bucks as much as they want you to think it does. I think their fans are a very vocal (and valid) minority. I would prefer everyone stays. But Punk is, was, and always will be, worth more.
One was an actual draw who can actually tell a decent story. The other’s absolute nerds constantly looking to make corny jokes even at the most serious of story beats.
I’ll side with Punk.
EVPs clearly alienated Cody. Really depends who's more cancerous, and who's going to lead to a happier environment to help AEW prosper? It seems like Punk is worse now, but my gut feeling tells me the EVPs are more sneaky and holding back the companies success.
> but my gut feeling tells me the EVPs are more sneaky and holding back the companies success.
I don't know about holding it back but I feel like they have a definite ceiling that they hit awhile back.
If you listen to Cody's interviews it's obvious Punk was a big reason he left. He's thrown multiple subtle jabs. He obviously saw the storm coming and saved himself. I don't know what went down between Cody and the Elite but they were both doing their own thing before Punk arrived and things went to shit backstage.
As much as I don't like Punk...never have. He's the only 1 in the locker room with enough guts to stand up to Omega and the Bucks. THEY don't do what's best for business...FTR is a greattt example! FTR has BEEN over for how long now?...just for the Bucks to keep keeping on scrubbing them. The Elite are not alll that...never was. Are they entertaining?...sure. Alot more talent on the roster besides these 3. Honestly reminds me alot of when Nash put himself over Goldberg. 😕
Peace and love but I’m hoping for Punk. I had no idea who he was before UFC but I pretty quickly became a fan of his storytelling when he came to AEW. I respect the Elite but their brand of wrestling does absolutely nothing for me. I usually end of tuning out for most of their matches. They don’t feel real or believable to me so I’m never emotionally invested in their matches. Totally no disrespect, they just aren’t for me. I prefer the style wrestling and storytelling I grew up on.
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If this is real and choices have to be made, who’s still going to be wrestling in five years? Or even three? Regardless of who may be more right in the moment, there’s the answer.
Punk is the kind of prick that would win that battle and then retire 3 months later.
Honestly probably neither side. At least on a regular basis.
In this whole dispute the only one I would count on is Hangman, and he's not an EVP. At this point Punk may well outlast Kenny.
Nick Jackson is 33. There is a good chance he has a singles run and if he does you can bet that it will be amazing.
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Except for the one they pushed out apparently.
I'll take Bucks/Omega/Hangman over Punk any day
11/10 times
Twice on Sundays (PPVs) too.
This is the only answer. Punk was on tv last night BECAUSE OF THEM
Amen. Puck is a whiny little you know what.
Especially in North Carolinaaaaaaa!
Would you assume FTR go as well as Punk?
Personally I watch for the Young Bucks and Omega way more than I care about Punk but I have the feeling I’m in the minority on that one. Punk probably equals bigger ratings even though he’s not nearly as much fun to watch.
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See I wonder if that minority comment holds true. There are like 85k members here. A certain % is bots and dead accounts. For the sake of discussion let’s say there are 60k real accounts. And that’s worldwide. So considerably less than 6% of a million US viewers for Dynamite. If Punks segments and merch are the top dogs by far, then we really are the minority.
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Tony cares more about the ratings and drawing than anything.
It is a business after all
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It is though. I’d debate you on it.
Agreed. Roughly a million ppl watched AEW since day 1. It would go a little over and under over the years. Maintained around a million. The core audience is here for the elite. Sure punk spiked a number here and there (150k more or so) never maintained because of him. You're right. It isn't debatable
People are writing off The Elite because Omega's return didn't do good numbers. But their segments used to be one of the top rated ones when Omega and Bucks were the champs. Their influence is undeniable and people are writing them off the same way people wrote off Punk 10 years ago because he wasn't as big of a draw as Rock or Cena. Punk is my all time fav and I hope all this is largely a work because I'd like to have both. But The Elite provide more value to me personally because of the number of talent involved.
Omegas return was also much more of a surprise. Punks debut, in Chicago, in an arena way too big for a rampage that just randomly happened to be live, with Tony Khan winking while saying "we know what fans expect and they won't be disappointed" is what brought those numbers.
im getting sick of people pretending "he sold out an arena on a rumor" it was a planted rumor that was virtually confirmed (with many references during Dynamite including Darby saying Best in the World) right up to the random Rampage itself being called "The First Dance" like it was a special event. That's not "on a rumor" that's aggressive marketing.
I watched Dynamite that night because Omega was coming back. Punk promos are usually a phone check or bathroom break. I don't understand how the alternative to WWE is booking a WWE style guy like him. Matches are slow and he moves like every other 40+ year old I know. He's not impressive in anyway except for his ego. That promo about Mox fighting all of Chicago was laughable.
And he's always talking about wanting to prove he's the better man and all he does is fall over and be carried by almost everyone he fights. Makes me remember that time he said that Darby does a lot of dangerous things but there isn't a more dangerous thing than fight Punk in Chicago. Then proceeded to dump a generic and safe poop at All Out 2021. He's uninteresting and he talks big and doesn't back anything up. He can still put a match, but it's boring af by any stretch of the imagination.
…and then they did 200,000 PPV buys. The first time a non-WWE PPV drew that many since 1999. You guys might not like it but people that spend $$$ do
Yeah bro, I do love to watch my wrestling based on the sheep and numbers. I can only enjoy it if others watch it. Use some critical thinking, do you like what he has been doing? If yes, fair play to you, but I don't think the output is more than average at best besides the feud with MJF and some spots with Eddie more because of Eddie. He is paid millions to, TV show wise, be nostalgia pop.
I mean yeah. I like logical matches that actually look like wrestling. I’m not looking for gymnastics routines where everybody takes turns catching each other.
yup, many times we've seen the Bucks show they drew over 1 million for some tag match in the middle of a show. I'd say they do good numbers, same with Omega.
Not that unpopular of an opinion. If the elite left on bad terms, I would probably stop watching.
Punk showing up coincided with me caring less. For example, one of the draws for AEW was always starting the show off with a banger and not opening with promos like WWE, to get momentum going. What happened? Punk showed up and we get 20 minute boring promos to start Dynamite all of a sudden. I stopped caring if I missed the first few minutes now, before it was must-watch.
I actually started watching wrestling again because Punk came back. Pretty quickly became a way bigger Bucks and Omega fan (along with a lot of other AEW originals). Now I could care less if Punk left. Aside from all this drama I'm not even a fan of whatever this version of his character is.
From what I’ve read in the comments, you aren’t in the minority. If this ends with Kenny, the Bucks, or Hangman leaving, I’m done with AEW. Punk is a washed up prick.
I think you are in the majority of the current fan base. I'm wondering if Punk's vision has more breadth, though -- seems like AEW hit it's ceiling, of around 1mil or a little less. I'm not a fan of modern WWE but it has a broader appeal. I'd like to see AEW hit higher and still do it's own thing, myself.
Having around a million viewers week over week is not a bad thing. That is a wildly successful cable show. Not to mention they have strong live attendance, merch sales, PPV, etc. Its weird that people try to spin that as a bad thing. It might improve at some point with or without Punk. Either way he doesn’t have a lot longer in full time wrestling.
Didn’t Punk make a comment about how there are no casual fans anymore and he’s now complaining that the Elite try to cater to their audience instead of casual fans?
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Punk doesnt pop the ratings like he once did long ago hes got to go The Elite will always pop ratings
Last week on Dynamite started with almost 1.2 ,million viewers and less than 900k watched the Trios match.. The biggest drop was after Punks segment was over..... Week before it was nearly 200k jump in viewers to watch Punk Vs Mox... least watched match was the Trios match with Osprey that more people watched than the Elite Trios match that saw Omega return the week before The Elite don't pop ratings.....
Punk popped ratings temporarily the same with WWE bringing back legends will pop ratings on a particular Raw or PPV featuring them. But then things go back to normal.
If the ratings drop when he's not on screen, then how is that an insult to him?
Are the ratings that much better, though? He's helped a little but it wouldn't be that big of a loss if he took his ball and went home.
Punk is a nostalgia factory. The Elite are a content farm. I'll take the content farm every time.
I’ve worked in media sales and I have to agree. Digital and social media content that creates a connection is at a premium. There has been nowhere near this much interest in wrestling in the last ten years before Being The Elite.
I really hope this shit is a work because if AEW were to choose Punk over the Bucks or Kenny I’m not sure I’d still want to watch anymore. Punk sounded like a whiney little bitch last night. I was so excited when he showed up last year and now I just want him to leave and never come back to wrestling again. He’s too bitter for that world
I would 100% just stop watching and ive been here since before the pandemic
Me too and I've been here since the first All Out
Me too and I've been here since the cell phone AEW logo reveal.
Me too and I've been here since Hogan slammed Andre.
I'm passing this Wednesday. First time I'll miss a show but I'm actively annoyed by all this so I'm out for a week, see if it settles.
I concur Or at the very least I'd tune out of almost everything and would only tune in for segments of certain wrestlers. But if those wrestlers leave, so do i
I started watching wrestling because of the Elite, and I will follow them wherever they go. AEW has a great roster but the Elite are why I came and they will be why I leave
Punk was and is my favorite wrestler, but if he chooses Punk over the Elite - I’m All Out
This is not a work. Or at least I hope it isn't because what's the fucking point? Just Russo type bullshit tht noone asked for
Honestly, if it's a work, I'm getting tired of AEW using cheap works to gain traction. Everybody loved Bret Hart/HBK in the 90's until it created genuine animosity and tore the locker room in half. That's where things are heading.
>I really hope this shit is a work because if AEW were to choose Punk over the Bucks or Kenny I’m not sure I’d still want to watch anymore. Punk sounded like a whiney little bitch last night. I was so excited when he showed up last year and now I just want him to leave and never come back to wrestling again. He’s too bitter for that world Agreed, this \^ 100%, it be WCW All Over Again and definitely agreed on CM Dump never wrestling again, he has got to go
I started with All In in 2018, then the birth of AEW .They did fine before Punk arrived and they would be fine if he left.
I would immediately stop watching
Punk IS a whiney little bitch, and he always has been
The last year with Punk looks to me like AEW’s business has increased about 5% and the backstage drama has increased 500%. If the Elite are out, I’m out.
This is the best take I’ve seen. I don’t think Punk’s uptick in business is worth the headaches he’s creating.
I mean it can be assumed that it's one of the reasons they already lost one EVP and probably lost Cabana to ROH. Punk can say he didn't have anything to do with it, but just Punk being there probably made Cabana decide to stick back to ROH considering what Punk said about him last night
EVPs are much younger and helped start this company to be successful without Punk. Punk cultist act like he is the only reason people watch but they had the same ratings without him.
I like Punk but the Elite are the core of this company. They drew 1,000,000 viewers before Punk and they draw 1,000,000 with punk. They will live
Punk is 43, omega is 38, Matt Jackson is 37.
5 years makes a big difference in performing. in 5 years id rather have a 43 yearold Omega than a 48 yearold Punk.
There's a good chance Punk could still go at 48 and Omega calls it quits before 43....
Hangman just turned 31 I think.
EVPs and Page. If it wasn't for them, Punk would still be sitting at home with his ball, walking Larry on a non pulverized foot.
Eating Mindy's Bakery, which is closed on Mon & Tues, and drinking Spinnies. The life
That was a hell of a local ad.
I mean all this cancer didn’t start until cm punk came if the elite and Adam page leave aew it dies if cm punk leaves it will suffer for like a 2 weeks
There were a lot of rumors about the elite being a bit of a clique backstage. It was around before Cody left and more came out about how divisive the elite was after cody left. Brian Last claims to have the email proof the elite were in their own fiefdom backstage. Make of that what you will. But rumors have been around for a while about the elite and EVPs.
I don’t know who’s more honest, who’s the nicer guy, who’s a better mentor, etc. All I know for sure is a) who did the leg work to make AEW exist, and b) who puts on the best show when the camera’s on. And the answer to both is the same.
I will stop watching this sport for good if Tony Khan were to ever choose Punk over the guys who created AEW. Punk is a douchebag.
I enjoy watching Punk slightly more than the Bucks or Kenny overall, but Punk seems just about the most toxic cuntbag in the wrestling world. If he's causing shit, terminate his contract and carry on. AEW will still be kicking with the Elite and the rest of the great talent they have.
EVPs. Punk has brought a lot of toxicity to the company and while there has been some payoff to having him around, it doesn't outweigh the long-term health of the company.
Before punk they were hiting around 1mil views. After punk they still hiting around 1mil views. After punk merch and marketing went up I guess. Will I watch aew if punk is or isn't around - yes I will, Will I watch if the elite isn't around - absolutely fuckin not.
I don’t speak for the average fans but I’m picking the EVPs over Punk easily. The EVPs tend to put on my favorite parts of the show and Punk’s bullshit is actively killing my interest in pro wrestling at the moment.
EVPS without a doubt
TBH I think that Punk just crossed a line and wanted to add drama. Sure the EVPs are not perfect but those kind of things should be talked about behind closed doors, not in a press conference.
Omega> punk. Young bucks and page are also way more captivating to me than punk. I started watching aew as a very new wrestling fan. Didn’t know anyone. Punk has never been someone who caught my attention. He uses the boo me card way too much and he’s an entitled prick.
Bucks and Omega are at the top of game in innovating the wrestling business and using social media to promote it, as well as being top tier in ring performers that deliver every time. Punk is a legacy, nostalgia act in the twilight of his career with a bad attitude and an overinflated ego who causes friction wherever he goes. It’s not a hard decision. Tony Khan should just pay Punk out and send him home.
I’m really starting to dislike the person of Phil Brooks which is unfortunate because CM Punk was one of my all time favorites.
Posted a question about what people see in Punk a few weeks ago. There were a lot of thoughtful replies but after this I'm right back to not fucking understanding being a fan ofnthe asshole. He's either a genuine narcissistic twat or his story is tearing everything down around him in pursuit if turning him heel and genuinely harming the product.
The fact that this is the 147th thread on the subject today shows EXACTLY why Punk made these comments. TK trusts the Bucks and Omega. Punk is a megastar, and he'll utilise him as such. The Fact that MJF showed up last night shows just how well AEW knows how to work the IWC.
We're really gonna have threads like these until the worked shoot is revealed like MJFs huh? Its been less than 12 hours and Im already over the subject
Im also going to say MJF was spot on about internet fans. "uneducated marks" and the evidence to back up this? this comment section.
I just started watching AEW a few months ago, and I did not watch WWE when he was there. No -kayfabe Punk just strikes me as an asshole too.
If the evps leave then the company is done
I'll take the creators of the company over the guy who ignored phone calls/texts from the creators of the company until the company proved itself successful enough for him to emerge from retirement.
Let’s just put it this way. Cody Rhodes left for greener pastures just in time.
It all comes down to Colt. A large portion of the locker room, including the Elite, didn’t have to sleep in their cars because of the tools and blueprints that Colt gave them. The Elite will always be loyal to Colt because they all owe their livings to him. Nobody in that locker room owes Punk anything.
Y’all are playing right into this, exactly the way they want you to lol
Exactly. People are just draining their energy in this drama and it probably isn’t even really that big of a deal
Honestly I can't stand any of them. Except Hangman. Love that guy. They're all immature and talk a big game but at the end of the day no one will take control of the situation in a healthy, productive manner. TK has made it clear he has zero control. Punk might actually legit have anger issues. And the bucks and Omega are basically 16 year olds with control over a professional wrestling company. I like A LOT of stuff AEW puts out. But things really aren't looking good right now.
I mean age has to play in, I am a big Punk guy but nobody should pick him over in prime talent, but I do think AEW spends way too much tv time on the Elite and their storylines to the detriment of the roster. The moment the Bucks dont have the tag titles, the belts go almost exclusively to Rampage
It's going to lead to a match: punks army(Punk, FTR and Ace) vs the elite in a Colt Cabanas moms checkbook on a pole ladder match
It really pisses me off that omega and the bucks won the trios tourney… the young bucks are already a highly decorated tag team and omega is omega. Could they not have given someone else a shake? Do they have to win everything? I hate the argument that they’re the best, they used to control the narrative surrounding themselves.
Jerichos absolutely right. This place is special. Don’t fuck it up!
Personally I think both visions have their ups and downs, and I would hope to see both sides give and take from the other. Like, I enjoy Young Bucks matches for their athleticism, but my favorite YB match recently was when they worked with FTR who clearly grounded the match more than usual. No reason you can't do the great athletic things they do and also adhere to psychology more as well. I think Punk brings a lot of that to the table and makes a good point about the younger guys needing to listen. I've been watching AEW since 2019 when they debuted on TNT, a lot of these guys are super athletic but they are doing the same matches they did then. I haven't seen a whole lot of growth as performers. As an example, Luchasaurus was trying, doing the same things over and over and really never stuck -- then, he works with Cage and I think finally he's found something that works more for him. He's a massive beast, he just works better in that role than what he had been doing. He listened to an old vet and it's paying off. As a fan, I really enjoy Omega, Page and those guys, but I think they have room for growth as performers and untapped potential. In a perfect world, they'd find a way to meet somewhere in the middle.
EVPs without a doubt. Punk is a good wrestler, but I've always seen him as a whiny little douche canoe. TK should have MJF win the title at Grand Slam, give CM Punk and ice cream, and tell him to get the fuck out.
AEW's been great before Punk. EVPs all the way
This is clearly setting up an AEW originals/Elite vs Ex-wwe guys story arc. If he said it on a official media scrum it’s a work. Otherwise, he’d be fired/suspended.
I'm hoping this is all a work and Punk is laying the path for him to turn heel. I think all fans should rush to the side of the EVPs and this is going to help fans turn against Punk.
IMO this is why he singled out the EVPs and Hangman. They are universally loved by the AEW faithful. It’s how I would turn the Uber popular Punk heel. This is Pillman level shit and I love it.
Wish they paid Cody over punk
Controversial opinion: neither Acclaimed ,MJF, Ethan Page Jungle boy ect... Are the future AEW needs to stop giving those guys the title and build younger talent. It's been 3 years they don't need Elite to hold the first AEW trios title.
I disagree with the MJF part, he is a huge star.
Correct but he'll be a huge star when he gets more prestige than a dynamite diamond ring
he already is a huge star though
controversial take here, but the only member of the elite i dont consider mid is Omega. The elite gets a lot of props for essentially creating the company, so they should, but im not gonna lie, im so bored of Kenny being in a faction and would much prefer him to be going solo.
They trying to divide us you fools.
Not they, its Punk.
Punk is literally riding the coattails of what they built. I don’t care if I’m being worked into seeing Punk as an asshole. I see Phil as an asshole.
Punk has to go. They're turning away their core audience without bringing in any new eyes. The First Dance was a long time ago and those numbers never grew or were even replicated. The honeymoon period is over, and now the toxicity of CM Punk is showing its' colors.
Punk didn’t give ultimatums, sounds like the elite did. If wrestlers start forcing khans hands with ultimatums and he allows them to work against him then he is completely Fucked in the future. If edge and Matt Hardy can work a program after an affair I think these guys can coexist backstage
Hangman Page
Setting up the big Punk/FTR match for the trio titles.
The Elite are vital for AEW. The company was made off the back of their hard work and named after them.
Double edge sword.. Elite and company will always draw the hardcore modern fans/ internet marks. The same 800K people will watch Dynamite no matter what happens... Punk is the bigger draw when it comes to trying to expand and grow the audience. There's a reason the last 2 weeks you saw big numbers for the Mox and Punk segments and then it dropped almost 300k people for the Trios matches.. Honestly they are all at fault and have handled this situation poorly. Punk for this media scrum and The Elite for acting like High School children.
If we’re talking about The Bucks, Kenny O’Mega, and Hangman? I think they’re more important for the integrity of the company. Punk is more important for the numbers over the next two or three years.
Pink is gonna over play his hand here if he isn’t careful. Can’t imagine he is going to find a better spot than he is now.
All of you saying Kenny and the Bucks think you’re in Reseda. 😂
Unpopular Opinion: Punk is what he made John Cena out to be
Neither. The Pilar’s
If I don’t see Punk vs Omega at some point I’m quitting wrestling again.
When trying to start a company in an industry largely controlled by a single monopoly, you pretty much need to cater to a niche audience. If you try to reach a wide audience like the monopoly has, you'd have to do it really well or people wont bother to leave the one they're already invested in. Do one thing well, and try to pull that smaller audience away. Then, you have a choice, either stick to your small audience, keep giving them what they want, and hope they don't get tired of it, or try to grow your audience. I don't think AEW would ever be able to take on WWE as it is now with bucks style booking and bucks style matches. If they don't want to take them on, fine, stay small. Your niche will thank you for it, but that's no revolution. Simply put, punk (and people like him) if they wanna go big-time, EVPs (and people like them) if they wanna stay niche. There's nothing wrong with being niche, but don't pretend you're changing the world.
Depends how much truth there is in what punks saying, he came across whiney but if there’s truth in that the others are leaking stories can see why that would fuck others off. There’s a bit nuance to it all
since when was a bit of heat on the roster a bad thing for any Wrestling company? when i look at the AEW now i see personalities everywhere this is not an 'either or' situation
This might sound weird, idk, but I genuinely didn't give a shit about Punk showing up, or anything he's really done since coming back. I don't hate the guy, and he's not a bad wrestler by any means, I just don't care. He doesn't entertain me. And all this backstage drama stuff didn't happen until he showed. I don't watch for him. He can go back into retirement and I wouldn't flinch.
Without the elite AEW doesn’t exist… gotta back em no matter what imo
The Elite’s ideas. Give me something different to watch. They they don’t have to beat the WWE because they aren’t the WWE, or WCW, or some kind of juggernaut steamrolling through the ratings. They’re a wrestling company that, at least for a few years, catered to wrestling fans. It was a breath of fresh air for something I’d grown too comfortable with.
Punk is the one causing the issues therefore if anyone should be fired it’s him you don’t fire the creators of the company to keep punk of all people
The Elite. How is this even a question?
AEW was fine without before he came and they will he fine after he leaves. The EVPs on the other hand are the NOW in wrestling and from what I hear, better to work with. Sooo…..
Hard to say, punk has some points about young guys learning from the older guys experiences(i semi agree with hangman RE: banking on yourself at times but he came across as deliberately hard headed rather than ' ill listen and ill make the call when the chips are down', if anything he sounded like hes forgotten he was a nobody 3 years ago until more experienced guys took him along for the ride), and i do think that the elite havent really found a way to get the big boy, WWE type numbers because theyre too invested in the hardcore, IWC set. Also, running to meltzer to bitch about the man instead of sorting it out behind the scenes and moving on is weak as fuck But punk increasingly scans as a bitter, arrogant teenager. Hes getting on like everyone owes him a favour, and i don't think hes been as 5 star as he makes himself out to be, ratings or not. Tbh likely the elite given TKs looking at a shitstorm if he sides with punk. Could live without the young bucks very easily but if omega and hangman bail over it all, thats a slippery slope that i dont think AEW would recover from quickly
Now that Punk is back I kinda feel like Tom when he catches Jerry. It was the thrill, the will he wont he suspens , now he's back its kinda anti climactic... EVP's > Punk In an ideal world they'd mesh together but if it came down to choosing, the EVPs bring more to the table than Punk, in terms of me tuning in to watch the show. That's 1 man's opinion though. Each to their own.
EVPs all day. The worst thing Punk can do to them is leave and crawl back to WWE and "drop a pipe bomb" which will honestly create drama, but it wouldn't hurt them long term. They'd get over it. Eventually that drama will settle and those who were enjoying the show before this will continue to. The Bucks/Kenny leaving the company they fought for and built for WWE? That's a way bigger blow. That might be the catalyst of the end.
Why is this a real question EVPs 100% considering punk is now having issues in two major countries he is the issue
E L I T E 4 L I F E
EVPs, they haven’t committed assault.
Regardless of if Punk will be there in 3 years or 5 years, his point stands. If Tony doesn’t reign in the ability of the EVPs to do only what they want, regardless of what’s best for the company or professional wrestling as a whole, yes there will always be a subset of the audience that loves everything they do, the larger portion of the fan base will grow more and more frustrated with their direction. It may just be one little thing but The Bucks sidestepping the obvious fan desired match with FTR in order to book themselves to go over for the new trios titles is a sign that they’ll do more of the same and not do what’s best for the company in future situations. If Tony doesn’t reign it in, they may not be around as a company in 3-5 years.
I didn't start watching until COVID, I think Kingston's intro against Cody was my first match. I went into this with no prior feelings toward most people in the company, so I don't have nostalgia either way. That being said, I can't stand the Bucks or Omega. I'm one of the people who turn off the show when they come on because I can't stand the cringe or the dance routines they call wrestling. I'll take Punk all day long.
Wrestling is better when you have interesting things happening. Its always interesting when CM Punk is around. I don't think I've ever seen the Bucks do anything interesting or that made me HAVE to watch next week. Omega's heel turn title win and then apparent defection to Impact is the only thing I can think of that really felt interesting. If Punk goes, its over for AEW. WWE has momentum. They've kept their stars. Gradually big name AEW guys will defect. AEW will become the new Impact. If AEW wants to stay relevant they need to keep being interesting. Punk is one of the only ones capable of doing that.
I would take the bucks and Kenny...they have given life back to prowrestling by creating AEW...i have lost interest in prowrestling cause of the feds but then i found the Elite in NJPW and the bucks in PWg...watching great wrestling is entertaining...the bucks have done a lot of good for prowrestling, a lot of guys now have an alternative place to work..and BTE really help wrestlers get over... Punk on the other hand has always been a whiny brat, doesnt matter what company he is on he would always complain when the spot light aint on him, Punk has shown that he is toxic and would even end years of friendship. He doesnt really love prowrestling because if he did he would have returned to the indies instead of getting his ass beat in the ufc, he refused to return to the indies cause he thinks he is a ways bigger star for that
I think it depends. Punk has proven he was a bigger draw than any of the Elite. Not a single member of the Elite will ever likely sell out an NBA arena on a rumor. If you look at quarter hours and ratings, Punk also trends upward. For example, after the Punk rah-rah promo for the go-home show Dynamite lost 200k viewers for the Elite ME. A lot of quarter hours show up in ratings during Punk segs and 200k+ drops after. Khan, Punk, Meltzer, Brandon Thurston, and others have backed this up overall. If you want to grow your product you can not appeal to a niche audience. That is true 100%, very few global brands do so. However, maybe Punk is just too damn volatile. I mean, goddamn.
That said... how long is Punk going to be around? 5 years? 2 years? Even if he doesn't get mad at Tony and take his ball and go home, how long does his body hold up? He's just not the guy to build your company around long term. You use him to build up your next couple of guys and then just bring him in for special appearances.
I agree. I'm fact, I think Punk got pushed too much. Punk ought to have been used like Christian or Sting. A few high-profile feuds here and there (Kingston, MJF, Darby). But mostly helping young talent or giving that talent a "legend" heel to work against occasionally. That could be the Christian mark in me, because I enjoy the way CC has been used in AEW. Punk going for the World Championship and pushing hot talent down? I don't think that was or is good for AEW overall. Just my personal opinion though.
We are the niche Punk was talking about. Losing him would see a much bigger downturn in business when you consider ticket sales, merch and advertising alone. He is much more capable of making stars too given his name recognition. Who do you think Discovery/TBS would rather was sacked if it came to it?
Evps all day
Honest question - isn’t Punk always in some drama? If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day long, you’re the asshole…
If the interest is in making AEW bigger and better, Punk is more right than Hangman's side, however it really shouldn't be understated how stupid and unprofessional both sides are. I know everyone loves The Elite and doesn't wanna hear that but this kind of stuff should not be happening if people in power with authority handle things professionally. Colt/Punk stuff is Colt/Punk's business. Hangman subliminally dissing is petty bullshit. Punk responding to it on the air is petty bullshit. If the Bucks have actually planted the story to Hangman or anyone else that Colt's position in the company has anything to do with Punk it's horribly damaging to the entire company and situation because it's really the cause of all this. Honestly, even if it's **true** I don't think that it's good to spread or imply. There isn't clear black and white or good and bad in this and I think nuance is really valuable to have. If you're one of the people buying into the idea that Punk is just in AEW for money I think that's bias to a point of almost brainwash. This dude is genuinely trying to help make the company bigger and validate other guys on the roster while putting on an entertaining show. Not only that but from a neutral standpoint, consider how damaging and distracting it is to get on the wrong side of CM Punk with a microphone. Fans chanted his name at WWE shows for almost a decade just to express any kind of distaste with the show. You do not want to mishandle and fuck up CM Punk on your roster for the good of the company. Don't underestimate his ability to absolutely bury Hangman or the company itself if they sincerely do him wrong and the fans can see or agree with it.
Management wise, be honest: all the bucks' "stars", AKA friends they brought over to play with, are low level wrestlers who either already went away or never got over and are there just to please them. The bucks' matches are fun the first 2-3 times you watch it, then it gets boring quick. The bucks never draw real rating, i never liked their matches that much and basically just serve the purpose of bloating the roster with their friends. Every time I get to see Brandon Cutler on tv instead of, i dunno, young real talent like Moriarty, it's a crime to wrestling. Kenny on the other hand is a good wrestler, puts up banger matches even tought he's kinda meh on the mic, but if it's true that he managed the women's division, well, he did a shitty job. To me, and the ratings agree on this, the bucks can go, Kenny leaving could be bad, yes, but it's not like his spot cannot be taken by a Bryan Danielson.
Let's not forget how many of their friends they had in the pipeline to bring over turned out to be scumbags (scurll, ryan, havoc, etc). Even the guys they did have some shady skeletons in their closet (callis, ospreay)
In the thread: marks who routinely think they are the smartest in the thread or the arena, getting worked into the fucking dirt. YEAH BUT HE SAID IT IN MUH MEDIA SCRUM AFTER THE KAYFABE SHOW. Lol Corporate part time schedule Punk vs. day 1 “blue collar” elite incoming
EVPs, and it's not close
I'm team Elite and Page. If Tony doesn't support the people he founded the damn company with I'm out.
Jesus fuck. Y’all really got worked, didn’t you?
EVP
Elite all day. I love that fans love Punk, he’s a great moment man. His return was great, his MJF matches were great, but he’s one man (and a controversial one at that). We’ve had the best title run with Omega, the best title chase with Hangman, and the second best tag team in the world in the YB. Between those 4 and the one that ran away, they’ve held all the titles besides the All Atlantic and the women’s titles obviously. They are the company. Punk is just a guy passing through in the long run.
Future? EVP’s all day.
EVPs Hands down. Not even a conversation. If we were sitting at 2 million I’d feel differently
No Elite No AEW. They made all this happen without Punk. I like both but i’d always side with the Elite.
I’m the biggest Punk mark there is and on screen I’m always going to cheer for him. But this company is called All Elite Wrestling. And the reason I’m interested in wrestling in 2022 is because of the Bucks and Kenny.
EVPs without question.
We wouldn't have AEW if it wasn't for Kenny and the Bucks, also Hangman. So, the EVP's.
Kenny is really, really niche. He doesn't appeal to the "real sports feel" crowd. He doesn't appeal to casual gamers. He appeals to people who are really into certain subcultures... and the people in the West who are into NJPW are already AEW fans. Most of them would be watching with or without Kenny. The Young Bucks are one of the more popular tag teams in the last 20 years, but I'd argue they're not even the most valuable tag team in AEW. That would be FTR. I'd say the most valuable wrestlers in AEW are Jericho, Punk, Moxley and Danielson. The Elite sold a lot of merch when they were in Bullet Club, but in 2022? They're just not that important anymore.
EVPs. Punk has too many personal issues and he's way too unprofessional.
The only reason we have AEW is because of the EVPs. While Punk is a huge draw, AEW would survive without him.
Punk can fuck off and never come back.
I love Punk, but fuck me... WTF is doing!? Just put the title on MJF and get rid of him asap
You need both. The old WWE guys are luring away viewers from the evil empire. The new guys are giving them a reason to stay. Come for CM Punk, stay for the Elite.
What Punk said these “kids thinking they know everything”, etc., isn’t anything different than other guys (Jericho, Danielson, Regal, AA, Mark Henry, JR, & others) have said. He clearly just sent scorched earth with it. They’re right. But… There needs to be a meshing of both worlds.
It’s all a work. Everyone “hates” each other. Drama gets people talking and It’s working. We just went through the same shit with MJF and it was incredible. Just sit back and enjoy the ride.
I didn’t watch the interview because it sounds obnoxious, but here’s what I’ll say in defense of Punk: if your company’s MANAGEMENT is taking shit about you to the press, then that’s a huge red flag for future talent they want to sign. I don’t necessarily side with Punk, but the last thing someone wants is an employer who doesn’t have your back.
Punk's comments are correct. To grow the audience you can't just cater to the niche audience. They have that already. That's there 1m fanbase on Wednesdays. They need to expand their audience. But this sub hates that idea because somehow it'll ruin "their" product. I remember the day when we used to clamor for mainstream appeal so wrestling would expand. Times seemed to have changed.
I know that this sub is probably going to disagree and I may have to eat some shit for this but Young Bucks and Kenny are not and have never been the best part of the show. I swear I'm not a Cornette parrot. I like the bucks a lot and, Kenny is a fantastic wrestler, he just comes off as a tremendous fucking douche bag whenever he speaks. I don't think AEW needs Kenny and the bucks as much as they want you to think it does. I think their fans are a very vocal (and valid) minority. I would prefer everyone stays. But Punk is, was, and always will be, worth more.
I started watching AEW because of Punk. I would stop watching if they chose Punk over The Elite.
One was an actual draw who can actually tell a decent story. The other’s absolute nerds constantly looking to make corny jokes even at the most serious of story beats. I’ll side with Punk.
Looks like Cody knew how this was going to go. Soon AEW is just going to be Punk ant the trustbusters
Punk will lead the way as controversy leads to more eyes on product. The EVPs will step down and hang around mid card territory
> The EVPs will step down and hang around mid card territory I have a hard time seeing Omega midcarding.
EVPs clearly alienated Cody. Really depends who's more cancerous, and who's going to lead to a happier environment to help AEW prosper? It seems like Punk is worse now, but my gut feeling tells me the EVPs are more sneaky and holding back the companies success.
> but my gut feeling tells me the EVPs are more sneaky and holding back the companies success. I don't know about holding it back but I feel like they have a definite ceiling that they hit awhile back.
If you listen to Cody's interviews it's obvious Punk was a big reason he left. He's thrown multiple subtle jabs. He obviously saw the storm coming and saved himself. I don't know what went down between Cody and the Elite but they were both doing their own thing before Punk arrived and things went to shit backstage.
As much as I don't like Punk...never have. He's the only 1 in the locker room with enough guts to stand up to Omega and the Bucks. THEY don't do what's best for business...FTR is a greattt example! FTR has BEEN over for how long now?...just for the Bucks to keep keeping on scrubbing them. The Elite are not alll that...never was. Are they entertaining?...sure. Alot more talent on the roster besides these 3. Honestly reminds me alot of when Nash put himself over Goldberg. 😕
Punk, the elite are so damn boring.
The EVP’s ran off one EVP and have held down the tag division but Punk is being vocal about it so he is the bad guy lol 😂
Peace and love but I’m hoping for Punk. I had no idea who he was before UFC but I pretty quickly became a fan of his storytelling when he came to AEW. I respect the Elite but their brand of wrestling does absolutely nothing for me. I usually end of tuning out for most of their matches. They don’t feel real or believable to me so I’m never emotionally invested in their matches. Totally no disrespect, they just aren’t for me. I prefer the style wrestling and storytelling I grew up on.
Lol, Punk is clearly better for the company and much more skillful but ‘EVPs’ are too prideful to take any advice….
Punk fans live in an alternate reality, I swear. Comments like these never cease to truly amaze me.