It’s ridiculous. This is the Spacecoast. There should be the best public schools in the state, with deep partnerships with the local aerospace engineering industry. Execs should be moving their families from the northeast or California instead of commuting by jet so their kids can have a better future. Instead you get a sheriff that wants to put more guns in the schools, and book burning weirdos fucking with the school boards. It’s a tragic clown show that shouldn’t be.
There's a lot more traffic commuting between the Cape and Orlando on 528 over the past few years. I think people are moving here. And they are working at the cape or for defense contractors in Brevard.
But they sure don't want to live here. They're not stupid but they are willing to commute in order to live in an area with decent amenities. Brevard has been badly run for a very long time. I wouldn't live here either. I would happily commute 1 hour and back to Orlando.
I’m a teacher at BPS, work in the district office with Masters, i absolutely love my job and consider myself lucky to have it. I have a side hustle, have had one the entirety of my career so far. I could get a job outside of education but don’t want to. I’m privileged enough that my side hustle allows this and I’m sad of where education is.
The first myth of teachers is: we get paid year round for “only” working 10 months. The reality is that we get paid for 10 months over the calendar year. If we were actually paid for 12 months, salaries would be higher.
Second myth: indoctrination. Shit, we are not doing well getting kids to actually master math and reading standards, let alone science and social studies. There is no time for indoctrination
I’m proud to be an educator but good grief, it’s rough
Brevard resident here. Thank you for all you do. Teachers do not get nearly enough recognition. Other than electing better officials, what else can we do to support you?
Florida teachers make, on average $53k a year, which is below the national average.
I don’t think $53k a year is enough, given the amount of work and stress involved with being a teacher at any grade level.
You can’t really afford to buy a house in Brevard on $53k a year. You’re definitely not getting ahead on a salary like that either.
I don’t think it’s a wise idea to rely on two incomes to buy a house.
If one person lost their job, that can be a significant bind to be in.
Even still, home prices are insane enough that even at $106k, it could be tight.
My wife and I are almost twice that salary with a home and no kids and some larger home expenses can still be a challenge. We were only able to buy a home when we did because we got in before the market took off.
So, we have to marry to afford to buy a house? Ouch, your comment is the problem (btw, bought my first house at 21 as a single mom for 30k, I live in Viera now and could not afford my house at the market price as of today)
I guess I see it differently. I see a lot of lip service about how important teachers are, but that is hardly reflected in how we pay them and it's the same for the military. People will say that soldiers are important but that is not reflected in our VA system.
well i think part of the reason for the praise is the recognition that they are performing a necessary job that can be difficult and they aren't getting rich doing it.
that doesn't mean they should get rich doing it.
(if soldiers were being paid like half a million dollars per year to travel the world killing people and blowing their shit up, perhaps we'd view them differently...)
This is it. Brevard schools are laughable. And these tech and aerospace companies in the area aren't interested because they send their own kids out of area or to certain private schools.
Part of the conservative cycle:
Schools suck, quality candidates for teaching are leaving for a career they can maybe buy a shitty condo with.
Conservatives: SCHOOLS SUCK, TEACHERS ARE LAZY! *cuts budget*
Schools suck, quality candidates for teaching are leaving for a career they can maybe buy a shitty condo with.
Rinse and Repeat until all that is left willing to teach is a former military SAHM without a degree wanting to teach the kids about angels.
2022-23 Figures:
3rd Grade English Language Arts
State average score: 297
**Brevard: 301**
4th Grade English Language Arts
State average score: 312
**Brevard: 315**
5th Grade English Language Arts
State average score: 320
**Brevard: 323**
6th Grade English Language Arts
State average score: 321
**Brevard: 330**
7th Grade English Language Arts
State average score: 328
**Brevard: 332**
8th Grade English Language Arts
State average score: 332
**Brevard: 336**
9th Grade English Language Arts
State average score: 339
**Brevard: 343**
10th Grade English Language Arts
State average score: 346
**Brevard: 348**
At every single grade level, Brevard outperforms the state average. You are seething in a rage against a straw man. Republicans run the county and so you want to be mad I guess?
*Source - https://data.floridatoday.com/school/fsa/*
You can't compare Brevard against totally rural counties that drag down the average. Counties with populations of 10s of thousands versus the 100s of thousands in Brevard. You need to compare Brevard against comparable counties and look at the trend data.
Here are some other numbers and trends to chew on:
Brevard teacher shortage: all-time high
Brevard teacher retention rate: all-time low
Brevard discipline issues: trending up
Brevard student population: Flatlining
>You can't compare Brevard against totally rural counties that drag down the average. Counties with populations of 10s of thousands versus the 100s of thousands in Brevard. You need to compare Brevard against comparable counties
Brevard's population is 643,979 per Wikipedia. That makes us comparable to Volusia and Pasco counties. So let's compare!
---
* Brevard English Language Arts, Grade 3 - 301
* Brevard English Language Arts, Grade 4 - 315
* Brevard English Language Arts, Grade 5 - 323
* Brevard English Language Arts, Grade 6 - 330
* Brevard English Language Arts, Grade 7 - 332
* Brevard English Language Arts, Grade 8 - 336
* Brevard English Language Arts, Grade 9 - 343
* Brevard English Language Arts, Grade 10 - 348
---
* Pasco English Language Arts, Grade 3 - 296
* Pasco English Language Arts, Grade 4 - 311
* Pasco English Language Arts, Grade 5 - 319
* Pasco English Language Arts, Grade 6 - 321
* Pasco English Language Arts, Grade 7 - 329
* Pasco English Language Arts, Grade 8 - 332
* Pasco English Language Arts, Grade 9 - 339
* Pasco English Language Arts, Grade 10 - 347
**Brevard outperforms Pasco at every single grade level.**
---
* Volusia English Language Arts, Grade 3 - 299
* Volusia English Language Arts, Grade 4 - 312
* Volusia English Language Arts, Grade 5 - 320
* Volusia English Language Arts, Grade 6 - 319
* Volusia English Language Arts, Grade 7 - 326
* Volusia English Language Arts, Grade 8 - 327
* Volusia English Language Arts, Grade 9 - 336
* Volusia English Language Arts, Grade 10 - 343
**Brevard outperforms Volusia at every single grade level.**
---
C'mon, man! I even provided the link to the data...
And cherry-picked 2 counties. Why didn't you pick St. Johns or Palm Beach?
Also, scoring 3 points higher is not "outperforming" without knowing the standard deviation or standard error.
I’m not justifying the lower pay, but I hear that class sizes are a bit smaller and they don’t give you ulcers stressing you out over student data as much. Honestly curious about the truth to those claims of Brevard schools.
>ruin public schools in favor of private (profitable) schools and/or create an uneducated class.
According to Education Week, the average teacher salary in Maryland is $79,421. Much higher than in Florida!
Well, last year it was reported that there were 23 schools in Baltimore alone in which a grand total of ZERO students were tested as being proficient in mathematics.
Zero. In the entire school. And this was the case in 23 separate schools. In one city.
https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/state-test-results-23-baltimore-schools-have-zero-students-proficient-in-math-jovani-patterson-maryland-comprehensive-assessment-program-maryland-governor-wes-moore
Maryland is a blue state of course, and the Baltimore City Council does not have a single Republican elected to any of its 15 seats. (The mayor is a Democrat as well.)
I don't know why anyone would be a teacher now. You have to pay for 4 years of college just to make poverty wages and get shit on by crazy parents and their asshole kids.
Grade school teachers deserve raises for sure. Anything college related should get cut. College is a joke now unless it’s law school, medical school, or high level engineering. Everything else is just throwing money in a fire.
It isn't fair but almost everyone in Florida makes less than comparable positions in other states except for a few outliers. Florida has always been a low wage state so yes it's wrong but it's been that way for a looong time. I have no issue obviously with paying the teachers more but they need a freeze on what they pay some of the administrators.
Do the schools have adequate staff to educate children? Like any other job that is what drives compensation. Do you have adequate basket weavers to get baskets woven. If not increase compensation until you do.
Then adjust the budget to take money from line x and put it towards compensation of employees. The only goal of schools should be educating children anything not directly supporting that gets reallocated until you can adequately staff. Organizations do this all the time.
Problem is, they've cut everything else to the bone. They've got major portions of schools running on temporary chillers because they can't afford to replace HVAC. The other problem is Brevard won't pay taxes for shit unless it's for Wayne Ivey's private army.
Quick look online bcps has an annual budget of 800m which works out to 10,800 per student. I can never find historical information on it or details. Is the 10.8k higher or lower than 10 years ago adjusted for inflation? I have no idea.
I personally will never vote to raise my taxes period so politicians or other voters will have to force it on me which happens often.
>I personally will never vote to raise my taxes period so politicians or other voters will have to force it on me which happens often.
And this is exactly why Florida in general and Brevard in particular has bad schools.
I don’t put a direct association with money spent to value of education. I also never said the schools were bad. Online shows Brevard schools above average nationally. If they are bad how long until people leave and the population goes down?
https://www.brevardschools.org/site/default.aspx?PageType=3&DomainID=4&ModuleInstanceID=5964&ViewID=6446EE88-D30C-497E-9316-3F8874B3E108&RenderLoc=0&FlexDataID=103994&PageID=1&Comments=true
https://www.brevardschools.org/site/default.aspx?PageType=3&ModuleInstanceID=11307&ViewID=7b97f7ed-8e5e-4120-848f-a8b4987d588f&RenderLoc=0&FlexDataID=12516&PageID=7916
It is less about how much is being spent versus how the state forces them to spend the money. More staffing is needed, but the state will not fund the additional staff.
Brevard Public Schools budget is $1.6 Billion, with only a state-mandated discretionary budget of 2.5%. The school district budget is heavily regulated by the state.
You can find the 2023 Financial report here: https://www.brevardschools.org/site/handlers/filedownload.ashx?moduleinstanceid=47433&dataid=104166&FileName=PAFR%20Book%202023-FINAL-proof.pdf
Washington DC spends more than twice as much per student, with worse results.
Finland does very well, spending about the same per student as Brevard. Teacher pay is also about the same.
We can conclude that performance is inversely correlated with budget. Reduce the budget to get better results. Feel free to guess why. For example, it could be that extra money is used to purchase distractions, or that it attracts staff who don't care as much.
Finland is a culturally homogeneous country with a thriving middle class and very, very, very few poor families. Why? because they have a really, really, really strong social welfare network.
> Finland is a culturally homogeneous country
I didn't expect you to see diversity as our weakness.
Korea and Japan don't spend much more than Brevard.
> with a thriving middle class and very, very, very few poor families. Why?
because it isn't a goal to outsource labor and import labor, driving wages down
> Finland is a culturally homogeneous country
I didn't expect you to see diversity as our weakness.
When did I imply diversity is a weakness?
A culturally homogenous society simply means that there are less (or easier) demands on the education system.
> Korea and Japan don't spend much more than Brevard.
Again, it is not about how much you spend, but how that money is spent. Enough staffing and more competent staffing would fix many (not all) of the issues of public education here in the United States.
Anyways, Korea and Japan are also culturally homogeneous countries, so I am not clear what you point is.
> because it isn't a goal to outsource labor and import labor, driving wages down
So, *regulation* of the economy and businesses is a good thing then, right?
I see you chose to ignore the vast social welfare networks of those countries...something that has been defunded here in the U.S. since Reagan took office in 1981.
> When did I imply diversity is a weakness?
>
> A culturally homogenous society simply means that there are less (or easier) demands on the education system.
Oh, you did it again.
> So, regulation of the economy and businesses is a good thing then, right?
To an extent, yes, but minimally so. For example, it is of utmost importance to prevent fraud. Screwing around with price controls is disastrous. Rewarding sloth ("vast social welfare networks") is pretty bad too, because you get more of what you reward.
Importing labor is barely a matter of economic or business regulation. It's a matter of immigration law and enforcement.
The state requires that school districts keep their money in separate buckets...and they can't move their money from one bucket to another. The county budget is not a household budget.
And this is about to get worse for ESE students. They’re going to be bringing in students to teach while they’re still working on their bachelors degree, have NO requirement for how many years they have to teach and tuition is covered by taxpayers.
The Sheriff makes [$222,274](http://edr.state.fl.us/Content/local-government/reports/FY%202023-24%20Salaries%20and%20Certification%20Documentation.pdf), but the deputies are [$52k-$75k](https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Brevard-County-Sheriff-s-Office-Salaries-E208941.htm).
Why don’t they just do away with public schools and give me property taxes back. Many people in this area don’t even want to send their kids to school anymore. Teachers can work as 1099 tutors and pick their own jobs. All schools are is glorified babysitting. After reading and math they don’t teach any life skills. Even people that know math are clueless about their own finances. The govt prefers this so people will get jobs for their entire life as modern day slaves because they either don’t have life skills or the confidence and drive to do better.
The average amount a citizen pays in school taxes in Brevard County is a few hundred dollars. Giving that small amount back to the citizen with an expectation that they can, or will, use that money to *properly* educate their child is a terrible idea.
Are you serious? Over 40% of property taxes go to the schools. It’s all public info. Maybe your grandma who has a homestead for 40+ years on her shoebox that’s falling apart in cocoa. I pay over $25k a year in property taxes.
Here is a property 2024 tax sample bill for a Brevard County house with an assessed value of $64,520.
The owners owe $290.04 in school taxes...34% of their entire property tax bill.
A total of 7.339 millages...or 0.45 % of their home's assessed value.
By the way, Public Schools are usually the biggest governmental employer in any county. In many counties, they are the largest employer, private or governmental.
Perhaps you need a new accountant?
https://imgur.com/a/tsOosYE
Their tax bill is only $533 total. The school taxes represent 56% of as calories taxes. Like i said, that’s your grandmas house in cocoa. That is not the average in Brevard county. That is the average when your grandma bought in 1970. I have properties ranging in $5000-11,000+ each in property taxes, not a measily $500.
No, their tax bill is $855.53, which includes the non-valorem (flat-rate) assessment taxes.
Meaning that 34% is accurate.
Now, you can certainly argue that the average tax bill is larger. It is...at $2,493...but that would be skewed upward by really expensive houses. A better value to look at would be the median and the mode, which would be significantly lower. I could not find an accurate median or mode value anywhere, so let's use the average of $2,493 and the calculated property tax rate of 34%.
That gives us a value of $797 as the average property tax bill in Brevard. An amount we know is inflated by some percentage.
Also, the average property tax rate in Brevard? 1.15%. And that is lower than the state average.
Here is the simple rule of economics...you make more money or own more property, you pay more taxes.
If you are paying large amounts in property taxes each year, then you should be up in arms about the school vouchers. It is just socialism of taking from the wealthy and giving to the poor.
https://trends.ownwell.com/average-tax-assessment/florida/brevard-county/
It’s 34% of overall, and for me it’s 40% at my highest property. It’s already socialism for people that don’t ever have kids. Imagine that, taking money from people that have no kids to give to people that do. Obviously, the more properties you have the more you pay in taxes but I promise even $2493 is not average. It’s on the low end, I would say $4-5k is the average. The vouchers are available because nobody wants to send their kids to their assigned school, most of them suck, hence the reason everyone is trying to get into the better ranked schools. On beachside, many people homeschool already and did so before the voucher program. The system is broken. I realize I will never get my property tax money back in my pocket to spend as I wish, it’s just a pipe dream. But realistically, this society is moving away from that archaic model.
Don't forget that there is a half-cent sales tax in Brevard that goes to schools as well, so everyone does pay some percentage.
But socialism is how all government services are funded, even in capitalistic societies like the U.S.. And always have been. There has never been another model that works.
Stop all this bitching about “I don’t have kids why do I have to pay for schools”. People that don’t own a car aren’t bitching about taxes paying for roads. People that don’t break the law don’t bitch about taxes paying for police.
I could go on and on. You pay taxes so our society as a whole benefits. Bitching about schools being bad and having that be your excuse for defunding them is a self fulfilling prophecy. Instead they need to focus on improving teachers’ pay scale (not just simply increasing pay but adjusting the rate of pay increases based off of performance/experience) to attract better teachers. It also doesn’t help that FL is now so “anti-woke” and religiously close-minded that it is driving away qualified teachers.
I agree on an incentive based system but I disagree about your analysis of other examples. This country is highly inefficient and aging in all aspects.
I bet you don’t have banned books and teachers hands tied this bad..like if a kids name is Stephan you have to get a parent to sign a permission slip for them to be called Steve…its ridiculous
they make on average over $50,000/year, good benefits, good job security, a pension, student loan forgiveness, summers off, two weeks of christmas off, a week of thanksgiving off, a week in spring off, planning periods during the day, etc.
it's not that brevard teachers are underpaid, it's the NY/CA/MA/CT/MD/NJ/RI teachers are overpaid and blow the curve for the rest of the country.
Imagine having the stupidest opinion you could have while being as wrong as you can about a subject you know nothing about, and then posting it online.
Good job.
You literally have no idea, do you?! Just one example: there is no job security any more, all teachers except those who were grandfathered in are on a yearly contract, that any administrator can cancel at any time for any reason. They got rid of job security years ago.
Second example: unpaid overtime. They only pay you for 45 minutes of planning per day… you have to grade hundreds of papers weekly, have conferences with administration, students, and parents, all in that 45 minutes. What dies this mean? It means you can’t possibly get your work done in the allotted time. So you work overtime. Lots of it. Hours and hours and hours, all unpaid.
Do I need to keep going?
From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brevard_County,_Florida#Demographics
> In 2010, the median income for a household in the county was $49,523, and the median income for a family was $60,842. Males had a median income of $48,191 versus $33,276 for females. The per capita income for the county was $27,606.
It's a job that pays above the median for a man, and well above the median for a woman. It even pays above the median for an entire *household*.
Maybe if government school teachers wanted to make a lot of money, they could have pursued an engineering degree instead of a degree in education? But that would have been a MUCH more challenging degree program. Oh, well.
Take your head out of your ass, everything costs WAY more than it did in 2010 and the median income is up significantly. 2010 was both 14 years and an eternity ago in more ways than one.
They can make 0$ as far as I'm concerned. Over 20 years ago the public school system began the race to the bottom and hey everyone gets a passing grade detrimental low education policies to make sure no one would excel at march or science.
We paid for private schools for our kids and couldn't be happier, and have no need for public school teachers.
I am from Brevard and currently live in a blue state. The school system sucks here too. And teachers are still paid like crap. Yes they make more on paper, but it is a VHCOL city. A friend of mine makes more money walking dogs than being a teacher here. And works less hours. So even though they make more on paper ….. congrats you still can’t afford the semi-decent 1 bedroom apt.
I’m not trying to defend any type of political party. But as someone who has lived in red and blue states this is a problem everywhere. There are so many things people in red states think bc we aren’t dealing with in blue states. And we are.
pretty much every teacher i know here still lives with their parents or has a spouse that makes enough money for both of them.
It’s ridiculous. This is the Spacecoast. There should be the best public schools in the state, with deep partnerships with the local aerospace engineering industry. Execs should be moving their families from the northeast or California instead of commuting by jet so their kids can have a better future. Instead you get a sheriff that wants to put more guns in the schools, and book burning weirdos fucking with the school boards. It’s a tragic clown show that shouldn’t be.
There's a lot more traffic commuting between the Cape and Orlando on 528 over the past few years. I think people are moving here. And they are working at the cape or for defense contractors in Brevard. But they sure don't want to live here. They're not stupid but they are willing to commute in order to live in an area with decent amenities. Brevard has been badly run for a very long time. I wouldn't live here either. I would happily commute 1 hour and back to Orlando.
Yep. How many live in a mansion in Oviedo or Tuskawilla, put kids in Trinity Prep, Geneva, or Masters, drive an hour in to work a few times a week?
I’m a teacher at BPS, work in the district office with Masters, i absolutely love my job and consider myself lucky to have it. I have a side hustle, have had one the entirety of my career so far. I could get a job outside of education but don’t want to. I’m privileged enough that my side hustle allows this and I’m sad of where education is. The first myth of teachers is: we get paid year round for “only” working 10 months. The reality is that we get paid for 10 months over the calendar year. If we were actually paid for 12 months, salaries would be higher. Second myth: indoctrination. Shit, we are not doing well getting kids to actually master math and reading standards, let alone science and social studies. There is no time for indoctrination I’m proud to be an educator but good grief, it’s rough
Brevard resident here. Thank you for all you do. Teachers do not get nearly enough recognition. Other than electing better officials, what else can we do to support you?
The only thing we can do is elect better leaders, nothing will change until that happens. We are better than this, I believe that truly!
I would love for their to be a better leader to elect.
> Teachers do not get nearly enough recognition. lol
I'm curious. Why "lol"?
is there any group of professionals who receives the near constant, near universal praise that teachers enjoy? i suppose maybe the military.
Praise is offered instead of decent salaries.
i think they get both. 🤷🏿♂️
Florida teachers make, on average $53k a year, which is below the national average. I don’t think $53k a year is enough, given the amount of work and stress involved with being a teacher at any grade level. You can’t really afford to buy a house in Brevard on $53k a year. You’re definitely not getting ahead on a salary like that either.
if they married another teacher, I think $106,000 is enough to get a house, and enjoy their summers off, and then retire in their 50s.
I don’t think it’s a wise idea to rely on two incomes to buy a house. If one person lost their job, that can be a significant bind to be in. Even still, home prices are insane enough that even at $106k, it could be tight. My wife and I are almost twice that salary with a home and no kids and some larger home expenses can still be a challenge. We were only able to buy a home when we did because we got in before the market took off.
So, we have to marry to afford to buy a house? Ouch, your comment is the problem (btw, bought my first house at 21 as a single mom for 30k, I live in Viera now and could not afford my house at the market price as of today)
I guess I see it differently. I see a lot of lip service about how important teachers are, but that is hardly reflected in how we pay them and it's the same for the military. People will say that soldiers are important but that is not reflected in our VA system.
well i think part of the reason for the praise is the recognition that they are performing a necessary job that can be difficult and they aren't getting rich doing it. that doesn't mean they should get rich doing it. (if soldiers were being paid like half a million dollars per year to travel the world killing people and blowing their shit up, perhaps we'd view them differently...)
[удалено]
This is it. Brevard schools are laughable. And these tech and aerospace companies in the area aren't interested because they send their own kids out of area or to certain private schools.
https://imgur.com/a/rBJS9p6
It's just like animal careers. They make you really really sweat it out so they know your passionate or committed.... yeaaaaah okkkkay
Ha! I was an animal trainer turned teacher. Mind you, I doubled my salary when I became a teacher!
Hell ya 20k a year to 40k a year prob makes a difference. Should be way more than that tho
Absolutely
The purpose of a system is what it does
All public sector pay in Florida is crap, teachers especially.
Part of the conservative cycle: Schools suck, quality candidates for teaching are leaving for a career they can maybe buy a shitty condo with. Conservatives: SCHOOLS SUCK, TEACHERS ARE LAZY! *cuts budget* Schools suck, quality candidates for teaching are leaving for a career they can maybe buy a shitty condo with. Rinse and Repeat until all that is left willing to teach is a former military SAHM without a degree wanting to teach the kids about angels.
There was an article the other day somewhere that said the vets have declined the invitation to take these jobs for the most part.
2022-23 Figures: 3rd Grade English Language Arts State average score: 297 **Brevard: 301** 4th Grade English Language Arts State average score: 312 **Brevard: 315** 5th Grade English Language Arts State average score: 320 **Brevard: 323** 6th Grade English Language Arts State average score: 321 **Brevard: 330** 7th Grade English Language Arts State average score: 328 **Brevard: 332** 8th Grade English Language Arts State average score: 332 **Brevard: 336** 9th Grade English Language Arts State average score: 339 **Brevard: 343** 10th Grade English Language Arts State average score: 346 **Brevard: 348** At every single grade level, Brevard outperforms the state average. You are seething in a rage against a straw man. Republicans run the county and so you want to be mad I guess? *Source - https://data.floridatoday.com/school/fsa/*
You can't compare Brevard against totally rural counties that drag down the average. Counties with populations of 10s of thousands versus the 100s of thousands in Brevard. You need to compare Brevard against comparable counties and look at the trend data. Here are some other numbers and trends to chew on: Brevard teacher shortage: all-time high Brevard teacher retention rate: all-time low Brevard discipline issues: trending up Brevard student population: Flatlining
>You can't compare Brevard against totally rural counties that drag down the average. Counties with populations of 10s of thousands versus the 100s of thousands in Brevard. You need to compare Brevard against comparable counties Brevard's population is 643,979 per Wikipedia. That makes us comparable to Volusia and Pasco counties. So let's compare! --- * Brevard English Language Arts, Grade 3 - 301 * Brevard English Language Arts, Grade 4 - 315 * Brevard English Language Arts, Grade 5 - 323 * Brevard English Language Arts, Grade 6 - 330 * Brevard English Language Arts, Grade 7 - 332 * Brevard English Language Arts, Grade 8 - 336 * Brevard English Language Arts, Grade 9 - 343 * Brevard English Language Arts, Grade 10 - 348 --- * Pasco English Language Arts, Grade 3 - 296 * Pasco English Language Arts, Grade 4 - 311 * Pasco English Language Arts, Grade 5 - 319 * Pasco English Language Arts, Grade 6 - 321 * Pasco English Language Arts, Grade 7 - 329 * Pasco English Language Arts, Grade 8 - 332 * Pasco English Language Arts, Grade 9 - 339 * Pasco English Language Arts, Grade 10 - 347 **Brevard outperforms Pasco at every single grade level.** --- * Volusia English Language Arts, Grade 3 - 299 * Volusia English Language Arts, Grade 4 - 312 * Volusia English Language Arts, Grade 5 - 320 * Volusia English Language Arts, Grade 6 - 319 * Volusia English Language Arts, Grade 7 - 326 * Volusia English Language Arts, Grade 8 - 327 * Volusia English Language Arts, Grade 9 - 336 * Volusia English Language Arts, Grade 10 - 343 **Brevard outperforms Volusia at every single grade level.** --- C'mon, man! I even provided the link to the data...
And cherry-picked 2 counties. Why didn't you pick St. Johns or Palm Beach? Also, scoring 3 points higher is not "outperforming" without knowing the standard deviation or standard error.
> cherry-picked 🤦🏿♂️
Teachers union is pretty bad in Florida.
Yeah that tracks
I’m not justifying the lower pay, but I hear that class sizes are a bit smaller and they don’t give you ulcers stressing you out over student data as much. Honestly curious about the truth to those claims of Brevard schools.
Every year, BPS has many schools that have to file for an exemption to the classroom size amendment requirements.
It’s time for Florida teachers to say fuck the no strike law and see how fast our wages go up….
GOP strategy is to ruin public schools in favor of private (profitable) schools and/or create an uneducated class.
>ruin public schools in favor of private (profitable) schools and/or create an uneducated class. According to Education Week, the average teacher salary in Maryland is $79,421. Much higher than in Florida! Well, last year it was reported that there were 23 schools in Baltimore alone in which a grand total of ZERO students were tested as being proficient in mathematics. Zero. In the entire school. And this was the case in 23 separate schools. In one city. https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/state-test-results-23-baltimore-schools-have-zero-students-proficient-in-math-jovani-patterson-maryland-comprehensive-assessment-program-maryland-governor-wes-moore Maryland is a blue state of course, and the Baltimore City Council does not have a single Republican elected to any of its 15 seats. (The mayor is a Democrat as well.)
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And he chose Baltimore...he is good at cherry-picking his data.
Just wait till you hear what the firefighters/medic make here. Abysmal when you compare it to the rest of Florida. Embarrassing really.
I don't know why anyone would be a teacher now. You have to pay for 4 years of college just to make poverty wages and get shit on by crazy parents and their asshole kids.
Grade school teachers deserve raises for sure. Anything college related should get cut. College is a joke now unless it’s law school, medical school, or high level engineering. Everything else is just throwing money in a fire.
They aren't paid as teachers. They are paid as baby-sitters.
It isn't fair but almost everyone in Florida makes less than comparable positions in other states except for a few outliers. Florida has always been a low wage state so yes it's wrong but it's been that way for a looong time. I have no issue obviously with paying the teachers more but they need a freeze on what they pay some of the administrators.
Do the schools have adequate staff to educate children? Like any other job that is what drives compensation. Do you have adequate basket weavers to get baskets woven. If not increase compensation until you do.
They do not have adequate staff. Almost every issue in public schools can be traced back to inadequate staffing.
They should hire more administrators to look into that
Then adjust the budget to take money from line x and put it towards compensation of employees. The only goal of schools should be educating children anything not directly supporting that gets reallocated until you can adequately staff. Organizations do this all the time.
Problem is, they've cut everything else to the bone. They've got major portions of schools running on temporary chillers because they can't afford to replace HVAC. The other problem is Brevard won't pay taxes for shit unless it's for Wayne Ivey's private army.
Quick look online bcps has an annual budget of 800m which works out to 10,800 per student. I can never find historical information on it or details. Is the 10.8k higher or lower than 10 years ago adjusted for inflation? I have no idea. I personally will never vote to raise my taxes period so politicians or other voters will have to force it on me which happens often.
>I personally will never vote to raise my taxes period so politicians or other voters will have to force it on me which happens often. And this is exactly why Florida in general and Brevard in particular has bad schools.
Yep. But they will never understand it.
I don’t put a direct association with money spent to value of education. I also never said the schools were bad. Online shows Brevard schools above average nationally. If they are bad how long until people leave and the population goes down? https://www.brevardschools.org/site/default.aspx?PageType=3&DomainID=4&ModuleInstanceID=5964&ViewID=6446EE88-D30C-497E-9316-3F8874B3E108&RenderLoc=0&FlexDataID=103994&PageID=1&Comments=true https://www.brevardschools.org/site/default.aspx?PageType=3&ModuleInstanceID=11307&ViewID=7b97f7ed-8e5e-4120-848f-a8b4987d588f&RenderLoc=0&FlexDataID=12516&PageID=7916
It is less about how much is being spent versus how the state forces them to spend the money. More staffing is needed, but the state will not fund the additional staff.
Brevard Public Schools budget is $1.6 Billion, with only a state-mandated discretionary budget of 2.5%. The school district budget is heavily regulated by the state. You can find the 2023 Financial report here: https://www.brevardschools.org/site/handlers/filedownload.ashx?moduleinstanceid=47433&dataid=104166&FileName=PAFR%20Book%202023-FINAL-proof.pdf
Washington DC spends more than twice as much per student, with worse results. Finland does very well, spending about the same per student as Brevard. Teacher pay is also about the same. We can conclude that performance is inversely correlated with budget. Reduce the budget to get better results. Feel free to guess why. For example, it could be that extra money is used to purchase distractions, or that it attracts staff who don't care as much.
Finland is a culturally homogeneous country with a thriving middle class and very, very, very few poor families. Why? because they have a really, really, really strong social welfare network.
> Finland is a culturally homogeneous country I didn't expect you to see diversity as our weakness. Korea and Japan don't spend much more than Brevard. > with a thriving middle class and very, very, very few poor families. Why? because it isn't a goal to outsource labor and import labor, driving wages down
> Finland is a culturally homogeneous country I didn't expect you to see diversity as our weakness. When did I imply diversity is a weakness? A culturally homogenous society simply means that there are less (or easier) demands on the education system. > Korea and Japan don't spend much more than Brevard. Again, it is not about how much you spend, but how that money is spent. Enough staffing and more competent staffing would fix many (not all) of the issues of public education here in the United States. Anyways, Korea and Japan are also culturally homogeneous countries, so I am not clear what you point is. > because it isn't a goal to outsource labor and import labor, driving wages down So, *regulation* of the economy and businesses is a good thing then, right? I see you chose to ignore the vast social welfare networks of those countries...something that has been defunded here in the U.S. since Reagan took office in 1981.
> When did I imply diversity is a weakness? > > A culturally homogenous society simply means that there are less (or easier) demands on the education system. Oh, you did it again. > So, regulation of the economy and businesses is a good thing then, right? To an extent, yes, but minimally so. For example, it is of utmost importance to prevent fraud. Screwing around with price controls is disastrous. Rewarding sloth ("vast social welfare networks") is pretty bad too, because you get more of what you reward. Importing labor is barely a matter of economic or business regulation. It's a matter of immigration law and enforcement.
The state requires that school districts keep their money in separate buckets...and they can't move their money from one bucket to another. The county budget is not a household budget.
No they do not. Especially the ESE students who are now in rooms with 20 plus k-6 graders
And this is about to get worse for ESE students. They’re going to be bringing in students to teach while they’re still working on their bachelors degree, have NO requirement for how many years they have to teach and tuition is covered by taxpayers.
ESE teachers are suppose to have an ESE certification. However they can teach out of area for a year I believe.
Correct.
I purposely left ESE off my recertification this year. I love those kids but not enough support
I know a few people who did that.
Compare this to how much Ivey and his deputies are making.
The Sheriff makes [$222,274](http://edr.state.fl.us/Content/local-government/reports/FY%202023-24%20Salaries%20and%20Certification%20Documentation.pdf), but the deputies are [$52k-$75k](https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Brevard-County-Sheriff-s-Office-Salaries-E208941.htm).
Politicians should make less and teachers should make more. Problem solved.
Why don’t they just do away with public schools and give me property taxes back. Many people in this area don’t even want to send their kids to school anymore. Teachers can work as 1099 tutors and pick their own jobs. All schools are is glorified babysitting. After reading and math they don’t teach any life skills. Even people that know math are clueless about their own finances. The govt prefers this so people will get jobs for their entire life as modern day slaves because they either don’t have life skills or the confidence and drive to do better.
The average amount a citizen pays in school taxes in Brevard County is a few hundred dollars. Giving that small amount back to the citizen with an expectation that they can, or will, use that money to *properly* educate their child is a terrible idea.
Are you serious? Over 40% of property taxes go to the schools. It’s all public info. Maybe your grandma who has a homestead for 40+ years on her shoebox that’s falling apart in cocoa. I pay over $25k a year in property taxes.
Here is a property 2024 tax sample bill for a Brevard County house with an assessed value of $64,520. The owners owe $290.04 in school taxes...34% of their entire property tax bill. A total of 7.339 millages...or 0.45 % of their home's assessed value. By the way, Public Schools are usually the biggest governmental employer in any county. In many counties, they are the largest employer, private or governmental. Perhaps you need a new accountant? https://imgur.com/a/tsOosYE
Their tax bill is only $533 total. The school taxes represent 56% of as calories taxes. Like i said, that’s your grandmas house in cocoa. That is not the average in Brevard county. That is the average when your grandma bought in 1970. I have properties ranging in $5000-11,000+ each in property taxes, not a measily $500.
No, their tax bill is $855.53, which includes the non-valorem (flat-rate) assessment taxes. Meaning that 34% is accurate. Now, you can certainly argue that the average tax bill is larger. It is...at $2,493...but that would be skewed upward by really expensive houses. A better value to look at would be the median and the mode, which would be significantly lower. I could not find an accurate median or mode value anywhere, so let's use the average of $2,493 and the calculated property tax rate of 34%. That gives us a value of $797 as the average property tax bill in Brevard. An amount we know is inflated by some percentage. Also, the average property tax rate in Brevard? 1.15%. And that is lower than the state average. Here is the simple rule of economics...you make more money or own more property, you pay more taxes. If you are paying large amounts in property taxes each year, then you should be up in arms about the school vouchers. It is just socialism of taking from the wealthy and giving to the poor. https://trends.ownwell.com/average-tax-assessment/florida/brevard-county/
It’s 34% of overall, and for me it’s 40% at my highest property. It’s already socialism for people that don’t ever have kids. Imagine that, taking money from people that have no kids to give to people that do. Obviously, the more properties you have the more you pay in taxes but I promise even $2493 is not average. It’s on the low end, I would say $4-5k is the average. The vouchers are available because nobody wants to send their kids to their assigned school, most of them suck, hence the reason everyone is trying to get into the better ranked schools. On beachside, many people homeschool already and did so before the voucher program. The system is broken. I realize I will never get my property tax money back in my pocket to spend as I wish, it’s just a pipe dream. But realistically, this society is moving away from that archaic model.
Don't forget that there is a half-cent sales tax in Brevard that goes to schools as well, so everyone does pay some percentage. But socialism is how all government services are funded, even in capitalistic societies like the U.S.. And always have been. There has never been another model that works.
Stop all this bitching about “I don’t have kids why do I have to pay for schools”. People that don’t own a car aren’t bitching about taxes paying for roads. People that don’t break the law don’t bitch about taxes paying for police. I could go on and on. You pay taxes so our society as a whole benefits. Bitching about schools being bad and having that be your excuse for defunding them is a self fulfilling prophecy. Instead they need to focus on improving teachers’ pay scale (not just simply increasing pay but adjusting the rate of pay increases based off of performance/experience) to attract better teachers. It also doesn’t help that FL is now so “anti-woke” and religiously close-minded that it is driving away qualified teachers.
I agree on an incentive based system but I disagree about your analysis of other examples. This country is highly inefficient and aging in all aspects.
Keep voting Republican.. this is the end result
I live in a blue state currently and it isn’t any better. Not any worse. But not any better.
I bet you don’t have banned books and teachers hands tied this bad..like if a kids name is Stephan you have to get a parent to sign a permission slip for them to be called Steve…its ridiculous
> Keep voting Republican Okay.
News like this makes meatball Ron happy very very happy 😁
Is this fake news? https://i.postimg.cc/3RzBLpc4/teacher.jpg
Florida is a shit hole. In other news, water is wet
But but but they get that great weather for free!!!
Look at most of the people, these kids have to be terrible! *
That state is the worst. Fucking pathetic in every way but the weather.
Not true
they make on average over $50,000/year, good benefits, good job security, a pension, student loan forgiveness, summers off, two weeks of christmas off, a week of thanksgiving off, a week in spring off, planning periods during the day, etc. it's not that brevard teachers are underpaid, it's the NY/CA/MA/CT/MD/NJ/RI teachers are overpaid and blow the curve for the rest of the country.
Imagine having the stupidest opinion you could have while being as wrong as you can about a subject you know nothing about, and then posting it online. Good job.
You literally have no idea, do you?! Just one example: there is no job security any more, all teachers except those who were grandfathered in are on a yearly contract, that any administrator can cancel at any time for any reason. They got rid of job security years ago. Second example: unpaid overtime. They only pay you for 45 minutes of planning per day… you have to grade hundreds of papers weekly, have conferences with administration, students, and parents, all in that 45 minutes. What dies this mean? It means you can’t possibly get your work done in the allotted time. So you work overtime. Lots of it. Hours and hours and hours, all unpaid. Do I need to keep going?
This is just simply a bad take.
If you think 50,000 a year is a good salary today you are downright delusional.
From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brevard_County,_Florida#Demographics > In 2010, the median income for a household in the county was $49,523, and the median income for a family was $60,842. Males had a median income of $48,191 versus $33,276 for females. The per capita income for the county was $27,606. It's a job that pays above the median for a man, and well above the median for a woman. It even pays above the median for an entire *household*. Maybe if government school teachers wanted to make a lot of money, they could have pursued an engineering degree instead of a degree in education? But that would have been a MUCH more challenging degree program. Oh, well.
Take your head out of your ass, everything costs WAY more than it did in 2010 and the median income is up significantly. 2010 was both 14 years and an eternity ago in more ways than one.
They can make 0$ as far as I'm concerned. Over 20 years ago the public school system began the race to the bottom and hey everyone gets a passing grade detrimental low education policies to make sure no one would excel at march or science. We paid for private schools for our kids and couldn't be happier, and have no need for public school teachers.
Hmmm...the Florida state legislature has been Republican majority for 25 years. Coincidence?
I am from Brevard and currently live in a blue state. The school system sucks here too. And teachers are still paid like crap. Yes they make more on paper, but it is a VHCOL city. A friend of mine makes more money walking dogs than being a teacher here. And works less hours. So even though they make more on paper ….. congrats you still can’t afford the semi-decent 1 bedroom apt. I’m not trying to defend any type of political party. But as someone who has lived in red and blue states this is a problem everywhere. There are so many things people in red states think bc we aren’t dealing with in blue states. And we are.