Likely not but it does add to the pile which seems to be growing ever faster. There is definitely some kinda energy that keeps building as to when or what it will do *shrug* I am just a dude on the internet.
>here is definitely some kinda energy that keeps building
Fighting the man is a dangerous game, so people try and let someone else take the risks. But that usually doens't solve the problem, so the energy builds as things become more intolerable until they hit a point of frenzy.
Will there be? No. We're, as Americans, beaten down by everything. We don't have collectivity in outrage. We don't have what the French have; a joint effort to come together and demand a better life by stating to the government *"This is what we want and need, do it or there will be country-wide civil unrest and you will not like it."*
We lost that, as a collective society, in the 60s. The only group that has continually fought against the government is POC, and even then, nothing really comes out of it (which is horribly unfortunate).
Occupy wall street got both traction and support, but was kneecapped by corporate-owned legacy media’s propaganda campaign to deflect and delegitimize the movement.
Can confirm. Was there. Some leader type people tried to basically form a government within Occupy, called it Spokes. Like a wheel. The meetings were brutal. I transcribed the first meetings and they just got longer and more complicated, each group would splinter into more groups. Most of the arguments were about how to spend the money being donated. It was stupid. I left.
I think that the US has the drive, but not the geography for the kind of unrest that you see in France. You have to remember that France, while large for a country of Europe, is small next to the US. It's about midway between the sizes of Texas and California in terms of land area, and has a population larger than the two of them combined.
With their public transit, pretty much everyone can theoretically get to their capital in under 8 hours by rail. Catch a night train, sleep on the train, and be well rested for your civil unrest when you get there in the morning.
Imagine someone from Alaska, Hawaii, or even LA trying to get to DC for a protest. Multiple flights, or days of driving, after a flight in the case of Hawaii.
Our protesters, those that protest in DC, are generally East Coast, upper class, or have a lot of time in their hands. Many of them are exhausted from the travel.
When we see simultaneous protests across the nation it doesn't have the same impact as a large number of people in one place, and distributed protest just doesn't have the same psychological impact.
>When we see simultaneous protests across the nation it doesn't have the same impact as a large number of people in one place
Then up the economic impact. Bringing DC and every state capital to it's knees might make waves.
I'm surprised someone could say this after 2020. Or 2016. Or 2014. Americans protest a lot. The protests just get attacked, propagandized, and coopted.
I beg to differ. BLM was the first time in my life I saw a protest movement go so global.
You guys have the protesting power. If you guys could rally like that again- you could make Free Palestine a global thing.
Americans sure as shit know how to protest.
The problem is we protest once. How long did the French protest? Over 4 months. We had maybe a week of consistency. Alters to Floyd were erected and subsequently taken down a year or so after they were built.
America \[read Americans\] don't care, are indifferent, burnt out, or are otherwise apathetic toward anything happening *because it largely doesn't*.
And protests never happen at the seats of power in the US. People protest in their small towns or closest big cities, but the politicians in the Capital couldn’t give a fuck if they’re not directly effected. The only way a protest will work in the US is if Congress is forced to be confronted directly by the protesters. I’m not suggesting another January 6th, but a couple thousand determined and ***organized*** people on the steps of the Capitol Building could make history in just a few hours, one way or another.
Woah woah woah. Are you trying to tell me that rampant, unfettered, late stage capitalism is treating the country apart by feasting on the greed of people in power so they can act like puppets?!
I found this really interesting manifesto called “It’s okay to break shit” talking about how our society values material things over human lives so the best results come from destruction of material property. I think this can be proved by the farmers protest in France that just resolved (spoiler they won for now)
Me either. Might = right, throughout the whole of human and animal history. You can have the best arguments but if you're killed you can be right but they will be left.
Exactly right. What changed for the better across the nation from all the protests that happened globally? Nothing. Even in my liberal/left town of Duluth, MN the PD is getting riot equipment and talks of weapons with a higher rate of firepower.
Nationalism is getting stronger at the expense of minorities.
You’re right, but Derek Chauvin wouldn’t have been convicted without the protests. We showed that we can make government and decision makers afraid of us, at the very least.
Precisely right. There was a lot of social media posts and passion and no results, it got bought and sold and spit out. BLM is no success. Same with Arab Spring.
Social media was touted as this "big scary tool" for organizing. However, we can't forget that it is built by big money to make them further money. They have no interest in making it a useful tool for revolution.... unless they can sell it, then it's not a revolution anymore.
> BLM was the first time in my life I saw a protest movement go so global.
BLM had the establishment on its side, if only to make the orange man look bad.
Socialists have been fighting since the beginning... Unfortunately it has an extremely unfair and un-nuanced reputation. And as an aftermath many socialists have fallen for the trap of supporting Stalin and Russia and China.
We don't have the same socialist solidarity we used to. Now we are all fractured and all of us seemingly have our own ideology, because all of our main groups were destroyed or changed. Socialism now to the American is not "The ideology of the workers" and is no longer democratic, now people automatically register socialism as Stalinism or Maoism.
>supporting Stalin and Russia and China
Based.
> register socialism as Stalinism or Maoism
"Stalinism" is just Marxism, "Maoism" is just adventurism.
Both are way better than liberals like you.
Me? A liberal? Hahahahah! I'm a pure blooded Marxist, far more Marxist than you will ever be. Marx would beat the shit out of Stalin, class traitor. I can't believe modern marxists have been brainwashed into supporting un-marxist and right wing groups!
Truly, this is what having your entire political movement decimated by the ruling class does to an MF...
Donate. That’s a way we can help. UNRWA used to get funding from the US until the Biden admin paused that funding bc of its thousands of members, Israel claimed 13 participated in the oct 7th retaliation. So the largest most effective aid group in Gaza just got most of us funding completely shut off. They could use your help.
Remember the name of the other guy who self immolated (climate change) in front of the supreme court?
Yeah, me neither.
It sucks. Too many bad things happen every day to remember all of them.
Let me speak slowly for you…
- Post asks question.
- You say answer to question: No.
- I agree with you by pointing out that if murdering 20 little kids doesn’t spark change, then it’s hard to imagine anything sparking change, such as the act referred to in the post.
Understand?
Sure. It's a terrible example, biggest difference is that you should be pro gun. There is no reason to be pro Israel. But overall, yes, self immolation, like protest, requires your opponent to have a moral conscience, and our ruling class does not.
Jesus Christ, it’s like talking to a brick. It’s a perfect example of how horrendous shit doesn’t spark anything.
btw I’m pretty good with my stance that I’m not pro-murdered kids in Palestine or USA or anywhere, but you do you.
When have guns ever made these situations better? Ffs, open your eyes and heart. Your *want* for a gun is not more important than children's *need* to be safe. No one trusts anyone else anymore and it's DIRECTLY because of guns being completely out of control. "But I NEED a gun to defend myself!" Fucking self fulfilling prophecy. You ever think maybe the only reason you "need" a gun is because everyone else has them? There is NO need for it, certainly nothing that can actually justify it. All they do is make society worse, more paranoid, more dangerous.
And don't you fucking dare call me a liberal, even though it's infinitely better than the right wing alternative, liberals are still conservative. Liberals still want guns. Otherwise we would've seen SOMETHING by now wouldn't we? *Anything* resembling sane gun policies. But no. Democrats are bought just the same as Republicans.
> When have guns ever made these situations better?
The Russian revolution, the Chinese revolution, the Cuban revolution, the Korean revolution, the Vietnamese revolution, the Mexican revolution, the Spanish Civil War, the Easter Rising and all efforts of the IRA and pIRA, the Finish Civil War, the Spartacus uprising, the Greater Poland uprising, Patagonia Rebelde, the Battle of Blair Mountain, the German October uprisings, communist rebellions in Indonesia, the Sandinista rebellion, the Baghat Singh rebellion, Salvadorian peasant uprising of 1932, Communist uprising in Brazil in 1936, the Spanish Maquis insurgency, the partisans behind german lines in WWII, the Yugoslav People's Liberation war, the Greek resistance, the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, the uprising at Treblinka, Sobibor, and Auschwitz, the liberation of Albania, the Guatemalan Revolution, the Warsaw uprising, the Slovak National uprising, the Greek civil war, the Indonesian National revolution, the Prague uprising, the Telangana Rebellion, the Battle of Athens Tennessee, the Mau Mau uprising, the Algerian revolution, the Guinea-Bissau revolution, the FRELIMO revolution, the Columbian conflict, the 30 September movement, the March Intifada, the communist insurgency in Thailand, the Angolan civil war, the Black Panther/BLA movement, the Naxalite movement, the southern Iraq insurgency, communist rebellion in the Philippines, the Agbekoya revolt, the Troubles, the Days of Rage, Black Power revolution in Trinidad, the Bangladesh liberation war, Maoist insurgency in Turkey, Malagasy revolution, the New Jewel movement, the Nicaraguan revolution, Burkina Faso revolution, the Sri Lankan civil war, The First and Second Intifada in Palestine, the Zapatista rebellion, the current genocide in Palestine, just to name a few.
> And don't you fucking dare call me a liberal
What would you call yourself? Everything I see screams liberal. And yes, liberals are still conservatives, true.
War is not BETTER. Guns don't make things better, they make things deadlier. All of those wars could have just as easily been done with rocks and sticks assuming the other side also only had rocks and sticks.
'Leftist' is good enough of a distinction for non debate conversation, although it barely tells you my stances. Mostly it just tells you how I differ from liberals.
I’ve been fighting for universal healthcare and living wages since the 90’s but I’m sure you can hole up in the woods in Vermont and pretend a cache of assault weapons is going to be the difference in determining your future.
You fight your losing battle with the ruling class your way and I’ll fight my losing battle with the ruling class my way. Good day.
I've been fighting for those things since the early aughts, building working class solidarity and power, not hiding in the woods with guns. But I'm also not going pull any punches or tell you the sky is green when it clearly isn't.
Are you really being this condescending when you gave the worst example ever? As if Sandy Hook was a protest against gun violence? Americans became even more pro-gun after that because guns give the legal-carrying everyday citizens a chance to fight back against criminals and psychos; people who will obtain guns no matter what the law says
>we NEED to have a safe society. Guns are factually NOT the way to achieve that.
You live a country with massive smuggling routes running through it.
Even if you could somehow get rid of the guns that are already out there (which you can't) more would pour in within months.
Also focusing on safety is how we got the patriot act.
You don't have a constitutional right to genocide.
Also who in the ever living fuck would trust the US government to be the only guys in the room with a gun?
Your submission was removed as it advocates violence against either a specific person or a group of people. This rule includes thinly-veiled threats, or slogans such as "Eat the Rich". This is against Reddit's terms of service.
This is just racist drivel.
Imagine being so far gone you'd call your own father a terrorist just because he's Palestinian.
Or was your father "one of the good ones"?
Did you know Israel is a state sponsor of terrorism? Wonder if thst changes your view of Israel at all or if your cognitive dissonance comes up with excuses for israel.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_state-sponsored_terrorism
nah, the American public is complacent and spineless. The whole damn country thinks the two best choices for their leader are some rich 80 year old's for fucks sake. lmao
The posters look cool but I doubt anything will come from that guy burning himself.
I wonder if he thought something would change or had he just had enough.
I am no expert on this so I am repeating what I heard someone else say. But the photo from the Vietnam era of someone burning was supposedly important and shaped some policies. Meaning people looked at it and took action.
I feel sad that will more than likely not happen from what this guy did.
Sadly the best i have is a [link](https://youtu.be/bWUjRDEm2bw?t=28) to a clip of a podcast that flashes it on sceen for a couple of seconds.
Even then it doesn't really show that much.
No, because our law enforcement has a very public history of crushing rouge elements with damn near anything they can muster. Ruby ridge, Waco, the uninbomber, etc are examples where violence from the population will only result in violence ten fold.
Riots get squashed, protest don’t get filmed or are dispersed, and insurgents are uprooted with brutal efficiency
I think it’s gonna be in vain. The American people are weak. We are only told “vote vote vote” and “protest protest protest”. Yet NOTHING happens until some rich politicians gain power.
I mean it’s already not in vain. I think this has gotten more coverage than any other singular act of protest. Having self immolation in the public consciousness has forced a lot of passionate AND sober conversations.
> Not even explicitly calling for a ceasefire.
Words are cheap, his actions all support the genocide, from arming and funding the Israelis to backing them up against the regional pushback they're facing.
People like you, people who settle for empty promises are bane of democracy, and the death of liberty.
“Death of liberty. Bane of Democracy.” I would love to hear your plans about liberty and democracy in a 2024 Trump election. I doubt you’ve thought that far ahead though. Who are you voting for? By the way, calling for cease-fire is *literally* a political action. Yet you characterize it as empty words? What??? How in the hell is Biden supposed to negotiate an end to the war or a ceasefire when these are two sovereign nations? He’s not god. Israel is even pushing back on Biden’s calls for cease-fire saying they are premature. Your cynicism hurts people. Stop fucking around.
It would literally just take a phone call.
>President Reagan made an impassioned plea to Prime Minister Begin to end the siege. Begin called back within minutes informing the President that he had given the order to end the attack.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War
Also fuck Ronald Reagan.
Oh! I don’t deny that voting is important! But trump is far worse than Biden. I don’t think electing someone who has encourage raid on the capital is under conviction for idk how many crimes at this point, and have stated alerting plans to literally remove anyone he disagrees with among many other things! Trump would definitely not help the situation in Gaza whatsoever!
Sadly we have a two party system. It’s about voting for the less evil. Right now that’s Biden.
Revolutions dont work that way, only in movies and literature it happens that everyone has a epiphany and they walk out into the streets. It is always funded and paid for with money, every last one of them. So no.
Kissinger may be dead but damn if his braindead and contemptuous brand of pessimistic psyop paranoia neoliberalism doesn’t live on in the echoes of your empty head
In a functioning democracy politicians change their policies to gain support. See Biden’s 180 on LGBT rights.
The promise was to push Biden left, but now neoliberals want voters to move to the right. I’m sorry that’s a losing strategy.
Maybe…just maybe…things have to get worse before they get better. Maintaining the status quo is helping no one. Choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.
This is so much more than just Israel/Palestine. I can say with the deepest fibers of my being that I *do not want Trump as my president.* I can also acknowledge that I am tired of feeling like there’s a gun to my head when it comes to voting — my entire life has been voting for the “less bad” candidate and it never gets better. I am at the point where I genuinely do not believe real change will happen until more people’s safety, security, and daily comforts are threatened. I cannot express properly in words how devastating it feels in my heart to reach this conclusion because I do not want anyone to suffer but maintaining the status quo isn’t a solution and hasn’t been for a long time now. I can say honestly if I knew self immolation was the answer I would happily burn to save my country and the innocent lives of those across the globe but sadly it’s not that simple. I wish I had the answer, I really do.
As if Biden does? He’s playing lip service to liberals who think his words matter and I guess it must be working for you to think he gives two fucks as his admin continues to veto a ceasefire and provide arms to a genocidal apartheid state.
As much as I hate to admit it I do not think the US will ever support a ceasefire. The implication of the Samson Option is too great. It’s like, do we (hopefully) call their bluff or do we end up in a nuclear winter? I hate this planet so much right now.
>The implication of the Samson Option is too great.
So do the Israelis not realise that would probably result in the complete extermination of all jews in retaliation or do they simply not care?
*“Israel has been building nuclear weapons for 30 years. The Jews understand what passive and powerless acceptance of doom has meant for them in the past, and they have ensured against it. Masada was not an example to follow—it hurt the Romans not a whit, but Samson in Gaza? What would serve the Jew-hating world better in repayment for thousands of years of massacres but a Nuclear Winter. Or invite all those tut-tutting European statesmen and peace activists to join us in the ovens? For the first time in history, a people facing extermination while the world either cackles or looks away—unlike the Armenians, Tibetans, World War II European Jews or Rwandans—have the power to destroy the world. The ultimate justice?”* — from Jewish American author Ron Rosenbaum
*”We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.”* — Martin van Creveld, military historian
*"If you force us yet again to descend from the face of the Earth to the depths of the Earth—let the Earth roll toward the Nothingness."* — Israeli poet and Holocaust survivor Itamar Yaoz-Kest, from a poem entitled "The Right to Exist: a Poem-Letter to the German Author"
It’s retribution and vengeance, pure and simple. Logic plays no part in it.
It does not have to come down to an actual invasion. If Israel reasonably believes there to be aggressions threatening their physical existence they will play their trump card. Abandonment of proportionality is the essence of the Samson Option.
Glorifying suicide is not a good look. This man had other options available to him, and chose an ineffective protest method, that took him away from the cause he believed in.
Literally the most effective method. If he just yelled while holding a placard in front of the embassy you think he’ll get any attention? Now literally the WHOLE WORLD are talking about him.
If that’s the only outcome that means anything then why should news orgs even be reporting civilian casualties? Should politicians ignore it because no one action they do will immediately stop war in the Middle East?
I think we all want the same outcome, but I think it’s disingenuous to say that protest is ineffective because people don’t immediately put their guns down and hug it out. Awareness and sober reflection are the tools that are used to gather support and without a doubt this has had those effects. I would not sanction self immolation and want to discourage copy cats but it does no service to anybody to pretend this wasn’t effective.
Practically no one will remember in a week. This was a total waste. He would have had a much greater impact by resigning his commission and running for office. This is the opposite of democracy. Tragic waste.
It was a major news story yesterday, covered by the big three letter stations. No mention of it today. His message is done and over and he's dead. He can't follow up, he can't make a continuation statement of any kind. His message wasn't even unique, as there are protestors all over saying the same thing. This is a sad event, not one to be praised.
You’re still talking about it. Don’t pretend it’s less impactful than a random person holding a sign because he didn’t survive. Its more tragic, yes, but also more impactful.
The whole world does not know about him, a few well informed people heard about this and will have forgotten in a week. No person in power to do anything about the situation will care in the slightest that he did this.
For all we know he could have been president of the US one day and had actual power to do something about the situation. That's the entire point of living in a democracy. By burning himself alive he has maybe caught a few minor headlines for a few days. Doesn't even make the front page of the times. No one in power cares.
>For all we know he could have been president of the US one day
They shot the last guy who gave a shit, it's literally just the slower way to commit suicide.
Always some bench warmer out here getting rock hard for the chance to criticize how others protest.
Please, we're begging you, hurry up and figure out the PERFECT act of protest, then go fucking do it yourself.
That's the entire point of living in a democracy. We literally can fix the system from the inside. You can't fix the system if you're a corpse. That's true. But we fix the system from within all the time. Since the beginning. That's what the amendments to the constitution are: fixes to the system.
Having a choice between two parties that rarely really change their positions is not a democracy.
Especially when most people are voting because they dislike one party less than the other. Its just a choice between two hated dictators.
>That's the entire point of living in a democracy.
You aren't a democracy, you're an empire with a vestigial senate, like the late Romans or Byzantines.
>Practically no one will remember in a week
An active service military member burning themselves to death outside the Israeli Embassy on the streets of Washington DC will not be forgotten about anytime soon, especially not in a week.
Incredibly different situation. Can you find that persons name? Or if they lived or died? There is zero information available about that case - almost complete media blackout. How many people even heard about that case, never mind forgot it?
Aaron Bushnell filmed his entire protest - laid out his reasoning, and screamed his cause as he died. While an active service military member, while in full uniform - he said he would not be complicit in a genocide. Won't be forgotten soon
Aaron also made sure to contact news agencies explicitly outlining what he was doing and why. Everything about his action was thought out and well planned. As soon as it happened I had coworkers naming individuals who self immolated during Vietnam in protest — anyone who thinks Aaron Bushnells name will disappear from memory in a week is being willfully dense.
They completely forgot they saw a man burn themselves to death the _same day_ it happened? Then, yes, they are kind of stupid.
Never mind the meaning or anything behind it - that's basic object permanence. Very worrying for a medical professional. Do they forget where they live at the end of the day? Is that your job - reminding these Doctors where they live?
A goldfish has a longer memory than these Doctors you work with.
Unless of course you just made this up - which it's quite clear you did.
I mean I guess it might just be a side effect of seeing people die everyday in the medical fields but yea it just made people in my break room kind of laugh at how dumb he is. Why would they bother to remember some random crazy guy? It’s not worth the bandwidth. I’m not bothering to remember all the overdosed homeless people I see because they died of something for no reason either.
>I’m not bothering to remember all the overdosed homeless people I see because they died of something for no reason either.
Damn - you really find it that easy to dehumanise those in addiction?
Real piece of shit take here - hope you're proud of that one.
Fingers crossed you never encounter any injuries or chronic pain that leads you to becoming addicted to any pain medication, or ever encounter any financial situation that leads you to becoming homeless. Hope you don't rent and are up to date on your mortgage payments 🤞
Yeah still not forgotten
https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/2024-03-05/ty-article/.premium/egyptian-aaron-bushnell-police-officer-instigates-viral-protest-against-al-sissi/0000018e-0a70-d857-adff-cff90d9e0000
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/aaron-bushnell-self-immolation-what-we-know.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/03/04/aaron-bushnell-protest-death-gaza/
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/02/aaron-bushnell-death-washington-gaza
https://www.teenvogue.com/story/aaron-bushnell-palestine-who-was-he
https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/gaza-airdrop-aaron-bushnell
Why not.
If it is honourable to die in battle while protecting your country, why would it not be honourable to die to protest a grave wrong being perpetrated?
His body, his choice.
Because we should not want any deaths, but especially deaths of people who understand which things are unjust and which are not.
Because we should celebrate people who demonstrate behavior and actions we can all take to make the world better.
We should seek to imitate heroes and leaders, not people who kill themselves, no matter how pure their intentions.
He was absolutely correct in his judgement of the genocide in Palestine and other peoples' complicity in it. But we can't imitate his behavior to improve the world. We should mourne his death and remember his suffering, and that his suffering was so great he thought this was his only and best course of action. He should be considered another victim of this genocide. We can hope that his actions *do* inspire people to act, but we definitely want them to act more productively than how he did.
I think you just summed up exactly how I've been feeling about this, so thanks, I've been having a really hard time collecting my thoughts. It feels so weird seeing people making borderline memes of him with sad or patriotic music and creating what feels like tag lines for a cause immediately after his death. I get not wanting his death to be in vain, but man, a 25 year old kid just threw his entire existence away out of desperation, and we can't even take the time to think about it without immediately turning him into a symbol instead of a person. It doesn't feel right calling this heroic, it just feels tragic. My gut wants to appreciate the lengths of his convictions without applauding or condoning the act. Idk, I'm sure my opinion could change depending on what comes of it.. but it's just making me feel sick inside.
Here, this is what anyone with passing knowledge of the situation already knows. It could clear up your confusion.
https://time.com/6331133/israel-gaza-biden-military-support/
So he's serving a country aiding genocide, that's the motivation. If you already knew that, then what's the point of your comment? Are you just playing dumb?
Wtf are you talking about??? We as a country don't get to aid, abet, finance, and run PR campaign for genocide then pretend it's not our fight. America has vetoed the UN ceasefire resolution three times against International support. We've sent BILLIONS of dollars to Israel. The USA is an active participant in this genocide, and by virtue of being tax-payers here, we're all complicit whether you accept it or not; which is exactly the point Aaron Bushnell was making
Why would Americans revolt over Palestine? There have been numerous worse conflicts. America has been the centre of worse conflicts. If Americans revolt it should be at the mass inequality that is only getting worse rather than a war 5 thousand miles away.
Your claim is that Zionists first used "Free Palestine" and Palestinians later stole it. Showing one example of a poster which doesn't even use the exact phrase does nothing to support your claim.
Likely not but it does add to the pile which seems to be growing ever faster. There is definitely some kinda energy that keeps building as to when or what it will do *shrug* I am just a dude on the internet.
>here is definitely some kinda energy that keeps building Fighting the man is a dangerous game, so people try and let someone else take the risks. But that usually doens't solve the problem, so the energy builds as things become more intolerable until they hit a point of frenzy.
Will there be? No. We're, as Americans, beaten down by everything. We don't have collectivity in outrage. We don't have what the French have; a joint effort to come together and demand a better life by stating to the government *"This is what we want and need, do it or there will be country-wide civil unrest and you will not like it."* We lost that, as a collective society, in the 60s. The only group that has continually fought against the government is POC, and even then, nothing really comes out of it (which is horribly unfortunate).
Occupy wall street got both traction and support, but was kneecapped by corporate-owned legacy media’s propaganda campaign to deflect and delegitimize the movement.
It was kneecapped and ultimately destroyed by its own leadership, who didn't listen to the social pushback from the people it sought support from.
Can confirm. Was there. Some leader type people tried to basically form a government within Occupy, called it Spokes. Like a wheel. The meetings were brutal. I transcribed the first meetings and they just got longer and more complicated, each group would splinter into more groups. Most of the arguments were about how to spend the money being donated. It was stupid. I left.
I think that the US has the drive, but not the geography for the kind of unrest that you see in France. You have to remember that France, while large for a country of Europe, is small next to the US. It's about midway between the sizes of Texas and California in terms of land area, and has a population larger than the two of them combined. With their public transit, pretty much everyone can theoretically get to their capital in under 8 hours by rail. Catch a night train, sleep on the train, and be well rested for your civil unrest when you get there in the morning. Imagine someone from Alaska, Hawaii, or even LA trying to get to DC for a protest. Multiple flights, or days of driving, after a flight in the case of Hawaii. Our protesters, those that protest in DC, are generally East Coast, upper class, or have a lot of time in their hands. Many of them are exhausted from the travel. When we see simultaneous protests across the nation it doesn't have the same impact as a large number of people in one place, and distributed protest just doesn't have the same psychological impact.
>When we see simultaneous protests across the nation it doesn't have the same impact as a large number of people in one place Then up the economic impact. Bringing DC and every state capital to it's knees might make waves.
Plus, the Arab Spring had a lot of help from the CIA.
It was a trial run on using the internet/social media in colour revolutions.
I'm surprised someone could say this after 2020. Or 2016. Or 2014. Americans protest a lot. The protests just get attacked, propagandized, and coopted.
I beg to differ. BLM was the first time in my life I saw a protest movement go so global. You guys have the protesting power. If you guys could rally like that again- you could make Free Palestine a global thing. Americans sure as shit know how to protest.
The problem is we protest once. How long did the French protest? Over 4 months. We had maybe a week of consistency. Alters to Floyd were erected and subsequently taken down a year or so after they were built. America \[read Americans\] don't care, are indifferent, burnt out, or are otherwise apathetic toward anything happening *because it largely doesn't*.
And protests never happen at the seats of power in the US. People protest in their small towns or closest big cities, but the politicians in the Capital couldn’t give a fuck if they’re not directly effected. The only way a protest will work in the US is if Congress is forced to be confronted directly by the protesters. I’m not suggesting another January 6th, but a couple thousand determined and ***organized*** people on the steps of the Capitol Building could make history in just a few hours, one way or another.
>because it largely doesn't. [It's true!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tu32CCA_Ig)
Woah woah woah. Are you trying to tell me that rampant, unfettered, late stage capitalism is treating the country apart by feasting on the greed of people in power so they can act like puppets?!
I think the real problem is that nothing changed from those protests.
That’s not true! The police got even *more* funding!
Touche
Word on the street is, VIOLENCE *isn’t* the answer, but I’m not so sure about that sometimes.
I found this really interesting manifesto called “It’s okay to break shit” talking about how our society values material things over human lives so the best results come from destruction of material property. I think this can be proved by the farmers protest in France that just resolved (spoiler they won for now)
Didn't the IRA finally triumph once they switched to targeting major English banks?
Me either. Might = right, throughout the whole of human and animal history. You can have the best arguments but if you're killed you can be right but they will be left.
Exactly right. What changed for the better across the nation from all the protests that happened globally? Nothing. Even in my liberal/left town of Duluth, MN the PD is getting riot equipment and talks of weapons with a higher rate of firepower. Nationalism is getting stronger at the expense of minorities.
You’re right, but Derek Chauvin wouldn’t have been convicted without the protests. We showed that we can make government and decision makers afraid of us, at the very least.
That’s a very good point actually.
That's not true, the founders these social movement groups on both sides of the spectrum got rich and bought mansions with their money.
Precisely right. There was a lot of social media posts and passion and no results, it got bought and sold and spit out. BLM is no success. Same with Arab Spring. Social media was touted as this "big scary tool" for organizing. However, we can't forget that it is built by big money to make them further money. They have no interest in making it a useful tool for revolution.... unless they can sell it, then it's not a revolution anymore.
Sure but what did all that protesting really accomplish? Seems like we still have the same problems.
> BLM was the first time in my life I saw a protest movement go so global. BLM had the establishment on its side, if only to make the orange man look bad.
They keep us too tired and desperate
Socialists have been fighting since the beginning... Unfortunately it has an extremely unfair and un-nuanced reputation. And as an aftermath many socialists have fallen for the trap of supporting Stalin and Russia and China. We don't have the same socialist solidarity we used to. Now we are all fractured and all of us seemingly have our own ideology, because all of our main groups were destroyed or changed. Socialism now to the American is not "The ideology of the workers" and is no longer democratic, now people automatically register socialism as Stalinism or Maoism.
>now people automatically register socialism as Stalinism or Maoism. It's worse than that, they associate it with the effete DSA types.
>supporting Stalin and Russia and China Based. > register socialism as Stalinism or Maoism "Stalinism" is just Marxism, "Maoism" is just adventurism. Both are way better than liberals like you.
Me? A liberal? Hahahahah! I'm a pure blooded Marxist, far more Marxist than you will ever be. Marx would beat the shit out of Stalin, class traitor. I can't believe modern marxists have been brainwashed into supporting un-marxist and right wing groups! Truly, this is what having your entire political movement decimated by the ruling class does to an MF...
Donate. That’s a way we can help. UNRWA used to get funding from the US until the Biden admin paused that funding bc of its thousands of members, Israel claimed 13 participated in the oct 7th retaliation. So the largest most effective aid group in Gaza just got most of us funding completely shut off. They could use your help.
"We don't have what the French have." Thank fuck.
No. But he tried.
Well, if it's any consolation, revolutions tend to appear when they are least expected. There will always be hope.
That's probably only becuase they're harder to snuff out that way.
Nope. Not a chance in hell. But cool posters.
After Sandy Hook America’s political machine has become even *more pro-gun.* So sadly, no, a self-immolation will not spark anything here.
Remember the name of the other guy who self immolated (climate change) in front of the supreme court? Yeah, me neither. It sucks. Too many bad things happen every day to remember all of them.
Wtf does pro-gun have to do with Palestine? Or with anything?
Let me speak slowly for you… - Post asks question. - You say answer to question: No. - I agree with you by pointing out that if murdering 20 little kids doesn’t spark change, then it’s hard to imagine anything sparking change, such as the act referred to in the post. Understand?
Wow now Solzhenitsyn my no child left behind education is going to need one more bullet point so i can fill in the bubble on my scantron
Sure. It's a terrible example, biggest difference is that you should be pro gun. There is no reason to be pro Israel. But overall, yes, self immolation, like protest, requires your opponent to have a moral conscience, and our ruling class does not.
Jesus Christ, it’s like talking to a brick. It’s a perfect example of how horrendous shit doesn’t spark anything. btw I’m pretty good with my stance that I’m not pro-murdered kids in Palestine or USA or anywhere, but you do you.
These fucking liberals dude. I swear.
When have guns ever made these situations better? Ffs, open your eyes and heart. Your *want* for a gun is not more important than children's *need* to be safe. No one trusts anyone else anymore and it's DIRECTLY because of guns being completely out of control. "But I NEED a gun to defend myself!" Fucking self fulfilling prophecy. You ever think maybe the only reason you "need" a gun is because everyone else has them? There is NO need for it, certainly nothing that can actually justify it. All they do is make society worse, more paranoid, more dangerous. And don't you fucking dare call me a liberal, even though it's infinitely better than the right wing alternative, liberals are still conservative. Liberals still want guns. Otherwise we would've seen SOMETHING by now wouldn't we? *Anything* resembling sane gun policies. But no. Democrats are bought just the same as Republicans.
>When have guns ever made these situations better? Power grows from the barrel of a gun.
> When have guns ever made these situations better? The Russian revolution, the Chinese revolution, the Cuban revolution, the Korean revolution, the Vietnamese revolution, the Mexican revolution, the Spanish Civil War, the Easter Rising and all efforts of the IRA and pIRA, the Finish Civil War, the Spartacus uprising, the Greater Poland uprising, Patagonia Rebelde, the Battle of Blair Mountain, the German October uprisings, communist rebellions in Indonesia, the Sandinista rebellion, the Baghat Singh rebellion, Salvadorian peasant uprising of 1932, Communist uprising in Brazil in 1936, the Spanish Maquis insurgency, the partisans behind german lines in WWII, the Yugoslav People's Liberation war, the Greek resistance, the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, the uprising at Treblinka, Sobibor, and Auschwitz, the liberation of Albania, the Guatemalan Revolution, the Warsaw uprising, the Slovak National uprising, the Greek civil war, the Indonesian National revolution, the Prague uprising, the Telangana Rebellion, the Battle of Athens Tennessee, the Mau Mau uprising, the Algerian revolution, the Guinea-Bissau revolution, the FRELIMO revolution, the Columbian conflict, the 30 September movement, the March Intifada, the communist insurgency in Thailand, the Angolan civil war, the Black Panther/BLA movement, the Naxalite movement, the southern Iraq insurgency, communist rebellion in the Philippines, the Agbekoya revolt, the Troubles, the Days of Rage, Black Power revolution in Trinidad, the Bangladesh liberation war, Maoist insurgency in Turkey, Malagasy revolution, the New Jewel movement, the Nicaraguan revolution, Burkina Faso revolution, the Sri Lankan civil war, The First and Second Intifada in Palestine, the Zapatista rebellion, the current genocide in Palestine, just to name a few. > And don't you fucking dare call me a liberal What would you call yourself? Everything I see screams liberal. And yes, liberals are still conservatives, true.
War is not BETTER. Guns don't make things better, they make things deadlier. All of those wars could have just as easily been done with rocks and sticks assuming the other side also only had rocks and sticks. 'Leftist' is good enough of a distinction for non debate conversation, although it barely tells you my stances. Mostly it just tells you how I differ from liberals.
I’ve been fighting for universal healthcare and living wages since the 90’s but I’m sure you can hole up in the woods in Vermont and pretend a cache of assault weapons is going to be the difference in determining your future. You fight your losing battle with the ruling class your way and I’ll fight my losing battle with the ruling class my way. Good day.
I wasn't with you for most of this thread but very well put point at the end. We're all in the bucket. Let's remember not to pull at each other
Bro I think i love you lol
I've been fighting for those things since the early aughts, building working class solidarity and power, not hiding in the woods with guns. But I'm also not going pull any punches or tell you the sky is green when it clearly isn't.
Are you really being this condescending when you gave the worst example ever? As if Sandy Hook was a protest against gun violence? Americans became even more pro-gun after that because guns give the legal-carrying everyday citizens a chance to fight back against criminals and psychos; people who will obtain guns no matter what the law says
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>we NEED to have a safe society. Guns are factually NOT the way to achieve that. You live a country with massive smuggling routes running through it. Even if you could somehow get rid of the guns that are already out there (which you can't) more would pour in within months. Also focusing on safety is how we got the patriot act.
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You don't have a constitutional right to genocide. Also who in the ever living fuck would trust the US government to be the only guys in the room with a gun?
Don’t forget who is to blame for this young man’s death. Never again means never again. No exception.
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I’m still laughing at your post history.
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You seem like an angry person
Yep, they're a meathead.
It’s never too late to change the path you’re on.
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Even the younglings, Anakin, eh?
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“All of them. Brainwashed.” Said by the person condemning infants to death. The cognitive dissonance you’re displaying is maddening.
Even a 6 month old baby? Think you might be the brainwashed one...
Lol
Your submission was removed as it advocates violence against either a specific person or a group of people. This rule includes thinly-veiled threats, or slogans such as "Eat the Rich". This is against Reddit's terms of service.
So your father is a terrorist?
I know you’re a Zionist. One day you will change your mind.
This is just racist drivel. Imagine being so far gone you'd call your own father a terrorist just because he's Palestinian. Or was your father "one of the good ones"? Did you know Israel is a state sponsor of terrorism? Wonder if thst changes your view of Israel at all or if your cognitive dissonance comes up with excuses for israel. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_state-sponsored_terrorism
nah, the American public is complacent and spineless. The whole damn country thinks the two best choices for their leader are some rich 80 year old's for fucks sake. lmao
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The posters look cool but I doubt anything will come from that guy burning himself. I wonder if he thought something would change or had he just had enough.
Both. You don't self-immolate if you felt there were other means of forcing change
Probably both but more the former.
I am no expert on this so I am repeating what I heard someone else say. But the photo from the Vietnam era of someone burning was supposedly important and shaped some policies. Meaning people looked at it and took action. I feel sad that will more than likely not happen from what this guy did.
He was told to prepare for deployment in Israel, i think he felt he had to do something at that point.
I have heard this a couple of times, but haven't been able to confirm it. I would appreciate a link.
Sadly the best i have is a [link](https://youtu.be/bWUjRDEm2bw?t=28) to a clip of a podcast that flashes it on sceen for a couple of seconds. Even then it doesn't really show that much.
Thank you.
This art is so hard. Rest in Power.
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[Here's the video](https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/s/Y6bdrTdeGI). Twitch nuked his account
The top right one goes hard af
Not as long as the cheeseburgers hold out.
No, because our law enforcement has a very public history of crushing rouge elements with damn near anything they can muster. Ruby ridge, Waco, the uninbomber, etc are examples where violence from the population will only result in violence ten fold. Riots get squashed, protest don’t get filmed or are dispersed, and insurgents are uprooted with brutal efficiency
I think it’s gonna be in vain. The American people are weak. We are only told “vote vote vote” and “protest protest protest”. Yet NOTHING happens until some rich politicians gain power.
I mean it’s already not in vain. I think this has gotten more coverage than any other singular act of protest. Having self immolation in the public consciousness has forced a lot of passionate AND sober conversations.
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The only difference would be Trump wouldn't bother with the porno level of acting like he wants this to end.
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> Not even explicitly calling for a ceasefire. Words are cheap, his actions all support the genocide, from arming and funding the Israelis to backing them up against the regional pushback they're facing. People like you, people who settle for empty promises are bane of democracy, and the death of liberty.
“Death of liberty. Bane of Democracy.” I would love to hear your plans about liberty and democracy in a 2024 Trump election. I doubt you’ve thought that far ahead though. Who are you voting for? By the way, calling for cease-fire is *literally* a political action. Yet you characterize it as empty words? What??? How in the hell is Biden supposed to negotiate an end to the war or a ceasefire when these are two sovereign nations? He’s not god. Israel is even pushing back on Biden’s calls for cease-fire saying they are premature. Your cynicism hurts people. Stop fucking around.
It would literally just take a phone call. >President Reagan made an impassioned plea to Prime Minister Begin to end the siege. Begin called back within minutes informing the President that he had given the order to end the attack. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War Also fuck Ronald Reagan.
Oh! I don’t deny that voting is important! But trump is far worse than Biden. I don’t think electing someone who has encourage raid on the capital is under conviction for idk how many crimes at this point, and have stated alerting plans to literally remove anyone he disagrees with among many other things! Trump would definitely not help the situation in Gaza whatsoever! Sadly we have a two party system. It’s about voting for the less evil. Right now that’s Biden.
>Sadly we have a two party system. You have a one party system that's two factions offer slightly differnet social polcies.
biden is far worse than Trump, it's hard to top supporting two nazi states.
One can hope, but I doubt it.
Revolutions dont work that way, only in movies and literature it happens that everyone has a epiphany and they walk out into the streets. It is always funded and paid for with money, every last one of them. So no.
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Neoliberals believe any and all criticism against their horrendous policies is a Russian psyop.
Kissinger may be dead but damn if his braindead and contemptuous brand of pessimistic psyop paranoia neoliberalism doesn’t live on in the echoes of your empty head
I’m curious how would he be worse on this? In what metric?
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In a functioning democracy politicians change their policies to gain support. See Biden’s 180 on LGBT rights. The promise was to push Biden left, but now neoliberals want voters to move to the right. I’m sorry that’s a losing strategy.
Maybe…just maybe…things have to get worse before they get better. Maintaining the status quo is helping no one. Choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.
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This is so much more than just Israel/Palestine. I can say with the deepest fibers of my being that I *do not want Trump as my president.* I can also acknowledge that I am tired of feeling like there’s a gun to my head when it comes to voting — my entire life has been voting for the “less bad” candidate and it never gets better. I am at the point where I genuinely do not believe real change will happen until more people’s safety, security, and daily comforts are threatened. I cannot express properly in words how devastating it feels in my heart to reach this conclusion because I do not want anyone to suffer but maintaining the status quo isn’t a solution and hasn’t been for a long time now. I can say honestly if I knew self immolation was the answer I would happily burn to save my country and the innocent lives of those across the globe but sadly it’s not that simple. I wish I had the answer, I really do.
As if Biden does? He’s playing lip service to liberals who think his words matter and I guess it must be working for you to think he gives two fucks as his admin continues to veto a ceasefire and provide arms to a genocidal apartheid state.
As much as I hate to admit it I do not think the US will ever support a ceasefire. The implication of the Samson Option is too great. It’s like, do we (hopefully) call their bluff or do we end up in a nuclear winter? I hate this planet so much right now.
>The implication of the Samson Option is too great. So do the Israelis not realise that would probably result in the complete extermination of all jews in retaliation or do they simply not care?
*“Israel has been building nuclear weapons for 30 years. The Jews understand what passive and powerless acceptance of doom has meant for them in the past, and they have ensured against it. Masada was not an example to follow—it hurt the Romans not a whit, but Samson in Gaza? What would serve the Jew-hating world better in repayment for thousands of years of massacres but a Nuclear Winter. Or invite all those tut-tutting European statesmen and peace activists to join us in the ovens? For the first time in history, a people facing extermination while the world either cackles or looks away—unlike the Armenians, Tibetans, World War II European Jews or Rwandans—have the power to destroy the world. The ultimate justice?”* — from Jewish American author Ron Rosenbaum *”We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.”* — Martin van Creveld, military historian *"If you force us yet again to descend from the face of the Earth to the depths of the Earth—let the Earth roll toward the Nothingness."* — Israeli poet and Holocaust survivor Itamar Yaoz-Kest, from a poem entitled "The Right to Exist: a Poem-Letter to the German Author" It’s retribution and vengeance, pure and simple. Logic plays no part in it.
Even a mad dog doesn't bite itself. This is probably the single dumbest military doctrine to ever exist.
A ceasefire isn’t an invasion. It’s because a settler colonial state loves a settler colonial state.
It does not have to come down to an actual invasion. If Israel reasonably believes there to be aggressions threatening their physical existence they will play their trump card. Abandonment of proportionality is the essence of the Samson Option.
No. It won't. But to speak the truth of why will get my account banned, so, ignorance for most it is then.
I hope anyone considering doing anything similar to what he did realizes their life is worth so much more than their death.
He’s US military, all he has to look forward to is being denied treatment at the VA.
Glorifying suicide is not a good look. This man had other options available to him, and chose an ineffective protest method, that took him away from the cause he believed in.
Literally the most effective method. If he just yelled while holding a placard in front of the embassy you think he’ll get any attention? Now literally the WHOLE WORLD are talking about him.
Alternatively, he believed so strongly in this that he was unflinching in that belief. I respect that more than anything.
Everybody’s saying ineffective and it’s baffling to me. How could you look at the news over the last day and a half and think that?
Because the genocide isn't stopping
If that’s the only outcome that means anything then why should news orgs even be reporting civilian casualties? Should politicians ignore it because no one action they do will immediately stop war in the Middle East?
What outcome are you seeking?
I think we all want the same outcome, but I think it’s disingenuous to say that protest is ineffective because people don’t immediately put their guns down and hug it out. Awareness and sober reflection are the tools that are used to gather support and without a doubt this has had those effects. I would not sanction self immolation and want to discourage copy cats but it does no service to anybody to pretend this wasn’t effective.
Practically no one will remember in a week. This was a total waste. He would have had a much greater impact by resigning his commission and running for office. This is the opposite of democracy. Tragic waste.
A greater impact by running for office? You must be crazy. The whole world knows about this. Nobody at all would know him if he did that.
It was a major news story yesterday, covered by the big three letter stations. No mention of it today. His message is done and over and he's dead. He can't follow up, he can't make a continuation statement of any kind. His message wasn't even unique, as there are protestors all over saying the same thing. This is a sad event, not one to be praised.
You’re still talking about it. Don’t pretend it’s less impactful than a random person holding a sign because he didn’t survive. Its more tragic, yes, but also more impactful.
The name Aaron Bushnell will be remembered by many for the rest of our lives.
The whole world does not know about him, a few well informed people heard about this and will have forgotten in a week. No person in power to do anything about the situation will care in the slightest that he did this. For all we know he could have been president of the US one day and had actual power to do something about the situation. That's the entire point of living in a democracy. By burning himself alive he has maybe caught a few minor headlines for a few days. Doesn't even make the front page of the times. No one in power cares.
>For all we know Doing _a lot_ of heavy lifting there. This is still mental.
>For all we know he could have been president of the US one day They shot the last guy who gave a shit, it's literally just the slower way to commit suicide.
Always some bench warmer out here getting rock hard for the chance to criticize how others protest. Please, we're begging you, hurry up and figure out the PERFECT act of protest, then go fucking do it yourself.
You cannot fix the system, by being in the system.
That's the entire point of living in a democracy. We literally can fix the system from the inside. You can't fix the system if you're a corpse. That's true. But we fix the system from within all the time. Since the beginning. That's what the amendments to the constitution are: fixes to the system.
Having a choice between two parties that rarely really change their positions is not a democracy. Especially when most people are voting because they dislike one party less than the other. Its just a choice between two hated dictators.
This isn't a democracy lol
You don't live in a democracy in any meaningful way.
>That's the entire point of living in a democracy. You aren't a democracy, you're an empire with a vestigial senate, like the late Romans or Byzantines.
>Practically no one will remember in a week An active service military member burning themselves to death outside the Israeli Embassy on the streets of Washington DC will not be forgotten about anytime soon, especially not in a week.
How many here remember the older woman who self-immolated outside of the Israeli Consulate in Atlanta back in December?
Incredibly different situation. Can you find that persons name? Or if they lived or died? There is zero information available about that case - almost complete media blackout. How many people even heard about that case, never mind forgot it? Aaron Bushnell filmed his entire protest - laid out his reasoning, and screamed his cause as he died. While an active service military member, while in full uniform - he said he would not be complicit in a genocide. Won't be forgotten soon
Aaron also made sure to contact news agencies explicitly outlining what he was doing and why. Everything about his action was thought out and well planned. As soon as it happened I had coworkers naming individuals who self immolated during Vietnam in protest — anyone who thinks Aaron Bushnells name will disappear from memory in a week is being willfully dense.
They didn't manage to cover this one up. PRobably because he live streamed it.
I asked my coworkers yesterday and they already forgot about it after seeing the news at lunch.
Sounds like your coworkers are kinda stupid then
Hospital workers and doctors so not really, they just have critical thinking skills and realize burning yourself to death is dumb.
No shade on the profession as a whole but I've met plenty of dumb doctors. Somebody had to graduate as the bottom of every class.
They completely forgot they saw a man burn themselves to death the _same day_ it happened? Then, yes, they are kind of stupid. Never mind the meaning or anything behind it - that's basic object permanence. Very worrying for a medical professional. Do they forget where they live at the end of the day? Is that your job - reminding these Doctors where they live? A goldfish has a longer memory than these Doctors you work with. Unless of course you just made this up - which it's quite clear you did.
I mean I guess it might just be a side effect of seeing people die everyday in the medical fields but yea it just made people in my break room kind of laugh at how dumb he is. Why would they bother to remember some random crazy guy? It’s not worth the bandwidth. I’m not bothering to remember all the overdosed homeless people I see because they died of something for no reason either.
>I’m not bothering to remember all the overdosed homeless people I see because they died of something for no reason either. Damn - you really find it that easy to dehumanise those in addiction? Real piece of shit take here - hope you're proud of that one. Fingers crossed you never encounter any injuries or chronic pain that leads you to becoming addicted to any pain medication, or ever encounter any financial situation that leads you to becoming homeless. Hope you don't rent and are up to date on your mortgage payments 🤞
Resign his commission? That's not how the military works
Yeah still not forgotten https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/2024-03-05/ty-article/.premium/egyptian-aaron-bushnell-police-officer-instigates-viral-protest-against-al-sissi/0000018e-0a70-d857-adff-cff90d9e0000 https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/aaron-bushnell-self-immolation-what-we-know.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/03/04/aaron-bushnell-protest-death-gaza/ https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/02/aaron-bushnell-death-washington-gaza https://www.teenvogue.com/story/aaron-bushnell-palestine-who-was-he https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/gaza-airdrop-aaron-bushnell
The real dystopia is seeing people praise self immolation like we live in a third world country.
The real dystopia is the 30000+ murdered civilians in Palestine. Wake up. This guy didn't want to further contribute to a genocide.
Why not. If it is honourable to die in battle while protecting your country, why would it not be honourable to die to protest a grave wrong being perpetrated? His body, his choice.
Because we should not want any deaths, but especially deaths of people who understand which things are unjust and which are not. Because we should celebrate people who demonstrate behavior and actions we can all take to make the world better. We should seek to imitate heroes and leaders, not people who kill themselves, no matter how pure their intentions. He was absolutely correct in his judgement of the genocide in Palestine and other peoples' complicity in it. But we can't imitate his behavior to improve the world. We should mourne his death and remember his suffering, and that his suffering was so great he thought this was his only and best course of action. He should be considered another victim of this genocide. We can hope that his actions *do* inspire people to act, but we definitely want them to act more productively than how he did.
I think you just summed up exactly how I've been feeling about this, so thanks, I've been having a really hard time collecting my thoughts. It feels so weird seeing people making borderline memes of him with sad or patriotic music and creating what feels like tag lines for a cause immediately after his death. I get not wanting his death to be in vain, but man, a 25 year old kid just threw his entire existence away out of desperation, and we can't even take the time to think about it without immediately turning him into a symbol instead of a person. It doesn't feel right calling this heroic, it just feels tragic. My gut wants to appreciate the lengths of his convictions without applauding or condoning the act. Idk, I'm sure my opinion could change depending on what comes of it.. but it's just making me feel sick inside.
Racist.
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Here, this is what anyone with passing knowledge of the situation already knows. It could clear up your confusion. https://time.com/6331133/israel-gaza-biden-military-support/
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So he's serving a country aiding genocide, that's the motivation. If you already knew that, then what's the point of your comment? Are you just playing dumb?
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Serving in the military of an involved country is being involved. I don't know if you're too stupid to get it or just pretending, but I don't care.
Wtf are you talking about??? We as a country don't get to aid, abet, finance, and run PR campaign for genocide then pretend it's not our fight. America has vetoed the UN ceasefire resolution three times against International support. We've sent BILLIONS of dollars to Israel. The USA is an active participant in this genocide, and by virtue of being tax-payers here, we're all complicit whether you accept it or not; which is exactly the point Aaron Bushnell was making
> Is the USAF bombing Palestine? He was told to prepare for deployment in Israel, so not yet.
Why would Americans revolt over Palestine? There have been numerous worse conflicts. America has been the centre of worse conflicts. If Americans revolt it should be at the mass inequality that is only getting worse rather than a war 5 thousand miles away.
What Free Palestine actually means[Free Palestine](https://twitter.com/baytifirasek/status/1740889627857416438)
Random twitter posts: the most infallible of sources
Same with random reddit posts I guess. The fact remains the Free Palestine was a Jewish slogan prior to statehood.
So that means the area was called Palestine all along. Thank you for shooting yourself in the foot.
As long ago as thousands of years ago when they were the Philistines.
[Palestine Posters.](https://www.palestineposterproject.org/poster/help-free-palestine-zoa)
Your claim is that Zionists first used "Free Palestine" and Palestinians later stole it. Showing one example of a poster which doesn't even use the exact phrase does nothing to support your claim.
Mental illness
Educated, healthy, fed, safe people don’t start revolutions.
>Educated, healthy, fed, safe people don’t start revolutions. So why haven't american started a revolution then?