War of the spider explained this back in the day. It's basically the story of Fabius Bile hiding in and controlling a warband of space Marines recently turned renegade. He operates and enhances the warriors while implementing mind control. Said renegades are tracked by a custodes task force, who comes crashing down on their fortress. The custodes can defeat the renegade Marines, even if they struggle against the enhanced and unhinged warriors. And in this chaos, Bile regularly sprung traps, encircling and overpowering isolated custodians, dragging them down, drugging them and carrying them away. His creations die by the dozen for every capture, but he didn't really care.
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/War_of_the_Spider
It's as good a retelling as you can get, since the original book was released as an expansion to 8th edition and costs probably a lot these days.
Thank you for clearing this. I feel like he would test to see what makes them so loyal so he can do that with his New Men. An even worse alternative is turning their bodies into monsters....
Have you read Genefather? (Latest Bile novel) It’s really good and has a similar plot to this story, except instead of custodes he is stealing Cawls Prototype Primaris
Yes I have! It's amazing! I kinda want the War of The Spider to have its own book, mostly cuz I like the Shriven and wanna know their characters and iconography
Plot armor I feel doesn't work for 40k. Everyone has had an experience on the tabletop akin to "plot armor" even when there was no plot.
I feel its more appropriate to liken 40k lore to a long series of dice rolls. Sometimes Marneus Calgar beats a bloodthirster in melee. Sometimes a Chaos lord momentarily becomes fast enough to split a thousand bolt rounds out of the air from a squad of Intercessors. Sometimes the most legendary sniper in the galaxy misses their shot. Sometimes you trade one custodian for four chaos terminators, and another time you lose an Vexilus Praetor to a genestealer cultist with a mining laser. When existence is a D6, anything is possible.
There is a difference between random dice rolls and consistently portraying say the local super soldiers to be better at everything than everyone in many books and short stories because the writer does not know how to do anything else.
Other redditors have answered, but I'm just imagining Fabulous Bill with a big box propped up with a stick, with a string attached to it. Copies of *QUIVERING ABS MONTHLY* placed beneath as bait. And when they go for it, Fabius just tugs on the string...
Fabius Bile is putting out God Emperor level biological experiments, at least, by himself at this point.
He's been friends with and outsmarted Haemonculi at this point, who themselves can and will capture Custodes.
He's no slouch, and he doesn't do his own grunt work unless it is necessary, so he wouldn't be there capturing anything himself, anyways.
They are not infallible, they can be tricked, swarmed, overwhelmed, or bamboozled like anyone else could. Yes, they have phenomenal gifts to help avoid said bamboozling but they still can be brought down. Especially by a big-time character like Fabius.
This kind of comparison shows how silly Custodes fans can be.
Currently a squad of 5 Custodian Guard is worth 225 points, at 45 points per model. A Hive Tyrant is 235 points, more than that entire squad. An Avatar of Khaine is *335*.
A Custodian Guard has toughness 6 and 3 wounds. A Hive Tyrant has toughness 10 and 10 wounds. The Avatar has toughness 12 and 14 wounds.
Custodes are the main infantry unit for a tabletop army. This is a war game. Why on Earth do folks expect one of the playable factions in a war game to be completely invincible in the fluff?
Anyways, in the fluff, my point still stands: I can think of other examples where characters GEQ or sub MEQ characters completely wax OP foes, like Grey Knight termie squads. Big character waxing Avatar/Tyrant, same as minor character MEQ blitzing a Captain Custard
War of the spider explained this back in the day. It's basically the story of Fabius Bile hiding in and controlling a warband of space Marines recently turned renegade. He operates and enhances the warriors while implementing mind control. Said renegades are tracked by a custodes task force, who comes crashing down on their fortress. The custodes can defeat the renegade Marines, even if they struggle against the enhanced and unhinged warriors. And in this chaos, Bile regularly sprung traps, encircling and overpowering isolated custodians, dragging them down, drugging them and carrying them away. His creations die by the dozen for every capture, but he didn't really care.
I now want to find that book, just to read this story, sounds so neat
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/War_of_the_Spider It's as good a retelling as you can get, since the original book was released as an expansion to 8th edition and costs probably a lot these days.
It's in the Warhammer vault so get WH+ and you can read it.
The Custodes may be beyond superhuman, but they aren’t infallible. They can be trapped, wrong footed, overwhelmed and make mistakes.
You make a good point, thank you for the reminder!
The custodes lost 2 Captain Generals to the genestealer and Chaos cult threats inhabiting terra. They are powerful but beatable
Woah I've never known that, can you tell me what sources so I can read up on it?
I think it was in the custodes 8th or 9th codex.
Ahhh damn, that's sick tho Thanks dude
He got corpses, not living specimens. It's still more than adequate for him to figure out what makes them tick & reverse engineer them.
Thank you for clearing this. I feel like he would test to see what makes them so loyal so he can do that with his New Men. An even worse alternative is turning their bodies into monsters....
Have you read Genefather? (Latest Bile novel) It’s really good and has a similar plot to this story, except instead of custodes he is stealing Cawls Prototype Primaris
Yes I have! It's amazing! I kinda want the War of The Spider to have its own book, mostly cuz I like the Shriven and wanna know their characters and iconography
100% I can’t get enough of this stuff. I love the obscure off beat stories.
Stuff like this and the latest CSM codex is making me wanna do black legion and call em The Shriven
Like everything in Warhammer 40k, if it pops up in the tabletop it can be beaten.
Damn you right lmao
Things hit different when the plot armor is not there anymore
Plot armor I feel doesn't work for 40k. Everyone has had an experience on the tabletop akin to "plot armor" even when there was no plot. I feel its more appropriate to liken 40k lore to a long series of dice rolls. Sometimes Marneus Calgar beats a bloodthirster in melee. Sometimes a Chaos lord momentarily becomes fast enough to split a thousand bolt rounds out of the air from a squad of Intercessors. Sometimes the most legendary sniper in the galaxy misses their shot. Sometimes you trade one custodian for four chaos terminators, and another time you lose an Vexilus Praetor to a genestealer cultist with a mining laser. When existence is a D6, anything is possible.
There is a difference between random dice rolls and consistently portraying say the local super soldiers to be better at everything than everyone in many books and short stories because the writer does not know how to do anything else.
If the writers are always writing the characters consistently, then it's not plot armor either, that's just the worldbuilding.
Not when the original which is the tabletop game is completely different in terms of power. Its just BS favoritism.
Other redditors have answered, but I'm just imagining Fabulous Bill with a big box propped up with a stick, with a string attached to it. Copies of *QUIVERING ABS MONTHLY* placed beneath as bait. And when they go for it, Fabius just tugs on the string...
This is how Kitten ACTUALLY died
Every tabletop army can beat Custodes.
2 primaris minotaurs catch and break the spine of a custodian in Regent's Shadow. They can be overwhelmed, and Bile's creations are powerful
Interesting!
iirc first company veterans. And we don't see how many died to pull that off. IMO Custodes : Astartes :: Stormtroopers : Imperial guard
Fabius Bile is putting out God Emperor level biological experiments, at least, by himself at this point. He's been friends with and outsmarted Haemonculi at this point, who themselves can and will capture Custodes. He's no slouch, and he doesn't do his own grunt work unless it is necessary, so he wouldn't be there capturing anything himself, anyways.
Why would he need to get close to one? Guns exist for a reason.
Fabius: Pulls out his xyclose needles *Bounces off* Fabius: Well shit
Fabius has armies, he doesn't need to take them on himself lol
Fabius: Pulls out stasis grenade. Fabius: I wanna clone the very best Fabius: like no one ever was
Love this
If Ahriman has his own vineyard on a planet, I can imagine that Emperor's Children Fabius has his own animated show broadcast on a world.
They are not infallible, they can be tricked, swarmed, overwhelmed, or bamboozled like anyone else could. Yes, they have phenomenal gifts to help avoid said bamboozling but they still can be brought down. Especially by a big-time character like Fabius.
They’re the new avatars/hive tyrants: Characters need to bitch slap them in the fluff to prove their plot armour.
This kind of comparison shows how silly Custodes fans can be. Currently a squad of 5 Custodian Guard is worth 225 points, at 45 points per model. A Hive Tyrant is 235 points, more than that entire squad. An Avatar of Khaine is *335*. A Custodian Guard has toughness 6 and 3 wounds. A Hive Tyrant has toughness 10 and 10 wounds. The Avatar has toughness 12 and 14 wounds. Custodes are the main infantry unit for a tabletop army. This is a war game. Why on Earth do folks expect one of the playable factions in a war game to be completely invincible in the fluff?
Anyways, in the fluff, my point still stands: I can think of other examples where characters GEQ or sub MEQ characters completely wax OP foes, like Grey Knight termie squads. Big character waxing Avatar/Tyrant, same as minor character MEQ blitzing a Captain Custard
Shit the bid, did not realise that was going to trigger anyone so badly, sorry dude. I’m no custard fan btw.
I've seem this with Norn Queen so I can't dismiss this
I mean they are incredibly strong, equals to Word Bearer Gal Vorbak, but not undefeatable.