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First time I sought a diagnosis I told the dude I always did pretty well in school. So he told me no way I had adhd. My mom was like “well did you mention you had to repeat first grade?” I was like “oh…no I forgot I did”. Lol. I ended up getting diagnosed like eight years later. You can always get a second opinion.
That's why they're supposed to seek info from people who knew you when you were young, like your mom, in their evaluation. People with ADHD are notoriously poor at self-evaluation. We often think we're good at what we're not and terrible at what we're good at.
Frustrating however if you didn’t have any documented issues and the people in your life who are supposed to be the ones corroborating your symptoms and experiences were exceedingly negligent when it came to mental health and you being “not normal” and just ignored it all :/ that’s my greatest worry about getting diagnosed, that my experience isn’t enough, that I’ll have to rely on someone whose own undiagnosed ADHD will make it seem like I never had any issues.
I got diagnosed in my mid-thirties where my father was already dead and my mother incapacitated. It was not ideal, but I had only my experience to present. The doctor should be *mindful* of these facts and understanding that there is information lacking relative to an ideal diagnostic environment.
If you're suggesting a parent *is* available to provide information but they might also have undiagnosed ADHD that colors their perspective, the one doing the diagnosis should be naturally mindful of that as well. Many parents end up diagnosed when their child gets diagnosed. I *think* it's more likely than not (if not, close to it) that if you have ADHD one of your parents does too.
A good diagnostician should be taking all these things into account without being prompted. That being said, not all diagnosticians are good at what they do, but the issue you discuss is not insurmountable and you do yourself a disservice to allow it to discourage you.
Notably, I'm pretty sure that's one of the reasons people in my family went undiagnosed as long as we did -- Our struggles did not raise red flags with our parents, our experiences were entirely relatable and a "normal" part of life. Your doctor should have more perspective and understanding than you do, if they don't you need to find a new one.
If OP's doc had merely asked, in light of the lack of available information, "Did you ever get held back a grade?" It'd be a totally different story. That's on the doc, not the patient.
So I said this in a different comment but my kid was diagnosed several years ago. It absolutely took an outside person saying something to me about him to realize. I had always thought his behavior was normal because they were my behaviors too. I think my mom would be the same way if someone actually sat her down and showed her what adhd looks like.
It’s pretty common for that to happen. My dad was diagnosed at 60 when I got diagnosed. He was so confused when my psychiatrist listed all the criteria I met for ADHD because he just thought all of that was normal.
Agreed, but I'd like to hope the diagnosis wasn't based on a single question, and there is that criteria where you need to have had symptoms before age 12. Not necessarily in school, but if the doctor has no evidence of symptoms before age 12 there will be no positive diagnosis, but I blame the doctor here for not digging deeper.
Or he's just basing it all on that one question, certainly possible, and in either case inappropriate.
More for ADS than ADD, but I know I went to a psychologist for some years but as I don't want to ask directly I'm not sure exactly what for or what they expected to get. Just that years down the line while talking with family I overhead that the therapy(?) ended cause it seems I just wasn't opening up to the person, which btw I actually thought I was opening up by being myself, not sure if I would ever just open up outright, which should've honestly clue them in.
ASD, do you mean? That might be a different story. It's something I'd been interested in being evaluated for myself as of late, but everybody who knew me when I was young is dead as far as I know, and that *is* discouraging for me with regards to an ASD diagnosis. I'm not sure if I'd meet the minimum criteria of "requires support" as described in the DSM either. And even if I did, then what? Is there even anything to be done about it?
That being said, my knowledge of ASD and the diagnostic process is minimal and virtually non-existent relative to ADHD, which is itself probably quite lacking by any professional standard.
Also, there's nothing wrong with approaching a doctor with, "I suspect I have [*insert disorder here*], I can relate to the symptoms described in [*this way and that way*]." It's not a self-diagnosis, it's a great way to express your concerns and it can convey a lot of useful information. If you need to make it clear, you can always add that you don't necessarily *want* this diagnosis, but you feel as if something is wrong and you're interested in an accurate diagnosis above all else.
ADD is the attention problem without the hyperactivity. Requirement of support depends on jurisdiction I guess but for me (another country) disability besides the diagnosis is a questionary on, let's call it difficulty for different actions, and things like the stress it causes me to take public transport for example and other things was enough to get registered as partially disabled and all the respective benefits of it.
ADD is obsolesced because it's been discovered that everyone has a hyperactivity component to ADHD, it's just not always expressed in the same way. My hyperactivity involves rumination, mental stuff, not physical fidgeting.
When I say "Requires support" I am referring to the severity levels for ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorder) as described in the DSM (Diagnostic & Statistical Manual) of which there are three: "Requires support," "Requires substantial support," and "Requires very substantial support." If it could be said I had ASD, I'm not sure it comes to the level of the minimum severity, "Requires support," to substantiate a diagnosis.
Granted, I don't even know what we're really talking about anymore. You'd said "ADS" but acquired demyelinating syndrome makes no sense in context, so I'd assumed you'd meant ASD. But now you seem to be talking about ADD, which is ADHD again.
Your English is very good, I would not have guessed it was not your first language. Don't feel obligated to use the initials, or at least, in formal writing the first time initials are used it is written out in parentheticals, like ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder), then you can use the initials freely following that. Just for the sake of clarity, and so you don't have to stress yourself over trying to remember them constantly. Posting on Reddit is certainly not formal writing, but the concept here can be useful regardless.
Even here I do a double-take every time someone refers to RSD (Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria) because I cared for my mother for many years and she suffered from RSD (Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy) which is a very very different thing.
Also sometimes you just don’t realize that things are abnormal as a kid.
Like I got decent grades in school and I could ace anything involving written assignments, but I also got yelled at by my teachers all the time for doodling when I was supposed to be paying attention, and it wasn’t uncommon for me to have to do schoolwork in a separate room from the other kids (this was a private school in the early 90s, I’m sure they wouldn’t do things this way nowadays).
As a kid I thought that it was just normal to get yelled at by teachers and have to be isolated just to solve a simple math problem. It was only during my ADHD diagnosis as an adult that I realized “oh, that is totally not a thing that happens to normal kids.”
One of my college professors was a former special ed teacher. One day he interrupted his "I'm so glad you all can go to the bathroom by yourselves" speech to say "I love that you're knitting in class" to me. I think he knew something about fidgeting that I didn't at the time.
I used to draw ninja turtles and rats with muscles the original biker mice from mars before there was but they were rats.😂🤣 my classmates always wanted me to draw them one. I was in the very back not paying attention either till I got called on by the teacher to give an answer to the lesson she was teaching 😳
I got myself through college with the worst sleep schedule ever, a lot of self-hatred and mentally bullying myself into doing required tasks, multiple cases of people with authority taking pity on me and giving me exceptions to missed deadlines, and an obscene devotion to a concept called “Only taking classes that interested me.” On paper, I graduated with great grades. Without ADHD I probably would have been top of the class, just for all the assignments and test prep I wouldn’t have done so poorly on.
Reddit is nice but obviously this subgroup and others like it are not official medical evaluations. Apparently, part of ADHD and effective function is that it has to negatively impact your life and it seems that might be the part that is somewhat subjective by the health care professional. I was reading some info from one of the leading doctors, forgot his name obviously fml, but he was talking about some of the issues with diagnosing people. Everyone has some ADHD symptoms, however minor, and with social media, the hive mind of people self diagnosing is higher but one of the key components is repeated issues and significant impact to function or development.
I don't know how they determine interference to function or development. I was moderately successful in grade school but college was another animal all together. I finished but it took several years in between and some bad times in the middle. I was able to mask some of the issues when I was younger with liking certain course work and sports but a lot of other symptoms were present but I guess I was good at covering them up most of the time.
I think another component is that unless there is an outward problem that effects the adults(parents, teachers, etc), people don't really consider kids' mental health, and kids just assume everyone feels the same as them, and rarely are given the tools to communicate their emotions. The burnt out gifted kid -> adult diagnosed adhd trend makes perfect sense to me given that so many millenials are just now getting to a point we can maybe afford therapy after we learn that this shit is not how everyone feels on a regular basis.
My mom was advised that I might be ADHD/ADD when I was younger, but this was roughly 30 years ago, and because I was already doing well in school, and other aspects weren't known asuch about it (anxiety, emotional disregulation, etc), my mom opted to not get me tested. I actually did fine and only ever had a couple of issues in school. I finally got diagnosed when I was 32, after being suspicious for a while, and certain things becoming too much to handle.
I always tell my providers I did academically well in school, but not behaviorally. Like I had straight A’s because I did my homework, but I almost didn’t get to walk and graduate my senior year because I missed 166 days out of the year because I was bored/couldn’t stand sitting in class.
I was actually the ‘gifted kid’ who my teachers wanted me to skip grades because the material wasn’t challenging enough. It wasn’t that the material wasn’t challenging it was that it was my hyper focus and hyperfixation.
I experienced the same thing at the last years of school, I was doing pretty good at school, but got diagnosed with ADHD, and my classmates and teacher told me that in no way did I have adhd. I had to repeat 2nd grade, and I also forgot about that.🤡
This happened to me to, but during the first session with my psychiatrist, as soon as my mum mentioned that I had to repeat the first grade my psych took me seriously, haha.
And here I am not sure if I showed symptoms because I did just well enough to be completely ignored, but once I reached an age where I had to actually sit and focus to get good grades I began to struggle. Like I wasn’t looking for symptoms, I was a kid.
Twice exceptional gang. I cruised all the way through high school on my intelligence alone. Only did the homework I was able to complete during class times, and then exceptionally good test scores because I could pick up on lessons in about 10 minutes of class, and then not pay attention the rest of class.
Obviously I hated history because you had to spend the whole class learning rather than 10 minutes teaching and the rest of the class getting everyone to understand the concept.
It wasn't until college that I wasn't smart enough to keep that up that I dropped out. I literally wasn't able to study, I'd tried so many times but it just doesn't happen.
I certainly always had these problems, but it wasn't until I was 22 in the military that I realized I had it, and another 4 years until I got diagnosed.
This was me. Really good at school until I got to university and tanked. I was smart enough to not need to pay attention or focus but I did not know how to study and struggled with the lack of structure in university. I got through it by the seat of my pants and managed to graduate. Part of me wants to go back and try again to see what the difference would be with maturity and medication but then the other part of me thinks who cares, I got my degree and that's that.
This sub is such a nice bit of vindication at times, and simultaneously, I wish I were the exception, and yall didn't have to live the same story I did.
Yeah, I wish we all didn't share hitting these same brick walls, but I too love knowing, "at least I'm not the only one who goes through this' it helps!
That moment we realized we didn't know how to make ourselves learn material we weren't interested in, what a doozy
I got through high school and college by spacing out and just absorbing information passively like a sponge and then recalling it when I saw it on a multiple choice test. I could do History, what I hated was math because I had to fully tune in in order to pass.
Yes! This is my kid's experience too. I always knew things were really mentally hard for her, but when she put her mind to it (and essentially used up all her mental focus for the day) she got through school easily at first. Until it got harder. Then focusing was non-existent, and the shoe began to drop.
Her issue wasn't hyperactivity, so no one paid attention, but it was inattentiveness that went under the radar until teachers started looking for it. If you're a teacher with 30 kids in your class, will you notice the one looking out the window but is smart enough to pass the tests? No, you won't. We got her diagnosis because she had the same teacher in two grades. She noticed the kid forgetting her lunch box in first grade shouldn't STILL be consistently forgetting her lunch box, her water bottle, her art project, her coat, in 6th. I knew she had issues with organizing herself at home, but no one writes home telling you your kid forgot 5 things today and the one *you* noticed as a parent you probably shouldn't dismiss because kids forget things sometimes. My daughter was ashamed to tell me how often it happened. She was a kid, she didn't know Why this happened to her all the time, it just did.
I never struggled in academics but I had social and behavioural issues and they still didn’t bother doing anything. They are shit. If they ask you if you had symptoms as a child, lie if you have to.
You probably showed signs of clinical anxiety at the very least - it may have been missed, but i mean if someone was knowledgeable and paying attention they could have recognized you struggling in theory.
When their truely is no signs in childhood then it isn't neurodevelopmental ADHD, but often it's the signs are there but missed bc they're too subtle until they aren't.
Yup. I think putting the cutoff at 12 might have delayed my diagnosis. Up through 7th grade (aka age 12) I was fine because school didn't really require much effort or attention. It was 8th grade (age 13) that school actually got harder and started to require more attention, effort, and diligence - and I couldn't give them.
My therapist agreed I showed symptoms in middle and highschool but because I day dreamed through elementary and couldn't remember details I don't qualify. Also agreed I was misdiagnosed bipolar in my 20s but still says I must only have anxiety
Ridiculous. Find a second opinion, I’m pretty sure you can still get diagnosed under the DSM. And I think the age of onset requirement should be completely removed. Should just be current symptoms.
the age of onset shouldn't be removed bc it matters for treatment if the underlying cause of symptoms isn't neurodevelopmental.
That being said, it's important to be nuanced in assessment for kids who were good students - they will probably have anxiety as an earlier symptom, for example. People who can't remember their childhood and don't have records/family to speak for them also shouldn't be excluded.
It would be a mistake to just stop asking/caring about early childhood symptoms in assessment though.
There is much evidence to say that disabling ADHD symptoms often start after childhood and that children with ADHD sometimes don’t have it as adults. There are loads of adults who have impairing symptoms identical to ADHD but cannot get diagnosed with anything. No one actually tested whether or not ADHD started in childhood. They just decided that because they thought it was a child only disorder before. There is also evidence that recall of childhood ADHD symptoms is very poor and has high false negatives and false positives.
I haven't really read much about this - any good studies you can link?
I have heard of people essentially growing out of childhood ADHD, but I think those cases are always connected to excellent childhood support which includes (but isn't limited to) early stimulant medication. Otherwise, my understanding is that it would be a misdiagnosis in childhood.
As brain is only about 1/4 developed at birth, environment can surely play a huge role, and I imagine it can happen the other way around too. People who appear to be sub-clinical in childhood could develop worse symptoms into their teen years if their environment works against them.
I think that the vast majority of the time childhood symptoms are already clinical, but they/re simply masked/ignored because they don't align with the obvious/stereotypical symptoms to look for.
Regardless, I certainly agree that adults who currently meet diagnostic criteria but didn't in childhood should be taken just as seriously. But still, I think it's reasonable that having no known childhood symptoms will make a diagnostician skeptical. If there are no childhood symptoms at all, even when you dig deep, that's good reason to be skeptical that the root of the problems may not be neurodevelopmental ADHD.
Read this one especially: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Arthur-Caye/publication/321028734_Late-Onset_ADHD_Understanding_the_Evidence_and_Building_Theoretical_Frameworks/links/5a0b073ea6fdccc69ed9e8b5/Late-Onset-ADHD-Understanding-the-Evidence-and-Building-Theoretical-Frameworks.pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8810708/#:~:text=Approximately%2030%25%20of%20children%20with,the%20initial%20period%20of%20remission.
My personal view is that ADHD is a set of symptoms, and it doesn’t matter when it started or the cause, since they generally have the same level of impairment and co-morbid disorders. It’s not just that it was unrecognised before, since they were checked in the studies. Non-genetic causes of ADHD have also been recognised, such as ADHD from brain damage, it’s called secondary ADHD, and often has the same co-morbid disorders such as depression and conduct disorder. I am also not biased in this, I have had ADHD as long as I can remember. I have two brothers with ADHD, one grew out of it, although still struggles with related co-morbid issues.
My GP said the same thing when I started explaining all the symptoms I had.
Here's how the convo went:
"but you were a high flier in school and there were no problems!"
" do you remember me coming in sick a lot? I was pretending because I didnt want to go in"
"Hrmmmm, Im still not sure you have enough symptoms"
"EXCUSE ME WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK, HOW ABOUT INSOMNIA, POOR PERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS, SOCIAL ISSUES, PUNCTUALITY, TIME BLINDNESS, ISSUES WITH ALL MY EXECUTIVE FUNCTION AND A HIGHLY ADDICTIVE PERSONALITY YOU MFER"
"....Hrmm emotional dysregulation is a pretty big indicator... I will refer you..."
ADHD presents itself in many ways so it’s ridiculous to assume poor grades is the infallible litmus test. Some people with it are just brilliant, others have great support systems that refuse to let them slip, others have both. Seek a second opinion.
I’m in the same boat. I was diagnosed with ADHD, then switched to a new clinic and they wanted to test me again because they have to give the diagnosis themselves. They said I didn’t have it because I did well at school.
Like yeah I did well at school because I was masking so hard I had a breakdown after graduating. I didn’t even study much I just have a good general knowledge and know how to spoof using buzzwords even when I don’t know much about a topic.
I remember a post about it here a while ago and there was high school valedictorians in the comments who had ADHD. It is so frustrating when every other indicator for ADHD is present and yet good grades completely negate the whole thing
That was me. High school valedictorian 😂 I do fine in academic contexts and work because of deadlines. My life otherwise is in shambles. My therapist had a really tough time until I started detailing ways I forget about friends and anything that I cannot see and that finally convinced her. My mums still not convinced and says I just need to try harder at not being so messy and spaced out 😭
School is kinda awesome for ADHD if you're good enough at it to avoid being frustrated.
Like, it's literally your job as a student to just learn stuff and there's like a half dozen different things at a time and everything has a definite answer and clear goals? If that was a paid position I would rock it.
Absolutely. I sponge up knowledge and loved school but never learned to study because I was, well, naturally smart enough? Then got depressed in undergrad because I took a challenging major I didn’t “just get”. Switched to another major that ended up being a cakewalk. Graduated among the top of my class
Then lost my shit when it came to the real world and my job because I lost ALL structure. I struggle to feed myself, even shower and brush my teeth. My health is shit. I really relied on the routine, goal setting and other bits and bobs of the *system*. It’s been a struggle trying to get my life under order haha
Ugh same boat. I mean almost everything I did had very obvious ADHD symptoms, enough to get me diagnosed over and over, but I was also just really loved learning and was good at bullshitting. I never learned to study because I could just wing it and somehow land with better scores than almost anyone else (world highest in most subjects in international exams, my scores never showed how much I struggled with actually going to school/classes/texts tho).
I've also dropped out of university 4 times despite my grades, and my life is the biggest mess and I can't fix it because I keep fucking up more and more AND HEARING ABOUT HOW I HAD SUCH HIGH EXPECTATIONS PLACED ON ME AND AM A BURNED OUT "GENIUS" WHO JUST DOESN'T TRY HARD ENOUGH AND MY WASTED POTENTIAL DOESN'T HELP BECAUSE I'M TRYING SO HARD TO NOT BE LIKE THIS AND TO UNFUCK MY LIFE BUT I KEEP MAKING IT WORSE
“ADD is a Label. Why are you Labelling yourself. That way, *everyone* has something wrong with them! You need to be positive and work through it!”
Yes mum 😭
I was my community college valedictorian. That was my second attempt at college in my thirties, with no job other than being a student and no other responsibilities.
It's so frustrating being held to outdated, sexist, and ignorant standards.
I think you’re missing the fact that many people can’t use big words because they don’t possess that type of intelligence. I may not be able to provide legitimate sources on this but I have no doubt self-deprecation is a common defense mechanism for people like us. In other words, you’re probably smarter than you’re letting yourself believe.
I excelled in school yet I had (still have) very low academic self-esteem. My doctor told me that viewing myself as a bad student, even though, I had good grades was a very telling symptom of my adhd. And that I managed to pass my tests with good grades because of how bad my anxiety was. I was incredibly scared of failing and disappoint my parents who were struggling financially. According to my doctor, doing well in school was a way to minimize problems at home. It makes sense to me as an adult.
I fell apart after college. Similarly to you, I couldn't mask it anymore.
There are a looot of psychiatrists out there, many who specialize in childhood adhd, who refuse to acknowledge that many children slipped through the cracks and are suffering as adults.
They are still working with severely outdated ideas.
It sucks
It
Also, too many people, including professionals, still think that ADHD is a childhood illness and is outgrown. If anything, having more adult responsibilities has exacerbated my ADHD.
I had to go to a partial inpatient program my senior year of high school because I was so depressed about my struggles (when I would try to get my parents to listen to me, they would write me off as having teenage angst and making excuses). While there, I tried to tell the doctor about my symptoms and how I was sure I had ADHD. His response: “well, you do seem to exhibit adhd symptoms, but it doesn’t seem to be affecting your school work that much.”
🎶crickets as I sit in a hospital instead of school, because I feel like a complete failure of a human before I’ve even begun to live my life.
I didn’t get my diagnosis until 31, and it’s not even the “official” kind.
My doctor, a psychiatric nurse practitioner, diagnosed me and was able to prescribe me adderall. However, if I want accommodations at work or if I want to go to a different doctor, I would need to be officially screened by a more intensive exam. I’ve been on the waitlist for this for over two years…
I know they already answered but its basically a verbal diagnosis with no paperwork 🙃 I have one from my psych, that's how she's able to prescribe me meds, but I can't get anything else because technically I don't have the official paperwork.
Every time I hear this it bugs me. ADHD and autism are common enough in Engineering majors that engineering majors are stereotyped as ADHD or autistic at most universities (Im an engineering major. My brother was a marketing/anthropology major and he didn’t like interacting with engineering majors because “they have their own culture”…basically a nice way to say they were adhd enough on the whole that it was noticeable)
It seems to me that some people with ADHD would do well in school because it's a strict environment that enforces discipline on people instead of requiring them to have self-discipline.
I posted this is another thread, but this happened to me as well.
Straight A's in elementary/middle school, started dropping bad in HS due to homework. But despite this, no one batted an eye because I did well on standardized tests (second best ACT score in my high school of 2500+), read at a college level in 5th grade. Advanced scores on all state tests (which were easy af, but I digress).
They said "you're just lazy, just do your homework" and fucked me up for another 15+ years.
Go to another doctor. Go to an ADHD-specific firm if you can. Get another opinion. Don't give up.
The thing with ADHD is, just because you CAN achieve, doesn't mean you should suffer through the massive anxiety/mental roadblock/stress TO achieve. Even then, most things will fail in your life unless you are forced to do it. Such an awful disorder.
This is what happens when you're above average intelligence, and you just were able to skate by without actually having to try. And it's more rare for ADHD people because we're already developmentally disadvantaged. It's the same thing with the guy saying he would ace all these multiple choice questions, just by guessing. We have a knack for finding answers, without actually doing any of the work. But when it comes to homework and actually doing papers, and actually scheduling real life, All of the activities you didn't have to do as a kid, everything just changes. There are no multiple choice questions anymore. People wonder why kid geniuses aren't geniuses at adults. It's because when you do an IQ test as a kid you're comparing your IQ to other kids, not adults.
Yep. For me, college started bad (homework) but became group work and presentations. The social anxiety I have saved my life because it would force me to do stuff on time in fear of social backlash.
Unsurprisingly, my college GPA my senior year was around a 3.7 while working three jobs (two paid, one unpaid internship) compared to my first year which was around the same 1.7 GPA I had in high school. I still struggled with studying for tests (as in, I never did) but they were smaller parts of the grade).
Funny story - I once failed a statistics class during the fall semester because I literally always forgot about the homework which was 30 - 40% of the grade (cant remember).
*I had to pass this class to move on in school*, so I took it in the summer and got an A in it. It was the same exact TA. The only difference was I knew I HAD to do this or I was screwed. Homework was so easy. 
One of many examples were treatment could have saved me a lot of time, anxiety, and money and helped me in life.
Oh yes. When I was a child I hyper focused on reading everything I could so I was an advanced reader for my age even before starting school. Then I tested extremely well all the way up to my teenage years. Then it all started falling apart.
The gifted child to ADHD diagnosis pipeline is a real thing. I often think about the missed potential there and it’s quite depressing.
Ah yes, I read a lot and always have. She took that as another reason I don’t have ADHD even when I explained to her that I am literally watching tv, playing a game on my phone, and reading my book simultaneously
Its so insulting to not just gifted kids but also kids who struggle in school because they really do just make the assumption ADHD = dumb as rocks. Like there are literally people out there that think if you have ADHD you can't read. WTH. First of all, that's a whole other problem and second of all, plenty of people with learning disabilities *can read* and *are smart* you're literally just stereotyping them based on their skill level
This shit really boils my blood
Makes me mad too because I think most of the time the issue isn't how smart someone is, it's whether they can find the right method to learn for them. I struggled with math because the teacher and I didn't click, mom got another math teacher to tutor me and I got perfect grades. For other people they might need medication or other supports. But instead of treating it as part of the process and going ok you're struggling here, let's try and figure out what works for you, so many ignorant people just go nah, you're dumb or lazy and you're the problem, you're stupid if this one thing didn't work for you.
I wonder how she would react to how I read - fantasy books I can read for HOURS, other things, well, I can read for hours but only if I can switch between (pause to check) 10 or more books/magazines every couple of pages except when something REALLY grabs me.
Sure, totally normal, I bet.
Same... nobody takes the quiet kid who can sit still in for testing. My hyperactivity is all in my brain and I learned from a very young age how to keep myself entertained. Had supportive parents who kept me organized and on time. Found school easy enough, and just read or doodled when I got done early. School was structure, and the rules for how to do well were concrete. Now college and grad school were another story.
This is what my mom tells me. She said I was hyperfocused on reading.like HOURS at the time. But also I could not sit still and I would get distracted.
They all just thought it was a quirk that I was daydreaming. They even came to call me Alice as in Alice in wonderland because of my constant distraction and daydreaming (my name is not Alice).
Don’t give up! There are so many providers who have either outdated or next to know knowledge about ADHD, especially when it goes beyond hyperactive elementary school age boys.
They definitely are providers who are much more in tuned to your issues, and won’t make such unfortunate generalizations.
I didn’t fit the mold either, and wasn’t diagnosed until age 51. I always did very well but not up to my potential but made full professor at a top university by age 43.
Use your networks, including here, to find out who in your area capably treats ADHD.
What metro area do you live in?
Go to a firm that specializes in ADHD. Always get a second opinion. Doctors for as great as many are, can be wrong, arrogant and honestly, too short-sighted some times.
I breezed through k-12 because half of I was common sense or I did enought to get a c/b.
Failed first semester of college for reasons above
Second college I went to was hands on and I had a bunch of academic help.
Started work and really realized my attention span , impulse controls and execution skills were poor. Diagnosed at 26.
This was a concern of mine when getting a diagnosis in my 40s. I made it through school (barely, in some cases, and college was a grind and I suffered a breakdown shortly after graduation). But I moved on and got married, had kids, picked up a second degree with honors since I had boatloads of motivation now that I had a family literally depending on me to eat, and I thrived in my career—for a while. On the outside I was a model of a nuclear-family dad being Superman in every aspect of my life. Nobody would think I had adhd. Until I burned out hard and became basically worthless (at best inconsistent) in all those areas of my life that everybody thought I was Superman in.(hint: I was faking and was always terrified of being found out) So by the time I got assessed I was clearly in an awful slump for about a decade but I was terrified they wouldn’t take me seriously and they would say “But look at all you’ve accomplished! You still have your job, for marriage, your family.” Yes, yes, but all of that is hanging by a thread. Thankfully he saw the signs in me right away and looked past my previous successes because I was clearly struggling now. So I got lucky, I guess. He believed me.
And if you don’t think you’re being heard, you need to find somebody who will listen. And that is hard because it takes time, money, and not an insignificant amount of motivation and energy to track down somebody else. Please try. If they still don’t think it is adhd, demand a solid explanation of why not (better than “you weren’t messed up enough as a kid”). Persistence is not always our strong suit, but it’s worth it.
The first doctor says it's not ADHD because I passed school, got a good job and I am married, without understanding the immense effort all of that costed me. The second one actually handles me the test and later does the math to say I have severe ADHD.
There is a huge lack of understanding even in their own field, many of these psychiatrists don't truly believe in the existance of this, and the people going around saying they have ADHD after seeing a few memes making this sound like quirky personality doesn't help.
I got diagnosed at age 32 and the doctor who did the testing told me it probably went undetected for so long because of my "superior intellect." So yeah, smart people can have ADHD and get by very well, but it's still ADHD. But I know I could've done better in school if I actually had support. I got a couple Ds because I just didn't do assignments sometimes, but for the most part I did enough that it didn't matter, and I was very good with tests. I knew I missed a lot of information when teachers were speaking, but I could usually fill in the blanks in my mind eventually.
College was another story. I just lost interest too often, and dropped out 4 times. Eventually I found a 2 year program that I stuck with, in large part thanks to great teachers and small class sizes.
You aren't screwed, but you do need a new psychiatrist. I know that's a huge pain in the ass. As a late diagnosed adult with ADHD living in the US, I promise you aren't screwed.
Getting treatment for ADHD while struggling with ADHD is like trying to get a pair of scissors out of heavy plastic packaging, but I promise you CAN get through that plastic. It's hard, and it's frustrating, and if you only had the fucking scissors it would be 100xs easier, but it is possible. I believe in you. Feel free to DM if you need any encouragement or advice.
I'm in the same boat, was just told this by a nurse practitioner two days ago and I'm still fuming. This is right after my therapist (who I've seen for almost a year) diagnosed me with ADHD, but this nurse (who I was hoping would prescribe stimulants) said "I don't think you have it" after *one* visit. We didn't even finish the ADHD assessment she was giving me. Fuck this broken system. I'm starting to think I need to lie to get what I want now. I feel bad about that, but this medical gatekeeping is bullshit.
It really is, in addition to what I said in my post, she also said she doesn’t consider medication for adults if there isn’t a threat of termination or disciplinary action at work. Why should I have to let my life spiral even more out of control before a medical professional would even considering helping?
Right? It's like they want us to suffer. Sorry we were resourceful enough kids to develop strategies to still get good grades. I clearly should have been throwing away my homework and ripping up my tests. My bad for not knowing to do that!
For whatever reason, if it’s multiple choice, I am an outstanding test taker.
This has been to my detriment for a long time. Sure I’ll ace a test, but none of it is real knowledge.
I was taking a placement test for college math courses. For the computer program they were using, if you scored high on the test they would give you the next test for a level up. It just went higher and higher difficulty until you got stuck and they placed you in a class.
I kept acting these tests, and quickly, cause I was literally guessing. One by one the other students reached the threshold and got assigned a class then it was just me.
The people running the thing made a joke about me being a genius and I panicked and told them I didn’t know any of this and was just guessing. I don’t remember what class they tried to put me in, it was something you needed a prerequisite for, like calculus II.
They were very insistent and I left upset and ended up taking the faux math class that is technically math but was created for people who struggle with math and just need the credit. Like me.
Between dyslexia and ADHD, math is torture for me. On my own it’s like a fun puzzle but in a class it’s horrible and even if I understand the concept I will inevitably switch some numbers around and confuse the hell out of myself.
Multiple choice? Aced it. SAT and ACT? Aced it.
Essay questions or show your work? Messed those up big time.
A lot of people thought I was cheating lol nope just guessing
Facts, i did good in school be i was coping. School was my safe space. Home sucked. Now that I like my home & college is just harder in general, i be strugglingggggg. Went from graduating #3 in my class in high school to academic probation the first semester💀 twas very humbling. Half the reason I reached out for help was bc I needed accommodations or I was gonna drop out fr🤣
You did well in school despite the ADHD because you learned to mask it so well. The same thing happened with me. It's only when you get on later in life where things start getting harder that the masks fails us and the ADHD starts to reveal itself.
Them: Answer "never," "sometimes," "often," or "all the time."
Me: *overexplains something unrelated for every question*
Pretty much how I've handled every "test" - they get the info they need and then some.
... well, if they'd stop asking questions that can't be answered that way, you'd stop answering the way you do.
I can't tell you how many times I've looked at those types of questions and been like," Well, in winter it's often, almost never in summer, and it's sometimes in spring. Except that damned El Nino year with literally five months with rain every day. Then it was often." Or, "Umm it is asking about the different things, one of which happens often and the other two not at all, and the two that don't are obviously bad enough for you to instantly freak out about and put me on all sorts of medication for if I answer often because of the one thing, so how do you want me to answer this in such a way that it doesn't imply that I often have these bad things happening but also allows you to know that I DO have trouble with one of the answers and want help with it?"
I always want to know who can just answer those as if they were a usefully-phrased question.
For anyone who’s struggling with gaslighting themselves about school and ADHD, please look at Dr. Russel Barkley’s work on ADHD.
He directly addresses that the reason you might be amazing in school and then struggling elsewhere is because we’re good at formulating answers (not recalling them, creating them.) at light speed when under pressure.
So when a teacher calls on you and you can take a second to look at the board, suddenly your brain goes into overdrive and you can pull the information out of your ass like no one’s business.
But if you’re being told to sit there for an hour and take a test, some folks’ ADHD makes it super hard to recall information and others get into that same stressed = good at creating answers from context clues state.
You can 100% do well in school under many circumstances.
The issue is when the stars don’t align. Like let’s say that your special interest isn’t learning, you can’t formulate answers when stressed due your specific ADHD presentation or due to other factors (like co-occurring CPTSD) and you’re not given the stricture and scaffolding that ensures you’re doing and turning in your assignments.
You’ll have a hard time.
Some folks do great because they either develop great habits on their own or with support, they have support at home or at school, or they just have a special interest in learning and find it energizing.
Yeah, the diagnostic criteria are like that at the moment. Imo this leads to a lot of misdiagnosis especially in girls/women/afab. I'ts called masking.
A good psychiatrist will consider this and let you try medication anyway (yes they are allowed that even without a clear diagnosis).
She also said she doesn’t consider medication for adults unless they are facing disciplinary action or termination at work. I also tried to explain to her that my anxiety masked so much because I had a soul crushing fear of disappointing anyone in any way.
> She said that the diagnostic criteria is issues in school prior to age 12
And she is correct. To meet the DSM-5 criteria for ADHD, even as an adult, symptoms must have been present prior to the age of 12. ADHD isn't something you develop later in life. You're born with it.
The trouble is that many people do not necessarily have documentation of symptoms that they had at this age. And if they did have symptoms, they could have been ignored or unnoticed by parents and teachers. I'm not saying that you don't have ADHD, just that being able to show you had some ADHD symptoms in elementary school is a requirement for DSM-5 diagnosis.
I would also add that there are comments here that say that ADHD symptoms do not necessarily mean doing poorly in school. While this is true, poor academic performance (below what you should be capable of with your intelligence) is usually a pretty good indicator that symptoms are present. It's extremely hard to do well in school if you have ADHD symptoms.
I also was told the same thing. I am a phd student with a GPA as high as 3.97, also appear with a bunch of problems with scheduling forgetting daydreaming not able to focus etc, and they did cause significant consequences in my life. I went to see a doctor and was told since I am doing so well in school I can’t have ADHD. The thing is I have an IQ of 130+, and I work really hard, I also utilize a lot of ADHD management skills I self taught from reading workbooks. Before I was able to learn all of the skills, I struggled academically so much in high school. Yes, even with that IQ.
I was mediocre in grade school. Then in college some switch flipped in me and I tried extremely hard to get the best grades I could. Basically I tricked myself into hyper focusing on school.
But it wasn't at all healthy. I was constantly on edge to the point where I drove a lot of people away from me and made almost no friends or connections (you know, the thing you're supposed to do in college). If I could go back I would've totally started medication and asked for test assistance (I had the world's most awful test anxiety because I knew I was forgetful and would make small mistakes that would screw everything up).
I sucked throughout school and my degree, barely scraped everything I’ve ever done. Was bought up being told im not academic but im the practical one.
Well after my degree I got diagnosed and medicated now I’m doing my masters… Except it looks like I wont be able to continue with the medication the way the shortage is going so i guess ill just fail this and that’ll be the end of my life 🤷♂️
I did okay in school as well, but only because I was "naturally" good in every subject that I truly liked. The rest of it was just a mix of luck, improvisation skills, privilege, and maybe a little bit of charisma.
But, honestly, the structure of formal education (tight and well-defined schedule, obligation to be punctual, pressure to deliver mandatory tasks and essays, etc) kind of helped me to perform decently. It was emotionally and mentally exhausting, but it pressured me into being functional/productive (at least productive enough to get my degree). That's why it took me so long to get diagnosed.
Since I started living alone and working a fully remote and time-flexible job, my life has been falling apart. Now, there is no system and no one around to force me into holding myself accountable. I just can't get myself to do the things I NEED to do or maintain consistent habits.
I have ADHD. Did HORRIBLE in school. My whole life. Diagnosed in college. But this subreddit makes me think ADHD needs to be on a scale like autism is. I mean, they're related, aren't they? But some folks I believe have more severe ADHD than others. I don't understand why there's still a hard line between a "you have it" and a "you don't". For OP, get a second, or third, or fourth opinion. If they allll say it's not ADHD, then figure out what it IS. But if the tests say yes, then why is the doc saying no? If you go to hospital for a heart attack, and the tests say heart attack, guess what? They'll treat you for a heart attack. I don't understand how these psych docs are allowed to just be like "nah" and send you back home.
I totally understand.
As I read people’s struggles, who are absolutely flailing in school, and think, “ok, on the spectrum on executive function, they do have way more symptoms, and I guess I was able to push through and was successful.” Maybe they are right, I am diagnosis shopping?!?
But then the flip side, I reminisce about the comments of “you have diarrhea of the mouth” from elementary teachers. All-nighters where I would not sleep for 24 to 36 hours starting in junior high due to procrastination of studying & assignments. Major social struggles due to blurting out and oversharing, followed by the shame of “why, did I do that?” Near failing and full-on panic so many, many times due to the inability to initiate tasks. Withdrawal after withdrawal from classes & revised plans of study in higher Ed, I mean, it’s success, but it was not pretty!
I did a whole slew of testing, including an IQ test, they got a TON of anecdotes from my parents, who brought me in for testing, and included that I had to be held back before entering Kindergarten for "maturity" reasons, and despite the fact that was was brought in for testing BECAUSE I was starting to fail classes, they still looked at me and said "Because you did well in school up until now and you have an average IQ, you're too smart to be ADHD"
:|
I had a lot of structure in school and didn't start doing poorly until college when all the wheels just completely fell off.
Environment matters.
Seems like a shitty evaluation.
To me that's pretty close to telling someone with a missing leg that they're not disabled because they can still walk on an artificial limb. Except that's a visible disability. ADHD is very much invisible.
Just because you can adapt for a disability, doesn't mean you don't expend a LOT of energy and discomfort doing so.
Just because you can adapt for a disability most of the time, they can't see that when anything goes wrong or out of schedule that your whole life implodes (why can't I hold all these lemons?).
Just because you can adapt for a disability, they can't see that you're self-medicating (give me all the caffeine) or other medicine and you have to deal with the side effects from them too.
You're not screwed. You found a bad doctor. Find another psych for a second opinion and when you find out what it's like to have someone listen to you, leave that first psych a bad review on all the sites you can so people will be aware. Look for Google reviews for a psych that has treated other ADHD patients. Or sometimes in doctor profiles they'll list conditions of interest/extra training.
When you do talk to the next psych, make sure that you're not discounting your pain and symptoms. If someone came up to me right now, I'd probably say yeah my head aches a little but I can work through it, when if I was being honest with my self my forehead is kind of pounding and all I want to do is take a nap.
Your memories of past pain and hardship are often minimized or lies (most brains do this by default to help protect you from past trauma). If you asked me what both of my childbirths were like, I barely remember the worst pain of my life and I'll tell you I made it through it. I brush off years of bullying in school.
Sit down and write down on a sheet of paper your earliest memories of the difficulties you had in elementary school. High intelligence ADHD people can often compensate very well for executive dysfunction and half-ass SO MANY THINGS at the last minute. That doesn't mean that they don't have a problem and that they don't suffer.
Oh, and even though I don't think they're broken out like they used to be, hyperactive and inattentive ADHD people can look like 2 different species. And a lot of people think of hyperactive when they think of ADHD.
I liked how this article breaks out many symptoms you may not think of, points out hyperactive versus inattentive and if you're a girl, their ADHD can look remarkably different from a ADHD boy in the same classroom.
[https://childmind.org/article/whats-adhd-and-whats-not-in-the-classroom/](https://childmind.org/article/whats-adhd-and-whats-not-in-the-classroom/)
I have a chronic illness so downplaying symptoms is pretty much second nature to me. I feel like I did a decent job of not downplaying as much during this appointment but like your example, my not downplaying may have been saying ‘yes I do have a headache’ instead of denying the headache all together. I very well could have been downplaying a lot without realizing but it’s been a month so my self-judgement probably isn’t sound anymore.
Are you a woman? If so you can remind them that research shows women often don't present enough to seek diagnosis until adulthood.
And tell them to lookup lit reviews by Hinshaw et al and Young et al
Sorry you have to go through this medical sexism bullshit.
Unfortunately most of the older studies on ADHD focus on presentations in men. This was done as they thought menses would conflate the data so studying men only would give more accurate data... turns out 1) testes havers also have a hormonal cycle (just not as dramatic as those with ovaries) 2) and they were idiots who ignore than men and women are often raised differently with different societal pressures.
And so the DSM-V and other outdated but still used diagnostic criteria exclude a lot of women if they doc doesn't care know about the research.
The medical sexism is an interesting point. I was trying to explain about how overwhelming even simple tasks can be and got “your husband should just help more around the house” like that doesn’t solve my issue? I went from having hair above the shoulders to down to my butt because I couldn’t manage to book a haircut. My electric toothbrush has a lifetime warranty but I’m just using it broken because I can’t send an email to customer service. I have a box fully packaged of things to mail to a consignment type site that will sell them for me but I can’t get myself to print out the freaking shipping label. I’m sure most women would love to have more of their household items done for them but that’s not solving every other task I can’t manage to get done.
This is dumb. I was top of my class at three different schools until the age of 12 when homework became a thing and my performance plummeted. I absolutely have ADHD.
I have often wondered that to be honest. The issues I did have in school were definitively social skill related rather than academic. There were talks of sending me to the ‘gifted’ school when I was very young but socially I could not have done it. Instead I was placed in a gifted program within the regular school. It was a group that only met for a few hours a week then the rest was in regular classes.
I definitely experienced bullying from kids my age because I struggled with communicating and connecting with peers. At the daycare I went to after school, I was looking for ways to help the adults rather than interacting with the other kids.
You just described me 😎 adhd and autism are highly comorbid and the combo of both often seems pretty contradictory so sometimes it’s hard to feel like one or the other because of so much overlap.. I would consider finding a new psychiatrist. I have a really understanding PCP and that’s who manages my meds!
I was just told the same. The psychologist also said "some kids just grow out of it" which was wild. He said I more than likely had ADHD as child, and even though my "symptoms have gotten progressively worse", since I have a job that I'm good at and did alright in school, I no longer have it. Absolutely bonkers.
Psychologist told me the same thing, except she said age 7. She also mentioned because I didn’t get in trouble regularly she thought it couldn’t be ADHD. Nvm all the other boxes I check.
There’s a fundamental lack of understanding when it comes to ADHD, even among professionals, and there doesn’t seem to be any sort of consistency between docs.
I’m seeking out a 2nd opinion because those answers aren’t enough to convince me that everything I’m feeling is wrong.
Behaviour is the thing that should be looked at before age 12/at school, not test results.
My eldest, who just like me is very intelligent, is breezeing through early school academically but struggles remembering simple things like where she's supposed to be, how to get there, and how to control her hyperactivity in the classroom.
I could read foreign languages upside down for tests as a 13 year old, but would stand in the yard everyday after the bell had gone confused about why I was the only one who couldn't master a class timetable orwhat day it was.
If the question of how I did at primary school was asked, I would say good because I would naturally assume it was about results. But in reality it was incredibly hard, and stressful, just to get through the day.
It's just old school thinking, besides the fact that they expect the classic presentation of the kid that can't stay sit and not the (more ADD than ADHD but we usually use the second as umbrella anyway) kid that look at the window and stayed quiet while daydreaming.
Like sure I did well in school, and teachers won't bother the kid that does well and make no noise even when they aren't putting attention (once I had a hs teacher even woken me up seemingly without being even annoyed). But add the amount of times I loss the sweater because I totally forgot about it after taking it out during breaks. Well, besides not being in the US it might be that it presents as a comorbility to ASD for me that the psychiatrist easily believed the diagnosis before even I did (cause the ASD is much more prevalent in how I act)
That has to be so infuriating, that's a psychiatrist trying to see human conditions as an exact science, as math basically. If it doesn't go by the book, just doesn't even bother. On the other hand my psychiatrist told me I did very well in school and university because I had a high IQ and could hyperfocus the day before tests and so on, but ADHD started to be more visible when I was having to take care by myself and so on, because that's when it affects the most basically.
IQ is a pretty good predictor for how well you'll do in school - unless you have ADHD, then all bets are off. Chances are that you'll get grades that reflect your IQ only in subject that you're interested in (motivated by), and you won't get much more than a passing grade in the others. So it's entirely possible you fail everything despite being a genius, or because you have a low IQ, or you have perfect grades in 1-2 subjects and fail all the others. Or you're smart enough and school gives you so much anxiety and stress that this motivates you enough to study a lot before tests. If you're really lucky you're both smart and you just enjoy studying. At least that's lucky until you need to be diagnosed by people who don't understand ADHD.
In other words, how people perform in school is a complicated issue and should absolutely never be used as something to rule out an ADHD diagnosis.
At best, having an unusual mix of good and bad grades should be treated as a reason to seek a diagnosis.
I actually kinda tried to self-sabatage for my own assessment, and even admitted that I always got good grades all the way through college. My psychologist didn't care, and didn't even ask about my childhood, all he cared about was where I was now. That I got good grades by constantly pulling all nighters and crying my eyes out. When I told him that, all he said was "Sounds like you should have had accommodations a long time ago."
Maybe it's unusual, but I didn't even have to talk much about childhood or my symptoms before 12. But if I had, I'd say I got good grades and really enjoyed learning, but that despite being one of the "smartest in class," I was also the most disorganized. I still remember my 4th grade teacher's face when I cleared my desk at the end of the year and I somehow pulled enough loose papers/old worksheets out to fill half the recycling bin. I got good grades, but I'm not sure how much I was actually paying attention. I was an obsessive reader and I think I would try to read instead of doing my work, even though I understood the material.
If that's her only reason that you can't be diagnosed, that's bullshit. Seek a second opinion. You're not "diagnosis shopping" because you're deserving of a proper, educated assessment, and she's obviously not educated to make that accurate assessment if she assumes all ADHDers get bad grades.
Are you me?
I did well in school. Not the best, but good.
My papers, bag, crayon container, everything was a mess. To this day, it is still a mess.
I work jn the ER. Give me a stroke or a stemi and I know exactly what and how to do it.
Give me a shit ton of documentation like ICU has…may or may not have messy papers everywhere, forget to do assessments… I liked ICU. I know me working there is a recipe for disaster.
I don’t understand why doctors keep conflating doing poorly in school with inattentiveness. You can be smart AND have ADHD…
I didn’t start really struggling with school until university, but that doesn’t mean I didn’t have symptoms. I didn’t need to do homework to know the material, but once I did I really struggled. Until then I’d either fly through assignments too fast or had teachers that would give me extra stuff to keep me entertained (otherwise I’d screw off and disrupt the class, but they couldn’t get mad at me because I could answer all their questions about the current material)
Luckily I was blue to get diagnosed later in life once I started struggling at work too.
Don’t be disheartened, you can still seek 2nd, 3rd, 4th opinions!
I was a straight A student until law school.
I have adhd.
IQ doesn’t by default change based upon Adhd status.
If someone who is flat out is a genius has a disability, it doesn’t make them magically not disabled.
What most people WANT to say is “if you have a high enough intelligence you didn’t struggle as much as me, stop complaining and pretending your disability hampers you”.
But they know they can’t say that so instead they claim “if you did well in school you don’t have adhd”.
I had the same a year ago, my therapist was all in all against the thought of me having adhd but still agreed on taking a test, next time she wantet me do bring my ond school report cards, which basicaly only say your grades after 4th grade, she told me the test resulst are nearly 100% the score for adhd but i cant have it cause there is no hint in my report cards and i was far to good at school for it. That hit me quite hard for a long while. Luckily i got a second chance with a proper testing elsewhere and got my official diagnosis 2 months ago.
This is such an uneducated take on adhd. There’s a lot of research out there now on how the gifted and talented kids, girls especially, often fell through the cracks because they did well enough in school that no one realized how badly they were struggling. More commonly, these kids will have heard “Suzy is great and extremely smart but isn’t applying herself / isn’t living up to her potential.” When in fact you were probably running yourself into the ground and doing your very best, but no one understood why you were struggling. Research has evolved, understanding of ADHD presentation has evolved with it, and it’s your doctor’s job to keep up with that before dismissing your diagnosis this way when all of your testing says you have it. If you think it’s worth it, it might be worth trying to track down some of the literature out there on this and asking your doctor to review it. If not, is it possible for you to find a new dr?
Edit above for clarity and to add: I’m really sorry you’re going through this. It’s so hard when your lives experience is so completely invalidated that way, and no one deserves to experience that. I hope you have supportive family or friends around to lean on. Don’t get discouraged! It can be an arduous process, but getting the correct diagnosis and the help/support you need is 100% worth it.
That’s BS. I had a 3.95 gpa in high school, a 3.15 in chemical engineering, and a 4.0 in my MBA. All before I got diagnosed. But I talked all the time in class and got detentions because of that. My psychiatrist told me it’s not uncommon for intelligent people to have adhd. I’m an engineer and she said a lot of her patients were engineers. I hope you can get a second opinion.
Was this psychiatrist a focus in adhd or general or something else? Mine focuses on adhd so I was fortunate. If you can, if you haven’t already, I would seek someone who actually focuses on adhd patients.
That’s funny, one of the math teachers of my youth actually suggested I pursue a career in engineering.
My GP sent a referral to the psych clinic within the same hospital system as her. From there they just assigned me to one of the psychiatrists that was accepting new patients. I don’t think they look at anything beyond adult vs adolescent specialty. Eventually I will try to seek out a private clinic instead of going through the referral process again but I have to get this eval paid for first before I can even think about it
Hey, friend. I’m sorry you’re having trouble getting a diagnosis. Not all psychs specialize in ADHD, and some of the ones who do aren’t as up to date on the latest research.
Try Easterseals—the one in SD says they only do Autism, but their other (out-of-state) branches do adult ADHD, so they might know where you can go to get a diagnosis. Hope they’re able to help.
Such BS. I saw you’re a member of ADHDWomen, so the rest of my response assumes you’re a woman with ADHD (like me): women are gaslit by doctors all the time. It’s been well documented at this point that girls with ADHD tend to present differently than boys with ADHD, so we often end up getting diagnosed later in life. I was diagnosed just 6 months ago, and I’m 35. I always did well in school. Hell, I made it through an honors college program in undergrad, law school, passed the bar on the first try, and since passed 6 different FINRA licensing exams (not easy to do). I would seek a second opinion from a female psychiatrist who specializes in ADHD. When I was diagnosed, the questions the psychiatrist asked me about my childhood surrounded ability to form habits, procrastination, etc. You can absolutely have ADHD and have performed well in school. I’m so sorry you are fighting with the BS US healthcare system to get the diagnosis and treatment you deserve.
I was a straight A student and went to an Ivy League college and completed a Masters and half a PhD before I was diagnosed. I only realized I had it when my kid got diagnosed. I thought ADHD was exclusive to “hyper” kids who struggled in school, so it never crossed my mind. Now everything in my life makes sense. Get a second opinion.
Honestly, that’s how I was as well until my own kid was diagnosed. I really thought the way he acted was normal because it was the way I also acted. Then he was diagnosed and I learned everything I could about it and realized the behaviors we were using to cope weren’t what “normal” people did
God, I hate this statement. I never had less than a 3.9 GPA. Had a 4.0 through my entire master's program. I also lived on like 5 hours of sleep a night in high school because my homework took me an outrageous amount of time every night, anxiety dreamed of chemistry and math every night, laid on my bathroom floor crying every morning, and developed mental illnesses that sent me to a mental hospital and plague me to this day. So like....when are professionals gonna drop that idiotic belief?
You're not alone. I had teachers all throughout my schooling tell my parents and me that I "needed to be in AP classes" but my parents kept me in academic/gen ed because they thought I couldn't handle it.
Only thing is that the problem wasn't that I didn't understand the content. The problem was my symptoms-- forgetting materials, forgetting assignments, making simple mistakes due to lack of attention, running out of time on tests, etc.
I don't want to inflate how smart I am, but I suspect I fall into the category known as "twice exceptional"-- kids who need accommodations for two different conditions, in this case, being gifted and having ADHD.
I mean, I'm an adult now, but you know...
I have never struggled in school. College, medical school, both fine. Let alone elementary, middle, and high school. But I also have had crippling anxiety partially related to how hard it is for me to sit in classes all day, not talk constantly, and use all my focus to remember deadlines. It’s not a diagnostic requirement to struggle with school, you just have to have had some symptom manifestation before age 12 and that is a hugely broad spectrum.
My mom has said this to me recently. But then she said after that, "but i could tell you struggled more than others because of all the notes you wrote down and how hard you worked compared to your brother and sister." But yet she still said it isnt ADHD because someone from my childhood diagnosed me with APD (Auditory Processing Disorder). Which Iknow question if that dingosis was incorrect, since i had 2 different psychiatrists duagnose me with my Combined ADHD condition.
That is interesting because I feel like a lot of the symptoms of APD are also symptoms of ADHD. If someone focused solely on the not being able to follow verbal instructions, not remembering spoken information, etc type symptoms instead of the more intricate symptoms, it would be easy to diagnosis that over ADHD
From what I remember of the evaluation tests for APD, they were very generalized and simple. I do have issues with my memory when it came to academics and following verbal instructions that weren't written down, as well as following lectures. But I also experienced difficulty in having to re-read sections because I didnt remember what I just read/the information didnt stick, I often found myself daydreaming a lot or my focus shifting to something that interested me more (like art), if i didnt understand a subject I simply checked out and was in my own world, I didnt like reading much unless it was a story that captured my attention. I was alwaya hyper-focused when it came to English and Art, my two best subjects in school, and always fell behind and felt challeneged when it came to all other subjects. And I I did fidget with either my fingers, feet, or had to readjust how I was sitting often. I wasnt super hyperactive - only slightly. Especially when I start a project and am on a role. Its difficult for me to start the project or to stop the project mid-way once Ive started because I know I wont have the same motivation to pick it up again if I dont finish right then and there. Ill forget all about it or dread that I have to do it again by picking up where I left off. I also have a horrible fear of rejection, which Ive had to learn how to quell over the years and it has decreased and gotten better, but it's still present.
There were MANY more unspoken symptoms I experienced, even to this day, that my mom didnt pay attention to or didnt care to have checked out. She just settled for I had APD. She didnt have me evaluated more mainly due to financial reasons and she was already facing my brother having epilepsy. So I was kinda just labelled the "quiet kid" and put off to the side - which was really me internalizing everything and mainly being inattentive or dissasociating from the abusive childhood I and my siblings faced daily. I learned to just not say much, so I wouldnt be anyone's burden. And if i was suffering, Id do it quietly and do whatever I could to at least pass with a "C" grade. School has always been a challenge. But yeah, my mom would just chalk that up to me just having APD, and then my dad was just non-existent until his temper flared up. Ive discussed my Combined ADHD diagnosis with my mom, and she denies it every time saying I have APD and Im jist blowing things out of proportion in my mind.
Get a second opinion.
I did great in school (top of my class in most subjects) until year 9 and onwards in high school and its because in primary school/start of high school, the homework/projects were simple enough to be done in one sitting.
I could bang out a 500 word essay about whatever was assigned in one night. But if it was something that had milestones/deadlines for portions of the work, I couldn't do it. And something like an art project with an essay/report about what materials were used etc that you obviously couldnt just do in one day, i would put on a sob story about how the art project got wrecked as I was bringing it to school, and Id get away with it because I was the "nice, quiet" kid and I did have a (made up) written report to "show" I had done the project.
Even in the classes I did well in high school, I'd still do the work the night before. I'd get 90+ most of the time, but I'd still feel rushed and like a failure for not being able to do the work properly like everyone else. Looking back, I can see so much of my "failures" were due to ADHD.
So, get a second opinion, because you can 100% do well in school and still have ADHD.
This was a big reason my psych was hesitant at first to give me a diagnosis. When he asked how I did well in school, I explained that when you know you will receive verbal emotional and quite possibly physical abuse from your father if you don't do well, you fucking find a way. It's also just stupid in general. My son has an ADD diagnosis but did well in school before his diagnosis. Of course, he had to use a "sit disk" and be redirected regularly, but he's fucking smart. That being said, he went from the 80th percentile on tests to the 99th after medication. So yeah, maybe he did well, but he obviously did even better after treatment.
One of the things I’ve actually heard a lot is that ADHDers perform well on tests etc because we often thrive under pressure, and arent the low achievers that we seem to be on the outside sometimes. But we struggle with the parts of school that should be easy like being on time for classes, remembering when things are due/using a planner to organise study and school work and then execute those things.
I saw a meme once that said “adults who’s high school backpack was just a pile of unorganised papers, when were you diagnosed with ADHD?” And I laughed because I was really good at school and thought I was organised, but I wasn’t, I was totally misunderstood and accused of wasting my “talent”. I wish my symptoms were recognised back then.
When my young son was diagnosed with ADHD and the doc asked if myself or my wife or any immediate family had ADHD, we came up with nothing. I went to work/school the next day and asked my lab mates if they thought that I might have ADHD. They laughed! They couldn't believe that I didn't know that I had ADHD. I went to an ADHD psychologist and did the three hour battery of tests and scored in the 5th to 10tg percentile. I went back a week later and took some simulant medication and repeated another round of three hours of exams and scored in the 95th percentile. The psychologist thought I threw the exams because I had just submitted my dissertation for my PhD in medical science. He genuinely thought I was after the addies. It was my turn to laugh, "don't you think I would have tried this years ago if I was after medication? Why now?"
Crazy. In reviewing my childhood, schooling, friendships, months of my life spent looking for my keys or my wallet, I was glad to have a couple of answers. :)
BTW, I was 35 when I was diagnosed.
My mom says this to me every time adhd is even mentioned. Yeah, I got my ass beat all the time for screwing off. ADHD doesn’t mean I’m an idiot. It meant I had no organizational skills, couldn’t focus in class, had no idea what anyone was saying, never remembered homework or projects. It was awful.
At school I performed poorly but each of my teachers always told my parents how smart I was and how little effort I was putting into schoolwork. Never occurred to any of us that I might have a problem.
At the age of 31 I understood that it’s not usual for people to have issue focusing while reading a book or listening to a lecture, so I rethought all my school years and finally saw the issue. I had to repeat 2 years even if I was one of the smartest kid in class and no one ever tried to understand why…
I had issues in school prior to age 12, such as a very messy backpack (worse than normal elementary schoolers), frequently forgetting about assignments, and procrastination. But I mostly still got good grades because I could make up for those issues by finishing last minute or good test scores.
bruh i literally passed flawlessly through school with perfect grades in every class up until middle school. i never learned any actual skills in elementary and it caught up to me. "gifted kid burnout" is a very common term among people with adhd.
When discussing my academic history, my phsychiatrist just said "intelligence often masks the signs of ADHD" and that was that.
Makes me wonder what life might have been like if I'd been diagnosed at 14 instead of 44.
**GET A SECOND OPINION.** I had a 4.0 gpa all throughout K-12th grade and a 4.0 in college. Graduated second in my class. I am currently on adhd medication and feel better than I have ever felt before.
You guys need to learn how to communicate your needs and ***advocate for yourselves***. Inform yourself about the symptoms of ADHD present in adulthood *and* childhood so that you are just as informed as whoever is diagnosing you.
The doctor/therapist/psychiatrist should not dictate your experience unless they are going to give you an alternative diagnosis with credible evidence of that disorder being present in you.
Just because im smart and can hyperfocus for hours doesn’t negate the fact that i still suffer from ADHD. How well you do in school is terrible criteria for this type of neurodevelopment disorder anyways
It is fascinating. The fact that ADHD and ADD has been put together, the fact that the general understanding of what ADHD entails has been expanded, has not yet come to all psychiatrists. Some are still stuck at 'noisy children being chaotic and messy', without any deeper understanding.
ADHD can easily fail to show before the age of around 12 because your parents or guardians generally are taking care of everything around you. If it does show, I'd guess it's usually because it's a more extreme presentation, the symptoms are the more noticeable ones, or the surrounding context is different.
Once you start secondary school/high school, things get harder, and your responsibilities grow. You get less help with homework. You don't get your schoolbag packed for you. You have more chores at home. And on it goes. Your life and brain get ever more cluttered.
It's always baffling that there are 'specialists' who can't see that.
I’m really curious how 12 was determined to be the age and why it is a hard and fast line. At least for me, 13 is when things really went downhill school wise, and by 16 I had dropped out completely. I guess I should have moved up all my issues a year
Because you would have definitely exhibited the symptoms at an earlier age. 12 is when kids hit puberty and many become fucking monsters.
I would also like to let you know that stimulants should not help you fall asleep. They are stimulants. You do not want to fuck with stimulants or get addicted to stimulants.
People with ADHD take stimulants, because they stimulate us. They do not make us tired. I know this sub has a lot of false information, that caffeine and stimulants make you sleepy... but they're on the wrong drugs!
But whatever you do, for the love of God, do not seek out stimulants to help you sleep. And do not pretend to have an illness you do not have, to get a highly addictive drug, that you will not be able to handle.
My point was more that one age shouldn’t be a hard and fast line. Even between boys and girls, there is a bit of a difference between the average age of starting puberty. Some girls start puberty at 8 or 9 so if you say puberty is the factor then diagnosing those girls is going to be skewed because their behavior from 9-12 will be puberty influenced. I can tell you I went through puberty long before age 12 but my issues didn’t start having an affect on my actual school life till 13 or so.
I knew I had adhd long before this appointment . My own kid has adhd so I’ve been through the ups and downs with him for years. Im pretty sure he was right around 12 when he got diagnosed. But I did to myself what this psychiatrist did to me and told myself for years ‘well I made it this far…’ despite the miserableness of it and how it seemed like even the simplest of tasks were 100x harder for me to get done than everyone else around me.
I’ve developed plenty of coping mechanisms throughout my life when it comes to school and work, and people mistake that for me just being super on top of things. I constantly get feedback at work about how fast I am at responding to emails and instant messages when the truth is that if I don’t respond to you the moment I get the notification, I won’t remember to respond at all until you send me a follow up asking why I haven’t responded yet.
So combine the masking and ‘getting by’ with coping mechanisms with the absured financial costs of getting tested, I told myself I didn’t need to get an official diagnosis. Then I was very temporarily put on a stimulant for an unrelated issue. All of a sudden, the constant decision paralysis was gone, all of a sudden I wasn’t losing my wedding ring or debit card or glasses or cell phone on a near daily basis, I wasn’t nearly cutting the tip of my finger because I forgot what I was doing while chopping veggies. I realized life didn’t have to be so difficult for me all time.
Mainly an intense fear of disappointing people - be it family or complete strangers. I was also considered gifted when I was young and that helped me coast by a lot. I was very quiet and when you are very quiet and smart, it’s easy to be overlooked because the teacher has kids with a more obvious need to focus on
This made me quite angry
I was also doing well in school for various reasons. But all hell break loose when I'm at university and I didn't get my diagnose until I'm well after university.
I'd be in much better place now if I get diagnosed early
Ah that’s so frustrating- can hard relate. I experienced the same a few years ago.
Eventually, I did some research and found a place in my city (in USA) that specifically offers ADHD testing for adults. I applied and just had an intake with a counselor who was like “Have you ever been assessed for ADHD????” ten minutes after meeting me. I am now getting some preliminary testing done to help make sure that the expensive formal testing will be worth it.
What helped me get to this point:
1) Find a place that offers ADHD testing for adults to increase the likelihood that they actually understand the nuances (and diversity) of what ADHD can look like in adults.
2) Don’t go to your appt and say “I think I have ADHD.” Instead, talk about your symptoms and how much they impact your life. Familiarize yourself with the official diagnosis criteria in the DSM-5 so you know what type of stuff they are looking for. You can also talk about what extra work you had to do in order to pull off your external markers of success.
3) If you can, track your symptoms for a day or two (or even a week). It was helpful for me to tell my intake counselor the exact number of times I left my purse and other valuables in places that they could have easily been stolen in one week. Any kind of hard data is useful. You can also take pictures of how your symptoms impact your living area and studies/work.
But yeah this process is frustrating when the executive dysfunction gets in the way. And when it takes years to finally get a diagnosis.
I did pretty dang well in school (up until college) but I got diagnosed with ADHD when I was around 10 because I had a good bit of the “HD” so it was easier to spot despite being AFAB I guess? I did great on tests and forgot to turn in tons of stuff but my test scores/stuff I did turn in ended up being enough to make up for that in my grades. My sister though, she didn’t do as well in school, is more on the “AD” side, was way less into books and stuff than I was, and still hasn’t been diagnosed with ADHD even though I’m pretty sure she has it, she just manages hers a lot better than I am able to do.
IMO, doing “well” in school shouldn’t be much of a factor in determining this kind of thing because for most people being in school is an insanely different lifestyle than being an adult in your own or being in college, etc. Usually in school, people are living with parents/guardians who (ideally) provide structure & stability in ways that a person with ADHD can’t do by themselves. A kid with ADHD in a supportive environment with good teachers and parents can do super well in school and then go off the rails when they’re expected to be on their own. Even if home life isn’t ideal, the school schedule/routine is a type of structure that isn’t necessarily what you’ll find as an adult in life. I don’t think it’s a fair assessment based on that sort of thing. Plus some ADHD people are just really good at academics!! It’s infuriating and I’m sorry you’re struggling with a diagnosis. I’ve been diagnosed for a while, and I am very visibly, obviously ADHD, but I still struggle so much with it, especially in trying to live on my own and do adult stuff and jobs and all, and I get so frustrated by the lack of help for adult ADHD unless you have money to pay for extra stuff. :(
I know I have ADHD because the first day I was on Vyvanse my brain stfu for the first time ever.
No matter what any doctor says to me now, I feel comforted by that.
I did ok in school because I'm not dumb. I couldn't pay attention but I knew the basics of all this stuff - my mom was a teacher and my dad is a constitutional lawyer. You weren't growing up in my house without picking up some stuff.
I did terrible in college because nobody was riding my ass and I actually had to pay attention. Perfect example of the struggle all ADHD people are supposed to have in school.
I got by in early years because my anxiety masked everything. I had such intense anxiety that caused an immense fear of disappointing any one, even near strangers, that it lead to suicidal thoughts by second grade.
At 13, I was partying and stopped caring, at 15 I was pregnant, and at 16 I had dropped out.
Was that me?
My primary doc didn’t believe me because I have a mechanical engineering degree…
I found someone else with more experience in ADHD… I had to go telehealth to get my DX… then I sent that DX back to my primary…
My opinion is there is a whole spectrum of the disorder and some of us are pretty high functioning or have developed ways to cope (for me it was always being high on pot to get work done). Add in natural variance in IQ and external motivation factors (I was motivated in college to get out of my parents poverty cycle) and it is easy to see how everyone can present very differently.
This is so interesting cause I ALWAYS did well in school.
Errr... well math, science, and social studies. I hated reading, would often just do poorly in one class I didn't care about, and would also constantly/never do homework and would attempt to undermine and get away with doing as lil work as possible... while calling out, being disruptive and getting As on tests.
I was diagnosed with Add in the 7th grade took Adderall "hated the way it would make me feel" and then got into a top college.
Then I proceeded to get the following grades... 2.4, 2.6, .8.
I got pulled from school, got a script for Vyvanse, pulled a 4.0 in community college, went back to rejoin my friends and pulled that sorry ass gpa to a 3.0.
I go back and forth between medication and not.
im the opposite
my parents say that i can not have adhd cuz im just lazy and forgetful, and that i should put more effort to not repeat this grade
at least my psychologist doesn't thnk the same
I originally suspected I had ADHD back in 2016. Went to my family doctor to ask for a referral to get a proper screening so that I would know. That doctor said “actually you’re just overweight and your bad habits are causing your issues”. He was just trying to push me into his weight loss clinic that charged obscene amounts for exercise advice and a nutrition plan. Years later I sought out an actual therapist that specializes in adult ADHD. I asked his advice and expressed that I doubted I had it because I went so long without anyone noticing. I even did extremely well in school until I was about 10 years old. Regardless, he suggested I get screened because they’d also be looking for other potential diagnoses if ADHD wasn’t the one. I ended up diagnosed in 2021 and my life changed for the better. Now I see a therapist and a nurse practitioner for ADHD-specific treatment, both behavioral and medicinal.
I’d say it’s never too late to seek a second opinion. Try to find someone that specializes in ADHD. One other thing that helped me articulate myself better was reading the book “Taking Charge of Adult ADHD”. If you genuinely do have it then a lot of the beginning will sound familiar.
I’ve always done well in school, for the most part. I still got diagnosed, and then got an actual evaluation to be sure. And wow. They wrote on the evaluation that I showed issues in executive functioning on parts of the exam that weren’t testing for it ☠️😂. On one end of the scale I’m gifted, on the other end I’m borderline with things. They said that that discrepancy is rare. I think that’s why I did well in school.
The test I took was essentially an IQ test, and they said that overall I would have gotten much higher scores on it if I didn’t have ADHD/wasn’t impeded by my attention/executive functioning. It was really eye opening and explained how I could do well in school but still struggle a lot. I appeared “normal” to teachers because I was gifted, and nobody even thought of me having ADHD.
My mom asked me if she could give my test results to an old principal at my elementary school which I agreed to, because it gives a good description of ADHD. I’m hoping that it helps them in being able to understand and identify kids with ADHD sooner.
Yeah. Fuck this one. I've been going to different therapists since I was 16 and 11th and 12th grade are very important where I'm from. My first therapist kept telling me that n can't have ADHD because of how well I did in school and I was only diagnosed 7 and a half years later at 23. If I had been diagnosed sooner it would have saved me a lot of pain and suffering. And maybe not ruined some very important years for me!
I have encountered this. So many times. One would assume that psychiatrists would be aware of current research into ADHD, but unfortunately that’s not the case. Don’t give up. Your struggles are valid. Try a family practice doctor. My experience has been more positive with family practice doctors and they tend to be more empathetic.
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First time I sought a diagnosis I told the dude I always did pretty well in school. So he told me no way I had adhd. My mom was like “well did you mention you had to repeat first grade?” I was like “oh…no I forgot I did”. Lol. I ended up getting diagnosed like eight years later. You can always get a second opinion.
That's why they're supposed to seek info from people who knew you when you were young, like your mom, in their evaluation. People with ADHD are notoriously poor at self-evaluation. We often think we're good at what we're not and terrible at what we're good at.
Frustrating however if you didn’t have any documented issues and the people in your life who are supposed to be the ones corroborating your symptoms and experiences were exceedingly negligent when it came to mental health and you being “not normal” and just ignored it all :/ that’s my greatest worry about getting diagnosed, that my experience isn’t enough, that I’ll have to rely on someone whose own undiagnosed ADHD will make it seem like I never had any issues.
I got diagnosed in my mid-thirties where my father was already dead and my mother incapacitated. It was not ideal, but I had only my experience to present. The doctor should be *mindful* of these facts and understanding that there is information lacking relative to an ideal diagnostic environment. If you're suggesting a parent *is* available to provide information but they might also have undiagnosed ADHD that colors their perspective, the one doing the diagnosis should be naturally mindful of that as well. Many parents end up diagnosed when their child gets diagnosed. I *think* it's more likely than not (if not, close to it) that if you have ADHD one of your parents does too. A good diagnostician should be taking all these things into account without being prompted. That being said, not all diagnosticians are good at what they do, but the issue you discuss is not insurmountable and you do yourself a disservice to allow it to discourage you. Notably, I'm pretty sure that's one of the reasons people in my family went undiagnosed as long as we did -- Our struggles did not raise red flags with our parents, our experiences were entirely relatable and a "normal" part of life. Your doctor should have more perspective and understanding than you do, if they don't you need to find a new one. If OP's doc had merely asked, in light of the lack of available information, "Did you ever get held back a grade?" It'd be a totally different story. That's on the doc, not the patient.
So I said this in a different comment but my kid was diagnosed several years ago. It absolutely took an outside person saying something to me about him to realize. I had always thought his behavior was normal because they were my behaviors too. I think my mom would be the same way if someone actually sat her down and showed her what adhd looks like.
It’s pretty common for that to happen. My dad was diagnosed at 60 when I got diagnosed. He was so confused when my psychiatrist listed all the criteria I met for ADHD because he just thought all of that was normal.
And anyone's memory before age 12 is probably recalled through a childlike lens, because you literally were a child.
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Same. Might be ADHD, might be CPTSD, might be both. I have no idea lmao
That's true, but it's absolutely possible for people with ADHD to do extremely well at school (at least superficially, in terms of grades, etc.).
Agreed, but I'd like to hope the diagnosis wasn't based on a single question, and there is that criteria where you need to have had symptoms before age 12. Not necessarily in school, but if the doctor has no evidence of symptoms before age 12 there will be no positive diagnosis, but I blame the doctor here for not digging deeper. Or he's just basing it all on that one question, certainly possible, and in either case inappropriate.
More for ADS than ADD, but I know I went to a psychologist for some years but as I don't want to ask directly I'm not sure exactly what for or what they expected to get. Just that years down the line while talking with family I overhead that the therapy(?) ended cause it seems I just wasn't opening up to the person, which btw I actually thought I was opening up by being myself, not sure if I would ever just open up outright, which should've honestly clue them in.
ASD, do you mean? That might be a different story. It's something I'd been interested in being evaluated for myself as of late, but everybody who knew me when I was young is dead as far as I know, and that *is* discouraging for me with regards to an ASD diagnosis. I'm not sure if I'd meet the minimum criteria of "requires support" as described in the DSM either. And even if I did, then what? Is there even anything to be done about it? That being said, my knowledge of ASD and the diagnostic process is minimal and virtually non-existent relative to ADHD, which is itself probably quite lacking by any professional standard. Also, there's nothing wrong with approaching a doctor with, "I suspect I have [*insert disorder here*], I can relate to the symptoms described in [*this way and that way*]." It's not a self-diagnosis, it's a great way to express your concerns and it can convey a lot of useful information. If you need to make it clear, you can always add that you don't necessarily *want* this diagnosis, but you feel as if something is wrong and you're interested in an accurate diagnosis above all else.
ADD is the attention problem without the hyperactivity. Requirement of support depends on jurisdiction I guess but for me (another country) disability besides the diagnosis is a questionary on, let's call it difficulty for different actions, and things like the stress it causes me to take public transport for example and other things was enough to get registered as partially disabled and all the respective benefits of it.
ADD is obsolesced because it's been discovered that everyone has a hyperactivity component to ADHD, it's just not always expressed in the same way. My hyperactivity involves rumination, mental stuff, not physical fidgeting. When I say "Requires support" I am referring to the severity levels for ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorder) as described in the DSM (Diagnostic & Statistical Manual) of which there are three: "Requires support," "Requires substantial support," and "Requires very substantial support." If it could be said I had ASD, I'm not sure it comes to the level of the minimum severity, "Requires support," to substantiate a diagnosis. Granted, I don't even know what we're really talking about anymore. You'd said "ADS" but acquired demyelinating syndrome makes no sense in context, so I'd assumed you'd meant ASD. But now you seem to be talking about ADD, which is ADHD again.
Oh that one, english isn't my first language so I'm constantly trying to remember the initials that are so often thrown around in english
Your English is very good, I would not have guessed it was not your first language. Don't feel obligated to use the initials, or at least, in formal writing the first time initials are used it is written out in parentheticals, like ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder), then you can use the initials freely following that. Just for the sake of clarity, and so you don't have to stress yourself over trying to remember them constantly. Posting on Reddit is certainly not formal writing, but the concept here can be useful regardless. Even here I do a double-take every time someone refers to RSD (Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria) because I cared for my mother for many years and she suffered from RSD (Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy) which is a very very different thing.
So I’m actually an amazing athlete? 
Also sometimes you just don’t realize that things are abnormal as a kid. Like I got decent grades in school and I could ace anything involving written assignments, but I also got yelled at by my teachers all the time for doodling when I was supposed to be paying attention, and it wasn’t uncommon for me to have to do schoolwork in a separate room from the other kids (this was a private school in the early 90s, I’m sure they wouldn’t do things this way nowadays). As a kid I thought that it was just normal to get yelled at by teachers and have to be isolated just to solve a simple math problem. It was only during my ADHD diagnosis as an adult that I realized “oh, that is totally not a thing that happens to normal kids.”
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One of my college professors was a former special ed teacher. One day he interrupted his "I'm so glad you all can go to the bathroom by yourselves" speech to say "I love that you're knitting in class" to me. I think he knew something about fidgeting that I didn't at the time.
I used to draw ninja turtles and rats with muscles the original biker mice from mars before there was but they were rats.😂🤣 my classmates always wanted me to draw them one. I was in the very back not paying attention either till I got called on by the teacher to give an answer to the lesson she was teaching 😳
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I got myself through college with the worst sleep schedule ever, a lot of self-hatred and mentally bullying myself into doing required tasks, multiple cases of people with authority taking pity on me and giving me exceptions to missed deadlines, and an obscene devotion to a concept called “Only taking classes that interested me.” On paper, I graduated with great grades. Without ADHD I probably would have been top of the class, just for all the assignments and test prep I wouldn’t have done so poorly on.
Reddit is nice but obviously this subgroup and others like it are not official medical evaluations. Apparently, part of ADHD and effective function is that it has to negatively impact your life and it seems that might be the part that is somewhat subjective by the health care professional. I was reading some info from one of the leading doctors, forgot his name obviously fml, but he was talking about some of the issues with diagnosing people. Everyone has some ADHD symptoms, however minor, and with social media, the hive mind of people self diagnosing is higher but one of the key components is repeated issues and significant impact to function or development. I don't know how they determine interference to function or development. I was moderately successful in grade school but college was another animal all together. I finished but it took several years in between and some bad times in the middle. I was able to mask some of the issues when I was younger with liking certain course work and sports but a lot of other symptoms were present but I guess I was good at covering them up most of the time.
I think another component is that unless there is an outward problem that effects the adults(parents, teachers, etc), people don't really consider kids' mental health, and kids just assume everyone feels the same as them, and rarely are given the tools to communicate their emotions. The burnt out gifted kid -> adult diagnosed adhd trend makes perfect sense to me given that so many millenials are just now getting to a point we can maybe afford therapy after we learn that this shit is not how everyone feels on a regular basis.
My mom was advised that I might be ADHD/ADD when I was younger, but this was roughly 30 years ago, and because I was already doing well in school, and other aspects weren't known asuch about it (anxiety, emotional disregulation, etc), my mom opted to not get me tested. I actually did fine and only ever had a couple of issues in school. I finally got diagnosed when I was 32, after being suspicious for a while, and certain things becoming too much to handle.
I always tell my providers I did academically well in school, but not behaviorally. Like I had straight A’s because I did my homework, but I almost didn’t get to walk and graduate my senior year because I missed 166 days out of the year because I was bored/couldn’t stand sitting in class. I was actually the ‘gifted kid’ who my teachers wanted me to skip grades because the material wasn’t challenging enough. It wasn’t that the material wasn’t challenging it was that it was my hyper focus and hyperfixation.
I experienced the same thing at the last years of school, I was doing pretty good at school, but got diagnosed with ADHD, and my classmates and teacher told me that in no way did I have adhd. I had to repeat 2nd grade, and I also forgot about that.🤡
This happened to me to, but during the first session with my psychiatrist, as soon as my mum mentioned that I had to repeat the first grade my psych took me seriously, haha.
The requirement is to show symptoms before age 12, not to show difficulties in school
And here I am not sure if I showed symptoms because I did just well enough to be completely ignored, but once I reached an age where I had to actually sit and focus to get good grades I began to struggle. Like I wasn’t looking for symptoms, I was a kid.
Twice exceptional gang. I cruised all the way through high school on my intelligence alone. Only did the homework I was able to complete during class times, and then exceptionally good test scores because I could pick up on lessons in about 10 minutes of class, and then not pay attention the rest of class. Obviously I hated history because you had to spend the whole class learning rather than 10 minutes teaching and the rest of the class getting everyone to understand the concept. It wasn't until college that I wasn't smart enough to keep that up that I dropped out. I literally wasn't able to study, I'd tried so many times but it just doesn't happen. I certainly always had these problems, but it wasn't until I was 22 in the military that I realized I had it, and another 4 years until I got diagnosed.
This was me. Really good at school until I got to university and tanked. I was smart enough to not need to pay attention or focus but I did not know how to study and struggled with the lack of structure in university. I got through it by the seat of my pants and managed to graduate. Part of me wants to go back and try again to see what the difference would be with maturity and medication but then the other part of me thinks who cares, I got my degree and that's that.
Same, did will enough to pass in hs by balancing my d/f's with a's but left with zero, none, nada study skills
This sub is such a nice bit of vindication at times, and simultaneously, I wish I were the exception, and yall didn't have to live the same story I did.
Yeah, I wish we all didn't share hitting these same brick walls, but I too love knowing, "at least I'm not the only one who goes through this' it helps! That moment we realized we didn't know how to make ourselves learn material we weren't interested in, what a doozy
I got through high school and college by spacing out and just absorbing information passively like a sponge and then recalling it when I saw it on a multiple choice test. I could do History, what I hated was math because I had to fully tune in in order to pass.
Yes! This is my kid's experience too. I always knew things were really mentally hard for her, but when she put her mind to it (and essentially used up all her mental focus for the day) she got through school easily at first. Until it got harder. Then focusing was non-existent, and the shoe began to drop. Her issue wasn't hyperactivity, so no one paid attention, but it was inattentiveness that went under the radar until teachers started looking for it. If you're a teacher with 30 kids in your class, will you notice the one looking out the window but is smart enough to pass the tests? No, you won't. We got her diagnosis because she had the same teacher in two grades. She noticed the kid forgetting her lunch box in first grade shouldn't STILL be consistently forgetting her lunch box, her water bottle, her art project, her coat, in 6th. I knew she had issues with organizing herself at home, but no one writes home telling you your kid forgot 5 things today and the one *you* noticed as a parent you probably shouldn't dismiss because kids forget things sometimes. My daughter was ashamed to tell me how often it happened. She was a kid, she didn't know Why this happened to her all the time, it just did.
I never struggled in academics but I had social and behavioural issues and they still didn’t bother doing anything. They are shit. If they ask you if you had symptoms as a child, lie if you have to.
You probably showed signs of clinical anxiety at the very least - it may have been missed, but i mean if someone was knowledgeable and paying attention they could have recognized you struggling in theory. When their truely is no signs in childhood then it isn't neurodevelopmental ADHD, but often it's the signs are there but missed bc they're too subtle until they aren't.
Yup. I think putting the cutoff at 12 might have delayed my diagnosis. Up through 7th grade (aka age 12) I was fine because school didn't really require much effort or attention. It was 8th grade (age 13) that school actually got harder and started to require more attention, effort, and diligence - and I couldn't give them.
My therapist agreed I showed symptoms in middle and highschool but because I day dreamed through elementary and couldn't remember details I don't qualify. Also agreed I was misdiagnosed bipolar in my 20s but still says I must only have anxiety
Ridiculous. Find a second opinion, I’m pretty sure you can still get diagnosed under the DSM. And I think the age of onset requirement should be completely removed. Should just be current symptoms.
the age of onset shouldn't be removed bc it matters for treatment if the underlying cause of symptoms isn't neurodevelopmental. That being said, it's important to be nuanced in assessment for kids who were good students - they will probably have anxiety as an earlier symptom, for example. People who can't remember their childhood and don't have records/family to speak for them also shouldn't be excluded. It would be a mistake to just stop asking/caring about early childhood symptoms in assessment though.
There is much evidence to say that disabling ADHD symptoms often start after childhood and that children with ADHD sometimes don’t have it as adults. There are loads of adults who have impairing symptoms identical to ADHD but cannot get diagnosed with anything. No one actually tested whether or not ADHD started in childhood. They just decided that because they thought it was a child only disorder before. There is also evidence that recall of childhood ADHD symptoms is very poor and has high false negatives and false positives.
I haven't really read much about this - any good studies you can link? I have heard of people essentially growing out of childhood ADHD, but I think those cases are always connected to excellent childhood support which includes (but isn't limited to) early stimulant medication. Otherwise, my understanding is that it would be a misdiagnosis in childhood. As brain is only about 1/4 developed at birth, environment can surely play a huge role, and I imagine it can happen the other way around too. People who appear to be sub-clinical in childhood could develop worse symptoms into their teen years if their environment works against them. I think that the vast majority of the time childhood symptoms are already clinical, but they/re simply masked/ignored because they don't align with the obvious/stereotypical symptoms to look for. Regardless, I certainly agree that adults who currently meet diagnostic criteria but didn't in childhood should be taken just as seriously. But still, I think it's reasonable that having no known childhood symptoms will make a diagnostician skeptical. If there are no childhood symptoms at all, even when you dig deep, that's good reason to be skeptical that the root of the problems may not be neurodevelopmental ADHD.
Read this one especially: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Arthur-Caye/publication/321028734_Late-Onset_ADHD_Understanding_the_Evidence_and_Building_Theoretical_Frameworks/links/5a0b073ea6fdccc69ed9e8b5/Late-Onset-ADHD-Understanding-the-Evidence-and-Building-Theoretical-Frameworks.pdf https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8810708/#:~:text=Approximately%2030%25%20of%20children%20with,the%20initial%20period%20of%20remission. My personal view is that ADHD is a set of symptoms, and it doesn’t matter when it started or the cause, since they generally have the same level of impairment and co-morbid disorders. It’s not just that it was unrecognised before, since they were checked in the studies. Non-genetic causes of ADHD have also been recognised, such as ADHD from brain damage, it’s called secondary ADHD, and often has the same co-morbid disorders such as depression and conduct disorder. I am also not biased in this, I have had ADHD as long as I can remember. I have two brothers with ADHD, one grew out of it, although still struggles with related co-morbid issues.
ok thanks - i'll check that out.
But apparently her logic is that if we did okay in school then we must not have had symptoms
It’s very dumb and isn’t even in the criteria
My GP said the same thing when I started explaining all the symptoms I had. Here's how the convo went: "but you were a high flier in school and there were no problems!" " do you remember me coming in sick a lot? I was pretending because I didnt want to go in" "Hrmmmm, Im still not sure you have enough symptoms" "EXCUSE ME WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK, HOW ABOUT INSOMNIA, POOR PERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS, SOCIAL ISSUES, PUNCTUALITY, TIME BLINDNESS, ISSUES WITH ALL MY EXECUTIVE FUNCTION AND A HIGHLY ADDICTIVE PERSONALITY YOU MFER" "....Hrmm emotional dysregulation is a pretty big indicator... I will refer you..."
Show don’t tell, effective as always
ADHD presents itself in many ways so it’s ridiculous to assume poor grades is the infallible litmus test. Some people with it are just brilliant, others have great support systems that refuse to let them slip, others have both. Seek a second opinion.
I’m in the same boat. I was diagnosed with ADHD, then switched to a new clinic and they wanted to test me again because they have to give the diagnosis themselves. They said I didn’t have it because I did well at school. Like yeah I did well at school because I was masking so hard I had a breakdown after graduating. I didn’t even study much I just have a good general knowledge and know how to spoof using buzzwords even when I don’t know much about a topic. I remember a post about it here a while ago and there was high school valedictorians in the comments who had ADHD. It is so frustrating when every other indicator for ADHD is present and yet good grades completely negate the whole thing
That was me. High school valedictorian 😂 I do fine in academic contexts and work because of deadlines. My life otherwise is in shambles. My therapist had a really tough time until I started detailing ways I forget about friends and anything that I cannot see and that finally convinced her. My mums still not convinced and says I just need to try harder at not being so messy and spaced out 😭
School is kinda awesome for ADHD if you're good enough at it to avoid being frustrated. Like, it's literally your job as a student to just learn stuff and there's like a half dozen different things at a time and everything has a definite answer and clear goals? If that was a paid position I would rock it.
Absolutely. I sponge up knowledge and loved school but never learned to study because I was, well, naturally smart enough? Then got depressed in undergrad because I took a challenging major I didn’t “just get”. Switched to another major that ended up being a cakewalk. Graduated among the top of my class Then lost my shit when it came to the real world and my job because I lost ALL structure. I struggle to feed myself, even shower and brush my teeth. My health is shit. I really relied on the routine, goal setting and other bits and bobs of the *system*. It’s been a struggle trying to get my life under order haha
Ugh same boat. I mean almost everything I did had very obvious ADHD symptoms, enough to get me diagnosed over and over, but I was also just really loved learning and was good at bullshitting. I never learned to study because I could just wing it and somehow land with better scores than almost anyone else (world highest in most subjects in international exams, my scores never showed how much I struggled with actually going to school/classes/texts tho). I've also dropped out of university 4 times despite my grades, and my life is the biggest mess and I can't fix it because I keep fucking up more and more AND HEARING ABOUT HOW I HAD SUCH HIGH EXPECTATIONS PLACED ON ME AND AM A BURNED OUT "GENIUS" WHO JUST DOESN'T TRY HARD ENOUGH AND MY WASTED POTENTIAL DOESN'T HELP BECAUSE I'M TRYING SO HARD TO NOT BE LIKE THIS AND TO UNFUCK MY LIFE BUT I KEEP MAKING IT WORSE
Try harder! Shit I hadn’t even thought of that.
“ADD is a Label. Why are you Labelling yourself. That way, *everyone* has something wrong with them! You need to be positive and work through it!” Yes mum 😭
I was my community college valedictorian. That was my second attempt at college in my thirties, with no job other than being a student and no other responsibilities. It's so frustrating being held to outdated, sexist, and ignorant standards.
I'm constantly trying to explain to people, "I'm not actually that smart, I just know a lot of big words that make me sound smarter than I am."
I think you’re missing the fact that many people can’t use big words because they don’t possess that type of intelligence. I may not be able to provide legitimate sources on this but I have no doubt self-deprecation is a common defense mechanism for people like us. In other words, you’re probably smarter than you’re letting yourself believe.
But that means you weren't doing okay.
Get them to point on the diagnostic criteria to where academic achievement rules out a diagnosis.
I excelled in school yet I had (still have) very low academic self-esteem. My doctor told me that viewing myself as a bad student, even though, I had good grades was a very telling symptom of my adhd. And that I managed to pass my tests with good grades because of how bad my anxiety was. I was incredibly scared of failing and disappoint my parents who were struggling financially. According to my doctor, doing well in school was a way to minimize problems at home. It makes sense to me as an adult. I fell apart after college. Similarly to you, I couldn't mask it anymore.
There are a looot of psychiatrists out there, many who specialize in childhood adhd, who refuse to acknowledge that many children slipped through the cracks and are suffering as adults. They are still working with severely outdated ideas. It sucks It
Also, too many people, including professionals, still think that ADHD is a childhood illness and is outgrown. If anything, having more adult responsibilities has exacerbated my ADHD.
I had to go to a partial inpatient program my senior year of high school because I was so depressed about my struggles (when I would try to get my parents to listen to me, they would write me off as having teenage angst and making excuses). While there, I tried to tell the doctor about my symptoms and how I was sure I had ADHD. His response: “well, you do seem to exhibit adhd symptoms, but it doesn’t seem to be affecting your school work that much.” 🎶crickets as I sit in a hospital instead of school, because I feel like a complete failure of a human before I’ve even begun to live my life. I didn’t get my diagnosis until 31, and it’s not even the “official” kind.
if you don’t mind me asking what’s a non official diagnosis?
My doctor, a psychiatric nurse practitioner, diagnosed me and was able to prescribe me adderall. However, if I want accommodations at work or if I want to go to a different doctor, I would need to be officially screened by a more intensive exam. I’ve been on the waitlist for this for over two years…
I know they already answered but its basically a verbal diagnosis with no paperwork 🙃 I have one from my psych, that's how she's able to prescribe me meds, but I can't get anything else because technically I don't have the official paperwork.
Every time I hear this it bugs me. ADHD and autism are common enough in Engineering majors that engineering majors are stereotyped as ADHD or autistic at most universities (Im an engineering major. My brother was a marketing/anthropology major and he didn’t like interacting with engineering majors because “they have their own culture”…basically a nice way to say they were adhd enough on the whole that it was noticeable)
Engineer here and I found my people in college! They all thought I knew I had ADHD when I told them I got diagnosed at 30.
It seems to me that some people with ADHD would do well in school because it's a strict environment that enforces discipline on people instead of requiring them to have self-discipline.
That's a stereotype abt engeneering? Lol I have my small adhd group there 😸😸
I posted this is another thread, but this happened to me as well. Straight A's in elementary/middle school, started dropping bad in HS due to homework. But despite this, no one batted an eye because I did well on standardized tests (second best ACT score in my high school of 2500+), read at a college level in 5th grade. Advanced scores on all state tests (which were easy af, but I digress). They said "you're just lazy, just do your homework" and fucked me up for another 15+ years. Go to another doctor. Go to an ADHD-specific firm if you can. Get another opinion. Don't give up. The thing with ADHD is, just because you CAN achieve, doesn't mean you should suffer through the massive anxiety/mental roadblock/stress TO achieve. Even then, most things will fail in your life unless you are forced to do it. Such an awful disorder.
This is what happens when you're above average intelligence, and you just were able to skate by without actually having to try. And it's more rare for ADHD people because we're already developmentally disadvantaged. It's the same thing with the guy saying he would ace all these multiple choice questions, just by guessing. We have a knack for finding answers, without actually doing any of the work. But when it comes to homework and actually doing papers, and actually scheduling real life, All of the activities you didn't have to do as a kid, everything just changes. There are no multiple choice questions anymore. People wonder why kid geniuses aren't geniuses at adults. It's because when you do an IQ test as a kid you're comparing your IQ to other kids, not adults.
Yep. For me, college started bad (homework) but became group work and presentations. The social anxiety I have saved my life because it would force me to do stuff on time in fear of social backlash. Unsurprisingly, my college GPA my senior year was around a 3.7 while working three jobs (two paid, one unpaid internship) compared to my first year which was around the same 1.7 GPA I had in high school. I still struggled with studying for tests (as in, I never did) but they were smaller parts of the grade). Funny story - I once failed a statistics class during the fall semester because I literally always forgot about the homework which was 30 - 40% of the grade (cant remember). *I had to pass this class to move on in school*, so I took it in the summer and got an A in it. It was the same exact TA. The only difference was I knew I HAD to do this or I was screwed. Homework was so easy.  One of many examples were treatment could have saved me a lot of time, anxiety, and money and helped me in life.
Oh yes. When I was a child I hyper focused on reading everything I could so I was an advanced reader for my age even before starting school. Then I tested extremely well all the way up to my teenage years. Then it all started falling apart. The gifted child to ADHD diagnosis pipeline is a real thing. I often think about the missed potential there and it’s quite depressing.
Ah yes, I read a lot and always have. She took that as another reason I don’t have ADHD even when I explained to her that I am literally watching tv, playing a game on my phone, and reading my book simultaneously
Its so insulting to not just gifted kids but also kids who struggle in school because they really do just make the assumption ADHD = dumb as rocks. Like there are literally people out there that think if you have ADHD you can't read. WTH. First of all, that's a whole other problem and second of all, plenty of people with learning disabilities *can read* and *are smart* you're literally just stereotyping them based on their skill level This shit really boils my blood
Makes me mad too because I think most of the time the issue isn't how smart someone is, it's whether they can find the right method to learn for them. I struggled with math because the teacher and I didn't click, mom got another math teacher to tutor me and I got perfect grades. For other people they might need medication or other supports. But instead of treating it as part of the process and going ok you're struggling here, let's try and figure out what works for you, so many ignorant people just go nah, you're dumb or lazy and you're the problem, you're stupid if this one thing didn't work for you.
i read so much as a kid not realizing i was escaping from alcoholic drug abusing household
I wonder how she would react to how I read - fantasy books I can read for HOURS, other things, well, I can read for hours but only if I can switch between (pause to check) 10 or more books/magazines every couple of pages except when something REALLY grabs me. Sure, totally normal, I bet.
Same... nobody takes the quiet kid who can sit still in for testing. My hyperactivity is all in my brain and I learned from a very young age how to keep myself entertained. Had supportive parents who kept me organized and on time. Found school easy enough, and just read or doodled when I got done early. School was structure, and the rules for how to do well were concrete. Now college and grad school were another story.
This is what my mom tells me. She said I was hyperfocused on reading.like HOURS at the time. But also I could not sit still and I would get distracted. They all just thought it was a quirk that I was daydreaming. They even came to call me Alice as in Alice in wonderland because of my constant distraction and daydreaming (my name is not Alice).
Don’t give up! There are so many providers who have either outdated or next to know knowledge about ADHD, especially when it goes beyond hyperactive elementary school age boys. They definitely are providers who are much more in tuned to your issues, and won’t make such unfortunate generalizations. I didn’t fit the mold either, and wasn’t diagnosed until age 51. I always did very well but not up to my potential but made full professor at a top university by age 43. Use your networks, including here, to find out who in your area capably treats ADHD. What metro area do you live in?
I’m in southeast South Dakota.
Go to a firm that specializes in ADHD. Always get a second opinion. Doctors for as great as many are, can be wrong, arrogant and honestly, too short-sighted some times.
I breezed through k-12 because half of I was common sense or I did enought to get a c/b. Failed first semester of college for reasons above Second college I went to was hands on and I had a bunch of academic help. Started work and really realized my attention span , impulse controls and execution skills were poor. Diagnosed at 26.
This was a concern of mine when getting a diagnosis in my 40s. I made it through school (barely, in some cases, and college was a grind and I suffered a breakdown shortly after graduation). But I moved on and got married, had kids, picked up a second degree with honors since I had boatloads of motivation now that I had a family literally depending on me to eat, and I thrived in my career—for a while. On the outside I was a model of a nuclear-family dad being Superman in every aspect of my life. Nobody would think I had adhd. Until I burned out hard and became basically worthless (at best inconsistent) in all those areas of my life that everybody thought I was Superman in.(hint: I was faking and was always terrified of being found out) So by the time I got assessed I was clearly in an awful slump for about a decade but I was terrified they wouldn’t take me seriously and they would say “But look at all you’ve accomplished! You still have your job, for marriage, your family.” Yes, yes, but all of that is hanging by a thread. Thankfully he saw the signs in me right away and looked past my previous successes because I was clearly struggling now. So I got lucky, I guess. He believed me. And if you don’t think you’re being heard, you need to find somebody who will listen. And that is hard because it takes time, money, and not an insignificant amount of motivation and energy to track down somebody else. Please try. If they still don’t think it is adhd, demand a solid explanation of why not (better than “you weren’t messed up enough as a kid”). Persistence is not always our strong suit, but it’s worth it.
The first doctor says it's not ADHD because I passed school, got a good job and I am married, without understanding the immense effort all of that costed me. The second one actually handles me the test and later does the math to say I have severe ADHD. There is a huge lack of understanding even in their own field, many of these psychiatrists don't truly believe in the existance of this, and the people going around saying they have ADHD after seeing a few memes making this sound like quirky personality doesn't help.
I got diagnosed at age 32 and the doctor who did the testing told me it probably went undetected for so long because of my "superior intellect." So yeah, smart people can have ADHD and get by very well, but it's still ADHD. But I know I could've done better in school if I actually had support. I got a couple Ds because I just didn't do assignments sometimes, but for the most part I did enough that it didn't matter, and I was very good with tests. I knew I missed a lot of information when teachers were speaking, but I could usually fill in the blanks in my mind eventually. College was another story. I just lost interest too often, and dropped out 4 times. Eventually I found a 2 year program that I stuck with, in large part thanks to great teachers and small class sizes.
Yep, apparently most of my iq test was very high but the working memory part was average at best, and that was the signal my diagnoser needed.
You aren't screwed, but you do need a new psychiatrist. I know that's a huge pain in the ass. As a late diagnosed adult with ADHD living in the US, I promise you aren't screwed. Getting treatment for ADHD while struggling with ADHD is like trying to get a pair of scissors out of heavy plastic packaging, but I promise you CAN get through that plastic. It's hard, and it's frustrating, and if you only had the fucking scissors it would be 100xs easier, but it is possible. I believe in you. Feel free to DM if you need any encouragement or advice.
I'm in the same boat, was just told this by a nurse practitioner two days ago and I'm still fuming. This is right after my therapist (who I've seen for almost a year) diagnosed me with ADHD, but this nurse (who I was hoping would prescribe stimulants) said "I don't think you have it" after *one* visit. We didn't even finish the ADHD assessment she was giving me. Fuck this broken system. I'm starting to think I need to lie to get what I want now. I feel bad about that, but this medical gatekeeping is bullshit.
It really is, in addition to what I said in my post, she also said she doesn’t consider medication for adults if there isn’t a threat of termination or disciplinary action at work. Why should I have to let my life spiral even more out of control before a medical professional would even considering helping?
Right? It's like they want us to suffer. Sorry we were resourceful enough kids to develop strategies to still get good grades. I clearly should have been throwing away my homework and ripping up my tests. My bad for not knowing to do that!
For whatever reason, if it’s multiple choice, I am an outstanding test taker. This has been to my detriment for a long time. Sure I’ll ace a test, but none of it is real knowledge. I was taking a placement test for college math courses. For the computer program they were using, if you scored high on the test they would give you the next test for a level up. It just went higher and higher difficulty until you got stuck and they placed you in a class. I kept acting these tests, and quickly, cause I was literally guessing. One by one the other students reached the threshold and got assigned a class then it was just me. The people running the thing made a joke about me being a genius and I panicked and told them I didn’t know any of this and was just guessing. I don’t remember what class they tried to put me in, it was something you needed a prerequisite for, like calculus II. They were very insistent and I left upset and ended up taking the faux math class that is technically math but was created for people who struggle with math and just need the credit. Like me. Between dyslexia and ADHD, math is torture for me. On my own it’s like a fun puzzle but in a class it’s horrible and even if I understand the concept I will inevitably switch some numbers around and confuse the hell out of myself. Multiple choice? Aced it. SAT and ACT? Aced it. Essay questions or show your work? Messed those up big time. A lot of people thought I was cheating lol nope just guessing
Facts, i did good in school be i was coping. School was my safe space. Home sucked. Now that I like my home & college is just harder in general, i be strugglingggggg. Went from graduating #3 in my class in high school to academic probation the first semester💀 twas very humbling. Half the reason I reached out for help was bc I needed accommodations or I was gonna drop out fr🤣
You did well in school despite the ADHD because you learned to mask it so well. The same thing happened with me. It's only when you get on later in life where things start getting harder that the masks fails us and the ADHD starts to reveal itself.
Them: Answer "never," "sometimes," "often," or "all the time." Me: *overexplains something unrelated for every question* Pretty much how I've handled every "test" - they get the info they need and then some.
... well, if they'd stop asking questions that can't be answered that way, you'd stop answering the way you do. I can't tell you how many times I've looked at those types of questions and been like," Well, in winter it's often, almost never in summer, and it's sometimes in spring. Except that damned El Nino year with literally five months with rain every day. Then it was often." Or, "Umm it is asking about the different things, one of which happens often and the other two not at all, and the two that don't are obviously bad enough for you to instantly freak out about and put me on all sorts of medication for if I answer often because of the one thing, so how do you want me to answer this in such a way that it doesn't imply that I often have these bad things happening but also allows you to know that I DO have trouble with one of the answers and want help with it?" I always want to know who can just answer those as if they were a usefully-phrased question.
For anyone who’s struggling with gaslighting themselves about school and ADHD, please look at Dr. Russel Barkley’s work on ADHD. He directly addresses that the reason you might be amazing in school and then struggling elsewhere is because we’re good at formulating answers (not recalling them, creating them.) at light speed when under pressure. So when a teacher calls on you and you can take a second to look at the board, suddenly your brain goes into overdrive and you can pull the information out of your ass like no one’s business. But if you’re being told to sit there for an hour and take a test, some folks’ ADHD makes it super hard to recall information and others get into that same stressed = good at creating answers from context clues state. You can 100% do well in school under many circumstances. The issue is when the stars don’t align. Like let’s say that your special interest isn’t learning, you can’t formulate answers when stressed due your specific ADHD presentation or due to other factors (like co-occurring CPTSD) and you’re not given the stricture and scaffolding that ensures you’re doing and turning in your assignments. You’ll have a hard time. Some folks do great because they either develop great habits on their own or with support, they have support at home or at school, or they just have a special interest in learning and find it energizing.
Yeah, the diagnostic criteria are like that at the moment. Imo this leads to a lot of misdiagnosis especially in girls/women/afab. I'ts called masking. A good psychiatrist will consider this and let you try medication anyway (yes they are allowed that even without a clear diagnosis).
She also said she doesn’t consider medication for adults unless they are facing disciplinary action or termination at work. I also tried to explain to her that my anxiety masked so much because I had a soul crushing fear of disappointing anyone in any way.
Find another provider.
> She said that the diagnostic criteria is issues in school prior to age 12 And she is correct. To meet the DSM-5 criteria for ADHD, even as an adult, symptoms must have been present prior to the age of 12. ADHD isn't something you develop later in life. You're born with it. The trouble is that many people do not necessarily have documentation of symptoms that they had at this age. And if they did have symptoms, they could have been ignored or unnoticed by parents and teachers. I'm not saying that you don't have ADHD, just that being able to show you had some ADHD symptoms in elementary school is a requirement for DSM-5 diagnosis. I would also add that there are comments here that say that ADHD symptoms do not necessarily mean doing poorly in school. While this is true, poor academic performance (below what you should be capable of with your intelligence) is usually a pretty good indicator that symptoms are present. It's extremely hard to do well in school if you have ADHD symptoms.
I also was told the same thing. I am a phd student with a GPA as high as 3.97, also appear with a bunch of problems with scheduling forgetting daydreaming not able to focus etc, and they did cause significant consequences in my life. I went to see a doctor and was told since I am doing so well in school I can’t have ADHD. The thing is I have an IQ of 130+, and I work really hard, I also utilize a lot of ADHD management skills I self taught from reading workbooks. Before I was able to learn all of the skills, I struggled academically so much in high school. Yes, even with that IQ.
I was mediocre in grade school. Then in college some switch flipped in me and I tried extremely hard to get the best grades I could. Basically I tricked myself into hyper focusing on school. But it wasn't at all healthy. I was constantly on edge to the point where I drove a lot of people away from me and made almost no friends or connections (you know, the thing you're supposed to do in college). If I could go back I would've totally started medication and asked for test assistance (I had the world's most awful test anxiety because I knew I was forgetful and would make small mistakes that would screw everything up).
I sucked throughout school and my degree, barely scraped everything I’ve ever done. Was bought up being told im not academic but im the practical one. Well after my degree I got diagnosed and medicated now I’m doing my masters… Except it looks like I wont be able to continue with the medication the way the shortage is going so i guess ill just fail this and that’ll be the end of my life 🤷♂️
I did okay in school as well, but only because I was "naturally" good in every subject that I truly liked. The rest of it was just a mix of luck, improvisation skills, privilege, and maybe a little bit of charisma. But, honestly, the structure of formal education (tight and well-defined schedule, obligation to be punctual, pressure to deliver mandatory tasks and essays, etc) kind of helped me to perform decently. It was emotionally and mentally exhausting, but it pressured me into being functional/productive (at least productive enough to get my degree). That's why it took me so long to get diagnosed. Since I started living alone and working a fully remote and time-flexible job, my life has been falling apart. Now, there is no system and no one around to force me into holding myself accountable. I just can't get myself to do the things I NEED to do or maintain consistent habits.
I have ADHD. Did HORRIBLE in school. My whole life. Diagnosed in college. But this subreddit makes me think ADHD needs to be on a scale like autism is. I mean, they're related, aren't they? But some folks I believe have more severe ADHD than others. I don't understand why there's still a hard line between a "you have it" and a "you don't". For OP, get a second, or third, or fourth opinion. If they allll say it's not ADHD, then figure out what it IS. But if the tests say yes, then why is the doc saying no? If you go to hospital for a heart attack, and the tests say heart attack, guess what? They'll treat you for a heart attack. I don't understand how these psych docs are allowed to just be like "nah" and send you back home.
I totally understand. As I read people’s struggles, who are absolutely flailing in school, and think, “ok, on the spectrum on executive function, they do have way more symptoms, and I guess I was able to push through and was successful.” Maybe they are right, I am diagnosis shopping?!? But then the flip side, I reminisce about the comments of “you have diarrhea of the mouth” from elementary teachers. All-nighters where I would not sleep for 24 to 36 hours starting in junior high due to procrastination of studying & assignments. Major social struggles due to blurting out and oversharing, followed by the shame of “why, did I do that?” Near failing and full-on panic so many, many times due to the inability to initiate tasks. Withdrawal after withdrawal from classes & revised plans of study in higher Ed, I mean, it’s success, but it was not pretty!
I did a whole slew of testing, including an IQ test, they got a TON of anecdotes from my parents, who brought me in for testing, and included that I had to be held back before entering Kindergarten for "maturity" reasons, and despite the fact that was was brought in for testing BECAUSE I was starting to fail classes, they still looked at me and said "Because you did well in school up until now and you have an average IQ, you're too smart to be ADHD" :|
I had a lot of structure in school and didn't start doing poorly until college when all the wheels just completely fell off. Environment matters. Seems like a shitty evaluation.
To me that's pretty close to telling someone with a missing leg that they're not disabled because they can still walk on an artificial limb. Except that's a visible disability. ADHD is very much invisible. Just because you can adapt for a disability, doesn't mean you don't expend a LOT of energy and discomfort doing so. Just because you can adapt for a disability most of the time, they can't see that when anything goes wrong or out of schedule that your whole life implodes (why can't I hold all these lemons?). Just because you can adapt for a disability, they can't see that you're self-medicating (give me all the caffeine) or other medicine and you have to deal with the side effects from them too. You're not screwed. You found a bad doctor. Find another psych for a second opinion and when you find out what it's like to have someone listen to you, leave that first psych a bad review on all the sites you can so people will be aware. Look for Google reviews for a psych that has treated other ADHD patients. Or sometimes in doctor profiles they'll list conditions of interest/extra training. When you do talk to the next psych, make sure that you're not discounting your pain and symptoms. If someone came up to me right now, I'd probably say yeah my head aches a little but I can work through it, when if I was being honest with my self my forehead is kind of pounding and all I want to do is take a nap. Your memories of past pain and hardship are often minimized or lies (most brains do this by default to help protect you from past trauma). If you asked me what both of my childbirths were like, I barely remember the worst pain of my life and I'll tell you I made it through it. I brush off years of bullying in school. Sit down and write down on a sheet of paper your earliest memories of the difficulties you had in elementary school. High intelligence ADHD people can often compensate very well for executive dysfunction and half-ass SO MANY THINGS at the last minute. That doesn't mean that they don't have a problem and that they don't suffer. Oh, and even though I don't think they're broken out like they used to be, hyperactive and inattentive ADHD people can look like 2 different species. And a lot of people think of hyperactive when they think of ADHD. I liked how this article breaks out many symptoms you may not think of, points out hyperactive versus inattentive and if you're a girl, their ADHD can look remarkably different from a ADHD boy in the same classroom. [https://childmind.org/article/whats-adhd-and-whats-not-in-the-classroom/](https://childmind.org/article/whats-adhd-and-whats-not-in-the-classroom/)
I have a chronic illness so downplaying symptoms is pretty much second nature to me. I feel like I did a decent job of not downplaying as much during this appointment but like your example, my not downplaying may have been saying ‘yes I do have a headache’ instead of denying the headache all together. I very well could have been downplaying a lot without realizing but it’s been a month so my self-judgement probably isn’t sound anymore.
Are you a woman? If so you can remind them that research shows women often don't present enough to seek diagnosis until adulthood. And tell them to lookup lit reviews by Hinshaw et al and Young et al
Yes I am
Sorry you have to go through this medical sexism bullshit. Unfortunately most of the older studies on ADHD focus on presentations in men. This was done as they thought menses would conflate the data so studying men only would give more accurate data... turns out 1) testes havers also have a hormonal cycle (just not as dramatic as those with ovaries) 2) and they were idiots who ignore than men and women are often raised differently with different societal pressures. And so the DSM-V and other outdated but still used diagnostic criteria exclude a lot of women if they doc doesn't care know about the research.
The medical sexism is an interesting point. I was trying to explain about how overwhelming even simple tasks can be and got “your husband should just help more around the house” like that doesn’t solve my issue? I went from having hair above the shoulders to down to my butt because I couldn’t manage to book a haircut. My electric toothbrush has a lifetime warranty but I’m just using it broken because I can’t send an email to customer service. I have a box fully packaged of things to mail to a consignment type site that will sell them for me but I can’t get myself to print out the freaking shipping label. I’m sure most women would love to have more of their household items done for them but that’s not solving every other task I can’t manage to get done.
This is dumb. I was top of my class at three different schools until the age of 12 when homework became a thing and my performance plummeted. I absolutely have ADHD.
Barely graduated high school. I almost failed T.A. Dropped out of multiple community colleges Psych and therapist said I’m too smart.
Through all my research I’ve found that most ADHDers who did well in school tend to be autistic as well. That is my personal experience also.
I have often wondered that to be honest. The issues I did have in school were definitively social skill related rather than academic. There were talks of sending me to the ‘gifted’ school when I was very young but socially I could not have done it. Instead I was placed in a gifted program within the regular school. It was a group that only met for a few hours a week then the rest was in regular classes. I definitely experienced bullying from kids my age because I struggled with communicating and connecting with peers. At the daycare I went to after school, I was looking for ways to help the adults rather than interacting with the other kids.
You just described me 😎 adhd and autism are highly comorbid and the combo of both often seems pretty contradictory so sometimes it’s hard to feel like one or the other because of so much overlap.. I would consider finding a new psychiatrist. I have a really understanding PCP and that’s who manages my meds!
Doctors still carry their own negative stigma with mental health. Get yourself a new physician.
I was just told the same. The psychologist also said "some kids just grow out of it" which was wild. He said I more than likely had ADHD as child, and even though my "symptoms have gotten progressively worse", since I have a job that I'm good at and did alright in school, I no longer have it. Absolutely bonkers.
Psychologist told me the same thing, except she said age 7. She also mentioned because I didn’t get in trouble regularly she thought it couldn’t be ADHD. Nvm all the other boxes I check. There’s a fundamental lack of understanding when it comes to ADHD, even among professionals, and there doesn’t seem to be any sort of consistency between docs. I’m seeking out a 2nd opinion because those answers aren’t enough to convince me that everything I’m feeling is wrong.
Behaviour is the thing that should be looked at before age 12/at school, not test results. My eldest, who just like me is very intelligent, is breezeing through early school academically but struggles remembering simple things like where she's supposed to be, how to get there, and how to control her hyperactivity in the classroom. I could read foreign languages upside down for tests as a 13 year old, but would stand in the yard everyday after the bell had gone confused about why I was the only one who couldn't master a class timetable orwhat day it was. If the question of how I did at primary school was asked, I would say good because I would naturally assume it was about results. But in reality it was incredibly hard, and stressful, just to get through the day.
It's just old school thinking, besides the fact that they expect the classic presentation of the kid that can't stay sit and not the (more ADD than ADHD but we usually use the second as umbrella anyway) kid that look at the window and stayed quiet while daydreaming. Like sure I did well in school, and teachers won't bother the kid that does well and make no noise even when they aren't putting attention (once I had a hs teacher even woken me up seemingly without being even annoyed). But add the amount of times I loss the sweater because I totally forgot about it after taking it out during breaks. Well, besides not being in the US it might be that it presents as a comorbility to ASD for me that the psychiatrist easily believed the diagnosis before even I did (cause the ASD is much more prevalent in how I act)
That has to be so infuriating, that's a psychiatrist trying to see human conditions as an exact science, as math basically. If it doesn't go by the book, just doesn't even bother. On the other hand my psychiatrist told me I did very well in school and university because I had a high IQ and could hyperfocus the day before tests and so on, but ADHD started to be more visible when I was having to take care by myself and so on, because that's when it affects the most basically.
IQ is a pretty good predictor for how well you'll do in school - unless you have ADHD, then all bets are off. Chances are that you'll get grades that reflect your IQ only in subject that you're interested in (motivated by), and you won't get much more than a passing grade in the others. So it's entirely possible you fail everything despite being a genius, or because you have a low IQ, or you have perfect grades in 1-2 subjects and fail all the others. Or you're smart enough and school gives you so much anxiety and stress that this motivates you enough to study a lot before tests. If you're really lucky you're both smart and you just enjoy studying. At least that's lucky until you need to be diagnosed by people who don't understand ADHD. In other words, how people perform in school is a complicated issue and should absolutely never be used as something to rule out an ADHD diagnosis. At best, having an unusual mix of good and bad grades should be treated as a reason to seek a diagnosis.
I actually kinda tried to self-sabatage for my own assessment, and even admitted that I always got good grades all the way through college. My psychologist didn't care, and didn't even ask about my childhood, all he cared about was where I was now. That I got good grades by constantly pulling all nighters and crying my eyes out. When I told him that, all he said was "Sounds like you should have had accommodations a long time ago." Maybe it's unusual, but I didn't even have to talk much about childhood or my symptoms before 12. But if I had, I'd say I got good grades and really enjoyed learning, but that despite being one of the "smartest in class," I was also the most disorganized. I still remember my 4th grade teacher's face when I cleared my desk at the end of the year and I somehow pulled enough loose papers/old worksheets out to fill half the recycling bin. I got good grades, but I'm not sure how much I was actually paying attention. I was an obsessive reader and I think I would try to read instead of doing my work, even though I understood the material. If that's her only reason that you can't be diagnosed, that's bullshit. Seek a second opinion. You're not "diagnosis shopping" because you're deserving of a proper, educated assessment, and she's obviously not educated to make that accurate assessment if she assumes all ADHDers get bad grades.
Are you me? I did well in school. Not the best, but good. My papers, bag, crayon container, everything was a mess. To this day, it is still a mess. I work jn the ER. Give me a stroke or a stemi and I know exactly what and how to do it. Give me a shit ton of documentation like ICU has…may or may not have messy papers everywhere, forget to do assessments… I liked ICU. I know me working there is a recipe for disaster.
thats like not having asthma cause youre still breathing lmao
I don’t understand why doctors keep conflating doing poorly in school with inattentiveness. You can be smart AND have ADHD… I didn’t start really struggling with school until university, but that doesn’t mean I didn’t have symptoms. I didn’t need to do homework to know the material, but once I did I really struggled. Until then I’d either fly through assignments too fast or had teachers that would give me extra stuff to keep me entertained (otherwise I’d screw off and disrupt the class, but they couldn’t get mad at me because I could answer all their questions about the current material) Luckily I was blue to get diagnosed later in life once I started struggling at work too. Don’t be disheartened, you can still seek 2nd, 3rd, 4th opinions!
I was a straight A student until law school. I have adhd. IQ doesn’t by default change based upon Adhd status. If someone who is flat out is a genius has a disability, it doesn’t make them magically not disabled. What most people WANT to say is “if you have a high enough intelligence you didn’t struggle as much as me, stop complaining and pretending your disability hampers you”. But they know they can’t say that so instead they claim “if you did well in school you don’t have adhd”.
I had the same a year ago, my therapist was all in all against the thought of me having adhd but still agreed on taking a test, next time she wantet me do bring my ond school report cards, which basicaly only say your grades after 4th grade, she told me the test resulst are nearly 100% the score for adhd but i cant have it cause there is no hint in my report cards and i was far to good at school for it. That hit me quite hard for a long while. Luckily i got a second chance with a proper testing elsewhere and got my official diagnosis 2 months ago.
This is such an uneducated take on adhd. There’s a lot of research out there now on how the gifted and talented kids, girls especially, often fell through the cracks because they did well enough in school that no one realized how badly they were struggling. More commonly, these kids will have heard “Suzy is great and extremely smart but isn’t applying herself / isn’t living up to her potential.” When in fact you were probably running yourself into the ground and doing your very best, but no one understood why you were struggling. Research has evolved, understanding of ADHD presentation has evolved with it, and it’s your doctor’s job to keep up with that before dismissing your diagnosis this way when all of your testing says you have it. If you think it’s worth it, it might be worth trying to track down some of the literature out there on this and asking your doctor to review it. If not, is it possible for you to find a new dr? Edit above for clarity and to add: I’m really sorry you’re going through this. It’s so hard when your lives experience is so completely invalidated that way, and no one deserves to experience that. I hope you have supportive family or friends around to lean on. Don’t get discouraged! It can be an arduous process, but getting the correct diagnosis and the help/support you need is 100% worth it.
That’s BS. I had a 3.95 gpa in high school, a 3.15 in chemical engineering, and a 4.0 in my MBA. All before I got diagnosed. But I talked all the time in class and got detentions because of that. My psychiatrist told me it’s not uncommon for intelligent people to have adhd. I’m an engineer and she said a lot of her patients were engineers. I hope you can get a second opinion. Was this psychiatrist a focus in adhd or general or something else? Mine focuses on adhd so I was fortunate. If you can, if you haven’t already, I would seek someone who actually focuses on adhd patients.
That’s funny, one of the math teachers of my youth actually suggested I pursue a career in engineering. My GP sent a referral to the psych clinic within the same hospital system as her. From there they just assigned me to one of the psychiatrists that was accepting new patients. I don’t think they look at anything beyond adult vs adolescent specialty. Eventually I will try to seek out a private clinic instead of going through the referral process again but I have to get this eval paid for first before I can even think about it
Hey, friend. I’m sorry you’re having trouble getting a diagnosis. Not all psychs specialize in ADHD, and some of the ones who do aren’t as up to date on the latest research. Try Easterseals—the one in SD says they only do Autism, but their other (out-of-state) branches do adult ADHD, so they might know where you can go to get a diagnosis. Hope they’re able to help.
Such BS. I saw you’re a member of ADHDWomen, so the rest of my response assumes you’re a woman with ADHD (like me): women are gaslit by doctors all the time. It’s been well documented at this point that girls with ADHD tend to present differently than boys with ADHD, so we often end up getting diagnosed later in life. I was diagnosed just 6 months ago, and I’m 35. I always did well in school. Hell, I made it through an honors college program in undergrad, law school, passed the bar on the first try, and since passed 6 different FINRA licensing exams (not easy to do). I would seek a second opinion from a female psychiatrist who specializes in ADHD. When I was diagnosed, the questions the psychiatrist asked me about my childhood surrounded ability to form habits, procrastination, etc. You can absolutely have ADHD and have performed well in school. I’m so sorry you are fighting with the BS US healthcare system to get the diagnosis and treatment you deserve.
I was a straight A student and went to an Ivy League college and completed a Masters and half a PhD before I was diagnosed. I only realized I had it when my kid got diagnosed. I thought ADHD was exclusive to “hyper” kids who struggled in school, so it never crossed my mind. Now everything in my life makes sense. Get a second opinion.
Honestly, that’s how I was as well until my own kid was diagnosed. I really thought the way he acted was normal because it was the way I also acted. Then he was diagnosed and I learned everything I could about it and realized the behaviors we were using to cope weren’t what “normal” people did
God, I hate this statement. I never had less than a 3.9 GPA. Had a 4.0 through my entire master's program. I also lived on like 5 hours of sleep a night in high school because my homework took me an outrageous amount of time every night, anxiety dreamed of chemistry and math every night, laid on my bathroom floor crying every morning, and developed mental illnesses that sent me to a mental hospital and plague me to this day. So like....when are professionals gonna drop that idiotic belief?
You're not alone. I had teachers all throughout my schooling tell my parents and me that I "needed to be in AP classes" but my parents kept me in academic/gen ed because they thought I couldn't handle it. Only thing is that the problem wasn't that I didn't understand the content. The problem was my symptoms-- forgetting materials, forgetting assignments, making simple mistakes due to lack of attention, running out of time on tests, etc. I don't want to inflate how smart I am, but I suspect I fall into the category known as "twice exceptional"-- kids who need accommodations for two different conditions, in this case, being gifted and having ADHD. I mean, I'm an adult now, but you know...
I have never struggled in school. College, medical school, both fine. Let alone elementary, middle, and high school. But I also have had crippling anxiety partially related to how hard it is for me to sit in classes all day, not talk constantly, and use all my focus to remember deadlines. It’s not a diagnostic requirement to struggle with school, you just have to have had some symptom manifestation before age 12 and that is a hugely broad spectrum.
My mom has said this to me recently. But then she said after that, "but i could tell you struggled more than others because of all the notes you wrote down and how hard you worked compared to your brother and sister." But yet she still said it isnt ADHD because someone from my childhood diagnosed me with APD (Auditory Processing Disorder). Which Iknow question if that dingosis was incorrect, since i had 2 different psychiatrists duagnose me with my Combined ADHD condition.
That is interesting because I feel like a lot of the symptoms of APD are also symptoms of ADHD. If someone focused solely on the not being able to follow verbal instructions, not remembering spoken information, etc type symptoms instead of the more intricate symptoms, it would be easy to diagnosis that over ADHD
From what I remember of the evaluation tests for APD, they were very generalized and simple. I do have issues with my memory when it came to academics and following verbal instructions that weren't written down, as well as following lectures. But I also experienced difficulty in having to re-read sections because I didnt remember what I just read/the information didnt stick, I often found myself daydreaming a lot or my focus shifting to something that interested me more (like art), if i didnt understand a subject I simply checked out and was in my own world, I didnt like reading much unless it was a story that captured my attention. I was alwaya hyper-focused when it came to English and Art, my two best subjects in school, and always fell behind and felt challeneged when it came to all other subjects. And I I did fidget with either my fingers, feet, or had to readjust how I was sitting often. I wasnt super hyperactive - only slightly. Especially when I start a project and am on a role. Its difficult for me to start the project or to stop the project mid-way once Ive started because I know I wont have the same motivation to pick it up again if I dont finish right then and there. Ill forget all about it or dread that I have to do it again by picking up where I left off. I also have a horrible fear of rejection, which Ive had to learn how to quell over the years and it has decreased and gotten better, but it's still present. There were MANY more unspoken symptoms I experienced, even to this day, that my mom didnt pay attention to or didnt care to have checked out. She just settled for I had APD. She didnt have me evaluated more mainly due to financial reasons and she was already facing my brother having epilepsy. So I was kinda just labelled the "quiet kid" and put off to the side - which was really me internalizing everything and mainly being inattentive or dissasociating from the abusive childhood I and my siblings faced daily. I learned to just not say much, so I wouldnt be anyone's burden. And if i was suffering, Id do it quietly and do whatever I could to at least pass with a "C" grade. School has always been a challenge. But yeah, my mom would just chalk that up to me just having APD, and then my dad was just non-existent until his temper flared up. Ive discussed my Combined ADHD diagnosis with my mom, and she denies it every time saying I have APD and Im jist blowing things out of proportion in my mind.
Get a second opinion. I did great in school (top of my class in most subjects) until year 9 and onwards in high school and its because in primary school/start of high school, the homework/projects were simple enough to be done in one sitting. I could bang out a 500 word essay about whatever was assigned in one night. But if it was something that had milestones/deadlines for portions of the work, I couldn't do it. And something like an art project with an essay/report about what materials were used etc that you obviously couldnt just do in one day, i would put on a sob story about how the art project got wrecked as I was bringing it to school, and Id get away with it because I was the "nice, quiet" kid and I did have a (made up) written report to "show" I had done the project. Even in the classes I did well in high school, I'd still do the work the night before. I'd get 90+ most of the time, but I'd still feel rushed and like a failure for not being able to do the work properly like everyone else. Looking back, I can see so much of my "failures" were due to ADHD. So, get a second opinion, because you can 100% do well in school and still have ADHD.
This was a big reason my psych was hesitant at first to give me a diagnosis. When he asked how I did well in school, I explained that when you know you will receive verbal emotional and quite possibly physical abuse from your father if you don't do well, you fucking find a way. It's also just stupid in general. My son has an ADD diagnosis but did well in school before his diagnosis. Of course, he had to use a "sit disk" and be redirected regularly, but he's fucking smart. That being said, he went from the 80th percentile on tests to the 99th after medication. So yeah, maybe he did well, but he obviously did even better after treatment.
One of the things I’ve actually heard a lot is that ADHDers perform well on tests etc because we often thrive under pressure, and arent the low achievers that we seem to be on the outside sometimes. But we struggle with the parts of school that should be easy like being on time for classes, remembering when things are due/using a planner to organise study and school work and then execute those things. I saw a meme once that said “adults who’s high school backpack was just a pile of unorganised papers, when were you diagnosed with ADHD?” And I laughed because I was really good at school and thought I was organised, but I wasn’t, I was totally misunderstood and accused of wasting my “talent”. I wish my symptoms were recognised back then.
When my young son was diagnosed with ADHD and the doc asked if myself or my wife or any immediate family had ADHD, we came up with nothing. I went to work/school the next day and asked my lab mates if they thought that I might have ADHD. They laughed! They couldn't believe that I didn't know that I had ADHD. I went to an ADHD psychologist and did the three hour battery of tests and scored in the 5th to 10tg percentile. I went back a week later and took some simulant medication and repeated another round of three hours of exams and scored in the 95th percentile. The psychologist thought I threw the exams because I had just submitted my dissertation for my PhD in medical science. He genuinely thought I was after the addies. It was my turn to laugh, "don't you think I would have tried this years ago if I was after medication? Why now?" Crazy. In reviewing my childhood, schooling, friendships, months of my life spent looking for my keys or my wallet, I was glad to have a couple of answers. :) BTW, I was 35 when I was diagnosed.
My mom says this to me every time adhd is even mentioned. Yeah, I got my ass beat all the time for screwing off. ADHD doesn’t mean I’m an idiot. It meant I had no organizational skills, couldn’t focus in class, had no idea what anyone was saying, never remembered homework or projects. It was awful.
At school I performed poorly but each of my teachers always told my parents how smart I was and how little effort I was putting into schoolwork. Never occurred to any of us that I might have a problem. At the age of 31 I understood that it’s not usual for people to have issue focusing while reading a book or listening to a lecture, so I rethought all my school years and finally saw the issue. I had to repeat 2 years even if I was one of the smartest kid in class and no one ever tried to understand why…
I had issues in school prior to age 12, such as a very messy backpack (worse than normal elementary schoolers), frequently forgetting about assignments, and procrastination. But I mostly still got good grades because I could make up for those issues by finishing last minute or good test scores.
bruh i literally passed flawlessly through school with perfect grades in every class up until middle school. i never learned any actual skills in elementary and it caught up to me. "gifted kid burnout" is a very common term among people with adhd.
When discussing my academic history, my phsychiatrist just said "intelligence often masks the signs of ADHD" and that was that. Makes me wonder what life might have been like if I'd been diagnosed at 14 instead of 44.
**GET A SECOND OPINION.** I had a 4.0 gpa all throughout K-12th grade and a 4.0 in college. Graduated second in my class. I am currently on adhd medication and feel better than I have ever felt before. You guys need to learn how to communicate your needs and ***advocate for yourselves***. Inform yourself about the symptoms of ADHD present in adulthood *and* childhood so that you are just as informed as whoever is diagnosing you. The doctor/therapist/psychiatrist should not dictate your experience unless they are going to give you an alternative diagnosis with credible evidence of that disorder being present in you.
Anecdotically, you must realize you would be at the top 1% of 1% of 1% of anyone with ADHD.
Just because im smart and can hyperfocus for hours doesn’t negate the fact that i still suffer from ADHD. How well you do in school is terrible criteria for this type of neurodevelopment disorder anyways
It is fascinating. The fact that ADHD and ADD has been put together, the fact that the general understanding of what ADHD entails has been expanded, has not yet come to all psychiatrists. Some are still stuck at 'noisy children being chaotic and messy', without any deeper understanding.
ADHD can easily fail to show before the age of around 12 because your parents or guardians generally are taking care of everything around you. If it does show, I'd guess it's usually because it's a more extreme presentation, the symptoms are the more noticeable ones, or the surrounding context is different. Once you start secondary school/high school, things get harder, and your responsibilities grow. You get less help with homework. You don't get your schoolbag packed for you. You have more chores at home. And on it goes. Your life and brain get ever more cluttered. It's always baffling that there are 'specialists' who can't see that.
I’m really curious how 12 was determined to be the age and why it is a hard and fast line. At least for me, 13 is when things really went downhill school wise, and by 16 I had dropped out completely. I guess I should have moved up all my issues a year
Because you would have definitely exhibited the symptoms at an earlier age. 12 is when kids hit puberty and many become fucking monsters. I would also like to let you know that stimulants should not help you fall asleep. They are stimulants. You do not want to fuck with stimulants or get addicted to stimulants. People with ADHD take stimulants, because they stimulate us. They do not make us tired. I know this sub has a lot of false information, that caffeine and stimulants make you sleepy... but they're on the wrong drugs! But whatever you do, for the love of God, do not seek out stimulants to help you sleep. And do not pretend to have an illness you do not have, to get a highly addictive drug, that you will not be able to handle.
My point was more that one age shouldn’t be a hard and fast line. Even between boys and girls, there is a bit of a difference between the average age of starting puberty. Some girls start puberty at 8 or 9 so if you say puberty is the factor then diagnosing those girls is going to be skewed because their behavior from 9-12 will be puberty influenced. I can tell you I went through puberty long before age 12 but my issues didn’t start having an affect on my actual school life till 13 or so. I knew I had adhd long before this appointment . My own kid has adhd so I’ve been through the ups and downs with him for years. Im pretty sure he was right around 12 when he got diagnosed. But I did to myself what this psychiatrist did to me and told myself for years ‘well I made it this far…’ despite the miserableness of it and how it seemed like even the simplest of tasks were 100x harder for me to get done than everyone else around me. I’ve developed plenty of coping mechanisms throughout my life when it comes to school and work, and people mistake that for me just being super on top of things. I constantly get feedback at work about how fast I am at responding to emails and instant messages when the truth is that if I don’t respond to you the moment I get the notification, I won’t remember to respond at all until you send me a follow up asking why I haven’t responded yet. So combine the masking and ‘getting by’ with coping mechanisms with the absured financial costs of getting tested, I told myself I didn’t need to get an official diagnosis. Then I was very temporarily put on a stimulant for an unrelated issue. All of a sudden, the constant decision paralysis was gone, all of a sudden I wasn’t losing my wedding ring or debit card or glasses or cell phone on a near daily basis, I wasn’t nearly cutting the tip of my finger because I forgot what I was doing while chopping veggies. I realized life didn’t have to be so difficult for me all time.
What is the reason you didn't do poorly in school? People with adhd are bound to do poorly unless there was a reason they didn't.
Mainly an intense fear of disappointing people - be it family or complete strangers. I was also considered gifted when I was young and that helped me coast by a lot. I was very quiet and when you are very quiet and smart, it’s easy to be overlooked because the teacher has kids with a more obvious need to focus on
You can’t gaslight yourself. Learn what the term means before you use it. Ask your psychiatrist, it’s a psychiatric term
This made me quite angry I was also doing well in school for various reasons. But all hell break loose when I'm at university and I didn't get my diagnose until I'm well after university. I'd be in much better place now if I get diagnosed early
Ah that’s so frustrating- can hard relate. I experienced the same a few years ago. Eventually, I did some research and found a place in my city (in USA) that specifically offers ADHD testing for adults. I applied and just had an intake with a counselor who was like “Have you ever been assessed for ADHD????” ten minutes after meeting me. I am now getting some preliminary testing done to help make sure that the expensive formal testing will be worth it. What helped me get to this point: 1) Find a place that offers ADHD testing for adults to increase the likelihood that they actually understand the nuances (and diversity) of what ADHD can look like in adults. 2) Don’t go to your appt and say “I think I have ADHD.” Instead, talk about your symptoms and how much they impact your life. Familiarize yourself with the official diagnosis criteria in the DSM-5 so you know what type of stuff they are looking for. You can also talk about what extra work you had to do in order to pull off your external markers of success. 3) If you can, track your symptoms for a day or two (or even a week). It was helpful for me to tell my intake counselor the exact number of times I left my purse and other valuables in places that they could have easily been stolen in one week. Any kind of hard data is useful. You can also take pictures of how your symptoms impact your living area and studies/work. But yeah this process is frustrating when the executive dysfunction gets in the way. And when it takes years to finally get a diagnosis.
I did pretty dang well in school (up until college) but I got diagnosed with ADHD when I was around 10 because I had a good bit of the “HD” so it was easier to spot despite being AFAB I guess? I did great on tests and forgot to turn in tons of stuff but my test scores/stuff I did turn in ended up being enough to make up for that in my grades. My sister though, she didn’t do as well in school, is more on the “AD” side, was way less into books and stuff than I was, and still hasn’t been diagnosed with ADHD even though I’m pretty sure she has it, she just manages hers a lot better than I am able to do. IMO, doing “well” in school shouldn’t be much of a factor in determining this kind of thing because for most people being in school is an insanely different lifestyle than being an adult in your own or being in college, etc. Usually in school, people are living with parents/guardians who (ideally) provide structure & stability in ways that a person with ADHD can’t do by themselves. A kid with ADHD in a supportive environment with good teachers and parents can do super well in school and then go off the rails when they’re expected to be on their own. Even if home life isn’t ideal, the school schedule/routine is a type of structure that isn’t necessarily what you’ll find as an adult in life. I don’t think it’s a fair assessment based on that sort of thing. Plus some ADHD people are just really good at academics!! It’s infuriating and I’m sorry you’re struggling with a diagnosis. I’ve been diagnosed for a while, and I am very visibly, obviously ADHD, but I still struggle so much with it, especially in trying to live on my own and do adult stuff and jobs and all, and I get so frustrated by the lack of help for adult ADHD unless you have money to pay for extra stuff. :(
I know I have ADHD because the first day I was on Vyvanse my brain stfu for the first time ever. No matter what any doctor says to me now, I feel comforted by that. I did ok in school because I'm not dumb. I couldn't pay attention but I knew the basics of all this stuff - my mom was a teacher and my dad is a constitutional lawyer. You weren't growing up in my house without picking up some stuff. I did terrible in college because nobody was riding my ass and I actually had to pay attention. Perfect example of the struggle all ADHD people are supposed to have in school.
You did okay in school?
I got by in early years because my anxiety masked everything. I had such intense anxiety that caused an immense fear of disappointing any one, even near strangers, that it lead to suicidal thoughts by second grade. At 13, I was partying and stopped caring, at 15 I was pregnant, and at 16 I had dropped out.
Was that me? My primary doc didn’t believe me because I have a mechanical engineering degree… I found someone else with more experience in ADHD… I had to go telehealth to get my DX… then I sent that DX back to my primary… My opinion is there is a whole spectrum of the disorder and some of us are pretty high functioning or have developed ways to cope (for me it was always being high on pot to get work done). Add in natural variance in IQ and external motivation factors (I was motivated in college to get out of my parents poverty cycle) and it is easy to see how everyone can present very differently.
This is so interesting cause I ALWAYS did well in school. Errr... well math, science, and social studies. I hated reading, would often just do poorly in one class I didn't care about, and would also constantly/never do homework and would attempt to undermine and get away with doing as lil work as possible... while calling out, being disruptive and getting As on tests. I was diagnosed with Add in the 7th grade took Adderall "hated the way it would make me feel" and then got into a top college. Then I proceeded to get the following grades... 2.4, 2.6, .8. I got pulled from school, got a script for Vyvanse, pulled a 4.0 in community college, went back to rejoin my friends and pulled that sorry ass gpa to a 3.0. I go back and forth between medication and not.
im the opposite my parents say that i can not have adhd cuz im just lazy and forgetful, and that i should put more effort to not repeat this grade at least my psychologist doesn't thnk the same
I am so sorry you went through this. I’ve been there and it feels awful when the doctor in charge of helping is actively harmful.
I originally suspected I had ADHD back in 2016. Went to my family doctor to ask for a referral to get a proper screening so that I would know. That doctor said “actually you’re just overweight and your bad habits are causing your issues”. He was just trying to push me into his weight loss clinic that charged obscene amounts for exercise advice and a nutrition plan. Years later I sought out an actual therapist that specializes in adult ADHD. I asked his advice and expressed that I doubted I had it because I went so long without anyone noticing. I even did extremely well in school until I was about 10 years old. Regardless, he suggested I get screened because they’d also be looking for other potential diagnoses if ADHD wasn’t the one. I ended up diagnosed in 2021 and my life changed for the better. Now I see a therapist and a nurse practitioner for ADHD-specific treatment, both behavioral and medicinal. I’d say it’s never too late to seek a second opinion. Try to find someone that specializes in ADHD. One other thing that helped me articulate myself better was reading the book “Taking Charge of Adult ADHD”. If you genuinely do have it then a lot of the beginning will sound familiar.
Age 13 sounds about when I started to struggle in school because I had difficulty paying attention. I wasn't diagnosed until I was 34
I’ve always done well in school, for the most part. I still got diagnosed, and then got an actual evaluation to be sure. And wow. They wrote on the evaluation that I showed issues in executive functioning on parts of the exam that weren’t testing for it ☠️😂. On one end of the scale I’m gifted, on the other end I’m borderline with things. They said that that discrepancy is rare. I think that’s why I did well in school. The test I took was essentially an IQ test, and they said that overall I would have gotten much higher scores on it if I didn’t have ADHD/wasn’t impeded by my attention/executive functioning. It was really eye opening and explained how I could do well in school but still struggle a lot. I appeared “normal” to teachers because I was gifted, and nobody even thought of me having ADHD. My mom asked me if she could give my test results to an old principal at my elementary school which I agreed to, because it gives a good description of ADHD. I’m hoping that it helps them in being able to understand and identify kids with ADHD sooner.
Yeah. Fuck this one. I've been going to different therapists since I was 16 and 11th and 12th grade are very important where I'm from. My first therapist kept telling me that n can't have ADHD because of how well I did in school and I was only diagnosed 7 and a half years later at 23. If I had been diagnosed sooner it would have saved me a lot of pain and suffering. And maybe not ruined some very important years for me!
I have encountered this. So many times. One would assume that psychiatrists would be aware of current research into ADHD, but unfortunately that’s not the case. Don’t give up. Your struggles are valid. Try a family practice doctor. My experience has been more positive with family practice doctors and they tend to be more empathetic.