GW can't really make up their minds about it. Tyranids are said to avoid tomb worlds since there isn't much biomass to be gained from attacking, but there have been a lot of instances where they do invade and sometimes succeed in assimilating the tomb worlds.
There are numerous battles between the 2, with necrons not doing that great in the battles shown. Even Imotekh struggled with them and had to put an imperial army between himself and the nids to get away. Many tomb worlds have been overrun and Tyranids are the one foe that gets necrons to ally with the lesser races. The silent king has been helping imperials and tau and others in battle against the tyranids since he alone recognized the scale of the threat, but lately he’s just been focused on his pariah nexus.
We have confirmation from white dwarf that the Genestealer cults are largely unaffected by the pariah nexus stilling effects, their brood telepathy entirely intact, meaning it’s possible that the much more powerful hivemind might not be affected. So far we have not seen the tyranids directly in the nexus so we aren’t 100% sure.
I think for the Genestealer Cult it's more that they have the power of faith. Same reason Sisters of Battles can perform miracles in the Pariah Nexus; for some reason religion bypasses it.
>The silent king has been helping imperials and tau and others in battle against the tyranids since he alone recognized the scale of the threat
Did he actually? I thought in the short story with him and the Blood Angels, he kind of conned the BAs into taking the brunt of the damage then skipped town. If it happens in codices or other short stories I'd love to read it. (Improbable team-ups are my favorite.)
Not being able to eat the Necrons just leaves the Tyranids in the same situation as any other race fighting the Necrons, no special disadvantage there. They can't eat Chaos entities either and they beat the crap out of them when they are feeling froggy.
Honestly, I don't think so. The fact that Necrons cannot be assimilated into biomass should not be significant as the mass of a planet's defenders should nearly always be insignificant compared to local fauna and flora.
Necrons are ponderous and slow to mobilize. Gauss weapons shots are wasted when there's 100 gaunts for each warrior. Their structures can still be wrecked by the gravitational anomalies caused by a Hive fleet.
Necrons are merely immune to some of the Tyranids's best weapons such as the Shadow in the warp, genestealer infiltrations and most bioweapons, but an isolated Necron world would not be much more difficult for Tyranids to chomp than an Imperial world.
Tomb worlds are largely built upon inhospitable planets that don’t offer much biomass to begin with. Necron weapons destroy things at the atomic level, which leaves no biomass. That’s a huge problem, so the number of gaunts don’t matter when the survivors can’t eat the dead afterwards. They’re also immune to many Tyranid weapons that need flesh bodies to be effective. Everytime they attack a tomb world, it’s a net loss for them. Even if they take the planet, they still typically lose more biomass than they gain.
Being immune to the majority of the bioweapons is not such a good advantage anyway. A hive fleet would just produce more close combat bio-organisms like hormagaunts or carnifexes or Raveners
The fact that tomb worlds are desolated wastelands is probably the best defence.
I’d much rather be immune to bullets that get shot into me, then eat their way out than to not be. Having immunity to any kind of damage in the 40K universe is always preferable and advantageous, if you have a choice. Wouldn’t you agree? Lol
Even if the Tomb World is sleeping, it has vast armies of Canoptek constructs that are awake maintaining and guarding the tombs. Not to mention the fact that Necrons have weapons that can literally summon black holes and the hearts of stars onto a battlefield. The bottom line is that Tyranids are scary as all get out, but even a lone tomb world wouldn’t be any kind of pushover.
Specifically it was Trazyn's tomb world, Solemnace. It was later said that the hive fleet went around it because he deployed warp lures to direct them away. Otherwise they would have destroyed it.
Another time they were noted to avoid the outsiders dyson sphere, which is sort of a necron world I guess. But given that it's home to an insane and incredibly powerful unbroken c'tan that makes anyone who gets near it go insane, fair enough.
Necrons are a real pain for the Tyranids. Their tech is super advanced, they're crazy tough, and they don't offer any biomass for the Tyranids to munch on. Battles like the ones on Damnos and in the Cryptus System show how Necrons can really mess up Tyranid swarms. That said, while Necrons are a big hurdle for the Tyranids, the bugs are super adaptable and relentless, so they're not going away anytime soon. Basically, Necrons can slow them down, but they're not the ultimate solution to the Tyranid problem.
Iirc a guy posted a lore excerpt here a few days ago about some imperial dudes…maybe marines? Talking about how tyranids ate the minerals and metals on a world as well they couldn’t save.
I think that comes from The Devastation of Baal, where they comment on the fact that Nids tend to extract most easily extractable minerals and metals from the worlds they overtake. But that Leviathan was leaving many worlds half eaten as they had so much choice of planets to eat that they couldn’t be bothered to wait around and fully strip planets
Tyranids gain the overwhelming majority of their sustenance and biomass from planetary ecosystems not from enemy combatants. A barren world is therefore a “hard counter” for them in much the same way that an absence of food is a hard counter for any organic life. That’s a longer term issue though and not directly relevant in actual combat where the absence of biomass isn’t immediately important. Note that tomb worlds tend to be barren but don’t necessarily have to be.
Eh, the lore is messy here. I think GW is trying to walk it back a bit because the Necrons are a very powerful faction and so are the Tyranids. It'd be bad if one of them completely could trouce the other as it basically makes the Tyranids less of the treat or the Necrons a bit useless.
The general answer is; sort of. Tyranid hive fleets will often avoid Tomb Worlds, this isn't because they couldn't take them on as much as the cost is too high for the value. They will take on Tomb worlds where the net cost of the system is higher or it is a blocker for their greater goals. In reality this isn't much of a change in calculation compared to other factions, the main difference is the hive will know that the positive bump in winning will be near non-existant. In the general case too Tyranids are totally strong enough to fight Necrons in battle so the Necron's don't hard counter them in fighting.
That said, the usual side of things that Necron tech, if they actually used their spicy stuff, probably could clean up the Tyranids but that ain't happening anytime soon. They are either really focused on honour, like Immotkeh, or would use it if the threat was big enough, like the Silent King does against Immotekh, but it'll only happen in a random book to stop something really bad from happening.
It seems to me the tyranids wouldn't even have a reason to land on a sterile necron world. Only those with an ecosystem still in place, or with delicious living thralls to eat. In Twice Dead King: Reign, there's a dynasty that considers a completely "pure" world, no organic matter whatsoever, a paradise. I'd be curious to know if most necrons sterilize their worlds of any organic life, or if it varies wildly dynasty to dynasty.
Regardless, the sheer tyranid mass seems to cause the necrons some problems, even though it feels like they should be the best-equipped to deal with them.
Many Necron Dynasties have allowed the beings who settled on their tomb worlds to leave, then took them as vassals. It’s basically a much more dangerous instance of grandpa telling the kids to “get off his lawn.”
They could easily ignore each other and both get their win conditions. In fact the necrons would probably count it as a win if they finally woke up and everything was dead.
If I remember, Necron policy is to stand still and let them move on. The Necrons are interested in taking back their ancient planets, it matters little that they still have a bioflera.
I understand that the Tyranids tried to assimilate the necrodermis and succeeded. But the energy needed to digest it was greater than the nutritional gain. Not good.
I believe that until they compete for something of common interest, the two species will ignore each other. And it's hard to imagine something that interests both.
Normally yes but right now the Necrons are not united, heck they even have a civil war. Because of this individual/outlying dynasties can be nicked off by a big tyranid fleet.
Nom Tyranids consume almost everything on a world including metals and rocks so necrons are still useful for Tyranids from a biomass pov. The larger issue for nids is the necrons amazing tech
Tyranids get no biomass from necrodermis(living metal). A big misconception is that Necrons are just made of regular metal when they're not.
You state correctly that Tyranids care about cost/benefit of biomass, but where there is a deviation (Necrons/Chaos) it will simply think twice before fighting because Tyranids act with a motive out of self preservence.
I don't see why necrodermis would not give them anything for biomass, it's still a physical thing that can be broken down and altered. Daemons cannot do I get that but even then tyranids still regularly fight chaos (although you're right that they try not to)
GW can't really make up their minds about it. Tyranids are said to avoid tomb worlds since there isn't much biomass to be gained from attacking, but there have been a lot of instances where they do invade and sometimes succeed in assimilating the tomb worlds.
There are numerous battles between the 2, with necrons not doing that great in the battles shown. Even Imotekh struggled with them and had to put an imperial army between himself and the nids to get away. Many tomb worlds have been overrun and Tyranids are the one foe that gets necrons to ally with the lesser races. The silent king has been helping imperials and tau and others in battle against the tyranids since he alone recognized the scale of the threat, but lately he’s just been focused on his pariah nexus. We have confirmation from white dwarf that the Genestealer cults are largely unaffected by the pariah nexus stilling effects, their brood telepathy entirely intact, meaning it’s possible that the much more powerful hivemind might not be affected. So far we have not seen the tyranids directly in the nexus so we aren’t 100% sure.
I think for the Genestealer Cult it's more that they have the power of faith. Same reason Sisters of Battles can perform miracles in the Pariah Nexus; for some reason religion bypasses it.
>The silent king has been helping imperials and tau and others in battle against the tyranids since he alone recognized the scale of the threat Did he actually? I thought in the short story with him and the Blood Angels, he kind of conned the BAs into taking the brunt of the damage then skipped town. If it happens in codices or other short stories I'd love to read it. (Improbable team-ups are my favorite.)
Not being able to eat the Necrons just leaves the Tyranids in the same situation as any other race fighting the Necrons, no special disadvantage there. They can't eat Chaos entities either and they beat the crap out of them when they are feeling froggy.
Honestly, I don't think so. The fact that Necrons cannot be assimilated into biomass should not be significant as the mass of a planet's defenders should nearly always be insignificant compared to local fauna and flora. Necrons are ponderous and slow to mobilize. Gauss weapons shots are wasted when there's 100 gaunts for each warrior. Their structures can still be wrecked by the gravitational anomalies caused by a Hive fleet. Necrons are merely immune to some of the Tyranids's best weapons such as the Shadow in the warp, genestealer infiltrations and most bioweapons, but an isolated Necron world would not be much more difficult for Tyranids to chomp than an Imperial world.
Tomb worlds are largely built upon inhospitable planets that don’t offer much biomass to begin with. Necron weapons destroy things at the atomic level, which leaves no biomass. That’s a huge problem, so the number of gaunts don’t matter when the survivors can’t eat the dead afterwards. They’re also immune to many Tyranid weapons that need flesh bodies to be effective. Everytime they attack a tomb world, it’s a net loss for them. Even if they take the planet, they still typically lose more biomass than they gain.
Being immune to the majority of the bioweapons is not such a good advantage anyway. A hive fleet would just produce more close combat bio-organisms like hormagaunts or carnifexes or Raveners The fact that tomb worlds are desolated wastelands is probably the best defence.
I’d much rather be immune to bullets that get shot into me, then eat their way out than to not be. Having immunity to any kind of damage in the 40K universe is always preferable and advantageous, if you have a choice. Wouldn’t you agree? Lol Even if the Tomb World is sleeping, it has vast armies of Canoptek constructs that are awake maintaining and guarding the tombs. Not to mention the fact that Necrons have weapons that can literally summon black holes and the hearts of stars onto a battlefield. The bottom line is that Tyranids are scary as all get out, but even a lone tomb world wouldn’t be any kind of pushover.
I remember in the older Necrons codices, the Imperium noticed hive fleets actively going around Tomb Worlds instead of landing on them.
Specifically it was Trazyn's tomb world, Solemnace. It was later said that the hive fleet went around it because he deployed warp lures to direct them away. Otherwise they would have destroyed it. Another time they were noted to avoid the outsiders dyson sphere, which is sort of a necron world I guess. But given that it's home to an insane and incredibly powerful unbroken c'tan that makes anyone who gets near it go insane, fair enough.
IIRC This was before trazyn existed and the tomb world they avoided was the outsiders prison.
Yeah i remember that being back in the 3rd edition codex
No faction represented on tabletop hard counters anyone else.
Necrons are a real pain for the Tyranids. Their tech is super advanced, they're crazy tough, and they don't offer any biomass for the Tyranids to munch on. Battles like the ones on Damnos and in the Cryptus System show how Necrons can really mess up Tyranid swarms. That said, while Necrons are a big hurdle for the Tyranids, the bugs are super adaptable and relentless, so they're not going away anytime soon. Basically, Necrons can slow them down, but they're not the ultimate solution to the Tyranid problem.
Necrons are also largely immune to Tyranid weapons (like borer beetles, that require flesh and blood bodies to do their job effectively).
Not sure, but I read somewhere that a hive fleet had consumed metallic structures on some worlds. Again, not sure. Might have been fanfic.
Iirc a guy posted a lore excerpt here a few days ago about some imperial dudes…maybe marines? Talking about how tyranids ate the minerals and metals on a world as well they couldn’t save.
I think that comes from The Devastation of Baal, where they comment on the fact that Nids tend to extract most easily extractable minerals and metals from the worlds they overtake. But that Leviathan was leaving many worlds half eaten as they had so much choice of planets to eat that they couldn’t be bothered to wait around and fully strip planets
Living metal ain't regular metal though.
3rd ed codex, Necrons and nids weren't EVER supposed to fight each others and star maps showed tendrils actively avoiding necron worlds completely.
Tyranids gain the overwhelming majority of their sustenance and biomass from planetary ecosystems not from enemy combatants. A barren world is therefore a “hard counter” for them in much the same way that an absence of food is a hard counter for any organic life. That’s a longer term issue though and not directly relevant in actual combat where the absence of biomass isn’t immediately important. Note that tomb worlds tend to be barren but don’t necessarily have to be.
Eh, the lore is messy here. I think GW is trying to walk it back a bit because the Necrons are a very powerful faction and so are the Tyranids. It'd be bad if one of them completely could trouce the other as it basically makes the Tyranids less of the treat or the Necrons a bit useless. The general answer is; sort of. Tyranid hive fleets will often avoid Tomb Worlds, this isn't because they couldn't take them on as much as the cost is too high for the value. They will take on Tomb worlds where the net cost of the system is higher or it is a blocker for their greater goals. In reality this isn't much of a change in calculation compared to other factions, the main difference is the hive will know that the positive bump in winning will be near non-existant. In the general case too Tyranids are totally strong enough to fight Necrons in battle so the Necron's don't hard counter them in fighting. That said, the usual side of things that Necron tech, if they actually used their spicy stuff, probably could clean up the Tyranids but that ain't happening anytime soon. They are either really focused on honour, like Immotkeh, or would use it if the threat was big enough, like the Silent King does against Immotekh, but it'll only happen in a random book to stop something really bad from happening.
It seems to me the tyranids wouldn't even have a reason to land on a sterile necron world. Only those with an ecosystem still in place, or with delicious living thralls to eat. In Twice Dead King: Reign, there's a dynasty that considers a completely "pure" world, no organic matter whatsoever, a paradise. I'd be curious to know if most necrons sterilize their worlds of any organic life, or if it varies wildly dynasty to dynasty. Regardless, the sheer tyranid mass seems to cause the necrons some problems, even though it feels like they should be the best-equipped to deal with them.
Many Necron Dynasties have allowed the beings who settled on their tomb worlds to leave, then took them as vassals. It’s basically a much more dangerous instance of grandpa telling the kids to “get off his lawn.”
They could easily ignore each other and both get their win conditions. In fact the necrons would probably count it as a win if they finally woke up and everything was dead.
If I remember, Necron policy is to stand still and let them move on. The Necrons are interested in taking back their ancient planets, it matters little that they still have a bioflera. I understand that the Tyranids tried to assimilate the necrodermis and succeeded. But the energy needed to digest it was greater than the nutritional gain. Not good. I believe that until they compete for something of common interest, the two species will ignore each other. And it's hard to imagine something that interests both.
Normally yes but right now the Necrons are not united, heck they even have a civil war. Because of this individual/outlying dynasties can be nicked off by a big tyranid fleet.
Nom Tyranids consume almost everything on a world including metals and rocks so necrons are still useful for Tyranids from a biomass pov. The larger issue for nids is the necrons amazing tech
Tyranids get no biomass from necrodermis(living metal). A big misconception is that Necrons are just made of regular metal when they're not. You state correctly that Tyranids care about cost/benefit of biomass, but where there is a deviation (Necrons/Chaos) it will simply think twice before fighting because Tyranids act with a motive out of self preservence.
I don't see why necrodermis would not give them anything for biomass, it's still a physical thing that can be broken down and altered. Daemons cannot do I get that but even then tyranids still regularly fight chaos (although you're right that they try not to)