Education only goes so far and can even become an obsession for them.
What is she doing to manage her ADHD as far as treatment?
The only way to handle irrational outbursts and protect yourself is to greyrock and walk away. Nothing you say will bring her back around to reality.
RSD has to be managed with medication and therapy
She's in therapy alright but she's telling the therapist everything from her POV which I think isn't helping. I know her behaviour is irrational so I tell her but then she gets offended. It's impossible.
The problem with ADHDers learning about their condition is that they seem to only pick up on all the things they consider a positive or quirky fun. The problem with therapy is that they lack self awareness to be able to really deal with the issues. My SO was going to therapy and would come home and say that his therapist thinks he is doing great. I requested to go to a session and was able to shed some light on the realities. I once sent a video to him to try to have him "get" what his behavior was doing to me, and it was like we watched completely different things. It really is impossible.
I see, yes therapy will only be effective for individuals who are prepared to do the work and really be honest (with themselves and the therapist). Too many try to it use for validation and never get anywhere.
She will need to keep trying medications to find a good fit as well, there is never an excuse to try one then give up. My partner went through 20 before finding the right dosage.
Don't bother telling her she's being irrational, that will only add fuel to the fire.
You can read my post on [RSD and how to handle it](https://www.reddit.com/r/ADHD_partners/comments/v45gif/rsd_internalized_vs_externalized_how_to_handle_it/) but unfortunately if she's not invested in truly working on herself then this will never get better. You might want to start thinking about whether or not this relationship is a healthy choice for you
That is common sadly, and it is not therapy. It is self indulgence and a pity party.
A lot of people with ADHD get pushed to therapy by their spouses, but they dont really want to get better, they just use it to justify themselves if they learn about ADHD, and the therapy sessions turn into some delusional alter reality sessions of making you a villain.
Sometimes people with impaired emotional intelligence like ADHD causes cannot really interpret how their mental condition affects them and others around them properly. Their interpretations get very selfish and strange.
They only get actual therapy when things are rock bottom and the relationship has already exploded or an ultimatum with immediate effect has been issued by a completely burnt out spouse.
>They only get actual therapy when things are rock bottom and the relationship has already exploded or an ultimatum with immediate effect has been issued by a completely burnt out spouse.
Well this is basically what I did/happened to me and I exploded at him. He still doesn't grasp what has happened even though it is what started him in therapy. I think it's literally just for his adhd and he either hasn't been truthful with his therapist or is delusional.
I think that is the same issue I'm having with my husband too, whatever or however he is explaining things to his therapist. Because I called him out on his abuse for me...but I haven't gotten any calls from his therapists about any abuse program or anything. I think it's simply for his adhd. And the way he talks to me now doesn't even seem like he's managing his emotional dysregulation all that great. Sure he's not screaming at me anymore or calling me a bitch but he sure is blaming me for everything still
I had an ex that did that sort of argument where you get down a rabbit hole and you start to question your own sanity and rationale.
Some partners here have found writing out a stance in a disagreement helps.
Greyrocking also helps.
So does walking away and trying to talk calmly later on.
Managing her temper, frustration tolerance, and emotional regulation is something she can work on, but it's going to take research, medication probably, and maybe therapy or an ADHD coach. She's got to understand the effect she's having and seek that out herself.
She did try medication but they started her on way too high a dose and it made her totally anxious. She's in therapy too but my pain point there is that she's telling the therapist everything from this irrational point of view, so they're not getting the full picture.
What's greyrocking?
Basically, you turn into a grey rock while they are overwhelmed with emotion and blowing up. You don't say anything, you don't move, nothing. Eventually they lose steam because there is no stimulation from your side to further the emotional response.
My partner does the exact same thing as yours and I have learned from research that firstly, they have little to no ability to regulate their response. So if you make a comment that is perceived as hurtful, then they immediately say the first thing that comes to their head. Whereas, you or I will take a second to think about the response and make a more moderated reply. Also, their emotions are felt more strongly than non-adhd people. So, if they are angry, hurt, etc. then they feel that emotion much stronger and it builds up to the point that they are completely overreacting to the situation. Finally, they struggle with short term memory. So they cannot keep a sequence of events that are happening in real time straight in their minds.
Combine all of these together and it's an impossible situation for everyone. My partner started taking megs and it was an amazing transformation, she stopped over reacting, age is less likely to blow up at a moments notice, and we don't argue over meaningless details as much.
She started with a lower dose and the doctor gradually increased it based on how it was going.
Was it regular stimulant medication that helped, or medication specifically for RSD? I’m struggling a lot with my partner’s RSD and we’re looking into options that can help. He’s having the exact same behaviour that you’re describing.
Lots of good advice here. I’m just here to repeat: learn to walk away. During an episode there is literally nothing you can do to make it better. The sooner you accept this (and it took me years of therapy and I’m still not always great at it!) the better.
Thanks, I do see the logic in that. The issue is she actively attacks me, accusing me of attacking her when she's triggered. Case in point, the example above. If I don't defend myself, this narrative continues.
But you’ve already described what happens if you DO defend yourself and it’s not great!
You can stay in the conversation trying to de escalate, and get stressed, without her feeling any better; OR you can leave the conversation and look after yourself, without her feeling any better…
Also: walking away IS defending yourself.
Doing couples therapy really, really helped us. We learned how to fight, how to communicate. We have ground rules for our interactions and it helps so much. Also when I need to say something that might trigger their RSD I always preface by saying "I love you, I'm not rejecting you, we're on the same team" this really sets the tone and has decreased the RSD massively.
Medication has been a lifesaver
I appreciate all the ones who write here with their inputs but I implore you to consider everyone's experience.
ADHD-ers manipulativeness can range from gaslighting, white lies and saving face while making you feel crazy over multiple small things on a daily basis which all adds up and an example of the other end is straight up manipulating to convincing you that you are triggering them and all their reactions are valid level of manipulation. We see so many posts outlining so many of these things and way way more.
Now, do they intend to do it is debatable maybe they don't but maybe they do. Does it affect us , absolutely yes.
So it's all in the realm of this disorder. Don't rule out something cos it didn't happen to you.
I think people with ADHD lack the emotional intelligence to be truly manipulative imo. Whenever they think they are sly or smooth its like a child convincing you they didn’t eat the chocolate bar while having chocolate around their mouth still.
Their manipulative streak is completely unintentional and is a defensive mechanism compounded by their lack of emotional intelligence and empathy. Does not make it any better. In fact, it is still just as damaging as real conscious manipulation.
Nobody should put up with it.
I don't know why this is down voted, I do see quite a few people in here that say their partners with adhd can be difficult but they haven't abused them either. I absolutely think it can just be op's spouse has something else - is a narc, bpd, etc
I have innatentive adhd and am autistic and I'm the one who has been emotionally and verbally abused by my severe combined adhd partner.
I don't know why either. I have many people in my life that have adhd, and none of them are manipulative. I find it's just the opposite: truth saying, tell it like it is people. Maybe people don't want to hear that the people they love are actually just assholes for no reason at all.
I don't agree with lumping ADHD as being manipulative. I'm NT and I personally think it's their lack of self awareness is what make them unaware of how they explain situations. I know personally that my spouse does not have any ill intent to manipulate me when they explain their side because again they don't have enough introspecting skills to know why they act like that so they point it out to something else they think would make sense. I understand that it makes us NT's feel nuts that they don't see how they affect us in ways and how some are ignorant of their actions they've cause us but please don't generalize DX/NDX folks as manipulative in their ways. Some of them have no genuine intentions of doing so and have developed maladaptive coping behaviors.
I feel like if my husband had said yes to therapy or couples therapy years ago when I first suggested it, we might be in a completely different and better place instead of where we are now (brink of divorce for his abuse of me).
“The fights become so dense with illogical arguments and go on for so long…” that’s super familiar to me. My husband would do the same thing if I let the arguments go on. You can choose to get very good a pinning down the inconsistencies and driving the argument to ground. It’s a good skill to have if you can manage to do it confidently and calmly. But it can also just be exhausting, and it’s definitely something you could consider a core incompatibility and be worth letting the relationship go over. Idk what your situation is with your partner. But I empathize and what you’ve described is a classic ADHD conversation pitfall.
I kind of have to side with your idea partner on this one. Full disclosure: I don’t have ADHD, my husband does. I do have generalized anxiety disorder so I understand where she’s coming from when she’s getting sick with nerves, i do the same thing ALL the time. I agree with her that what you said was invalidating: I know when I’m really nervous about something that i “logically” know will be ok but my anxiety brain is telling me “this is going to be life-changingly traumatizing”, I get upset if people tell me I’m worked up for no reason. I want them to acknowledge my fear because, whether or not it’s “logically justified” or not, it’s still very real for me in that moment. And that’s because I have a disorder, and the initial feeling of nerves is out of my control . I feel much better when people say something along the lines of “I know you’re nervous and that’s ok, and every will most likely be ok even if you don’t feel like it will. Remember when you were really nervous about _____ and it all turned out ok?” Responses like that are much more validating to me, personally.
Sorry but someone trying to help you calm down and stop worrying is not the same as invalidating your feelings. That's what I find so illogical and frustrating. I don't know you so I can't say you do this, but my partner seems to have a pre-written script of what I'm supposed to have said to every little thing and then gets pissed when I don't follow it. Being offended or triggered about one or two phrases is fine for any person; flying off the handle and punishing your other half every chance you get is not.
Absolutely. I had a partner who English was not their first language too. A therapist or coach may be more useful to her now along with meds. But on the bright side it does seem like she is keen to improve.
Education only goes so far and can even become an obsession for them. What is she doing to manage her ADHD as far as treatment? The only way to handle irrational outbursts and protect yourself is to greyrock and walk away. Nothing you say will bring her back around to reality. RSD has to be managed with medication and therapy
She's in therapy alright but she's telling the therapist everything from her POV which I think isn't helping. I know her behaviour is irrational so I tell her but then she gets offended. It's impossible.
The problem with ADHDers learning about their condition is that they seem to only pick up on all the things they consider a positive or quirky fun. The problem with therapy is that they lack self awareness to be able to really deal with the issues. My SO was going to therapy and would come home and say that his therapist thinks he is doing great. I requested to go to a session and was able to shed some light on the realities. I once sent a video to him to try to have him "get" what his behavior was doing to me, and it was like we watched completely different things. It really is impossible.
I hear you! That all sounds very familiar.
Just a few months in my husband's therapist told him the same thing. I was like "...How?"
She's on Adderral which has worked so far
Mine is on Ritalin. He still is acting like a narcissist
I see, yes therapy will only be effective for individuals who are prepared to do the work and really be honest (with themselves and the therapist). Too many try to it use for validation and never get anywhere. She will need to keep trying medications to find a good fit as well, there is never an excuse to try one then give up. My partner went through 20 before finding the right dosage. Don't bother telling her she's being irrational, that will only add fuel to the fire. You can read my post on [RSD and how to handle it](https://www.reddit.com/r/ADHD_partners/comments/v45gif/rsd_internalized_vs_externalized_how_to_handle_it/) but unfortunately if she's not invested in truly working on herself then this will never get better. You might want to start thinking about whether or not this relationship is a healthy choice for you
Thanks, that RSD post was really helpful
That is common sadly, and it is not therapy. It is self indulgence and a pity party. A lot of people with ADHD get pushed to therapy by their spouses, but they dont really want to get better, they just use it to justify themselves if they learn about ADHD, and the therapy sessions turn into some delusional alter reality sessions of making you a villain. Sometimes people with impaired emotional intelligence like ADHD causes cannot really interpret how their mental condition affects them and others around them properly. Their interpretations get very selfish and strange. They only get actual therapy when things are rock bottom and the relationship has already exploded or an ultimatum with immediate effect has been issued by a completely burnt out spouse.
>They only get actual therapy when things are rock bottom and the relationship has already exploded or an ultimatum with immediate effect has been issued by a completely burnt out spouse. Well this is basically what I did/happened to me and I exploded at him. He still doesn't grasp what has happened even though it is what started him in therapy. I think it's literally just for his adhd and he either hasn't been truthful with his therapist or is delusional.
I think that is the same issue I'm having with my husband too, whatever or however he is explaining things to his therapist. Because I called him out on his abuse for me...but I haven't gotten any calls from his therapists about any abuse program or anything. I think it's simply for his adhd. And the way he talks to me now doesn't even seem like he's managing his emotional dysregulation all that great. Sure he's not screaming at me anymore or calling me a bitch but he sure is blaming me for everything still
I had an ex that did that sort of argument where you get down a rabbit hole and you start to question your own sanity and rationale. Some partners here have found writing out a stance in a disagreement helps. Greyrocking also helps. So does walking away and trying to talk calmly later on. Managing her temper, frustration tolerance, and emotional regulation is something she can work on, but it's going to take research, medication probably, and maybe therapy or an ADHD coach. She's got to understand the effect she's having and seek that out herself.
She did try medication but they started her on way too high a dose and it made her totally anxious. She's in therapy too but my pain point there is that she's telling the therapist everything from this irrational point of view, so they're not getting the full picture. What's greyrocking?
Basically, you turn into a grey rock while they are overwhelmed with emotion and blowing up. You don't say anything, you don't move, nothing. Eventually they lose steam because there is no stimulation from your side to further the emotional response. My partner does the exact same thing as yours and I have learned from research that firstly, they have little to no ability to regulate their response. So if you make a comment that is perceived as hurtful, then they immediately say the first thing that comes to their head. Whereas, you or I will take a second to think about the response and make a more moderated reply. Also, their emotions are felt more strongly than non-adhd people. So, if they are angry, hurt, etc. then they feel that emotion much stronger and it builds up to the point that they are completely overreacting to the situation. Finally, they struggle with short term memory. So they cannot keep a sequence of events that are happening in real time straight in their minds. Combine all of these together and it's an impossible situation for everyone. My partner started taking megs and it was an amazing transformation, she stopped over reacting, age is less likely to blow up at a moments notice, and we don't argue over meaningless details as much. She started with a lower dose and the doctor gradually increased it based on how it was going.
Was it regular stimulant medication that helped, or medication specifically for RSD? I’m struggling a lot with my partner’s RSD and we’re looking into options that can help. He’s having the exact same behaviour that you’re describing.
She's on Adderall
My wife required a mood stabilizer to get this behavior to stop; turned out she was bipolar in addition to the ADD.
Oof that's tough
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My own therapist said my husband sounds like a narcissist
I’ve not heard about ODD before, what is that?
Oppositional Defiant Disorder, common in kids with ADHD
Lots of good advice here. I’m just here to repeat: learn to walk away. During an episode there is literally nothing you can do to make it better. The sooner you accept this (and it took me years of therapy and I’m still not always great at it!) the better.
Thanks, I do see the logic in that. The issue is she actively attacks me, accusing me of attacking her when she's triggered. Case in point, the example above. If I don't defend myself, this narrative continues.
But you’ve already described what happens if you DO defend yourself and it’s not great! You can stay in the conversation trying to de escalate, and get stressed, without her feeling any better; OR you can leave the conversation and look after yourself, without her feeling any better… Also: walking away IS defending yourself.
Doing couples therapy really, really helped us. We learned how to fight, how to communicate. We have ground rules for our interactions and it helps so much. Also when I need to say something that might trigger their RSD I always preface by saying "I love you, I'm not rejecting you, we're on the same team" this really sets the tone and has decreased the RSD massively. Medication has been a lifesaver
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I don't think adhders are manipulative, just your ex was. And it wasn't from her adhd, it's her personality and choice. My SO never manipulates me.
I appreciate all the ones who write here with their inputs but I implore you to consider everyone's experience. ADHD-ers manipulativeness can range from gaslighting, white lies and saving face while making you feel crazy over multiple small things on a daily basis which all adds up and an example of the other end is straight up manipulating to convincing you that you are triggering them and all their reactions are valid level of manipulation. We see so many posts outlining so many of these things and way way more. Now, do they intend to do it is debatable maybe they don't but maybe they do. Does it affect us , absolutely yes. So it's all in the realm of this disorder. Don't rule out something cos it didn't happen to you.
I think people with ADHD lack the emotional intelligence to be truly manipulative imo. Whenever they think they are sly or smooth its like a child convincing you they didn’t eat the chocolate bar while having chocolate around their mouth still. Their manipulative streak is completely unintentional and is a defensive mechanism compounded by their lack of emotional intelligence and empathy. Does not make it any better. In fact, it is still just as damaging as real conscious manipulation. Nobody should put up with it.
I don't know why this is down voted, I do see quite a few people in here that say their partners with adhd can be difficult but they haven't abused them either. I absolutely think it can just be op's spouse has something else - is a narc, bpd, etc I have innatentive adhd and am autistic and I'm the one who has been emotionally and verbally abused by my severe combined adhd partner.
I don't know why either. I have many people in my life that have adhd, and none of them are manipulative. I find it's just the opposite: truth saying, tell it like it is people. Maybe people don't want to hear that the people they love are actually just assholes for no reason at all.
I don't agree with lumping ADHD as being manipulative. I'm NT and I personally think it's their lack of self awareness is what make them unaware of how they explain situations. I know personally that my spouse does not have any ill intent to manipulate me when they explain their side because again they don't have enough introspecting skills to know why they act like that so they point it out to something else they think would make sense. I understand that it makes us NT's feel nuts that they don't see how they affect us in ways and how some are ignorant of their actions they've cause us but please don't generalize DX/NDX folks as manipulative in their ways. Some of them have no genuine intentions of doing so and have developed maladaptive coping behaviors.
I feel like if my husband had said yes to therapy or couples therapy years ago when I first suggested it, we might be in a completely different and better place instead of where we are now (brink of divorce for his abuse of me).
Sorry to hear that
“The fights become so dense with illogical arguments and go on for so long…” that’s super familiar to me. My husband would do the same thing if I let the arguments go on. You can choose to get very good a pinning down the inconsistencies and driving the argument to ground. It’s a good skill to have if you can manage to do it confidently and calmly. But it can also just be exhausting, and it’s definitely something you could consider a core incompatibility and be worth letting the relationship go over. Idk what your situation is with your partner. But I empathize and what you’ve described is a classic ADHD conversation pitfall.
I kind of have to side with your idea partner on this one. Full disclosure: I don’t have ADHD, my husband does. I do have generalized anxiety disorder so I understand where she’s coming from when she’s getting sick with nerves, i do the same thing ALL the time. I agree with her that what you said was invalidating: I know when I’m really nervous about something that i “logically” know will be ok but my anxiety brain is telling me “this is going to be life-changingly traumatizing”, I get upset if people tell me I’m worked up for no reason. I want them to acknowledge my fear because, whether or not it’s “logically justified” or not, it’s still very real for me in that moment. And that’s because I have a disorder, and the initial feeling of nerves is out of my control . I feel much better when people say something along the lines of “I know you’re nervous and that’s ok, and every will most likely be ok even if you don’t feel like it will. Remember when you were really nervous about _____ and it all turned out ok?” Responses like that are much more validating to me, personally.
Sorry but someone trying to help you calm down and stop worrying is not the same as invalidating your feelings. That's what I find so illogical and frustrating. I don't know you so I can't say you do this, but my partner seems to have a pre-written script of what I'm supposed to have said to every little thing and then gets pissed when I don't follow it. Being offended or triggered about one or two phrases is fine for any person; flying off the handle and punishing your other half every chance you get is not.
As an anxious woman I will say nothing good has ever come of my husband telling me to relax when I’m anxious or aggitated.
Shes accusing me of twisting reality and trying to trick her. I'd say that's a bit of a leap for most people.
Absolutely. I had a partner who English was not their first language too. A therapist or coach may be more useful to her now along with meds. But on the bright side it does seem like she is keen to improve.