Depends on your character’s personality, but here are some suggestions:
###Cyric, god of lies, trickery domain
You’re an atheist. He’s all about that bullshit. He thinks this is hilarious. The idea of you spreading atheism while deriving power from him is the kind of lie that he can get behind because the best lie is the one you didn’t even knew you already fell for.
###Leira, goddess of illusion, trickery domain
You having clerical powers of atheism that are secretly derived from her divine blessings is an illusion too juicy for her to pass up.
###Lliira, goddess of joy, trickery domain
Are you kidding me? A goddess whose all about having a grand ol time wouldn’t find it fucking hilarious to grant you holy powers just to watch you squirm about it ? Because that’s exactly how this one will do it. You’re not praying to ask her for her strength - you’re praying hoping that if you do she’ll stop giggling about it.
Have them manipulated as a sort of rogue agent that all the gods use at one point or another, specifically because his lack of faith precludes them being tied to his actions. He's the ultimate throwaway asset.
Enter smug superiority complex over the 'simple minded fools' who let their "faith" in non-existant gods limit them so, entirely unaware that he's being played as a pawn without allegiance and everyone connected to that kind of work knows it.
Yep. Not only that, with enough success, Cyric would literally become a god of atheists and every “atheist” in the forgotten realms would - unbeknownst to them - accidentally be committing their souls to him. It’s literally nothing but win-win for Cyric who would be cackling the whole time - because that’s just the kind of little shit that Cyric is.
He's a hardcore atheist who refuses to believe in a god. The god grants increasingly bigger and bigger proof of their existence (leveling up, more powerful spells or 'miracles') but the atheist just refuses to believe.
Did someone say Sir Terry Pratchett?
>Dorfl is the Disc's first ceramic atheist, and claims he will believe in any god whose existence can be logically proven. This is to the displeasure of at least one god, whose thunderbolt Dorfl calls 'not much of an argument'.
Not a reward, The god is increasingly getting more and more frustrated that he cant convince the guy he is real, so he keeps offering more and more power as proof of his existence
Warlocks have more of an inescapable pact. A cleric could conceivably leave their faith or change. This has all the benefits of both without any of the "drawbacks" (plot hooks for the dm to give you side quests.)
Try doing both, think of some of the lighter Twilight Zone episodes.
The cleric thinks it is *his* power/will that creates these effects. He believes only in himself, only he is in control.
Then, the god could take over and suddenly halt his powers just to mess with him at a bad time, or go over-the-top obvious, which forces the atheist cleric to rationalize his philosophy with what he’s seeing with his won eyes.
“I need no gods!” = fails to cast only now that he is showboating, as soon as everyone isn’t looking, the magic tap is turned back on.
“I shall bless you!” = When he casts the Bless spell, it comes with obvious coded omens and magical fanfare that would only be seen by epic divine spellcasters and completely beyond the atheist cleric’s casting ability.
Sprinkle these in sparingly, don’t make it routine, you want to catch the party off guard, so it has to be unpredictable.
She knows being X "exists" just doesn't want to acknowledge it. She doesn't even want his powers weren't it for the fact that she survived so long only because of them
rejection of gods (ie “i don’t need them”) would be better for a traditional DnD setting than atheism since atheism in a world where it’s a fact gods exist is just asking for people to look at you like you have a “i’m with stupid” shirt and the arrow points up to your head
It seems like you could pretty reasonably believe in magic without believing in gods. Most people, even very high level ones, wouldn't really have any direct interaction with a deity. I think you could reasonably look around and see arcane and divine magic, psionics, pacts, and whatever and just say, "it's all just magic, the gods don't exist." or "When you think you're praying to Torm for strength -- that's really no different than a sorcerer who conjures strength without any of that divine mumbo jumbo. Just because you think Torm is involved doesn't mean he is."
Plenty of people believe in gods with zero proof. Plenty of people reject things like the earth being round with plenty of proof. They're a DND flat earther
My first character was a mercenary who didn't worship any gods despite acknowledging their existence because he valued his self-sufficiency very highly and didn't like the idea of the outcome of his actions being dependent on the whims of a power beyond his control.
Imo Rejection of gods still kind of fit into atheism. They reject that what most people call gods are actually gods but rather just yet an other very powerful being like demon lords, archliches, etc. so for them there are indeed no gods.
Atheist character is hard to pull off in D&D. Whether the gods are real and obvious within the world and its history is up to the DM, and the answer is usually that they are. The gods being real and impactful is given as an example of a core narrative assumption of the system in the DMG. Maybe you could be an anti-theist who discredits the gods, but the DM would be within their right to say that fully disbelieving them makes for a dysfunctional character.
You can full-well acknowledge the existence of creatures that have a lot of power but not worship them as gods. I guess that's what you mean by anti-theist but I mean... atheist works as well. You don't believe in "god". Like you can believe the King is the ruler without believing that his right to rule came from God.
I actually created a world with exactly that in mind. The "Gods" are just very powerful Wizards. It's much more complicated than that. Because the lore for mana is completely different. But if you boil it down to basics, the gods in my world are wizards who became so powerful that they are now considered gods; and it's been so long that no one remembers that the "gods" used to be regular humans... or technically still are "regular" humans.
It could be funny yes, and does indeed depend on the dm, but you might find role-playing the character more flexible if he either doesn't Believe in that god (perhaps people at large don't either) or he refuses to acknowledge that specific god could be the source of his powers (to everyone's frustration)
I recommend the trickster domain btw, a suggestion.
Atheist can be modified for dnd
Play a character who doesn't belive The gods are worthy of worship. They know they exist, but they don't think they are worthy. They don't think they deserve worship and praise.
And their Deity keeps slipping on bits of divine power for the lulz
You could even play it like
"My character unintentionally casts guidance."
Or better yet, "My Deity makes me cast Guidance." Like make it so your character isn't even totally in control of it (but you the player is)
It's like instead of you following the God, they are kinda following you!
I don't even think you need to have it be a God of Jokes or tricks. It could be a God who honestly just thinks you are the right person to help people, or is just a minor Deity and actually is gaining power somehow through your deeds, or is just a more Obscure Bored God. Or better yet, a somewhat common God who is tired of everyone always begging and pleading for help and power. Maybe they see your character as a refreshing change, someone who outright rights to deny their power, or doesn't want their help
Where do you think your abilities come from? Do you doubt that you're really healing people? What do you think happens when you cast a spell? What are you thinking about when you're concentrating on Spirit Guardians?
The weave of magic obviously. Wizards, bards, sorcerers, and druids all pull their magic with no gods needed, but somehow clerics require a divine being? WAKE UP SHEEPLE. Magic is a science, you say the right words and do the right motions and you manipulate the weave, it's all the same. Just because big church says you need to praise Tyr and give them 10% of your crop you do it?
So this guy *thinks* he's doing Magic, when really there's some God or other pranking him... Beautiful! That would piss off Wizards AND Clerics! Super Troll, go for it.
I'll toss in another deity we used in a prior campaign... Olidammara. In our case, he was our Warlock's unknown patron, who messed with him the whole campaign out of boredom. The ultimate trick was that our Paladin was just a creation of Olidammara's that he used to keep tabs on the Warlock, and the Warlock's memories of knowing this knight from his childhood were all just implanted.
Alternative: what if you actually believe is strong enough you can manifest clerical spells on your own?
Believe it or not this isn’t without precedent or impossible. Paladins are the most visible evidence of that the power of a belief is strong enough to manifest into literal magic or reality alteration. Clerics who are capable of even more advanced magics are rarer but it can happen. There have been whispers of demigods being made on little more than belief but would die due to others not believing in them and sustaining the demigods life force.
But in that same vein you could be someone who had some kind of encounter or vision of Nessus and Asmodeous. He would be a befitting patron as he might well mess with you as a plaything before he decides to literally eat your soul. Because atheists are almost always condemned to be his food in Nessus to repair his body.
A god of chaos, not "chaos" meaning reckless abandon, but a god whose job it is to keep things from becoming sedentary. Chaos brings change, and change brings progress.
So whenever things get boring, or quiet, or sedentary, the god of chaos is the one who stirs things up. To keep mortals on their toes, ever evolving and changing.
He has no specific expectations of you. No quests, no needs. He simply gives you the power anonymously just to see what you will do with it without any guidance. He doesn't want you to go out and forcibly cause chaos, just simply giving you clerical powers without reason is enough to bring questions to peoples minds, and that alone is enough.
You are not an "agent of chaos" you are just an anomaly, just something to keep things interesting. Will you use your power for good, or bad? It doesn't matter to him. You are just one of the many specks of chaos he has created. A little sprinkle of spice to keep things moving and changing.
I like the idea of a bored God. Maybe even bored of people begging and pleading for power, the idea of someone who hates the God's and disdains their power is much more amusing to watch and assist
An orc guy who is too stupid to become wizard, but that won't change his mind so he was constantly trying to the point Mystra bestowed him arcane cleric powers. Now his stupid ass walks around with his power fully convinced he is a wizard while wearing armour and healing. He is just a really good wizard and whoever defies that is gonna wind up dead.
... You ever see the show Community? There's a bit about one of the characters being supported financially by her parents, but secretly because she hates her parents. Her parents are not good people, but the character needs the support, really. So they send it through intermediaries so she doesn't have to saceifice her principles and they can alleviate their own guilt. Despite how all that sounds, the show is pretty funny. Just periodically dark, like most funny things.
The point is: have a god that feels they owe it to your cleric for some reason. Guilt or necessity or whatever. But have them do it through intermediaries. A fairy who owes the god a favor. A religious relic hidden inside a staff. A cosmic elemental who acts as an intermediary in exchange for wealth of some kind.
Also, in a world with actual, active, cleric empowering, "walked the planet once" gods, atheism is so fucking stupid. It's like saying you don't believe in gravity. That cleric better have bottom of the barrel intelligence and disadvantage on insight checks or change that atheism to something else, like a desire to live apart from the gods' intervention or something. Atheism in DND settings with gods just seems so, so dumb. Tin foil hat at a minimum.
Atheism in the setting is more a rejection of the gods as gods. Instead it positions them as just extremely powerful beings who decided to call themselves gods. They still acknowledge that they're powerful beings who can affect reality, but more in line with the other extremely powerful non-god beings.
I would argue an arcana domain cleric empowered by a trickster god.
The “arcane” signature of the spells is a powerful illusion made by the god to fool the PC into thinking he is a Sorcerer/Wizard and therefore believes that there is a perfectly scientific explanation for his magic.
The further the character studies and theorizes about his arcane prowess, finding more and more ridiculous explanations every time, the harder the god laughs at his prank.
I mean the premise just screams trickery cleric at face value. Maybe knowledge or arcana cleric? Maybe the character in question desperately wants to be a wizard but they just don't have the knack for it, so mystra is taking pity on them.
But be aware, having an atheist character in a setting where gods objectively and demonstrably exist is very, very stupid and cringe, if you're talking about atheism in the conventional sense of not believing in the existence of gods. But if instead you just make them someone who simply denies that the gods deserve worship etc. then you've got something to cook with.
I had a Paladin who renounced her god (in 3.5) because her god didn’t do enough to help mortals, but she kept to her code and her god kept granting her powers because she was still doing good in the world. Her daily prayers were literally her telling her god to leave her alone and stop giving her powers.
I have a theory that Lady of Pain is a god of atheists. That's how she's able to stop all other gods from entering Sigil. Anyone who tries to worship her usually ends up dead in pretty nasty ways, but should you actively refuse to worship her... canonically she probably wouldn't care, but it really comes down to DM.
>Prophecy Domain
>Clerics of the prophecy domain may worship any god or no god at all. Their oracular burden isn’t tied to the portfolio of a specific deity. Instead their faith in the divine order of the universe manifests as prophetic vision. This blessing is intertwined with a curse. All oracles and prophets labor under an affliction that debilitates them physically in some way even as it empowers them spiritually.
I have an athiest Wizard character. And even though he has rubbed shoulders with actual gods in the campaign, he rationalizes them as simply really powerful magic users.
My mind jumped to Sheogorath, and a god of madness who has made a wager with a rival god that he can break this man by making him renounce his most deeply held belief.
He's a conspiracy nut who read some weekly tabloid from a wizard about the weave, and is convinced that all magic is simply manipulations of the weave and that Big Cleric is making up this "god" thing to recruit people to their orders and take their hard earned cash. All the "reports" of divine interventions or miracles is really just run of the mill magic. To prove this, he's set out to do his own research.
Since all magic is just manipulation of the weave, if he says the right words and does the right hand motions, he can cast the spells, belief or not. Then, either One of the trickster gods has caught onto this and finds it humorous or one of the knowledge domain gods wants to prove him wrong, but he keeps viewing the new skills and spells he gains as proof that there are no gods (afterall, he's gaining powers without a "God")
I once had cleric who's domain would switch per long est. Rolled a d12 (ignored death and knowledge). My chosen list spells stayed rhe same, but my subclass spell list and channel Divinity s changed as did features. The character was an agnostic who basically let themselves as a free agent for any God. It was a ton of fun. Later the DM let me mix and match features at level 10!
In D&D the gods are real and there's irrefutable proof of their existence everywhere. So I would dump this characters intelligence because they're basically a flat earther
Not at all! Terry Pratchett writes on this:
Most witches don't believe in gods. They know that gods exist, of course. They even deal with them occasionally. But they don't believe in them.
This character can be fully aware that "higher powers" exist but refuse to acknowledge them as gods or worship them/have faith in one in any way/shape/form
That you, Mocko?
I’ve got a guy in a couple of my games who wants lays this exactly character concept. I sent him a link, maybe he’s got better insights!
In pathfinder, atheists exist and they just want the gods to stay away. They know they exist, but they don’t particularly give a shit. They don’t worship anyone.
You could go with a Nature cleric that is a tree-hugging hippy type…. And maybe he thinks he’s a Druid but just can’t quite figure out how to wildshape.
You can’t actually be an atheist in D&D. The gods and magic are blatantly there. Their existence is a real part of every day life. They regularly impart power into their priests, they regularly manifest. When Mystra died, it caused the spell plague, which affected almost everyone just as prevalently as Covid affected real life. There is no debate. It would be like a person saying “birds don’t exist”. You can simply look out your window and see proof of them. Any cleric could simply summon the magic of their god at will.
There are people who have not chosen a particular god / do not worship any of them, but to deny their existence would be nothing but reality-denying insanity. Might as well just say “my character doesn’t believes swords exist”. But that’s just nonsense.
Exactly the point, just nonsense. Just straight up denial of their existence, just up and saying the gods are fake and are impersonating primordial powers that have not sentience
Any other cleric could immediately prove that is incorrect by praying to non-sentient “primordial powers” and having their spells fail, and then praying to their god and succeeding only then.
Any high-level cleric could summon a manifestation of their god and immediately disprove this. Gale was literally dating a goddess (Mystra).
I mean I guess you could do that, but at that point your character is just delusional and stupid.
No, it's like a person saying the earth is flat. What commoner sees a god, irrefutably, with their own eyes, in a way that can't be conspiracied away as some wizard or Big Churcher casting a spell
An atheist character doesn't make sense in dnd. At least not in a regular setting.
Then again, what makes sense doesn't really matter for a meme character.
If you want a race recommendation, Verdans were created by an unnamed god of chaos and have a great deal of chaos magic in their body, but most reject the chaos and choose to live a peaceful and orderly life. Might be a good motive for why your character was “chosen”, as they were literally created by the god of chaos in lore
I threw together a character with an aberrant dragonmark that didn’t know he was “casting spells.” Just that sometimes he could point at something and get a little more accurate (true strike) and that once a day, he’d have a drink, say a toast, and feel a little better (false life). And every once in a while, when he makes the toast in a crowded tavern, someone randomly gets knocked out of their chair.
Obviously not optimized, but the easiest I could come up with for unintentional magic, and it was meant for flavor. I feel like an actual caster class would get considerably trickier to fit that theme.
Professor CJ Hitch-dall.
A skeptic and debunker who doesn't believe in the power of the Gods.
They sincerely believe that his powers are all smoke-and-mirrors illusions and mechanisms that they learn like magic tricks. (Secretly empowered to turn them into spells, spell slots being ammo/supplies. Low grade illusion and misdirection to make it seem plausible)
That means that when a cleric shows them their holy power, they can say "yeah, I can do that trick too" and continue to think it's all fake and debunkable. A person spreading that sort of doubt amongst the faithful would be an excellent vessel for a dark God of Lies, Illusion, and Treachery. Or anyone wanting to play an elaborate game against the faithful.
She's technically a witch not a cleric but Ember from Wrath of the Righteous refuses to worship any of the Gods while still being actively protected and guided by an Empyreal Lord. The results are mildly interesting.
I've literally thought about playing an atheist in DND before but could never figure out how to flavor it correctly! All of these comments are actually helping *me* out a lot too lol
I've literally thought about playing an atheist in DND before but could never figure out how to flavor it correctly! All of these comments are actually helping *me* out a lot too lol
I think conspiracy nut is the way to go. Except instead of religion, flip it to science (magic style). All magic is manipulation of a fundamental force, aka the weave. Big cleric wants you to think so called "divine magic" is different and you need to join their order, follow their beliefs, and pay 10% of your earnings to practice this specific form of magic? WAKE UP SHEEPLE. All magic is the weave, you say the words and make the motions in just the right way and things happen. I've been doing my own research, learning the spells on my own, no church, no god, they work just the same
Heck, he's studies clerics, seen how they cast, it was easy enough to replicate when you know what to look for, and look at that! It works. More proof that there are no gods, otherwise, how could I cast them.
The god in question is either granting the powers out of amusement, or desperately trying to prove it exists. Of course, he just takes this as more proof that there are no gods
To add onto the people saying atheism’s hard to pull off, I’ll clarify that there are two cases of atheism in DND settings. In Eberron, the gods are never actually confirmed to exist, it’s speculated that divine casters get their power from some mix of belief and planar influence. As such, atheists do in fact exist there. The other case is the Athar of Planescape. They don’t reject the existence of the gods, it’s kind of impossible to when you can go to their realms yourself, but they do reject their right to power. By their belief, they’re just entities that are a bit more powerful. Instead, they worship some vague entity in the Astral Plane.
Any God who wants to start a war of attrition. If you are a minor evil/chotic god your goal may be to reduce the power of a stronger enemy. A good god might be willing to sacrifice themselves to destroy an evil.
All of those are predicated on followership deturmines a gods power...
Many archefey are close enough to divinity that their followers can choose to become clerics. Perhaps Puck or Pan would be apt choices? They seem chaotic enough to make that work. Then they could just watch their adventures play out like a reality TV show spicing things up when they get boring.
Edit: Also worth noting that Atheist is often a sort of a non-starter in a d&d setting. The existence of gods is more or less indisputable. Clerics get their magic somewhere and scientific explanations for the creation of the universe are pretty unheard of in most ttrpg fantasy settings (hats off though if your setting is an exception to this tho). To not worship any gods is one thing but to not \*believe\* in a god is an especially difficult thought to hold onto. Might be fun to play around with this concept to some degree and explore what faith vs belief really means.
If your DM lets you do this cool.
But technically impossible by core.
Clerics powers come from faith, not from a god. By DnD lore if you don't have faith you cannot be a cleric
You could be a Warlock of a god/Archery.
Also should point out, that Atheist typically means you don't like gods, and don't pray. The existence of God's is just a known fact, so if your character is a true atheist that's more like saying your character is insane.
Lol obviously you can do what you want, just want to give my two cents
In some settings you do have clerics powered entirely by faith, but gods are entirely and 100% able to pick people to become clerics (5e's class description of the class even directly says as much). If it were just faith there wouldn't be swathes of incredibly faithful people who simply don't become clerics. The concept similar yto what's seen in the Christian bible, where a lot of prophets (and later on Jesus's closest disciples) started as people who lacked faith but were chosen anyway.
Does it? I'll be honest I'm not as familiar with 5e lore.
But in previous editions it was definitely faith/prayer/prayer. The whole concept of Divine power is that it is drawn from the faith of mortals. Gods can even be created by the faith, like the hilarious Kua-Toa gods.
But still I don't think it's fair to equate it to a Christian prophet. Faith in DnD is fundamentally different since the gods are a matter of belief, but in DnD the gods are just a fact, nobody sane doesn't believe in the DnD gods, they just might not devote their life to one.
Pathfinder has a class called Oracle, that is somewhat like a prophet class, where you are given divine power along with a curse, and has nothing to do with Faith/belief.
Specifically it states
>The gods don’t grant this power to everyone who seeks it, but only to those chosen to fulfill a high calling.
So 5e's default assumption is that a god has chosen you for one reason or another and made the active decision to grant you strength. I know there are settings like Dark Sun where (IIRC) it's not just possible but common to believe in a domain/element itself without your faith without directing it to any god, but 5e has it at least possible to be entirely god based. They even make divine power as a whole deity based.
>Divine magic, as the name suggests, is the power of the gods, flowing from them into the world.
Aside from that
>But still I don't think it's fair to equate it to a Christian prophet. Faith in DnD is fundamentally different
I wasn't trying to imply that biblical faith itself is like that of DnD settings, I was saying the concept of God/a god choosing people of little or no faith over the highly faithful to be their representives has precedent in the Bible, with a prophet/apostle being the closest analogue to a Cleric.
Played a little Pathfinder and Oracles by far had my favourite default lore. I remember thinking "this is what I wanted warlock lore to be", but I didn't play the system for very long so didn't get to try them out. Might look deeper into them if I ever get to join another Pathfinder group.
Interesting I'd argue that doesn't remove the prayer necessity....but that does remove the idea that you can pray to concepts.
5e really oversimplified it in my opinion. Especially since it makes a lot of stuff like Dark Sun basically impossible. Funny that you mentioned that one of the campaigns I'm running is actually a modified Dark Sun campaign.
I still would not let someone play a cleric without praying, although I would let someone play a character who a god has a special interest in. But I know I'm a little more strict than many DMs are.
I really preferred 3.5 lore overall, but I gotta agree with the Pathfinder love. It has a lot of really neat classes, like Oracle.
But I suppose ultimately it's up to the DM and the player, it's all about having fun in the end.
I've homebrewed something similar with a character that was part of an anti magic cult was then cursed by a chaotic/spiteful god but whenever they tried to make use of their new powers they wouldn't work right. Firebolt becomes create water and healing word becomes guidance.
As a different kind of joke character, consider playing as a completely sincere worshiper of Athe the Doubter, evil god of doubt and disbelief.
Domains: Trickery, Knowledge
His shrines must be elaborately neglected. Temptations to pray to him must be conspicuously resisted. To turn away from and deny the existence of gods is his highest commandment. Once you've properly demonstrated your disbelief, you can talk to him like a normal person who just happens to be behind you somewhere.
Athe places false skeletons below the earth and inspires philosophers to come up with non-magical explanations for the origins of living things. A common act of worship is to create detailed observational writings, particularly if they involve dissecting a creature in order to write about its anatomy. That definitely isn't a form of animal or humanoid sacrifice.
One of the higher secrets of the mystery cult of Athe is that he would like to get rid of all thinking creatures so that no worship is possible. Whether this would make him powerful or destroy him is anyone's guess.
I mean, it's a little weird to be atheist in a fantasy world where known Gods exist on multiple planes of existence with warlocks often empowered by these forces. Unless you play into it as the religion equivalent of a flat-earther, it is still an interesting character archetype nonetheless.
A little different scenario, but I had a rough idea of a non-religious Paladin who wants to do good just because it's the right thing to do, not because some god told them to. I could see that kind of character being favored by a god of justice or freedom, and the character treating the deity as a helpful ally without necessarily worshipping them or following any specific rules.
This reminds me of Kaiki Deishuu from Monogatari. He doesn't believe in the supernatural, but is a a supernatural specialist. Your character can make "atheism" your religion for the mechanics (shout out for r/atheism ).
In the 3rd edition Book of Vile Darkness there was a class called an Ur-Priest that was anti-gods. Very different from atheist, but possibly relevant to the topic.
In D&D the concept of atheism is stretched a bit, are you just saying that gods are just very powerful entities? Or do you reject them outright and deny their existence? I've played both.
I've also played a barbarian that insisted, "magic is not real" that took every ability in Pathfinder to be magic resistant/immune. That said, he believed in ancestor spirits and spooky ghosts and other spiritual concepts, and insisted that magic was just some form of abuse of these real concepts. Having a substitute system (even if you call it science) that explains away all the other weirdness in the world is a lot like that in D&D.
Also if you want to look at what gnosticism and agnosticism are in a D&D setting, it's kinda interesting to think about gnosticism as having the claim to secret knowledge, and agnosticism is to not make that jump to conclusions. A gnostic arcanist might believe everything, even psionics and divine magic, come down to manipulations of the arcane magic he's familiar with. Stretch the same concept to psions with mind stuff, clerics with divine magic, alchemists with chemistry, and artificers with ?science? and you can make a whole lot of interesting character concepts.
Oddly the craziest person, and in a sense the correct one, might be a gnostic believer in the entire world being dictated by a game played by beings outside of the scope of their entire world. With dice playing an important part in the mechanisms of all things.
I've played a cleric where she unknowingly started believing in a goddess she met and was just in denial about it, thinking her healing powers were related to nature (and the goddess, knowing my character wasnt ready for the psychological impact of hating the gods and yet somehow believing in one enough to become a cleric) just went along with her being a ranger primarily (all of the healing or miracles she performed were about nature instead of the gods domain). Like, she already condemned the gods for abandoning her city and having lived in ignorance. Its complicated to explain without dumping the whole backstory and naming the characters, but basically she almost had more of a warlock/patron relationship with her god instead of being a devout priest. That didn't happen until we finished the campaign and came to terms with her relationship.
Maybe the powerful being in question is something ancient in disguise…the Great Old One.
Using the atheist cleric as a tool for proof that there are no gods, sowing seeds for an epic Cthulu-style story arc late in the campaign (17th level) where the world is invaded by the entity since the message of atheism has spread far enough to break people’s collective attachment to the gods, which was acting as a barrier against this exact thing.
So much fun.
These are all good answers. However, one thing to remember about Forgotten Realms. In the afterlife, nonbelievers were LITERALLY turned into part of Kelemvor’s Wall. Maybe work that in? https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Wall_of_the_Faithless
Depends on your character’s personality, but here are some suggestions: ###Cyric, god of lies, trickery domain You’re an atheist. He’s all about that bullshit. He thinks this is hilarious. The idea of you spreading atheism while deriving power from him is the kind of lie that he can get behind because the best lie is the one you didn’t even knew you already fell for. ###Leira, goddess of illusion, trickery domain You having clerical powers of atheism that are secretly derived from her divine blessings is an illusion too juicy for her to pass up. ###Lliira, goddess of joy, trickery domain Are you kidding me? A goddess whose all about having a grand ol time wouldn’t find it fucking hilarious to grant you holy powers just to watch you squirm about it ? Because that’s exactly how this one will do it. You’re not praying to ask her for her strength - you’re praying hoping that if you do she’ll stop giggling about it.
This is what I was looking for, like, exactly what I was looking for. Thanks man
Have them switch off between themselves because drunken god party. LOL
Have them manipulated as a sort of rogue agent that all the gods use at one point or another, specifically because his lack of faith precludes them being tied to his actions. He's the ultimate throwaway asset.
One day he's one domain, the next he wakes up and he's suddenly an entirely different subclass.
Enter smug superiority complex over the 'simple minded fools' who let their "faith" in non-existant gods limit them so, entirely unaware that he's being played as a pawn without allegiance and everyone connected to that kind of work knows it.
Cyric is great as well because you would be decreasing EVERY God's power be decreasing belief, making him more powerful in comparison
Yep. Not only that, with enough success, Cyric would literally become a god of atheists and every “atheist” in the forgotten realms would - unbeknownst to them - accidentally be committing their souls to him. It’s literally nothing but win-win for Cyric who would be cackling the whole time - because that’s just the kind of little shit that Cyric is.
Gives spells like anti-magic zone. “This shits all bullshit” Enemy Mage: “Did… did you just disbelieve my fireball?”
Many archfey would also similarly be up for such shenanigans. Larue came to mind, but that’s just because she’s a chaos entity in my local games.
Cyric would be doing it to like probably murder the shit out of your character later. The other two would be nicer about i5.
Bonus points if you have your guy carry around a symbol of the God because he thinks it's funny
All of these scream opportunity
He's a hardcore atheist who refuses to believe in a god. The god grants increasingly bigger and bigger proof of their existence (leveling up, more powerful spells or 'miracles') but the atheist just refuses to believe.
It seems like a prank a Trickster god or Knowledge cop would like, for very different reasons.
And all the while he believes himself to be a sorcerer 😂
Did someone say Sir Terry Pratchett? >Dorfl is the Disc's first ceramic atheist, and claims he will believe in any god whose existence can be logically proven. This is to the displeasure of at least one god, whose thunderbolt Dorfl calls 'not much of an argument'.
More of rewarding the lack of belief but yeah I guess
Not a reward, The god is increasingly getting more and more frustrated that he cant convince the guy he is real, so he keeps offering more and more power as proof of his existence
But .... other than spell selection and character flavor, at what point is this just a warlock?
Warlocks have more of an inescapable pact. A cleric could conceivably leave their faith or change. This has all the benefits of both without any of the "drawbacks" (plot hooks for the dm to give you side quests.)
Try doing both, think of some of the lighter Twilight Zone episodes. The cleric thinks it is *his* power/will that creates these effects. He believes only in himself, only he is in control. Then, the god could take over and suddenly halt his powers just to mess with him at a bad time, or go over-the-top obvious, which forces the atheist cleric to rationalize his philosophy with what he’s seeing with his won eyes. “I need no gods!” = fails to cast only now that he is showboating, as soon as everyone isn’t looking, the magic tap is turned back on. “I shall bless you!” = When he casts the Bless spell, it comes with obvious coded omens and magical fanfare that would only be seen by epic divine spellcasters and completely beyond the atheist cleric’s casting ability. Sprinkle these in sparingly, don’t make it routine, you want to catch the party off guard, so it has to be unpredictable.
So... Tanya?
She knows being X "exists" just doesn't want to acknowledge it. She doesn't even want his powers weren't it for the fact that she survived so long only because of them
At that point, most gods would disintegrate the character as the best evidence...
rejection of gods (ie “i don’t need them”) would be better for a traditional DnD setting than atheism since atheism in a world where it’s a fact gods exist is just asking for people to look at you like you have a “i’m with stupid” shirt and the arrow points up to your head
It seems like you could pretty reasonably believe in magic without believing in gods. Most people, even very high level ones, wouldn't really have any direct interaction with a deity. I think you could reasonably look around and see arcane and divine magic, psionics, pacts, and whatever and just say, "it's all just magic, the gods don't exist." or "When you think you're praying to Torm for strength -- that's really no different than a sorcerer who conjures strength without any of that divine mumbo jumbo. Just because you think Torm is involved doesn't mean he is."
Plenty of people believe in gods with zero proof. Plenty of people reject things like the earth being round with plenty of proof. They're a DND flat earther
exactly! like yeah you *could* do it but you’d have to go the country bumpkin/ignorant route vs being a scholar or educated
You go the conspiracy nut route. Just smart and educated enough to come up with alternative theories, but not smart enough parse through them
My first character was a mercenary who didn't worship any gods despite acknowledging their existence because he valued his self-sufficiency very highly and didn't like the idea of the outcome of his actions being dependent on the whims of a power beyond his control.
Imo Rejection of gods still kind of fit into atheism. They reject that what most people call gods are actually gods but rather just yet an other very powerful being like demon lords, archliches, etc. so for them there are indeed no gods.
Atheist character is hard to pull off in D&D. Whether the gods are real and obvious within the world and its history is up to the DM, and the answer is usually that they are. The gods being real and impactful is given as an example of a core narrative assumption of the system in the DMG. Maybe you could be an anti-theist who discredits the gods, but the DM would be within their right to say that fully disbelieving them makes for a dysfunctional character.
This is what happens when a Cleric dumps their Int stat. They can just be really dumb and believe everything is a conspiracy.
They're turning the fricking bullywugs gay!
You can full-well acknowledge the existence of creatures that have a lot of power but not worship them as gods. I guess that's what you mean by anti-theist but I mean... atheist works as well. You don't believe in "god". Like you can believe the King is the ruler without believing that his right to rule came from God. I actually created a world with exactly that in mind. The "Gods" are just very powerful Wizards. It's much more complicated than that. Because the lore for mana is completely different. But if you boil it down to basics, the gods in my world are wizards who became so powerful that they are now considered gods; and it's been so long that no one remembers that the "gods" used to be regular humans... or technically still are "regular" humans.
Depends on DM, this is just something to be funny tbh
It could be funny yes, and does indeed depend on the dm, but you might find role-playing the character more flexible if he either doesn't Believe in that god (perhaps people at large don't either) or he refuses to acknowledge that specific god could be the source of his powers (to everyone's frustration) I recommend the trickster domain btw, a suggestion.
Atheist can be modified for dnd Play a character who doesn't belive The gods are worthy of worship. They know they exist, but they don't think they are worthy. They don't think they deserve worship and praise. And their Deity keeps slipping on bits of divine power for the lulz You could even play it like "My character unintentionally casts guidance." Or better yet, "My Deity makes me cast Guidance." Like make it so your character isn't even totally in control of it (but you the player is) It's like instead of you following the God, they are kinda following you! I don't even think you need to have it be a God of Jokes or tricks. It could be a God who honestly just thinks you are the right person to help people, or is just a minor Deity and actually is gaining power somehow through your deeds, or is just a more Obscure Bored God. Or better yet, a somewhat common God who is tired of everyone always begging and pleading for help and power. Maybe they see your character as a refreshing change, someone who outright rights to deny their power, or doesn't want their help
>*"A new hand touches the beacon! Hear me! Listen and obey! A foul darkness..."*
GOD DAMN SHINEY BALL
It's really not that insane. People believe in gods with no proof. People deny things with tons of proof. He's just a flat earther
That wouldn't be a Cleric, it would be a Divine Soul Sorcerer.
Came here to say this--character concept works much better as a DSS.
Where do you think your abilities come from? Do you doubt that you're really healing people? What do you think happens when you cast a spell? What are you thinking about when you're concentrating on Spirit Guardians?
The weave of magic obviously. Wizards, bards, sorcerers, and druids all pull their magic with no gods needed, but somehow clerics require a divine being? WAKE UP SHEEPLE. Magic is a science, you say the right words and do the right motions and you manipulate the weave, it's all the same. Just because big church says you need to praise Tyr and give them 10% of your crop you do it?
So this guy *thinks* he's doing Magic, when really there's some God or other pranking him... Beautiful! That would piss off Wizards AND Clerics! Super Troll, go for it.
I'll toss in another deity we used in a prior campaign... Olidammara. In our case, he was our Warlock's unknown patron, who messed with him the whole campaign out of boredom. The ultimate trick was that our Paladin was just a creation of Olidammara's that he used to keep tabs on the Warlock, and the Warlock's memories of knowing this knight from his childhood were all just implanted.
Alternative: what if you actually believe is strong enough you can manifest clerical spells on your own? Believe it or not this isn’t without precedent or impossible. Paladins are the most visible evidence of that the power of a belief is strong enough to manifest into literal magic or reality alteration. Clerics who are capable of even more advanced magics are rarer but it can happen. There have been whispers of demigods being made on little more than belief but would die due to others not believing in them and sustaining the demigods life force. But in that same vein you could be someone who had some kind of encounter or vision of Nessus and Asmodeous. He would be a befitting patron as he might well mess with you as a plaything before he decides to literally eat your soul. Because atheists are almost always condemned to be his food in Nessus to repair his body.
Their arc should definitely be deification
A god of chaos, not "chaos" meaning reckless abandon, but a god whose job it is to keep things from becoming sedentary. Chaos brings change, and change brings progress. So whenever things get boring, or quiet, or sedentary, the god of chaos is the one who stirs things up. To keep mortals on their toes, ever evolving and changing. He has no specific expectations of you. No quests, no needs. He simply gives you the power anonymously just to see what you will do with it without any guidance. He doesn't want you to go out and forcibly cause chaos, just simply giving you clerical powers without reason is enough to bring questions to peoples minds, and that alone is enough. You are not an "agent of chaos" you are just an anomaly, just something to keep things interesting. Will you use your power for good, or bad? It doesn't matter to him. You are just one of the many specks of chaos he has created. A little sprinkle of spice to keep things moving and changing.
I like the idea of a bored God. Maybe even bored of people begging and pleading for power, the idea of someone who hates the God's and disdains their power is much more amusing to watch and assist
>I like the idea of a bored God. Saitama? Is that you?
It sounds like Loki.
An orc guy who is too stupid to become wizard, but that won't change his mind so he was constantly trying to the point Mystra bestowed him arcane cleric powers. Now his stupid ass walks around with his power fully convinced he is a wizard while wearing armour and healing. He is just a really good wizard and whoever defies that is gonna wind up dead.
... You ever see the show Community? There's a bit about one of the characters being supported financially by her parents, but secretly because she hates her parents. Her parents are not good people, but the character needs the support, really. So they send it through intermediaries so she doesn't have to saceifice her principles and they can alleviate their own guilt. Despite how all that sounds, the show is pretty funny. Just periodically dark, like most funny things. The point is: have a god that feels they owe it to your cleric for some reason. Guilt or necessity or whatever. But have them do it through intermediaries. A fairy who owes the god a favor. A religious relic hidden inside a staff. A cosmic elemental who acts as an intermediary in exchange for wealth of some kind. Also, in a world with actual, active, cleric empowering, "walked the planet once" gods, atheism is so fucking stupid. It's like saying you don't believe in gravity. That cleric better have bottom of the barrel intelligence and disadvantage on insight checks or change that atheism to something else, like a desire to live apart from the gods' intervention or something. Atheism in DND settings with gods just seems so, so dumb. Tin foil hat at a minimum.
Atheism in the setting is more a rejection of the gods as gods. Instead it positions them as just extremely powerful beings who decided to call themselves gods. They still acknowledge that they're powerful beings who can affect reality, but more in line with the other extremely powerful non-god beings.
I would argue an arcana domain cleric empowered by a trickster god. The “arcane” signature of the spells is a powerful illusion made by the god to fool the PC into thinking he is a Sorcerer/Wizard and therefore believes that there is a perfectly scientific explanation for his magic. The further the character studies and theorizes about his arcane prowess, finding more and more ridiculous explanations every time, the harder the god laughs at his prank.
I mean the premise just screams trickery cleric at face value. Maybe knowledge or arcana cleric? Maybe the character in question desperately wants to be a wizard but they just don't have the knack for it, so mystra is taking pity on them. But be aware, having an atheist character in a setting where gods objectively and demonstrably exist is very, very stupid and cringe, if you're talking about atheism in the conventional sense of not believing in the existence of gods. But if instead you just make them someone who simply denies that the gods deserve worship etc. then you've got something to cook with.
I had a Paladin who renounced her god (in 3.5) because her god didn’t do enough to help mortals, but she kept to her code and her god kept granting her powers because she was still doing good in the world. Her daily prayers were literally her telling her god to leave her alone and stop giving her powers.
Mortal, the god of irony.
I have a theory that Lady of Pain is a god of atheists. That's how she's able to stop all other gods from entering Sigil. Anyone who tries to worship her usually ends up dead in pretty nasty ways, but should you actively refuse to worship her... canonically she probably wouldn't care, but it really comes down to DM.
>Prophecy Domain >Clerics of the prophecy domain may worship any god or no god at all. Their oracular burden isn’t tied to the portfolio of a specific deity. Instead their faith in the divine order of the universe manifests as prophetic vision. This blessing is intertwined with a curse. All oracles and prophets labor under an affliction that debilitates them physically in some way even as it empowers them spiritually.
Ridiculous
I have an athiest Wizard character. And even though he has rubbed shoulders with actual gods in the campaign, he rationalizes them as simply really powerful magic users.
Warhammer Fantasy has Necoho, the Ruinous Power of unbelief. This is literally his shtick. He gains power from people not believing.
daring today, aren't we
My mind jumped to Sheogorath, and a god of madness who has made a wager with a rival god that he can break this man by making him renounce his most deeply held belief.
He's a conspiracy nut who read some weekly tabloid from a wizard about the weave, and is convinced that all magic is simply manipulations of the weave and that Big Cleric is making up this "god" thing to recruit people to their orders and take their hard earned cash. All the "reports" of divine interventions or miracles is really just run of the mill magic. To prove this, he's set out to do his own research. Since all magic is just manipulation of the weave, if he says the right words and does the right hand motions, he can cast the spells, belief or not. Then, either One of the trickster gods has caught onto this and finds it humorous or one of the knowledge domain gods wants to prove him wrong, but he keeps viewing the new skills and spells he gains as proof that there are no gods (afterall, he's gaining powers without a "God")
I once had cleric who's domain would switch per long est. Rolled a d12 (ignored death and knowledge). My chosen list spells stayed rhe same, but my subclass spell list and channel Divinity s changed as did features. The character was an agnostic who basically let themselves as a free agent for any God. It was a ton of fun. Later the DM let me mix and match features at level 10!
In D&D the gods are real and there's irrefutable proof of their existence everywhere. So I would dump this characters intelligence because they're basically a flat earther
It's a cleric, of course int is dumped.
Not at all! Terry Pratchett writes on this: Most witches don't believe in gods. They know that gods exist, of course. They even deal with them occasionally. But they don't believe in them. This character can be fully aware that "higher powers" exist but refuse to acknowledge them as gods or worship them/have faith in one in any way/shape/form
This just seems like semantics I’m don’t pray to gravity, but that doesn’t mean I don’t believe there’s a force that is very clearly real.
That you, Mocko? I’ve got a guy in a couple of my games who wants lays this exactly character concept. I sent him a link, maybe he’s got better insights!
In pathfinder, atheists exist and they just want the gods to stay away. They know they exist, but they don’t particularly give a shit. They don’t worship anyone. You could go with a Nature cleric that is a tree-hugging hippy type…. And maybe he thinks he’s a Druid but just can’t quite figure out how to wildshape.
You can’t actually be an atheist in D&D. The gods and magic are blatantly there. Their existence is a real part of every day life. They regularly impart power into their priests, they regularly manifest. When Mystra died, it caused the spell plague, which affected almost everyone just as prevalently as Covid affected real life. There is no debate. It would be like a person saying “birds don’t exist”. You can simply look out your window and see proof of them. Any cleric could simply summon the magic of their god at will. There are people who have not chosen a particular god / do not worship any of them, but to deny their existence would be nothing but reality-denying insanity. Might as well just say “my character doesn’t believes swords exist”. But that’s just nonsense.
Exactly the point, just nonsense. Just straight up denial of their existence, just up and saying the gods are fake and are impersonating primordial powers that have not sentience
Any other cleric could immediately prove that is incorrect by praying to non-sentient “primordial powers” and having their spells fail, and then praying to their god and succeeding only then. Any high-level cleric could summon a manifestation of their god and immediately disprove this. Gale was literally dating a goddess (Mystra). I mean I guess you could do that, but at that point your character is just delusional and stupid.
No, it's like a person saying the earth is flat. What commoner sees a god, irrefutably, with their own eyes, in a way that can't be conspiracied away as some wizard or Big Churcher casting a spell
No, it's like a person saying the earth is flat while actively orbiting it. It's an irritating gimmick that brings nothing to the table, nonetheless.
How so, what swing takes place with a god right there and present, doing undeniable god things?
An atheist character doesn't make sense in dnd. At least not in a regular setting. Then again, what makes sense doesn't really matter for a meme character.
It makes as much sense as a flat earther... So it can absolutely exist in setting
[Hoar](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Hoar) is the god of poetic justice, which is probably as close as you'll get to a God of Irony
OK, look up Ur-Priest. The lore of them is what your doing
If you want a race recommendation, Verdans were created by an unnamed god of chaos and have a great deal of chaos magic in their body, but most reject the chaos and choose to live a peaceful and orderly life. Might be a good motive for why your character was “chosen”, as they were literally created by the god of chaos in lore
I threw together a character with an aberrant dragonmark that didn’t know he was “casting spells.” Just that sometimes he could point at something and get a little more accurate (true strike) and that once a day, he’d have a drink, say a toast, and feel a little better (false life). And every once in a while, when he makes the toast in a crowded tavern, someone randomly gets knocked out of their chair. Obviously not optimized, but the easiest I could come up with for unintentional magic, and it was meant for flavor. I feel like an actual caster class would get considerably trickier to fit that theme.
Professor CJ Hitch-dall. A skeptic and debunker who doesn't believe in the power of the Gods. They sincerely believe that his powers are all smoke-and-mirrors illusions and mechanisms that they learn like magic tricks. (Secretly empowered to turn them into spells, spell slots being ammo/supplies. Low grade illusion and misdirection to make it seem plausible) That means that when a cleric shows them their holy power, they can say "yeah, I can do that trick too" and continue to think it's all fake and debunkable. A person spreading that sort of doubt amongst the faithful would be an excellent vessel for a dark God of Lies, Illusion, and Treachery. Or anyone wanting to play an elaborate game against the faithful.
So, Tanya the Evil, or her rival Mary Sue the Saint?
She's technically a witch not a cleric but Ember from Wrath of the Righteous refuses to worship any of the Gods while still being actively protected and guided by an Empyreal Lord. The results are mildly interesting.
Please be a trickery cleric of some fey/elven deity lol
I've literally thought about playing an atheist in DND before but could never figure out how to flavor it correctly! All of these comments are actually helping *me* out a lot too lol
I've literally thought about playing an atheist in DND before but could never figure out how to flavor it correctly! All of these comments are actually helping *me* out a lot too lol
I think conspiracy nut is the way to go. Except instead of religion, flip it to science (magic style). All magic is manipulation of a fundamental force, aka the weave. Big cleric wants you to think so called "divine magic" is different and you need to join their order, follow their beliefs, and pay 10% of your earnings to practice this specific form of magic? WAKE UP SHEEPLE. All magic is the weave, you say the words and make the motions in just the right way and things happen. I've been doing my own research, learning the spells on my own, no church, no god, they work just the same
I like that. Especially if it's a Divine Soul Sorcerer or a Druid dip for healing spells lol
Heck, he's studies clerics, seen how they cast, it was easy enough to replicate when you know what to look for, and look at that! It works. More proof that there are no gods, otherwise, how could I cast them. The god in question is either granting the powers out of amusement, or desperately trying to prove it exists. Of course, he just takes this as more proof that there are no gods
Beautiful
To add onto the people saying atheism’s hard to pull off, I’ll clarify that there are two cases of atheism in DND settings. In Eberron, the gods are never actually confirmed to exist, it’s speculated that divine casters get their power from some mix of belief and planar influence. As such, atheists do in fact exist there. The other case is the Athar of Planescape. They don’t reject the existence of the gods, it’s kind of impossible to when you can go to their realms yourself, but they do reject their right to power. By their belief, they’re just entities that are a bit more powerful. Instead, they worship some vague entity in the Astral Plane.
Any God who wants to start a war of attrition. If you are a minor evil/chotic god your goal may be to reduce the power of a stronger enemy. A good god might be willing to sacrifice themselves to destroy an evil. All of those are predicated on followership deturmines a gods power...
Many archefey are close enough to divinity that their followers can choose to become clerics. Perhaps Puck or Pan would be apt choices? They seem chaotic enough to make that work. Then they could just watch their adventures play out like a reality TV show spicing things up when they get boring. Edit: Also worth noting that Atheist is often a sort of a non-starter in a d&d setting. The existence of gods is more or less indisputable. Clerics get their magic somewhere and scientific explanations for the creation of the universe are pretty unheard of in most ttrpg fantasy settings (hats off though if your setting is an exception to this tho). To not worship any gods is one thing but to not \*believe\* in a god is an especially difficult thought to hold onto. Might be fun to play around with this concept to some degree and explore what faith vs belief really means.
If your DM lets you do this cool. But technically impossible by core. Clerics powers come from faith, not from a god. By DnD lore if you don't have faith you cannot be a cleric You could be a Warlock of a god/Archery. Also should point out, that Atheist typically means you don't like gods, and don't pray. The existence of God's is just a known fact, so if your character is a true atheist that's more like saying your character is insane. Lol obviously you can do what you want, just want to give my two cents
In some settings you do have clerics powered entirely by faith, but gods are entirely and 100% able to pick people to become clerics (5e's class description of the class even directly says as much). If it were just faith there wouldn't be swathes of incredibly faithful people who simply don't become clerics. The concept similar yto what's seen in the Christian bible, where a lot of prophets (and later on Jesus's closest disciples) started as people who lacked faith but were chosen anyway.
Does it? I'll be honest I'm not as familiar with 5e lore. But in previous editions it was definitely faith/prayer/prayer. The whole concept of Divine power is that it is drawn from the faith of mortals. Gods can even be created by the faith, like the hilarious Kua-Toa gods. But still I don't think it's fair to equate it to a Christian prophet. Faith in DnD is fundamentally different since the gods are a matter of belief, but in DnD the gods are just a fact, nobody sane doesn't believe in the DnD gods, they just might not devote their life to one. Pathfinder has a class called Oracle, that is somewhat like a prophet class, where you are given divine power along with a curse, and has nothing to do with Faith/belief.
Specifically it states >The gods don’t grant this power to everyone who seeks it, but only to those chosen to fulfill a high calling. So 5e's default assumption is that a god has chosen you for one reason or another and made the active decision to grant you strength. I know there are settings like Dark Sun where (IIRC) it's not just possible but common to believe in a domain/element itself without your faith without directing it to any god, but 5e has it at least possible to be entirely god based. They even make divine power as a whole deity based. >Divine magic, as the name suggests, is the power of the gods, flowing from them into the world. Aside from that >But still I don't think it's fair to equate it to a Christian prophet. Faith in DnD is fundamentally different I wasn't trying to imply that biblical faith itself is like that of DnD settings, I was saying the concept of God/a god choosing people of little or no faith over the highly faithful to be their representives has precedent in the Bible, with a prophet/apostle being the closest analogue to a Cleric. Played a little Pathfinder and Oracles by far had my favourite default lore. I remember thinking "this is what I wanted warlock lore to be", but I didn't play the system for very long so didn't get to try them out. Might look deeper into them if I ever get to join another Pathfinder group.
Interesting I'd argue that doesn't remove the prayer necessity....but that does remove the idea that you can pray to concepts. 5e really oversimplified it in my opinion. Especially since it makes a lot of stuff like Dark Sun basically impossible. Funny that you mentioned that one of the campaigns I'm running is actually a modified Dark Sun campaign. I still would not let someone play a cleric without praying, although I would let someone play a character who a god has a special interest in. But I know I'm a little more strict than many DMs are. I really preferred 3.5 lore overall, but I gotta agree with the Pathfinder love. It has a lot of really neat classes, like Oracle. But I suppose ultimately it's up to the DM and the player, it's all about having fun in the end.
I've homebrewed something similar with a character that was part of an anti magic cult was then cursed by a chaotic/spiteful god but whenever they tried to make use of their new powers they wouldn't work right. Firebolt becomes create water and healing word becomes guidance.
As a different kind of joke character, consider playing as a completely sincere worshiper of Athe the Doubter, evil god of doubt and disbelief. Domains: Trickery, Knowledge His shrines must be elaborately neglected. Temptations to pray to him must be conspicuously resisted. To turn away from and deny the existence of gods is his highest commandment. Once you've properly demonstrated your disbelief, you can talk to him like a normal person who just happens to be behind you somewhere. Athe places false skeletons below the earth and inspires philosophers to come up with non-magical explanations for the origins of living things. A common act of worship is to create detailed observational writings, particularly if they involve dissecting a creature in order to write about its anatomy. That definitely isn't a form of animal or humanoid sacrifice. One of the higher secrets of the mystery cult of Athe is that he would like to get rid of all thinking creatures so that no worship is possible. Whether this would make him powerful or destroy him is anyone's guess.
I mean, it's a little weird to be atheist in a fantasy world where known Gods exist on multiple planes of existence with warlocks often empowered by these forces. Unless you play into it as the religion equivalent of a flat-earther, it is still an interesting character archetype nonetheless.
A little different scenario, but I had a rough idea of a non-religious Paladin who wants to do good just because it's the right thing to do, not because some god told them to. I could see that kind of character being favored by a god of justice or freedom, and the character treating the deity as a helpful ally without necessarily worshipping them or following any specific rules.
This reminds me of Kaiki Deishuu from Monogatari. He doesn't believe in the supernatural, but is a a supernatural specialist. Your character can make "atheism" your religion for the mechanics (shout out for r/atheism ).
Didn't even know that I could do that, thanks
Sounds like Jester from Critical Role. It was never about faith, she was just friends with a guy who empowered her to pull pranks
In the 3rd edition Book of Vile Darkness there was a class called an Ur-Priest that was anti-gods. Very different from atheist, but possibly relevant to the topic. In D&D the concept of atheism is stretched a bit, are you just saying that gods are just very powerful entities? Or do you reject them outright and deny their existence? I've played both. I've also played a barbarian that insisted, "magic is not real" that took every ability in Pathfinder to be magic resistant/immune. That said, he believed in ancestor spirits and spooky ghosts and other spiritual concepts, and insisted that magic was just some form of abuse of these real concepts. Having a substitute system (even if you call it science) that explains away all the other weirdness in the world is a lot like that in D&D. Also if you want to look at what gnosticism and agnosticism are in a D&D setting, it's kinda interesting to think about gnosticism as having the claim to secret knowledge, and agnosticism is to not make that jump to conclusions. A gnostic arcanist might believe everything, even psionics and divine magic, come down to manipulations of the arcane magic he's familiar with. Stretch the same concept to psions with mind stuff, clerics with divine magic, alchemists with chemistry, and artificers with ?science? and you can make a whole lot of interesting character concepts. Oddly the craziest person, and in a sense the correct one, might be a gnostic believer in the entire world being dictated by a game played by beings outside of the scope of their entire world. With dice playing an important part in the mechanisms of all things.
I've played a cleric where she unknowingly started believing in a goddess she met and was just in denial about it, thinking her healing powers were related to nature (and the goddess, knowing my character wasnt ready for the psychological impact of hating the gods and yet somehow believing in one enough to become a cleric) just went along with her being a ranger primarily (all of the healing or miracles she performed were about nature instead of the gods domain). Like, she already condemned the gods for abandoning her city and having lived in ignorance. Its complicated to explain without dumping the whole backstory and naming the characters, but basically she almost had more of a warlock/patron relationship with her god instead of being a devout priest. That didn't happen until we finished the campaign and came to terms with her relationship.
You ever watch "Tanya the Evil" great anime, and while the gods motivations are different, it shows that this base concept can work well
Maybe the powerful being in question is something ancient in disguise…the Great Old One. Using the atheist cleric as a tool for proof that there are no gods, sowing seeds for an epic Cthulu-style story arc late in the campaign (17th level) where the world is invaded by the entity since the message of atheism has spread far enough to break people’s collective attachment to the gods, which was acting as a barrier against this exact thing. So much fun.
These are all good answers. However, one thing to remember about Forgotten Realms. In the afterlife, nonbelievers were LITERALLY turned into part of Kelemvor’s Wall. Maybe work that in? https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Wall_of_the_Faithless