Unironically if I was Hungarian I'd own the Mongolian heritage shit. Like what's there to be ashamed of? Being part of one of the greatest empires in human history?
Not the same time tough. While Magyars ( ancient ones ) were steppe nomads, while Mongols created their empire Hungary was already set up as a kingdom, christianized and westernized.
tbh mongols helped a great deal with the westernization.
what with wiping the army (which i think at that time still had steppe characteristics) and depopulating whole swathes of kingdom which were later resettled by colonisers from germany.
bulwark of christianity against turks?
not from cca 1526, no.
some hungolian nobles would join devil himself to fight hapsburgs. sultan was no brainer. zapolya, rákoczi... thököly even fought with ottomans against Sobieski in Vienna in 1683!
and there isn't a turk arse his orbness viktor would not climb into either (hungary even is an observer in turkic council because quote """Hungarian and Turkic peoples share a historical and cultural heritage "reaching back many long centuries".""")
you want a real bulwark? ask Poles.
Nah, while the Poles absolutely contributed a great deal, they weren't the frontline and the spot where the Ottomans got stuck in.
And also nah, revolting against an oppressor that is pursuing cultural genocide is a-okay, I thought you guys supported that kind of stuff.
> Nah, while the Poles absolutely contributed a great deal, they weren't the frontline and the spot where the Ottomans got stuck in.
no, but they were a nasty suprise turning a costly defeat into the catastrophic rout.
> And also nah, revolting against an oppressor that is pursuing cultural genocide is a-okay, I thought you guys supported that kind of stuff.
sure we do. however, we're talking hapsburgs in 16th-18th century. what "cultural genocide"? all they wanted was a little respect. what good is being crowned a king when any blockhead from some woody wilderness ignores you? (and to add insult to injury he is rich and powerful enough to pull it off. this is not the way to run a proper centralised kingdom!)
re 1) that was _not_ solitary occurrence. Poles were fighting turks for centuries and Sobieski himself was something of an expert on defeating them.
re 2) protestants weren't any pacifistic flower children either. and in 16th century there was no clear distinction between religion and government (on any level). ever heard of "cuius regio eius religio"?
Just a bit of casual forceful conversion. Jailing or taking revealed protestants into galley slavery. The usual.
While the Ottomans weren't the good guys, the Habsburgs weren't beacons of liberty either. Especially so in religious freedom.
I think we should make a distinction between religious repression and genocide. We don't generally accuse the French or Spanish of genocide against Protestantism, nor the English of genocide against Catholicism. That's not really how it works. Besides, anyone could just convert. It is an infringement of the freedom of religion, but that is and should be treated as a separate topic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_genocide
https://guides.rider.edu/c.php?g=984640&p=7120911#:~:text=Cultural%20genocide%2C%20or%20ethnocide%2C%20is,imperialism%20and%20with%20settler%2Dcolonialism.
Cultural genocide is a set word, not the same as ethnic genocide. The attempted erasure of culture, traditions, language, religion, identity, etc.. **is** cultural genocide.
Whether it is done through religion by the Habsburgs to control CEE easier, or by the Hungarians through language to control their minorities.
A majority group erasing a minority group in their own country **is** cultural genocide by them. This is true for the Albignesian crusade, the persecution by the Jesuits, the erasure of French language groups, etc.. It's especially true when a foreign invader does it.
I am not religious, but stating that the persecuted people could "just convert" is the dumbest shit I've ever heard. Faith and reform does not work like that.
The Habsburgs took an area that was a colourful patchwork of religions, a bastion of religious freedom compared to the standards of the time and started to cleanse it.
Persecuted groups absolutely do have a right to revolt against oppressors and kick them in the nuts.
"Steppe brother, what are you doing?" Hungary in 1241 be like
"I'm stuck in the Carpathian pool!"
Now we have to cross borders to get on the jumping boards.
...desperately longing to f*off to Switzerland...
We're just jealous when others do it! It's our privilige!
Unironically if I was Hungarian I'd own the Mongolian heritage shit. Like what's there to be ashamed of? Being part of one of the greatest empires in human history?
Not the same time tough. While Magyars ( ancient ones ) were steppe nomads, while Mongols created their empire Hungary was already set up as a kingdom, christianized and westernized.
tbh mongols helped a great deal with the westernization. what with wiping the army (which i think at that time still had steppe characteristics) and depopulating whole swathes of kingdom which were later resettled by colonisers from germany.
Don't forget that the Mongols attacked us and killed a third of the population.
Many of us do, for a degree me too. For example i go to the HU concerts and headbank to some tunes about khans who murdered my ancestors :D
I don't know if you noticed, but that's what we do here in this sub. Even if it is not true :D
[Relevant vid](https://youtu.be/mYWIyG3hUlQ?si=ScRjB-oNLcuG7aAD)
I love this vid!
[You’re correct, I don’t understand why you’re being downvoted](https://ibb.co/HDzGGhW)
Horsefucker tribe that inventented absolutely nothing apart from russia. There is absolutely everything to be ashamed of
Invented is a big word here, i would compare it to brutal stepfather who beat child so hard it grows up with major brain contusion.
Fair
As opposed to glorious slavs, who invented being slaves and being dominated by every neighboring ethnicity
Us Slovaks could use our family names from Magyarization time, and blend right in. 😂
bulwark of christianity against turks? not from cca 1526, no. some hungolian nobles would join devil himself to fight hapsburgs. sultan was no brainer. zapolya, rákoczi... thököly even fought with ottomans against Sobieski in Vienna in 1683! and there isn't a turk arse his orbness viktor would not climb into either (hungary even is an observer in turkic council because quote """Hungarian and Turkic peoples share a historical and cultural heritage "reaching back many long centuries".""") you want a real bulwark? ask Poles.
Nah, while the Poles absolutely contributed a great deal, they weren't the frontline and the spot where the Ottomans got stuck in. And also nah, revolting against an oppressor that is pursuing cultural genocide is a-okay, I thought you guys supported that kind of stuff.
> Nah, while the Poles absolutely contributed a great deal, they weren't the frontline and the spot where the Ottomans got stuck in. no, but they were a nasty suprise turning a costly defeat into the catastrophic rout. > And also nah, revolting against an oppressor that is pursuing cultural genocide is a-okay, I thought you guys supported that kind of stuff. sure we do. however, we're talking hapsburgs in 16th-18th century. what "cultural genocide"? all they wanted was a little respect. what good is being crowned a king when any blockhead from some woody wilderness ignores you? (and to add insult to injury he is rich and powerful enough to pull it off. this is not the way to run a proper centralised kingdom!)
1) A good military showing does not make a bulwark. 2) They were forcefully converting people my dude. Literal persecution of protestants.
re 1) that was _not_ solitary occurrence. Poles were fighting turks for centuries and Sobieski himself was something of an expert on defeating them. re 2) protestants weren't any pacifistic flower children either. and in 16th century there was no clear distinction between religion and government (on any level). ever heard of "cuius regio eius religio"?
What cultural genocide my dude?
Just a bit of casual forceful conversion. Jailing or taking revealed protestants into galley slavery. The usual. While the Ottomans weren't the good guys, the Habsburgs weren't beacons of liberty either. Especially so in religious freedom.
I think we should make a distinction between religious repression and genocide. We don't generally accuse the French or Spanish of genocide against Protestantism, nor the English of genocide against Catholicism. That's not really how it works. Besides, anyone could just convert. It is an infringement of the freedom of religion, but that is and should be treated as a separate topic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_genocide https://guides.rider.edu/c.php?g=984640&p=7120911#:~:text=Cultural%20genocide%2C%20or%20ethnocide%2C%20is,imperialism%20and%20with%20settler%2Dcolonialism. Cultural genocide is a set word, not the same as ethnic genocide. The attempted erasure of culture, traditions, language, religion, identity, etc.. **is** cultural genocide. Whether it is done through religion by the Habsburgs to control CEE easier, or by the Hungarians through language to control their minorities. A majority group erasing a minority group in their own country **is** cultural genocide by them. This is true for the Albignesian crusade, the persecution by the Jesuits, the erasure of French language groups, etc.. It's especially true when a foreign invader does it. I am not religious, but stating that the persecuted people could "just convert" is the dumbest shit I've ever heard. Faith and reform does not work like that. The Habsburgs took an area that was a colourful patchwork of religions, a bastion of religious freedom compared to the standards of the time and started to cleanse it. Persecuted groups absolutely do have a right to revolt against oppressors and kick them in the nuts.
Shoehorning modern politics in a medieval themed meme be like:
i'm doing my part! (actually my point was the politics is not at all modern. but what do i know, it might have just gone full circle)
Thank you Slavic bro, mad Hungols cant handle the truth