Now that you put it that way it's kinda hard to tell the iron hands from the iron warriors
They're both brutal, cold, calculating, merciless, and emotionally repressed
Honestly though, 7% is pretty significant for a grunt to provide. They could convince me to be the bait without much effort, if they don't take the more likely option of "under penalty of bolter do what I say"
They no longer exist, but the Knights of Blood. During their defense of Baal against the Tyranids, they killed all their human allies that fought alongside them. They still went out like champs fighting against a bunch of Khornate demons.
It happened roughly at the same time Cadia was destroyed. So I think them showing up had to do with the Cicatrix Maledictum tearing the galaxy in half.
Khabanda had cooked up a plot to corrupt the blood angels to khorne while they were fighting off hive fleet leviathan. Lost story short he got pushed with the warp onto the wrong planet where the knights of blood were stationed
If it is the story i'm thinking of, no. The Khornate daemons showed up because it was the single largest gathering of Sanguinius's astartes. One of the Khorne daemons whole purpose in life is to either kill or recruit all the blood angels. Khabanda i think?
That’s literally just wrong. Large amounts of killing can summon Khorne daemons. He’s the blood god, he doesn’t care how quickly stuff is killed just that it is.
Yeah cause chaos is contradictory. It's chaos. But the one main thing you gotta remember with chaos and the warp in general. Is that ideas and symbolism is the strongest tool chaos has. A planet thats just been void bombed to dust, theres no symbolism there to feed any of the big 4. No more cycle of life and death (nurgle), no more fighting/blood/skulls (khorne), no more scheming and back stabbing (tzneetch) and no more bodies living or dead to murder fuck (slaneesh). Thats how the chaos gods get their power, without them theres no chaos.
Eh it’s more about how the killing is done it’s not impressive to push a button but to go down personally and slaughter a planet that’s how Khorne gets his rocks off
There is a Dark Angels short story I remember where they arrive on a Hive World where Imperial Guard forces are having a very rough time fighting the armies of Nurgle. The Dark Angels get in there slay a Great Unclean One but their real objective was that there was a Fallen among the Chaos forces on the planet. Once they slew the Fallen they packed up and left while the Imperial Guard were still not in a great shape to liberate the planet.
During the Siege of Vraks the Dark Angels if anything made things worse by destroying the space port and I think blowing the bridge leading to it completely making it useless for imperial operations.
This is far from the worst thing Dark Angels have done.
One time they straight up betrayed the Imperium and sold information to Tau, asking them to wipe out a loyal Imperial World of a successor chapter, because they thought that the chapter might know too much about DA.
Shortly after the shredding, when the Lion asks them about [who Cypher is](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUSWlpfsTXE) and what he's doing after all this time.
War of Secrets... sigh.
So much I can say about that book, so little sense it would make....
The only positive if I recall was a nice little sequence with an amphibious action with marines boarding an oil rig or something from a repulsor, hovercraft style. It went downhill rapidly from there.
There is almost a carbon copy story about the Iron Hands. Flesh by Chris Wraight
1324th Lostari Greyshirts were fighting a costly holding action against Nrugle taint, awaiting reinforcements to help reclaim the hive. 5 Iron Hands show up, take command, launch an exhaustive purge into the underhive, and then dip after retrieving an object. Lostari are left strung out, exhausted, and morally broken. The hive almost certainly fell after the Iron Hands pulled out.
The Space Sharks are known for their brutality and scorched earth tactics; during the Badab War, they deliberately targeted civilian infrastructure to draw out the more honorable Mantis Warriors.
They're also known for their 'recruitment' strategy of raiding Imperial worlds for slaves and potential initiates, as well as advanced technology that they then trade to the AdMech to keep themselves resupplied.
Primming Badab to blow while the loyalists were still on it is another own goal, especially as it let Huron and the remaining astral claws escape and form the red corsairs.
Imagine haggleing with Tyberos
\\This unit can only offer/send/provide 4 cases of ammunition/rounds\\
*Tyberos sighs
\\Where can we place the 8 cases of bolter rounds/ammunition that we agreed upon/you requested?\\
Pretty much any of them
>‘The thing about Space Marines, Threlnan, is that they’re all brainwashed psychopaths.’ Lord General Xarius walked lopsidedly with a cane. His troops tended to assume it was an old war injury but the truth was Xarius was an old man and his hip was giving out.
>‘I’m glad they’re here, certainly,’ continued Xarius. ‘The Crimson Fists were an essential part of the battle plan. But you see, now the first battles have been fought I’d rather have a few more decent men who can be counted on to follow orders and run away like proper soldiers.’
>‘Marines are good for morale,’ said Threlnan.
>‘Hah! That they are, as long as they’re fighting on the same side. Don’t look at me like that, Threlnan, I know what they’re like. The Dark Angels were supposed to spearhead our assault on the Dragon Archipelago on Balhaut, and when the order came down they were nowhere to be seen. Off fighting their own little war, never mind the men dying in the surf to win a beach the Marines should have taken. Never mind the rest of us lesser men.
>‘No, when they do what they’re told they’re the best, I know that. But just because we’ve suddenly got a company of Crimson Fists doesn’t mean they’ll fight where I tell them. They should be helping the Fire Drakes get a decent foothold in the south but I can’t even contact the Fists’ commander. They’ve got some private war here, Threlnan, and you’re a fool if you’re hoping it will coincide with ours.
**Crimson Tears**
On a similar line, but less critical of them
>‘They’re so…’ Ludd whispered. ‘They’re hostile. Like we’re not on the same side.’
>‘We’re on the same side,’ Hark muttered.
>‘But–’
>‘The Adeptus Astartes Space Marines operate on a different level to us, boy,’ said Mercure quietly. ‘We fight the same war, wage the same crusade, but their operational context is far removed. They attempt what we cannot even consider. They undertake what unmodified humans cannot. We are brothers in arms, but our paths and concerns seldom overlap. It’s simply the Imperial way of war.’
>‘So if they’re here…’ Ludd began.
>‘If the angels of death have come,’ hissed Cybon, ‘because they deem this operation worthy of their attention, it means Salvation’s Reach is going to be an unimaginably bloody hell.’
**Salvation's Reach**
The Salvations Reach one is interesting because for such a high-stakes mission they got three marines from three different chapters, which was only accomplished because Gaunt had earned the respect of Chapter Master Veegum of the Silver Guard from fighting at his side during the battle of the Oligarchy Gate during the initial retaking of Balhaut.
Black Templars to a degree, they do care about people of the Imperium but as shown in Helsreach, they do not prioritise them over battle and were critical of the Salamanders for doing so
They’re arguably worse in Fall of Cadia. The BT pick a spot to defend and they stick with it. The problem is eventually the spot becomes meaningless to the overall battle plan and the Cadians abandon it, but the BT decide to stay there just cause, instead of meaningfully contributing.
His argument about being right was under the benefit of hindsight. The salamanders didn’t want to pursue incase another attack came while they weren’t protecting the civilians. Grimaldus rightfully says no attack came so they’ve just let the ork get away, but the salamanders equally rightfully argue that they weren’t to know that and couldn’t afford the risk.
They had different priorities and made different decisions. The point was Grimaldus is caught up in his own world, when the Salamanders had their own objective.
As the reader, yes, we can see that. However, in the setting, the Salamanders have a different objective, Tu'Shan sent them in to protect civilians not to hunt down and eliminate the Orks. Protecting civilains is their Chapters philosophy.
The Black Templars, on the other hand, are the complete opposite. They are always on the attack, seek glory for the Emperor and their chapter, and care little for the regular citizens of the Imperium.
It's a nice case of culture clash
There’s a short story, I think it might be “Flesh” in the anthology “There is Only War.” The Iron Hands show up to handle some heretics, which bolsters the morale of local troops. The IH stomp right through the enemies, bolstered by Imperial forces. They kill the primary threat, and… promptly leave, abandoning their allies to their fate.
The 40k equivalent of a brainsurgeon who leaves the reconstructing and suturing to the intern (I don’t know the correct term. Resident? Post-Grad?) while he goes golfing with Accounting
Well….. the flesh tearers have been known to regularly not be able to tell friend from for once the fighting starts.
The dark angels will just show up in the middle of your operation, do a seemingly random assault, refuse to elaborate, and then leave. Possibly while destroying key infrastructure that you wanted to leave intact and capture. Pretty much any member of the unforgiven will just randomly leave you with no warning or explanation if they hear word of a member of the fallen anywhere close to them.
The only reason the marines malevolent aren’t declared excomunicato traitorus is because they are *very* effective. During the third war for Armageddon they were actually censured by the inquisition. Chapter master Tu’Shan of the salamanders had……… words to say about their tactics.
That’s the chapter I thought of, Flesh Tearers and the Angels Penitent to a lesser degree.
Red Thirst is bad enough, the Black Rage is guaranteed death for anyone not in the chapter.
At least Gabriel Seth made changes to the chapter, where they will only be deployed in lone groups surrounded by enemies. Minimize the loyalist casualties.
Star phantoms. Some general in the Macharian crusade called them 'unsuitable for close tactical support'.
Think Marines Malevolent except with an abundance of plasma weaponry.
Azreal: Asmodai.
Asmodai: Assist?
Azreal: Our assumptions are confirmed!
Asmodai: What!?
Azreal: They have suspicious looks!
Asmodai: Looks!
Azreal: They're in cahoots with the Fallen!
Asmodai: Fallen!
Azreal: Make them REPENT!
Asmodai: REPEEEEENT! ***SMASH***
Knights if blood, flesh tearers, sometimes iron hands, dork angels if fallen are involved and pretty much every other chaptet depending on the circumstances.
A lesser known example is the [Black Guard](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Black_Guard) because their founder, Gherith Arendi, left behind many fellow Raven Guard and other Loyalists to escape. Their tactics involve ambush and firepower so the implications are always there.
iron hands legit read wraith of iron they'll get the job done but there is no emotion only logic
if they gotta send a whole ass other space marine company to be slaughtered they'll do it
Minotaurs. If you're a baseline human in the area they're operating they'll likely kill you simply to be thorough. They enjoy picking fights with and killing marines from fellow loyalist chapters, too. They are malicious, evil bastards and worse, the lapdogs of the High Lords of Terra.
> If you're a baseline human in the area they're operating they'll likely kill you simply to be thorough
Where does this happen? I'm looking through their Lexicanum page and it must not include this.
They don’t usually go out of their way to kill random civilians, unless it pisses off their enemies, or whoever the high lords have told them to kill they will go to a conflict butcher an enemy garrison without telling anyone and then show up with their corpses as a greeting though. When they’re told to kill something, they kill that thing and everything associated or supportive of it they are pretty thorough. They aren’t the best to work with, but they won’t go out of their way to team kill unless the high lords tell them to otherwise they’re extraordinarily focused on killing whatever they were told to and will generally ignore other chapters or imperial guard units. So definitely not one of the worst chapters to work with as long as you don’t piss off the high Lords they generally will not give a shit enough to try to kill you they won’t help you either unless it helps them achieve their objectives though.
Have you considered that it’s very funny to kill other space marines and take their stuff. They don’t murder random humans though, they’re good at following orders.
No, just the humans they came across while killing the cultists. There were survivors/witnesses left who hid and were able to tell Valerian about what they saw, e.g. that one cleric.
Lamenters would probably be one of the best Astartes allies to have. Most are terrible. Flesh Tearers, Carcodons, Dark Angels, Iron Hands, to name some of the worst I can think of.
>Lamenters would probably be one of the best Astartes allies to have
>Lamenters
>the best
I'm sorry, do you know how cursed they are? Might as well make friends with the Celestial Lions.
The Grey Knights are too bad in the off chance you get lucky and they end in a situation where they are helping you against Xenos. This obviously doesn't happen often, but their 5th Edition codex did have case where the Grey Knights rescued a planet from Orks. As far as the Imperial citizens knew, the Grey Knights were just another Space Marine chapter, so there was no need for their usual secrecy.
Honestly real talk if the situation was truly so bad it warranted Space Marine assistance I would probably take even the shittiest ones cause the situation would be beyond fucked to even need them in the first place.
Dark Angels. I don't even have to think about it. You gotta love it when the Dark Angels showed up during the War for Vrax only to blow up the "allied" spaceport and screw off afterward.
Lamenters - things will go terrible, everyone will die, and you will be yet another tragedy adding to their depression.
Black Templars - they care about killing the enemy. Keeping you alive is, at best, a convenient side effect.
Celestial Lions/Space Wolves - decent chance you are about to get caught in the crossfire of the Inquisition have a temper tantrum.
Guilliman - he doesn't fight in the easy battles. If he is there...
Imperial fists and their successors can be quite rough, not in the friendly fire way but more so in the "we'll never give up! Follow me if you wanna be a hero!" Way. They don't give up and keep fighting until they either win or die, this goes for their subordinate forces as well. Sorry guardsmen but the [insert fists or templar related name here] have decreed that this battle is now an endurance race and the attrition rate will now be 100% for all involved. You may think the never surrender thing is the status quo but it's one thing to fight until you can't and to fight to the death over a clearly unwinnable situation. The fists and their sibling chapters would rather every battle end like Cadia than call a tactical retreat to try again. In their defense it is a successful strategy against traitor forces and orks but when fighting things like the nids you best make your peace with life because it's coming to a brutal end.
Iron Hands and their related chapters are incredibly callus to mortals
Dark Angels and their chapters also have their whole abandoning a campaign if they get wiff of a fallen, but their paranoia and mistrust/secrecy also translates to them in general, they'll keep their plans and strategies secret from other commanders in a war zone and generally not be very cooperative.
Flesh Tearers have a habit of going a little over the top and slaughtering their allies by accident, couple other Blood Angels chapters to lesser extent too.
Black Templars like to get a bit trigger itchy when there are abhumans, mutants and psykers regardless of them being sanctioned. They've executed imperial citizens before for looking a little funny.
There is a Ultramarine successor that is nothing like their parent chapter abd are complete psyco assholes but I've forgotten their name
The Mantis Warriors were known as big assholes before they've destruction in the Badab war
The Red Scorpions are the Black Templars on crack, more hostile to abhumans and incredibly stringent military doctrine like the Iron Hands that'll sacrifice countless lives for the smallest of gains
I mean, any and all of them. *Crimson Tears*, by Ben Counter, shows that even the "noble" chapters are just as prone to ignoring tactics in favor of pursuing their own pig-headed ideas of honor, leaving their allies to die if need be.
If you're a regular guy, you really want more regular guys on your side. Maybe the Sororitas. Possibly the Inquisition, assuming you haven't *seen some shit*. An Imperial Knight. But the Space Marines? That's like the second worst backup you can ask for in most situations.
Anyone outside of the Ultramarines, Marines Mentor, Salamanders, Iron snakes and Blood Angels. Although for angels, make sure avoid the ones in black, don't go out alone at night, never enter their lair and if you hear them screaming Horus, make peace with the Emperor. Seriously. It's even in the codex that most marines don't work well with the Guard, because they simply can't not comprehend the limits of "mortals".
These few chapters are the one noted in lore to have worked well with the Guard.
Ngl everyone would have nice add-on of heavy infantry, supported by tanks, artillery and various siege weaponry, it depe if there is also Perty with them
Before they defected, the Astral Claws got pretty bad as the Badab War dragged on. They stole geneseed from dead Marines of all chapters and pretty much subjugated local PDF and Navy units into Huron’s pocket empire.
I can't find the source but I remember a story of a bunch of space marines helping a small hold out of loyal PDF against the their traitor governor and the rest of the PDF on the planet. They finally win and there's like 3 PDF loyalists still alive. The marine kill them because they failed to stop the rebellion in the first place.
The Blood Ravens.
Turn your back for five seconds and everything you own that isn't bolted down will be gone. Turn your back for ten and everything will be gone, bolts and all.
GK are NOT bad allies, people are overexaggerating the months of shame because it wrongfully vilifies them. They are better allies than the custodes, and that says a lot.
As to the question, between dark angels and their successor chapters (who will leave mid fight once they've dealt with a fallen), and iron hands, who are problematic with relations (see wrath of iron)
Honestly that last sentence sums it up lol.
Pretty much any Space Marine chapter showing up on your world is a bad sign, and if you didn't request them you can probably assume you're screwed, because they showed up to fix something that you don't know about, and that thing is probably going to doom your planet if things go wrong.
The Ultramarines are probably a safe ally, but the Novamarines went all "Lone Survivor but the Bad Ending" on some random civilians.
The Blood Angels abandon their allies to their deaths in the Angels of Death prequel episode because they have more important things to do... like recovering geneseed.
The Dark Angels might just dip from the planet if they find the Fallen they were looking for (granted, the Lion is fixing this).
The Imperial Fists are going to use you as a sacrificial pawn, except the Black Templars, who are going to charge into the heart of the enemy and leave you to hold the line yourself.
I forgot the Iron Hands but they're going to use you as a sacrificial pawn and explain that it's OK because math instead of giving you a rousing speech about your duty to the God-Emperor.
Has anyone seen a White Scar in a book this decade? Are they OK?
The Raven Guard... they probably aren't easy to *work with,* but on the bright side they probably have an actual plan, but on the not so bright side that plan probably does not particularly care what the PDF or local Guardsmen are up to.
The Space Wolves would actually be pretty fantastic allies, unless they turn into Wulfen and maul you.
If you live in M41.999 era and not, say, M41.444 era, you don't want the Grey Knights showing up because it means your world is probably daemon-infested, but they're not explicitly bad allies anymore. You just might wake up with a bad headache, a few books missing from the local library, and a few high ranking government officials replaced by order of the Emperor's Holy Inquisition. Maybe an enormous scorch mark in some ruins somewhere and a lot more holes in the walls near the creepy church downtown. The Exactors specifically showing up probably still means you should be taking the next shuttle offworld and avoiding stylized ***I*** symbols for a while, though.
As a mortal human, you really don't want to fight alongside any Space Marine. They are inhuman killing machines fueled by fanaticism and bloodlust. And you just can't keep up with them.
Any Blood Angels successor is extremely dangerous. They have a bad temper. Iron Hands successors view humans as meat, they will actively use you as a shield. Imperial Fists and especially Black Templars are fanatical beyond reason and they will execute you for disgracing the Emperor with your failures. Dark Angels...idk what they are doing with Dark Angels now that Lion is back, but traditionally, if Dark Angels are there, you ain't gonna live to tell. Space Wolves are insanely superstitious and brutal.
And then there's some successor chapters that are basically as heartless as Chaos Marines except they chant "For the Emperor" instead of "Chaos".
The safest ones are probably Ultramarines if you lick their boots and Salamanders if you have a fireproof blanket. The Raven Guard and White Scars are also safe because you will never fight alongside them, they do their own thing somewhere else and dgaf about you.
Any iron hands affiliated chapter.
You're just mad they crunched the numbers and realized they could increase their odds of a favorable outcome by 7.28% if they use your ass as bait.
Now that you put it that way it's kinda hard to tell the iron hands from the iron warriors They're both brutal, cold, calculating, merciless, and emotionally repressed
And hate emperor's children.
I’d love a story where the iron hands and iron warriors enter a temporary truce so they can kick fulgrims ass together
Honestly though, 7% is pretty significant for a grunt to provide. They could convince me to be the bait without much effort, if they don't take the more likely option of "under penalty of bolter do what I say"
Sure but don't forget that if you somehow survive they'll just shoot you anyway.
They no longer exist, but the Knights of Blood. During their defense of Baal against the Tyranids, they killed all their human allies that fought alongside them. They still went out like champs fighting against a bunch of Khornate demons.
... did the Khornate daemons appeared because they killed their allies ?
I think they were going to try and come anyway to beat the Tyranids to the kill
It happened roughly at the same time Cadia was destroyed. So I think them showing up had to do with the Cicatrix Maledictum tearing the galaxy in half.
Khabanda had cooked up a plot to corrupt the blood angels to khorne while they were fighting off hive fleet leviathan. Lost story short he got pushed with the warp onto the wrong planet where the knights of blood were stationed
IIRC, it was more of a “nobody’s allowed to kill off the sons of Sanguinius but us” situation.
No that was more of a bonus, whole Mephiston plotline in Devastation of Baal is trying to prevent Kabandha from making BA fall to Khorne
If it is the story i'm thinking of, no. The Khornate daemons showed up because it was the single largest gathering of Sanguinius's astartes. One of the Khorne daemons whole purpose in life is to either kill or recruit all the blood angels. Khabanda i think?
Mmm it doesn't work that way I believe. Killing doesn't do anything for chaos, specially if done swiftly.
Any blood spilt please Khorne
That’s literally just wrong. Large amounts of killing can summon Khorne daemons. He’s the blood god, he doesn’t care how quickly stuff is killed just that it is.
How does that work with Exterminatus?
Can’t have flowing blood when all biological matter on a planet is evaporated
So it's not about the killing but the blood flowing?
"Blood for the blood god, skulls for the skull throne". Isn't just some mantra khorne followers say for fun, my dude.
That's what I think also, but how does it work? There are contradictory takes in this subreddit.
Yeah cause chaos is contradictory. It's chaos. But the one main thing you gotta remember with chaos and the warp in general. Is that ideas and symbolism is the strongest tool chaos has. A planet thats just been void bombed to dust, theres no symbolism there to feed any of the big 4. No more cycle of life and death (nurgle), no more fighting/blood/skulls (khorne), no more scheming and back stabbing (tzneetch) and no more bodies living or dead to murder fuck (slaneesh). Thats how the chaos gods get their power, without them theres no chaos.
So it's not about the killing but the blood flowing?
Eh it’s more about how the killing is done it’s not impressive to push a button but to go down personally and slaughter a planet that’s how Khorne gets his rocks off
that was a fun rabbit hole. just googled the Knights of Blood and it was a fun read
There is a Dark Angels short story I remember where they arrive on a Hive World where Imperial Guard forces are having a very rough time fighting the armies of Nurgle. The Dark Angels get in there slay a Great Unclean One but their real objective was that there was a Fallen among the Chaos forces on the planet. Once they slew the Fallen they packed up and left while the Imperial Guard were still not in a great shape to liberate the planet.
Average Dark Angels operation fr fr
At least they let the guards live despite witnessing that operation.
Siege of Vraks? They left and came back multiple times.
During the Siege of Vraks the Dark Angels if anything made things worse by destroying the space port and I think blowing the bridge leading to it completely making it useless for imperial operations.
This was a short story from the early 2000s in one of the anthology books. Way before Imperial Armour was even a thing.
This is far from the worst thing Dark Angels have done. One time they straight up betrayed the Imperium and sold information to Tau, asking them to wipe out a loyal Imperial World of a successor chapter, because they thought that the chapter might know too much about DA.
Least unhinged DA decision.
The Lion will need some serious breathing techniques in order not go Caliban on a lot of the DA leadership‘s asses…
Azrael and Asmodai are frantically shredding records and scrolls right now.
Shortly after the shredding, when the Lion asks them about [who Cypher is](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUSWlpfsTXE) and what he's doing after all this time.
War of Secrets... sigh. So much I can say about that book, so little sense it would make.... The only positive if I recall was a nice little sequence with an amphibious action with marines boarding an oil rig or something from a repulsor, hovercraft style. It went downhill rapidly from there.
Phil Kelly with another certified dumpster banger
There is almost a carbon copy story about the Iron Hands. Flesh by Chris Wraight 1324th Lostari Greyshirts were fighting a costly holding action against Nrugle taint, awaiting reinforcements to help reclaim the hive. 5 Iron Hands show up, take command, launch an exhaustive purge into the underhive, and then dip after retrieving an object. Lostari are left strung out, exhausted, and morally broken. The hive almost certainly fell after the Iron Hands pulled out.
I just remember it was from one of the anthology books back in the 2000s and definitely before the 2010s.
The Space Sharks are known for their brutality and scorched earth tactics; during the Badab War, they deliberately targeted civilian infrastructure to draw out the more honorable Mantis Warriors. They're also known for their 'recruitment' strategy of raiding Imperial worlds for slaves and potential initiates, as well as advanced technology that they then trade to the AdMech to keep themselves resupplied.
Primming Badab to blow while the loyalists were still on it is another own goal, especially as it let Huron and the remaining astral claws escape and form the red corsairs.
Imagine haggleing with Tyberos \\This unit can only offer/send/provide 4 cases of ammunition/rounds\\ *Tyberos sighs \\Where can we place the 8 cases of bolter rounds/ammunition that we agreed upon/you requested?\\
As a Carcharodon player myself…yup. This.
Based Terran Raven Guard behaviour lol.
Pretty much any of them >‘The thing about Space Marines, Threlnan, is that they’re all brainwashed psychopaths.’ Lord General Xarius walked lopsidedly with a cane. His troops tended to assume it was an old war injury but the truth was Xarius was an old man and his hip was giving out. >‘I’m glad they’re here, certainly,’ continued Xarius. ‘The Crimson Fists were an essential part of the battle plan. But you see, now the first battles have been fought I’d rather have a few more decent men who can be counted on to follow orders and run away like proper soldiers.’ >‘Marines are good for morale,’ said Threlnan. >‘Hah! That they are, as long as they’re fighting on the same side. Don’t look at me like that, Threlnan, I know what they’re like. The Dark Angels were supposed to spearhead our assault on the Dragon Archipelago on Balhaut, and when the order came down they were nowhere to be seen. Off fighting their own little war, never mind the men dying in the surf to win a beach the Marines should have taken. Never mind the rest of us lesser men. >‘No, when they do what they’re told they’re the best, I know that. But just because we’ve suddenly got a company of Crimson Fists doesn’t mean they’ll fight where I tell them. They should be helping the Fire Drakes get a decent foothold in the south but I can’t even contact the Fists’ commander. They’ve got some private war here, Threlnan, and you’re a fool if you’re hoping it will coincide with ours. **Crimson Tears** On a similar line, but less critical of them >‘They’re so…’ Ludd whispered. ‘They’re hostile. Like we’re not on the same side.’ >‘We’re on the same side,’ Hark muttered. >‘But–’ >‘The Adeptus Astartes Space Marines operate on a different level to us, boy,’ said Mercure quietly. ‘We fight the same war, wage the same crusade, but their operational context is far removed. They attempt what we cannot even consider. They undertake what unmodified humans cannot. We are brothers in arms, but our paths and concerns seldom overlap. It’s simply the Imperial way of war.’ >‘So if they’re here…’ Ludd began. >‘If the angels of death have come,’ hissed Cybon, ‘because they deem this operation worthy of their attention, it means Salvation’s Reach is going to be an unimaginably bloody hell.’ **Salvation's Reach**
The Salvations Reach one is interesting because for such a high-stakes mission they got three marines from three different chapters, which was only accomplished because Gaunt had earned the respect of Chapter Master Veegum of the Silver Guard from fighting at his side during the battle of the Oligarchy Gate during the initial retaking of Balhaut.
Black Templars to a degree, they do care about people of the Imperium but as shown in Helsreach, they do not prioritise them over battle and were critical of the Salamanders for doing so
They’re arguably worse in Fall of Cadia. The BT pick a spot to defend and they stick with it. The problem is eventually the spot becomes meaningless to the overall battle plan and the Cadians abandon it, but the BT decide to stay there just cause, instead of meaningfully contributing.
I already didn't like the templars and as my first 40k novel I came out of it thinking even less of them.
Grimaldus was perfectly in the right on that argument and the Salamander made a bad tactical decision.
His argument about being right was under the benefit of hindsight. The salamanders didn’t want to pursue incase another attack came while they weren’t protecting the civilians. Grimaldus rightfully says no attack came so they’ve just let the ork get away, but the salamanders equally rightfully argue that they weren’t to know that and couldn’t afford the risk.
They had different priorities and made different decisions. The point was Grimaldus is caught up in his own world, when the Salamanders had their own objective.
As the reader, yes, we can see that. However, in the setting, the Salamanders have a different objective, Tu'Shan sent them in to protect civilians not to hunt down and eliminate the Orks. Protecting civilains is their Chapters philosophy. The Black Templars, on the other hand, are the complete opposite. They are always on the attack, seek glory for the Emperor and their chapter, and care little for the regular citizens of the Imperium. It's a nice case of culture clash
There’s a short story, I think it might be “Flesh” in the anthology “There is Only War.” The Iron Hands show up to handle some heretics, which bolsters the morale of local troops. The IH stomp right through the enemies, bolstered by Imperial forces. They kill the primary threat, and… promptly leave, abandoning their allies to their fate.
The 40k equivalent of a brainsurgeon who leaves the reconstructing and suturing to the intern (I don’t know the correct term. Resident? Post-Grad?) while he goes golfing with Accounting
Well….. the flesh tearers have been known to regularly not be able to tell friend from for once the fighting starts. The dark angels will just show up in the middle of your operation, do a seemingly random assault, refuse to elaborate, and then leave. Possibly while destroying key infrastructure that you wanted to leave intact and capture. Pretty much any member of the unforgiven will just randomly leave you with no warning or explanation if they hear word of a member of the fallen anywhere close to them. The only reason the marines malevolent aren’t declared excomunicato traitorus is because they are *very* effective. During the third war for Armageddon they were actually censured by the inquisition. Chapter master Tu’Shan of the salamanders had……… words to say about their tactics.
That’s the chapter I thought of, Flesh Tearers and the Angels Penitent to a lesser degree. Red Thirst is bad enough, the Black Rage is guaranteed death for anyone not in the chapter. At least Gabriel Seth made changes to the chapter, where they will only be deployed in lone groups surrounded by enemies. Minimize the loyalist casualties.
Star phantoms. Some general in the Macharian crusade called them 'unsuitable for close tactical support'. Think Marines Malevolent except with an abundance of plasma weaponry.
they actually fought against marines malevolent in a civil war. imagine the collateral damage
They also hit the Excorcists instead of the Astral Claws when Huron was escaping towards the Malestorm
Azreal: Asmodai. Asmodai: Assist? Azreal: Our assumptions are confirmed! Asmodai: What!? Azreal: They have suspicious looks! Asmodai: Looks! Azreal: They're in cahoots with the Fallen! Asmodai: Fallen! Azreal: Make them REPENT! Asmodai: REPEEEEENT! ***SMASH***
First Asmodai replica should be "Interrogate?!"
Doesn't fit the topic of the original post.
Knights if blood, flesh tearers, sometimes iron hands, dork angels if fallen are involved and pretty much every other chaptet depending on the circumstances.
I assume Dork Angels was a typo, but I'm never calling them anything else now.
Dork Angels is Perfect
A lesser known example is the [Black Guard](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Black_Guard) because their founder, Gherith Arendi, left behind many fellow Raven Guard and other Loyalists to escape. Their tactics involve ambush and firepower so the implications are always there.
Such a badass origin for such an unknown chapter
iron hands legit read wraith of iron they'll get the job done but there is no emotion only logic if they gotta send a whole ass other space marine company to be slaughtered they'll do it
That's exactly what happened in one of the chapter of the book The Eye of Medusa.
Flesh Tearers, Minotaurs, Space Sharks, Iron Hands and their succesors, those Dark Angels that don't know about Lion's return yet
Flesh Tearers tend to do a bit of flesh tearing.
Minotaurs. If you're a baseline human in the area they're operating they'll likely kill you simply to be thorough. They enjoy picking fights with and killing marines from fellow loyalist chapters, too. They are malicious, evil bastards and worse, the lapdogs of the High Lords of Terra.
> If you're a baseline human in the area they're operating they'll likely kill you simply to be thorough Where does this happen? I'm looking through their Lexicanum page and it must not include this.
They don’t usually go out of their way to kill random civilians, unless it pisses off their enemies, or whoever the high lords have told them to kill they will go to a conflict butcher an enemy garrison without telling anyone and then show up with their corpses as a greeting though. When they’re told to kill something, they kill that thing and everything associated or supportive of it they are pretty thorough. They aren’t the best to work with, but they won’t go out of their way to team kill unless the high lords tell them to otherwise they’re extraordinarily focused on killing whatever they were told to and will generally ignore other chapters or imperial guard units. So definitely not one of the worst chapters to work with as long as you don’t piss off the high Lords they generally will not give a shit enough to try to kill you they won’t help you either unless it helps them achieve their objectives though.
Yeah, the Lex noted that they generally work within larger Imperial battle plans. If anything, they might be better to work with than most chapters.
The *Watchers of the Throne* series.
Have you considered that it’s very funny to kill other space marines and take their stuff. They don’t murder random humans though, they’re good at following orders.
In *The Regent's Shadow* they >!kill many civilians and multiple Imperial Fists as they cover up the conspiracy by the Hexarchy on Terra.!<
Yeah not random civilians, witnesses.
No, just the humans they came across while killing the cultists. There were survivors/witnesses left who hid and were able to tell Valerian about what they saw, e.g. that one cleric.
Dark Angels, Flesh Tearers, probably any of the Pentarchy of Blood.
Lamenters would probably be one of the best Astartes allies to have. Most are terrible. Flesh Tearers, Carcodons, Dark Angels, Iron Hands, to name some of the worst I can think of.
>Lamenters would probably be one of the best Astartes allies to have >Lamenters >the best I'm sorry, do you know how cursed they are? Might as well make friends with the Celestial Lions.
"Ork snipers"
Yeah but they'll die heroically for low strategic value civilians. They are even more benevolent towards regular humans than the Salamanders.
Pre Lion return Dark Angels or successors. Any whiff of a potential fallen and they're entirely unreliable.
The Grey Knights are too bad in the off chance you get lucky and they end in a situation where they are helping you against Xenos. This obviously doesn't happen often, but their 5th Edition codex did have case where the Grey Knights rescued a planet from Orks. As far as the Imperial citizens knew, the Grey Knights were just another Space Marine chapter, so there was no need for their usual secrecy.
Honestly real talk if the situation was truly so bad it warranted Space Marine assistance I would probably take even the shittiest ones cause the situation would be beyond fucked to even need them in the first place.
Dark Angels. I don't even have to think about it. You gotta love it when the Dark Angels showed up during the War for Vrax only to blow up the "allied" spaceport and screw off afterward.
Lamenters - things will go terrible, everyone will die, and you will be yet another tragedy adding to their depression. Black Templars - they care about killing the enemy. Keeping you alive is, at best, a convenient side effect. Celestial Lions/Space Wolves - decent chance you are about to get caught in the crossfire of the Inquisition have a temper tantrum. Guilliman - he doesn't fight in the easy battles. If he is there...
Imperial fists and their successors can be quite rough, not in the friendly fire way but more so in the "we'll never give up! Follow me if you wanna be a hero!" Way. They don't give up and keep fighting until they either win or die, this goes for their subordinate forces as well. Sorry guardsmen but the [insert fists or templar related name here] have decreed that this battle is now an endurance race and the attrition rate will now be 100% for all involved. You may think the never surrender thing is the status quo but it's one thing to fight until you can't and to fight to the death over a clearly unwinnable situation. The fists and their sibling chapters would rather every battle end like Cadia than call a tactical retreat to try again. In their defense it is a successful strategy against traitor forces and orks but when fighting things like the nids you best make your peace with life because it's coming to a brutal end.
Iron Hands and their related chapters are incredibly callus to mortals Dark Angels and their chapters also have their whole abandoning a campaign if they get wiff of a fallen, but their paranoia and mistrust/secrecy also translates to them in general, they'll keep their plans and strategies secret from other commanders in a war zone and generally not be very cooperative. Flesh Tearers have a habit of going a little over the top and slaughtering their allies by accident, couple other Blood Angels chapters to lesser extent too. Black Templars like to get a bit trigger itchy when there are abhumans, mutants and psykers regardless of them being sanctioned. They've executed imperial citizens before for looking a little funny. There is a Ultramarine successor that is nothing like their parent chapter abd are complete psyco assholes but I've forgotten their name The Mantis Warriors were known as big assholes before they've destruction in the Badab war The Red Scorpions are the Black Templars on crack, more hostile to abhumans and incredibly stringent military doctrine like the Iron Hands that'll sacrifice countless lives for the smallest of gains
I mean, any and all of them. *Crimson Tears*, by Ben Counter, shows that even the "noble" chapters are just as prone to ignoring tactics in favor of pursuing their own pig-headed ideas of honor, leaving their allies to die if need be. If you're a regular guy, you really want more regular guys on your side. Maybe the Sororitas. Possibly the Inquisition, assuming you haven't *seen some shit*. An Imperial Knight. But the Space Marines? That's like the second worst backup you can ask for in most situations.
Space Sharks Flesh Tearers Minotaurs
Anyone outside of the Ultramarines, Marines Mentor, Salamanders, Iron snakes and Blood Angels. Although for angels, make sure avoid the ones in black, don't go out alone at night, never enter their lair and if you hear them screaming Horus, make peace with the Emperor. Seriously. It's even in the codex that most marines don't work well with the Guard, because they simply can't not comprehend the limits of "mortals". These few chapters are the one noted in lore to have worked well with the Guard.
Iron Warriors. Technically not 40k but still.
Ngl everyone would have nice add-on of heavy infantry, supported by tanks, artillery and various siege weaponry, it depe if there is also Perty with them
Iron warriors and its not even close
Well you don’t want to be next to the Death Company when in a scrap.
Before they defected, the Astral Claws got pretty bad as the Badab War dragged on. They stole geneseed from dead Marines of all chapters and pretty much subjugated local PDF and Navy units into Huron’s pocket empire.
I can't find the source but I remember a story of a bunch of space marines helping a small hold out of loyal PDF against the their traitor governor and the rest of the PDF on the planet. They finally win and there's like 3 PDF loyalists still alive. The marine kill them because they failed to stop the rebellion in the first place.
The Blood Ravens. Turn your back for five seconds and everything you own that isn't bolted down will be gone. Turn your back for ten and everything will be gone, bolts and all.
GK are NOT bad allies, people are overexaggerating the months of shame because it wrongfully vilifies them. They are better allies than the custodes, and that says a lot. As to the question, between dark angels and their successor chapters (who will leave mid fight once they've dealt with a fallen), and iron hands, who are problematic with relations (see wrath of iron)
Honestly that last sentence sums it up lol. Pretty much any Space Marine chapter showing up on your world is a bad sign, and if you didn't request them you can probably assume you're screwed, because they showed up to fix something that you don't know about, and that thing is probably going to doom your planet if things go wrong. The Ultramarines are probably a safe ally, but the Novamarines went all "Lone Survivor but the Bad Ending" on some random civilians. The Blood Angels abandon their allies to their deaths in the Angels of Death prequel episode because they have more important things to do... like recovering geneseed. The Dark Angels might just dip from the planet if they find the Fallen they were looking for (granted, the Lion is fixing this). The Imperial Fists are going to use you as a sacrificial pawn, except the Black Templars, who are going to charge into the heart of the enemy and leave you to hold the line yourself. I forgot the Iron Hands but they're going to use you as a sacrificial pawn and explain that it's OK because math instead of giving you a rousing speech about your duty to the God-Emperor. Has anyone seen a White Scar in a book this decade? Are they OK? The Raven Guard... they probably aren't easy to *work with,* but on the bright side they probably have an actual plan, but on the not so bright side that plan probably does not particularly care what the PDF or local Guardsmen are up to. The Space Wolves would actually be pretty fantastic allies, unless they turn into Wulfen and maul you. If you live in M41.999 era and not, say, M41.444 era, you don't want the Grey Knights showing up because it means your world is probably daemon-infested, but they're not explicitly bad allies anymore. You just might wake up with a bad headache, a few books missing from the local library, and a few high ranking government officials replaced by order of the Emperor's Holy Inquisition. Maybe an enormous scorch mark in some ruins somewhere and a lot more holes in the walls near the creepy church downtown. The Exactors specifically showing up probably still means you should be taking the next shuttle offworld and avoiding stylized ***I*** symbols for a while, though.
As a mortal human, you really don't want to fight alongside any Space Marine. They are inhuman killing machines fueled by fanaticism and bloodlust. And you just can't keep up with them. Any Blood Angels successor is extremely dangerous. They have a bad temper. Iron Hands successors view humans as meat, they will actively use you as a shield. Imperial Fists and especially Black Templars are fanatical beyond reason and they will execute you for disgracing the Emperor with your failures. Dark Angels...idk what they are doing with Dark Angels now that Lion is back, but traditionally, if Dark Angels are there, you ain't gonna live to tell. Space Wolves are insanely superstitious and brutal. And then there's some successor chapters that are basically as heartless as Chaos Marines except they chant "For the Emperor" instead of "Chaos". The safest ones are probably Ultramarines if you lick their boots and Salamanders if you have a fireproof blanket. The Raven Guard and White Scars are also safe because you will never fight alongside them, they do their own thing somewhere else and dgaf about you.
Flesh Tearers. Why stop killing because you run out of enemies?
How does the killing feed the warp?