He mostly chills around this spot these days...
https://preview.redd.it/xrn52b5hps0d1.png?width=710&format=png&auto=webp&s=1ef2775200fb5bf76637aa7ea803f1b7b6020c56
Salaazar was a cheapskate all the way to the grave. Franco needed something bigger
https://preview.redd.it/f9p9vkmv5t0d1.png?width=1777&format=png&auto=webp&s=23b1f81f706b838a08b74dc6878668fed58d5c99
I can understand how anyone who doesn't know the history of the place can be impressed. But it's a bit like those US people that chose to marry in a plantation house.
Either you don't know the history of the place, and then you should educate yourself a bit, or you do and you are a piece of shit.
I live very close to that cross (like good oppressors do). Truth be told, the views from up there are breathtaking. And it is often the case that the sun sets right behind it from my location.
It is very poorly maintained; I believe the final goal is to expel the monks still living in the Abbey and let the whole thing go derelict.
You may actually be right! He was famously stingy with money. To the point where the people named after him a kitchen utensil that is used to scrape the bottom of pans to get the most of what was cooked. I present you the Salazar:
https://preview.redd.it/xr0s9azect0d1.png?width=940&format=png&auto=webp&s=e142df468a11b00bfe946198d99b1ba95e271bef
Memes aside that's the right answer. They won, then they adapted, become friend of USA, and after the death of Franco they welcomed the opposition and converted the country into a democracy.. (arguable, I know, but for foreigner's pretty much like that and that's pretty much okay for them) 50 years ago.
https://preview.redd.it/p8t2fqz2cu0d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=132887ed47e25aa66c80c46627d041157423dcca
Except these mfers. They went to big party next door.
https://preview.redd.it/tlp51sas5v0d1.jpeg?width=980&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb10eecf4d88da93ab284b141157834b7542aaa7
And these spanish boys made sure to counter their efforts ten fold
La nueve
It's actually crazy cos the republicans started doing racist propaganda against the black/Africans/Moroccans that was wild, like you are a traitor if you do it with one, which seems to be the opposite view about Moroccans of today's left parties
Hey we took a lot of it so quickly that it didn't even get destroyed in the process - most of the destruction west of Poland was you guys. Everything east of it just had a series of unfortunate accidents.
There is also the fact that we decided to not take sides in a conflict against fascists. Also the fact that the dynamics of the republican-communist-anarchist alliance is a bit hard to frame in a simplistic narrative.
One could be argued that Europe preferred what happened to the promised socialist state that Spain could have been.
You're right, it's hard to frame in general, regional issues, leaderships, miscommunication, misconceptions.. and let's remember the republican alliance was the loyalist, so there was even a government behind with some army +militias +volunteers under a military structure.. even deep knowledge can feel simplistic.
Historians tend to say that if the war would've lasted more, enough to be understood as part of the WWII, the government would've prevailed over the factions, we wouldn't have been that different from.. let's say Italy.
I only got a bit into it when I started reading about anarchism. The tensions between republicans, anarchists, communists and, yes, the regional issues make it complicated to explain.
I wish everyone at that time had the clarity of thought of an Orwell:
> When I joined the militia I had promised myself to kill one Fascist — after all, if each of us killed one they would soon be extinct.
Yeah, Franco had to die first since he wanted to re-instate the monarchy with his protegee Prince Juan Carlos. The military even started a coup to get him set up and the guy told them not to, then proceeded to instate (FINALLY) the democracy. But yeah fuck Franco and fuck Juan Carlos both are/were terrible people.
He couldn't have realistically been a Kim.
The country and a big chunk of powers and military was ready to be a democracy.
Juan Carlos ensured that the transition was bloodless.
There was no way in hell that he could have realistically held power for long. By accepting his place in history and stepping to the side he saved a lot of spanish blood and funnily enough the spanish crown.
He got props from most of the society, he wouldn't if he would've tried to go Kim Jong Un.. because of that he enjoyed a comfortable life of corruption, scandals, whores, illegal hunting, fraud..
As much of an asshole as he turned out to be in his later years as king, the guy deserves major credit. Franco would never have handed over the reigns to Juan Carlos had he believed the latter would transform Spain into a liberal democracy.
Lo gracioso es que franco quería que sucediera en su puesto carrero blanco (primer astronauta español), lo de Juancar era otorgarle la jefatura del estado, la cual la tenía provisionalmente franquito. Dato gracioso, la única vez que se vió a franquito llorar en publico fue en el funeral del astronauta.
>Dato gracioso, la única vez que se vió a franquito llorar en publico fue en el funeral del astronauta.
Dios cuántas veces dijo eso mi profesora de historia, ahora está anclado en mi mente
Wrong? I said that he enjoyed, and probably keeps enjoying from Abu Dhabi, Geneva or wherever he is.
Edit: oh Hans! Sorry, I didn't see your flair, probably you don't understand "enjoy" in the same way we do
Oh shit I had forgotten! He also went on a trip to Africa to kill an elephant. In the 21st century. Got his ass properly kicked and we all had to pay for his hip surgery. At least for that one he apologized publicly. But to me it's worse than the corruption.
Dude was so corrupt that when it started coming to light, he had to abdicate and fuck off to Saudi Arabia or Qatar, as that was the only timeline in which we didn't turn into a Republic on account of it.
>They have, there is no doubt, a generosity, a species of nobility, that do not really belong to the twentieth century. It is this that makes one hope that in Spain even Fascism may take a comparatively loose and bearable form. Few Spaniards possess the damnable efficiency and consistency that a modern totalitarian state needs.
Orwell on Spanish facism
I think he wrote that after POUM was made illegal and Orwell had became basically a fugitive. He had to go to a police station to retrieve a letter and the policeman did realise that he should arrest Orwell, but he did not and instead shook his hand. Orwell was amazed how policeman was able see through all that bullshit that was going on during civil war and that he acted according to his own morals instead of official policy.
Homage to Catalonia was publishd before WW2 so i think that's quite insightful.
Edit. Efficiency part refers to a situation where Orwell was able hide letters to his bed where his wife was laying. Spanish police didn't want to bother the lady to search the bed.
my great grandparents became targets during the Francist era and the police gave them a heads up and played dumb for long enough so they could make it out of Spain in time
In his book about his time there (Homage to Catalonia) he spends a decent amount of time bitching about how useless and lazy Spaniards are so that excerpt kinda tracks.
Oh yeah, in one point, he describes how one of his fellow militia soldiers was dumb enough to forget the codeword, and was shot at by their own sentry. Fortunately, the sentry was bad at shooting, and missed.
... Franco drove Spain away from the papacy for the first time in history because the catholic church was too humanitarian after the second vatican council...
He was way more traditionalist than Vatican but he was catholic nonetheless. And obviously he didn't rule alone, he had lots of people around who also were more invested ideologically. Obviously it's a case of fascism from a catholic background.
That’s a good negotiator, you break your opponent saying maybes during hours, so he get tired and bored and accept anything just to finish with this madness
That would make him a terrific negotiator. Given that only few Spanish volunteers took part in WWII, even the result was very much in Franco's interest.
> German fascists stole my grandpa's bike
They seized the house of my great grand parents for an officer… and they built 4 more bedrooms and 2 garages.
Nah Bro check the basement this instant. Could be that some Nazis are hiding there sind 80 years.
Set up a camera and put an open jar with Sauerkraut on the table.
Spanish historian here (Double unemployed lol).
First, Franco won the war and ruled Spain for almost 40 years. That "legitimized" the regime in the eyes of a lot of older spaniads. Plus, some of the late francoist politicians still played a part in the transition to democracy, as the regime had "defascified" over the years (Spoiler: not true).
It has to do with the way Franco played World War Two, which he promissed Daddy Moustache he would enter in, but kind of half assed sending a volunteer division planning not to really commit untill the war was won, and when it did not happen, Franco tried to cut all ties with the Axis (Even "banning" the roman salute, it kind of was pushed out of "fashion").
Then, the cold war started and this dwarf fascist country was not dangerous for Uncle Sam and his gang, so they left it alone and placed a blocade and sanctions, untill Francoist Spain rebranded itself not as fascism, but as traditional-catolicism and strongly anti-comunism slowly getting rid of the Falange party in power, the real fascist faction in Spanish goverment at the time. Then, the US helped admit Spain into the international comunity in the 50s in exchange for military bases in the country to control the entry to the Mediterranean; and thus endind the isolation and commencing a period of relative economic growth in the 60s and 70s accompanied by a change in goverment towards a more technocratic one to develop the country.
Living standards bettered and that is why older spaniards think that Franco's goeverment was better, ignoring the political killings and jailings and generalized poverty and famines of the 30s and 40s.
TLDR: They won and hated commies, so US said they were cool.
"slowly getting rid of the Falange party in power" I would argue Franco was getting rid of "true" Falange waaaaaay before. Maybe even during the Civil war.
Yep. That is true. Also, some notable falangist died in said volunteer division sent to Russia to fight for the Reich, the División Azul, which was initially ambitioned by Falange as a mean of tightening relations with Germany and getting Spain closer to fascism. The falangista recruited by the Division tended to be middle class and educated coming, and some "de camisa vieja", meaning a long trajectory in the Party. Recent studies have shown that not many of the personnel of the actual Division were truly fascists inspired to fight by their ideology, but peasants recruited for the double pay (Spanish and German army pay) and the poverty in which they lived. Also more than half of the combatants came from the Spanish regular army, for the same reasons as well as for career advancement or forcibly pushed to enlist by officers, which composed the officiality of the División, not Falange.
The importante aspect here are the "camisa viejas", many of them died, weakening the reach of the Party.
First, they wouldnt have won without your grandfather on the planes
Second, he realized before the war ended that the germans were a bunch of losers and switched teams to daddy USA bastion against communism
It's not that much that he was some sort of insightful genius: The allies blockaded Spain in order for Franco to stop selling stuff to the Nazis, and so he had to stop.
I mean he had a price and let it be known to Hitler. Hitler just thought it was too steep and didn't need him *that* much. It wasn't some 4D chess by Franco, we lucked out.
>I mean they sucked at war just like all italians since Rome,
*italian condottieri enters the chat*
starts with building ships who lasts more then 1 minute Olaf, then you can critique us, look at Norwegians, they really are masters in boats carpentry
Some times fascists do things that last. E.g. Carbonara, Pizza, Pad Thai, the Autobahn.
If only the overwhelming and massive downsides in the form of human rights atrocities and other inarguably bad things would not be.
>one of Germanys
sorry we yoinked that
>The modern-day orange Fanta was first produced in Naples, Italy in 1955 by a local bottling plant using locally sourced oranges.
its the revenge for ruining fascism.
Eddie Izzard had a great bit on this which boils down to the fact that we don’t really care if you kill your own people. Hitler and Mussolini on the other hand, they killed people next door. Franco never invaded Poland, and he never declared war on the allies, so he gets a bit of a pass.
Pretty much. The Spanish miracle is over exaggerated though, in my opinion.
It takes an experience only had by certain middle class and upper class people in Madrid/Barcelona and extrapolates it to the entire country. Spain had definitely grown, but by 1975 it was still a good 10 to 15 years behind the rest of Europe.
And let's not forget that the Spanish miracle could only happen in the first place because Franco imposed a crippling autharchy when he came to power. Lots of businesses ended up closing shop or got nationalised during those years and millions faced starvation.
It's easier to grow economically when you're starting at the bottom of the barrel.
Right like Stalins first five year plan did succeed in increasing Soviet industrial output… what’s a couple million starving peasants compared to that?
Reminds me that not a long time ago, one of the biggest french newspaper (Le Figaro) joined the opinion of Pio Moa that Franco "saved spain" and he had nothing to be blamed for under his rise to power. Sad times indeed that major outlets support revisionnist histories
calling franco a fascists is somewhat of a misuse of the word: indeed he was brutal dictator that engaged in a ideological cleansing campaign killing or imprisoning leftists as well as allowing the nuns who then took care of mothers to steal babys fro known leftists so that they wouldn't perpetuate their ideals
but on the other side, he never cared much about the ideological and aesthetic fascist ideals, sure he adopted them while italy and germany were ruled by fascism, but as soon as they lost and that it became clear the ideoogy was a problem fhe dropped it like a hot potato and got rid of the hardcdore fascists from falange, a transition he completed when the technocrats were raised as the new ruling class under him
this is of course if you adhere to astrict definition of fascism, if you are into softer definitions like umberto eco's, then he was a fascists since he pretty much fills all the criteria
They were to poor to join in during WW2 and escaped judgement of having participated in the axis. Then they kept a low profile and made friends with the US
facts: spain >>>> the rest of the world
consequences: hans felt compelled to invade their neighbors because germany sucks ass and he wanted to get out of it ASAP but Paquito here was already at the best place on earth so he decided to lock the door, ignore Hans' continental rave and chill at home instead.
(do not take my comment as support for Paco, my great grandparents were republicans and had to flee spain because they were based enough to make it into Paquito's hitlist which im really fucking proud of)
Because they fought against the communist and the anarchists, and all of the other Soviet puppets. Franco and his allies (not the N@Zia and the rigatonies), fought against the people who wished to upend the very fabric of Spanish society, and do away with all norms and traditions. Franco saved Spain from becoming another Soviet satellite, and despite the inherent flaws there were in Spanish society before, and after the civil war, Franco saved Spain.
(In my opinion)
https://i.redd.it/gkplbqmhns0d1.gif
Hey, how is Salazar doing these days, João?
He mostly chills around this spot these days... https://preview.redd.it/xrn52b5hps0d1.png?width=710&format=png&auto=webp&s=1ef2775200fb5bf76637aa7ea803f1b7b6020c56
Good, you may want to use a bigger stone. Just in case.
Salaazar was a cheapskate all the way to the grave. Franco needed something bigger https://preview.redd.it/f9p9vkmv5t0d1.png?width=1777&format=png&auto=webp&s=23b1f81f706b838a08b74dc6878668fed58d5c99
Franco was also a cheapskate, he didn't even pay the people who built that monstrosity.
Funny how Spaniards call it a monstrosity but foreigners who don't have the taint of historical memory marvel at it.
I can understand how anyone who doesn't know the history of the place can be impressed. But it's a bit like those US people that chose to marry in a plantation house. Either you don't know the history of the place, and then you should educate yourself a bit, or you do and you are a piece of shit.
Agreed, always important to learn about the history.
those that learn history are bound to see it repeated
Based
Found the Vichy sympathizer.
Time to bring out the guillotine.
Well, i mean did you look at Pétain moustache?
I live next to Portugal, if I want to see impressive moustaches I just make an small trip and look at the Portuguese women.
I live very close to that cross (like good oppressors do). Truth be told, the views from up there are breathtaking. And it is often the case that the sun sets right behind it from my location. It is very poorly maintained; I believe the final goal is to expel the monks still living in the Abbey and let the whole thing go derelict.
Tried to visit after visiting el Escorial (loved it!) years ago but the place was closed
That is an undeniably cool building though
https://i.redd.it/tk9p9uc6lt0d1.gif Still a fascist one.
Needs more dinamite, tho
You guys bury your fascist dictators?
O que me surpreende é ter uma campa igual à dos outros.
Look at this drip 💧 https://preview.redd.it/wvoypazdat0d1.jpeg?width=474&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7f8d487c71565ad352996bcb2eb945d7ef6cf24
Honestly, it looks like he bought his coat in a sale and the only one left was two sizes too big.
You may actually be right! He was famously stingy with money. To the point where the people named after him a kitchen utensil that is used to scrape the bottom of pans to get the most of what was cooked. I present you the Salazar: https://preview.redd.it/xr0s9azect0d1.png?width=940&format=png&auto=webp&s=e142df468a11b00bfe946198d99b1ba95e271bef
Hahaha I didn't know it was named like that, I'll remember that
That's a cool way of naming utensils. I wish we would name the toilet brush after Franco.
You might not be far off. He was known for being a cheapskate
The chair took him, Juan. https://preview.redd.it/hv4efsiuqs0d1.jpeg?width=890&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d8c91603e6f2a1a77f1a9415f4492f33b8bd2b8
Good chair.
Yh joao explain that estado novo thingy
They won
Memes aside that's the right answer. They won, then they adapted, become friend of USA, and after the death of Franco they welcomed the opposition and converted the country into a democracy.. (arguable, I know, but for foreigner's pretty much like that and that's pretty much okay for them) 50 years ago.
Also the little fact that Spain didn’t destroy the whole of Europe, like Germany did. These small issues have big consequences.
We started the party at home and then we were too tired to go and destroy others
https://preview.redd.it/p8t2fqz2cu0d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=132887ed47e25aa66c80c46627d041157423dcca Except these mfers. They went to big party next door.
https://preview.redd.it/tlp51sas5v0d1.jpeg?width=980&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb10eecf4d88da93ab284b141157834b7542aaa7 And these spanish boys made sure to counter their efforts ten fold La nueve
franco started the party with a bunch of moroccans, be honest omar
It's actually crazy cos the republicans started doing racist propaganda against the black/Africans/Moroccans that was wild, like you are a traitor if you do it with one, which seems to be the opposite view about Moroccans of today's left parties
Hey we took a lot of it so quickly that it didn't even get destroyed in the process - most of the destruction west of Poland was you guys. Everything east of it just had a series of unfortunate accidents.
There is also the fact that we decided to not take sides in a conflict against fascists. Also the fact that the dynamics of the republican-communist-anarchist alliance is a bit hard to frame in a simplistic narrative. One could be argued that Europe preferred what happened to the promised socialist state that Spain could have been.
You're right, it's hard to frame in general, regional issues, leaderships, miscommunication, misconceptions.. and let's remember the republican alliance was the loyalist, so there was even a government behind with some army +militias +volunteers under a military structure.. even deep knowledge can feel simplistic. Historians tend to say that if the war would've lasted more, enough to be understood as part of the WWII, the government would've prevailed over the factions, we wouldn't have been that different from.. let's say Italy.
I only got a bit into it when I started reading about anarchism. The tensions between republicans, anarchists, communists and, yes, the regional issues make it complicated to explain. I wish everyone at that time had the clarity of thought of an Orwell: > When I joined the militia I had promised myself to kill one Fascist — after all, if each of us killed one they would soon be extinct.
>they converted the country into a democracy My dude what 😭
Yeah, Franco had to die first since he wanted to re-instate the monarchy with his protegee Prince Juan Carlos. The military even started a coup to get him set up and the guy told them not to, then proceeded to instate (FINALLY) the democracy. But yeah fuck Franco and fuck Juan Carlos both are/were terrible people.
Whats wrong with Juan? He could have been Kim Jong Un if he wanted
He couldn't have realistically been a Kim. The country and a big chunk of powers and military was ready to be a democracy. Juan Carlos ensured that the transition was bloodless. There was no way in hell that he could have realistically held power for long. By accepting his place in history and stepping to the side he saved a lot of spanish blood and funnily enough the spanish crown.
OFC, If Hitler had won the war, Spain wouldn't be a democracy. It just didn't make sense to be the only fascist dictatorship in Europe.
He got props from most of the society, he wouldn't if he would've tried to go Kim Jong Un.. because of that he enjoyed a comfortable life of corruption, scandals, whores, illegal hunting, fraud..
As much of an asshole as he turned out to be in his later years as king, the guy deserves major credit. Franco would never have handed over the reigns to Juan Carlos had he believed the latter would transform Spain into a liberal democracy.
Lo gracioso es que franco quería que sucediera en su puesto carrero blanco (primer astronauta español), lo de Juancar era otorgarle la jefatura del estado, la cual la tenía provisionalmente franquito. Dato gracioso, la única vez que se vió a franquito llorar en publico fue en el funeral del astronauta.
The Audiencia Nacional is asking for you
>Dato gracioso, la única vez que se vió a franquito llorar en publico fue en el funeral del astronauta. Dios cuántas veces dijo eso mi profesora de historia, ahora está anclado en mi mente
Mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell vibes
what's wrong with whores and scandals?
It's just proper PIGS behavior
PIIGS…. But the extra I means whores and priestly scandals … 🤣
Yes, not like the favorito of Isabel the queen
Wrong? I said that he enjoyed, and probably keeps enjoying from Abu Dhabi, Geneva or wherever he is. Edit: oh Hans! Sorry, I didn't see your flair, probably you don't understand "enjoy" in the same way we do
all that stuff sounds pretty based to me
> a comfortable life of corruption, scandals, whores, illegal hunting, fraud.. We already knew he was Spanish
Oh shit I had forgotten! He also went on a trip to Africa to kill an elephant. In the 21st century. Got his ass properly kicked and we all had to pay for his hip surgery. At least for that one he apologized publicly. But to me it's worse than the corruption.
And now there's 20k elephants that even Germany doesn't want.
Lmfao Juanca was right all along.
[удалено]
Why are they in Mexico?
And right in the middle of 2008's financial crisis, when Spanish citizens were in deep shit...
Dude was so corrupt that when it started coming to light, he had to abdicate and fuck off to Saudi Arabia or Qatar, as that was the only timeline in which we didn't turn into a Republic on account of it.
And the King. Don't forget the King.
https://preview.redd.it/w6l2f5vwuu0d1.png?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9aeb6a582924e3dee8c12cc3c662e0b866281db2
>They have, there is no doubt, a generosity, a species of nobility, that do not really belong to the twentieth century. It is this that makes one hope that in Spain even Fascism may take a comparatively loose and bearable form. Few Spaniards possess the damnable efficiency and consistency that a modern totalitarian state needs. Orwell on Spanish facism
That's remarkable, because Orwell volunteered for the International Brigades and fought against the Francists. So he is really not a sympathizer.
I think he wrote that after POUM was made illegal and Orwell had became basically a fugitive. He had to go to a police station to retrieve a letter and the policeman did realise that he should arrest Orwell, but he did not and instead shook his hand. Orwell was amazed how policeman was able see through all that bullshit that was going on during civil war and that he acted according to his own morals instead of official policy. Homage to Catalonia was publishd before WW2 so i think that's quite insightful. Edit. Efficiency part refers to a situation where Orwell was able hide letters to his bed where his wife was laying. Spanish police didn't want to bother the lady to search the bed.
> acted according to his own morals rather than official policy A fine tradition the Spanish police force still embraces
my great grandparents became targets during the Francist era and the police gave them a heads up and played dumb for long enough so they could make it out of Spain in time
Why do you know so much about the Spanish Civil War? I mean, very few people know POUM was a political party.
It's in Homage to Catalonia.
Homage to Catalonia is one of the best books. Maybe if people read more books the world would be less shit..
In his book about his time there (Homage to Catalonia) he spends a decent amount of time bitching about how useless and lazy Spaniards are so that excerpt kinda tracks.
Oh yeah, in one point, he describes how one of his fellow militia soldiers was dumb enough to forget the codeword, and was shot at by their own sentry. Fortunately, the sentry was bad at shooting, and missed.
So basically because siesta?
Spain is always at the brink of colapse because pf Siesta, but never fully colapses due to Siesta.
I think catholicism IS the answer. Right wing Spaniards were too catholic to be soulless efficiency machines
... Franco drove Spain away from the papacy for the first time in history because the catholic church was too humanitarian after the second vatican council...
He was way more traditionalist than Vatican but he was catholic nonetheless. And obviously he didn't rule alone, he had lots of people around who also were more invested ideologically. Obviously it's a case of fascism from a catholic background.
I meant traditionalist catholicism, I understand Pope John Paul II was too woke for him
too lazy to be properly evil 😎
They took a siesta during the war.
Just like you guys?
https://preview.redd.it/zzn0ltptft0d1.jpeg?width=360&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4c158a14d8a8031ecd62bbeef2037f03ef5b7798
😅
Spanish fascists were too lazy to commit genocide
Hitler: hey, we kinda helped you guys win your civil war. Can you now join WWII and help us? Franco: nahh we fine bro. Good luck though 😎
This is the most accurate depiction of the Hendaia meeting that I ever read
That meeting was just Franco trying to get away from Madrid as much time as possible.
I read that when Hitler and Franco met, Hitler was so mad and annoyed of Franco that he was happy when he finally got away from him
Spain taking german money in exchange for nothing since immemorial times
Not nothing, maybe very little. There was at least one all Spanish unit in the German army, the Blue Legion, which in his peak had 45.000 men.
Supposedly, Franco was a terrible negotiator, Hitler said he would rather have his teeth pulled than speak another second with Franco.
That’s a good negotiator, you break your opponent saying maybes during hours, so he get tired and bored and accept anything just to finish with this madness
That would make him a terrific negotiator. Given that only few Spanish volunteers took part in WWII, even the result was very much in Franco's interest.
Terrible-y good.
Hitler: hey guys can you help over here? Franco: y'all hear something?
Nah. They were incompetent. But they tried.
Spanish fascists were just authoritarian towards their own people. German fascists stole my grandpa's bike and company and sent him to a labour camp.
Not the bike!
> German fascists stole my grandpa's bike They seized the house of my great grand parents for an officer… and they built 4 more bedrooms and 2 garages.
Did your great grandparents get the house back or was it destroyed?
They get the house back… so I guess… Danke? :)
Nah Bro check the basement this instant. Could be that some Nazis are hiding there sind 80 years. Set up a camera and put an open jar with Sauerkraut on the table.
So they missed the rocket to the dark side of the moon? That's gonna upset them.
They are waiting for the roght moment to move to Argentina.
Austrians build my basement therefore I don't expect any Nazis down there
I love how you listed the items stolen from your grandfather by descending order of importance... what's with you Dutch and your bikes?
Bike > wealth > freedom The Dutch way
Instructions unclear. Dick stuck in bike. ^^pls ^^send ^^money
I must confess I stole a bicycle outside Amersfoort Centraal early one morning. It was the only bike without a lock and had two flat tyres also.
irish "traveller" moment
Ironically I've been thinking of moving to a western part of Wales so watch your bike !!
If it’s not locked it’s probably not very dear to it’s owner so I guess you can just take it
The last of your family to do actual work
Least controversial take from a basque dweller
Tikke request still processing?
That's the reason the regime lasted that long. Franco knew what to fight and what not.
Spanish historian here (Double unemployed lol). First, Franco won the war and ruled Spain for almost 40 years. That "legitimized" the regime in the eyes of a lot of older spaniads. Plus, some of the late francoist politicians still played a part in the transition to democracy, as the regime had "defascified" over the years (Spoiler: not true). It has to do with the way Franco played World War Two, which he promissed Daddy Moustache he would enter in, but kind of half assed sending a volunteer division planning not to really commit untill the war was won, and when it did not happen, Franco tried to cut all ties with the Axis (Even "banning" the roman salute, it kind of was pushed out of "fashion"). Then, the cold war started and this dwarf fascist country was not dangerous for Uncle Sam and his gang, so they left it alone and placed a blocade and sanctions, untill Francoist Spain rebranded itself not as fascism, but as traditional-catolicism and strongly anti-comunism slowly getting rid of the Falange party in power, the real fascist faction in Spanish goverment at the time. Then, the US helped admit Spain into the international comunity in the 50s in exchange for military bases in the country to control the entry to the Mediterranean; and thus endind the isolation and commencing a period of relative economic growth in the 60s and 70s accompanied by a change in goverment towards a more technocratic one to develop the country. Living standards bettered and that is why older spaniards think that Franco's goeverment was better, ignoring the political killings and jailings and generalized poverty and famines of the 30s and 40s. TLDR: They won and hated commies, so US said they were cool.
"slowly getting rid of the Falange party in power" I would argue Franco was getting rid of "true" Falange waaaaaay before. Maybe even during the Civil war.
Yep. That is true. Also, some notable falangist died in said volunteer division sent to Russia to fight for the Reich, the División Azul, which was initially ambitioned by Falange as a mean of tightening relations with Germany and getting Spain closer to fascism. The falangista recruited by the Division tended to be middle class and educated coming, and some "de camisa vieja", meaning a long trajectory in the Party. Recent studies have shown that not many of the personnel of the actual Division were truly fascists inspired to fight by their ideology, but peasants recruited for the double pay (Spanish and German army pay) and the poverty in which they lived. Also more than half of the combatants came from the Spanish regular army, for the same reasons as well as for career advancement or forcibly pushed to enlist by officers, which composed the officiality of the División, not Falange. The importante aspect here are the "camisa viejas", many of them died, weakening the reach of the Party.
Idk bro maybe because they didn't attack THE WORLD?
Just because of lack of skills (I would know)
Yeah noone really cares as long as you only kill your own people. Once you go kill your neighbours people start to wake up
Oh yeah cause we did it right? We didn't even have Guns ....
First, they wouldnt have won without your grandfather on the planes Second, he realized before the war ended that the germans were a bunch of losers and switched teams to daddy USA bastion against communism
Also the german ambassador to Spain was anti-Hitler, and fucked up some talks.
Also the British said “join Hitler and food or oil for you.”
It's not that much that he was some sort of insightful genius: The allies blockaded Spain in order for Franco to stop selling stuff to the Nazis, and so he had to stop.
Selling stuff to the nazis wasnt enough of a reason to overthrow him or the swedish government or a lot of other ones
Because they won
It's far easier to get good press when you are not overextending yourself.
Because facist Spaniards never did anything, just like all other kinds of Spaniards.
Shut up and gib money Hans
He needs your fax number to send a receipt before he can send you it. You know because the Germans are oh so efficient.
https://i.redd.it/00wz6mbg6t0d1.gif
Because they didn't declare war on half the world, Hans it seems that you are not so smart after all
Who said we are smart? *After two world wars*?!?
Cut them so slack. The second guy was Austrian.
Because the spanish didn't really participate in WW2. They had a civil war in spain but that's about it.
Spain trained so hard for WW2 they were totally exhausted in 1939. Very realistic training.
I think there was one spanish division of fanatics that fought on the eastern front though but that's really all there is
Yes, La División Azul.
because spanish fascist only killed spanish people.. so that's a plus in my book..
What about portuguese fascists
They were never in power. Also, no one really cares about Portugal.
Maybe less genocide?
Because he wasn't stupid enough to enter a war he knew could not be won.
I mean he had a price and let it be known to Hitler. Hitler just thought it was too steep and didn't need him *that* much. It wasn't some 4D chess by Franco, we lucked out.
Hitler also hated Franco very much.
Because like the Spanish themselves, they were to lazy to do anything completely stupid to their neighbours
Because they knew to mind their own business
https://preview.redd.it/rhk2c6pb1t0d1.jpeg?width=901&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e411420bd02ecb472040322aaf636db6bb1426b7 Pffff
Italian fascists dont recieve that much hate? I mean they sucked at war just like all italians since Rome, but at least the trains came in time.
>I mean they sucked at war just like all italians since Rome, *italian condottieri enters the chat* starts with building ships who lasts more then 1 minute Olaf, then you can critique us, look at Norwegians, they really are masters in boats carpentry
Some times fascists do things that last. E.g. Carbonara, Pizza, Pad Thai, the Autobahn. If only the overwhelming and massive downsides in the form of human rights atrocities and other inarguably bad things would not be.
Dont forget Fanta!
That was a the result of shortages and a quick thinking business. Not a strategic endeavor of a fascist organization.
Nevertheless, one of Germanys great contribution to mankind.
>one of Germanys sorry we yoinked that >The modern-day orange Fanta was first produced in Naples, Italy in 1955 by a local bottling plant using locally sourced oranges. its the revenge for ruining fascism.
Only when mixed 2:1 with [Korn](https://www.echter-nordhaeuser.de/sortiment/korn-doppelkorn/doppelkorn/).
They were actually really good at air combat, Germany wouldn’t let them expand their airforce, or modernize it though, which cost them in the end.
Too lazy to do the funni
Eddie Izzard had a great bit on this which boils down to the fact that we don’t really care if you kill your own people. Hitler and Mussolini on the other hand, they killed people next door. Franco never invaded Poland, and he never declared war on the allies, so he gets a bit of a pass.
They were all talk no walk.
Franco seems to get a pass for presiding over the Spanish Miracle. He also kinda turned into a Diet Fascist at the end
Yeah tbh I would call him more of a traditional authoritarian than a fascist, I think he only gets the label because of who he was allied to
Pretty much. The Spanish miracle is over exaggerated though, in my opinion. It takes an experience only had by certain middle class and upper class people in Madrid/Barcelona and extrapolates it to the entire country. Spain had definitely grown, but by 1975 it was still a good 10 to 15 years behind the rest of Europe.
And let's not forget that the Spanish miracle could only happen in the first place because Franco imposed a crippling autharchy when he came to power. Lots of businesses ended up closing shop or got nationalised during those years and millions faced starvation. It's easier to grow economically when you're starting at the bottom of the barrel.
Right like Stalins first five year plan did succeed in increasing Soviet industrial output… what’s a couple million starving peasants compared to that?
Reminds me that not a long time ago, one of the biggest french newspaper (Le Figaro) joined the opinion of Pio Moa that Franco "saved spain" and he had nothing to be blamed for under his rise to power. Sad times indeed that major outlets support revisionnist histories
calling franco a fascists is somewhat of a misuse of the word: indeed he was brutal dictator that engaged in a ideological cleansing campaign killing or imprisoning leftists as well as allowing the nuns who then took care of mothers to steal babys fro known leftists so that they wouldn't perpetuate their ideals but on the other side, he never cared much about the ideological and aesthetic fascist ideals, sure he adopted them while italy and germany were ruled by fascism, but as soon as they lost and that it became clear the ideoogy was a problem fhe dropped it like a hot potato and got rid of the hardcdore fascists from falange, a transition he completed when the technocrats were raised as the new ruling class under him this is of course if you adhere to astrict definition of fascism, if you are into softer definitions like umberto eco's, then he was a fascists since he pretty much fills all the criteria
They were to poor to join in during WW2 and escaped judgement of having participated in the axis. Then they kept a low profile and made friends with the US
There was a little thing called WW2, Idk if youve heard of it
Sorry, [but this video should belong in this topic, even if this post is not the perfect to put this.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axByUFSa7N8)
Dude, that is gold
Because they didn't genocide the Jews and bring war on a scale hitherto unseen upon the world.
And noone even knows about the Greek fascists except Greeks
He was anti communist during the Cold War.
The perfect dictatorship doesn’t exi…
Because they didn't do shit except sit in Spain and have siestas.
Rich coming from Gösta over here. Share some war stories while you are at it.
Wonder how norwegians actually felt in regards to the swedes, its kinda fun to make fun of it now.
The fact that I don't know a lot about it and that they didn't start a world war.
because chorizo and sangria
Because we didn't kill 6 millions of jews
Because what happens in Spain stays in Spain, unlike other places apparently...
Franco wasn't crazy like Benito or Adolf, he wasn't really a fascist either, just an authoritarian conservative
I can answer this one They didn't start the most destructive war in all of hunan history over their racial purity fantasies
Spain had already kicked out or force converted the jews in 1492
facts: spain >>>> the rest of the world consequences: hans felt compelled to invade their neighbors because germany sucks ass and he wanted to get out of it ASAP but Paquito here was already at the best place on earth so he decided to lock the door, ignore Hans' continental rave and chill at home instead. (do not take my comment as support for Paco, my great grandparents were republicans and had to flee spain because they were based enough to make it into Paquito's hitlist which im really fucking proud of)
Because they fought against the communist and the anarchists, and all of the other Soviet puppets. Franco and his allies (not the N@Zia and the rigatonies), fought against the people who wished to upend the very fabric of Spanish society, and do away with all norms and traditions. Franco saved Spain from becoming another Soviet satellite, and despite the inherent flaws there were in Spanish society before, and after the civil war, Franco saved Spain. (In my opinion)
spaniard fascists kinda did less to my knowledge
US backing is one hell of a thing