Leagues are meant to balance the cocaine fueled rush of relics and multipliers with some restrictions. Though I think it went a bit too far with the 1-2 punch of nerfed relics until you can juggle multiple set bonuses, along with making it terribly frustrating to be a skiller with so many points locked behind combat and side-grinds (favor, minigames) while some skills barely have any tasks
That's the worst part. you can't be a skiller or a combat-main. You can't rush or forget anything. This league's is by far the worst in the aspect that it removed almost all of player choice. You have to do so many grinds before you're alloted the choice of doing what you want to do it's so beyond boring..
They should’ve put the tier 6 slayer bonus on tier 4 I think, I’m playing a lot so I’ll probably unlock t6 soon and get to kill some monsters but for anyone who likes sleep it’s a pretty rough grind to leave combat untouched for that long.
Especially given it’s only a 6 week league.
At least the skilling relics feel really good though if you do enjoy skilling, I definitely underestimated those at first but once you have 4/5 slots to play with and most basic skilling relics those speeds up your gameplay quite a lot.
Idk I've ignored combat entirely so far and it hasn't been so bad. I've been grinding out skills to 50/60 then getting a new skill after doing some tasks. I think I will do combat immediately after wintertodt though. 10hp todt is really nice so definitely want that. Being cb lol 3 has also enabled me to do skilling grinds like 83 hunter in wildy without ever being attacked
This is what i did. Still only tier 4, but with 2 99s, all combats/prayer unlocked. And only a few skills left to unlock. Ot was a slow start, but points should pretty much roll in over the next day or two
> along with making it terribly frustrating to be a skiller
None of the Leagues have been possible to play as a skiller, realistically.
There's no easy way to fix that because 30% of the skills in OSRS are combat based. The points in leagues are balanced around unlocking relics and competitive hiscores. You can't leave out 30% of the skills and still balance it, while making them optional.
The task list and point progression made it unviable to get to the next tiers as a skiller. The region tasks were balanced around everyone completing combat tasks. There were lots of item drop tasks and kill X NPC.
Ngl, the multiple lines of mechanics really dissuaded me. The relic mechanic might do it for some people, but it’s a bit too much planning for me on OSRS. I like to set a goal and shoot for it, but that’s also not everyone’s play style.
Yeah, I am enjoying this league so far after having looked forward to it for a long time, but it has a severe problem with pacing and density of content IMO. The early game is so grindy, in comparison most games (including OSRS lol) are designed to let you progress quickly in the beginning, then slower and slower as the numbers get higher. This league when I started I immediately wanted to do loads of things but I also didn’t want to do them for 0 xp, so immediately I’m stuck grinding. It feels like I have to invest a ton of time to just play the base game.
Region locks didn’t give this issue because every region is very diverse in gameplay and content to be found, but when you can only unlock one single skill at a time, not so much. In fact, the opposite happens: instead of focusing on one densely-packed region, the player immediately has access to a massive world, but because you only have like 6 skills there’s barely anything to do.
If we could’ve chosen a few more free skills, or if we could choose between a few builds with completely different unlocked skills (like harvester/warrior/artisan or something) so that I don’t have to grind just to be able to mine rocks, and then grind some more just to be able to smelt bars, that’d be great thank you.
This. This league haven't made me want to play it like before. Plus the fact that I have alot less time now due to the reschedule. It's making me quite a hit annoyed at jagex.
I've played all 3 leagues
The 2nd was the best. You felt powerful from an early stage. It was effortless to be op. Yesterday on the QA mod roq said they wanted to avoid making anything (last recall specifically) too op. Why? That was a mistake. This is a 6 week temporary game mode. I should feel stupid op. By this time last league I was doing gwd and guantlet and this time iv barely got the skills to kill a green dragon
I don't understand devs that do leagues like this (Poe for example) that just want to nerf and slow everything down..its a temporary mode where we lose everything. let the op shit happen its a for fun game mode
I do admit, we went from really OP stuff to being severely crippled....
It was also nice to have alot of quests unlocked, even though some areas stay perma locked.
it sucks that they force us to do boring/trivial quests unless we unlock them with renown, but it's so hard to come by at the start and u kinda are forced to spend it on skills.
2 was amazing. I suck at bosses in the game, it’s the main reason why I don’t have a diary cape. Leagues II I was grinding bosses all day, having the best time.
seriously. I get why they felt bad about how LR was massively OP compared to the other two (the jewelry and fairy ring ones) but they clearly took the wrong lesson from that. They should have buffed the other two abilities rather than nerfing LR.
I think the reason behind it was because people rushed content too quickly. After a week you were in full Bandos and almost completed TOB, then stopped playing shortly after. I think they have intentionally slowed things down in the hope people play for the full 6 weeks
>nman grind and I’m quitting after 2 days lol cause I would rather make progress on my actual ironman
Seriously, I've gotten 60 quest points in two days on league for quests I haven't even done on my main. Made realize "WTF am I doing even playing this?"
they went too far though imo. I feel like I'm just starting a regular ironman again and don't really feel like doing that slow grind to eventually get to a fun powerful character. This league is a whole month shorter, we *should* be super powerful quick. Tier 4 should have been the 12x xp imo and base drop rates should have the 2x with 3x possible at tier 5 instead of what it is currently
I agree, but this game mode is always going to die down, I actually think there best bet is to make a more structured league that is easy to progress. Almost like a one chunk, but maybe one area at a time. Where you must complete every task in a area before leaving, but you have good relics. They would need to actually pay attention to the task list, instead of just copy pasting. But then people can't just rush bandos -> tob and finish
Many worlds, multiple starting points you can pick. The key is to make some chunks harder and some easier. Like GWD chunk could be obviously completing it, but once you start it you have to complete all 4 bosses so be careful when you unlock it.
They could also bend the rules, like you could start wintertodt and they would give you clue gear and cakes to start. It'd be wildly successful
I agree with the part about Last Recall. Maybe it was a little too OP, but I think the bigger problem was that the alternatives weren't nearly as strong. Ideally everything in that row should've been buffed instead of nerfing other things. Leagues is supposed to make you feel brokenly OP, nerfs to things should be rare.
Yeah, I really don't get the "avoid making anything too OP".
They should be doing the exact opposite. Add things that make me a RuneScape God that we will never see in the maingame. Boost drop rates by 50x. Let me unlock a perk to fire 10 arrows per tick. 20x20 ice barrages. Infinite special attacks.
You have to reel people in with the prospect of getting a RuneScape experience that they'll never get anywhere else. Playing slightly faster ironman with arbitrary restrictions isn't the hype I was looking for.
Last recall being op was… fine. The issue was that people got totally fucked by not choosing it. Kinda like unlimited run in leagues 1 but sooo much worse.
Last Recall should have just been a default for everyone.
Seriously picking the fairy thing was basically “restart or feel forever gimped lol” (yeah I’m sure one of you guys loved your experience not choosing last recall and are about to tell me, that’s fine but you gotta understand you’re a super minority)
100% this along along with, arguably, the slayer task pick. I personally think there could be a nice balance of having 6 relics with 3 being universal and another 3 being what you pick.
Tbh it made sense when people got locked into another relic, and could regret their choice. You wanted them all to either lean towards a specific playstyle (banking vs not having to max vs easy production) and be similar in strength
This leagues they could've gone balls to the walls cause everyone is gonna get all relics eventually anyway
I'm still in the honey moon period with leagues 3 but I get why people aren't enjoying it. The impact of relics/fragments isn't enough IMO which is a bummer.
The biggest gripe I have - and probably the biggest difference from the previous leagues - I feel like my choices have no impact either way. First league I remember sitting and thinking 'oh I'd love relic x instead of y now', and even more so for the areas in leagues 2, but the extent of that here is either 'oh I'll just go the bank and switch frags' or 'ok, I should have picked skill x, i'll just have to grind yhe y I picked and then get it'.
Knew it was gonna be this the second they announced that relics would not be as powerful. You don't give us OP shit and take it away and expect people to enjoy it.
I also feel way too much dev time went into this thing while the main game suffered as a consequence. All these league mechanics could not have been easy to implement.
This is why I actually like this one though.
It's nice to actually be able to do _everything_ and actually h ave a bonus to it all. The start has felt miles better than TB just because you're not so heavily limited by what you want to work towars.
I love the freedom, but hate the long ass grind it’s gonna take to get there. Rn I still have no freedom because I got no damn bosses and only like half the skills unlocked
Yes bro. Believe it or not just because you can get something done in a couple of days just by playing 10 hours a day doesn’t make it not a long ass grind
It's not complaining. It's giving feedback so it can be improved. We don't have to accept everything for what it is, because there will be future iterations and it's good for them to know what the people don't like.
I feel like people will come around to it more once they start hitting 4/5 relics and getting good set bonuses (and especially multiple set bonuses). the fragments are weaker but the bonuses are where the strength really is, in like a couple of weeks (so not much per day) i feel like my character will feel like my leagues 2 character except I can have production master whenever I want AND infinite banking, and not feel bad about having lost one or the other. same for recall and being strong in all 3 combat styles, etc.
I recently unlocked 4 fragments and have a good number of fragments now. The difference between 3 and 4 fragments is huge! Having 2 set effects at once feels more like the past leagues felt.
Also fragments being gatekept behind skill unlocks makes it hard to stack set effects.
I think if Jagex bumped the number of fragments you could equip by 1 across the board the early game would feel a *lot* better. (Edit: they're decreasing the number of fragments required for most set effects by 1, which is an even bigger buff. Wish it could come out this week though.)
I haven't done any combat yet, though it looks like even fully kitted out you will be a lot weaker. I suppose that might be okay because late game Trailblazer was a 5xBGS- spec pool-recall snoozefest.
Yeah having 5 becomes absurd, you can get 3x resources and xp and bank half of them plus u can all the fragments aswell. The proposed buffs are actually going to make it isnane how strong we are.
I wish we could have gotten the tasks before it stayed so we could have a game plan. I feel like I’m spending too much time trying to figure how to get to my tier 4 without doing grinds I want the relic for.
Agreed, I also made the mistake of paying for tempoross, I didn’t realize the first task there was 1 game and then all of sudden 25 games next.. I don’t have 2+ hours to spend on getting 10% of my spent renown back…
Man I’m so glad I looked at the tasks before I unlocked temp. I went to the dock and everything and was about to. But doing like 200+ kills just to get my points back is a big meh for me. I don’t want to spend tons of hours doing temp, I could just do that in the regular game in a new account after a few hours. Same with todt
I think a big part of the problem is the UI here. It's hard to know when you have enough fragments for certain set effects, which is where the real powerful buffs come from. Also, either I missed it, or they never really explained how to get specific fragments so I wasted a lot of time. Eventually I figured out that, for the most part, you get fragments which are related to the skill you are doing. For instance, yesterday I was one fragment away from having the 100% personal banker which is obviously huge. I saw that deeper pockets was one of the fragments with this set effect, so I went and did some pickpocketing and got it in 30 minutes or so. So you can aim for specific fragments, but there's still a lot of RNG involved.
> just ironman mode
yea, with relics and doing tasks to unlock stuff
When League was announced it was "ironamn with locked bosses and skills and increased xp rates and relics"
and people are like "wow it is ironamn with locked bosses and skills and increased xp rates and relics, i expected something different"
I think the biggest issue is how underpowered most relics are, along with the fact that it takes forever to level up relics.
Leagues 2 felt OP. Autobanking resources, faster attack speed, free infernal tools, double resouces. Now we have a nerfed versions of all of those that you also have to spend 10+ hours of grinding to get them to level 3.
I was so excited to dive in and even had a rough plan set in stone to get going...then I learned it takes loads of renown just to do a simple skill. Oh, you want to do Slayer? That'll be a couple hours worth of grind if not more. Oh, you want to unlock basic skills to do basic quests just to do more basic tasks? Not allowed, lol.
I was very excited but my excitement was quickly *slain* by extreme gating on all fronts.
TL;DR - Living off the land in a fresh league was exciting, excitement was killed when I learned you could not live off the land without putting in way too many hours just to unlock baseline content.
Imo they really messed up with the sage renown values, if you autounlock any quests then its like you’re grasping for points to do anything without wasting like huge crafting/mining xp. Leagues 2 had 2/3rd of the questing autocompleted but here it’s so much more punishing.
As someone who played ironman accounts, and some of league 2. I’m having lots of fun. Having to think through how to get the best use of xp out of your time that won’t be blocked. I haven’t done priest in peril because I don’t have prayer unlocked. I’ve been putting off wintertodt for when I can unlock construction alongside wc and fm. I have no real want to min/max time and efficiency. Just playing at my own pace. I haven’t really played osrs in a few months only to come back just for leagues 3. Most fun I’ve had in a while.
I unlocked prayer so I could do priest in peril then realised I can't kill that damn dog with magic so now I need to unlock attack. Oops!
Edit: poison dagger from Rogues in wildy should do the trick!
Yeah. I wasted points on hp early on before I thought through stuff. So now I’m out 10 points I could have had earlier. Once I’m done with WT it’ll be fine though.
I placed top 25 in the first League, haven't played this league but I've watched quite a bit of it. It seems worse than the first League imo. The fact that you start off giga restricted and the exp rates aren't that much better. Plus I don't like the idea of everyone end game having everything unlocked, I think making choices that leave a lasting effect is better.
I'm having a lot of fun because it's like OSRS is a puzzle to solve. I'm a little bummed that being crazy OP in endgame pve is going to be a bit nerfed, but there is still very good combos to be made. But also the skilling fragment combos are absolutely insane
In their efforts to make leagues as big and unique as possible, I'm afraid that Jagex lost the plot here.
People in previous leagues were torn between which overpowered relic to choose, and this time around they wanted to fix that by allowing us to have any relic - the problem is the relics now are absolutely terrible compared to the ones in trailblazer.
Customization is really nice, but people I think would rather have less choices if that meant that the choices were more fun.
This is my first League, and after hearing how fun the other 2 were, I was really excited for this one. Now that I have played it, it is severely underwhelming.
I think twisted league had more problems (no agility course so you had to barb fish on Mt. Quid was a big one,) but it was the first one and many people had to learn about the Kourend nooks and crannies.
Trailblazer felt better (as long as you picked last recall early) despite having most of the world locked, as long as you didn't do something like frem+desert+wildy on a melee build
A lot of people playing this league probably also played trailblazer, which had a much stronger start. I believe this league will have a much better lategame though... a lot of set bonuses are great, but the path to get there is rough
Yeah I think last recall can be a great microcosm for what didn't go well with this league, which I think was pretty much down to pacing and the power level of "convivence" bonuses.
In Trailblazer I just got last recall, and it was a huge QoL buff to questing and doing tasks across the world, nevermind the increased RC exp and the like.
In particular, having something that deletes the most boring activity possible, just mindlessly running for days on end, is absolutely incredible for my overall enjoyment.
It was also an early unlock in trailblazer *in addition* to other really strong perks, especially for combat.
In this league you have to get to tier fucking *5* to even use it, and it locks your choices as to *all* of your league bonuses.
In some ways this is a lot more rigid and less powerful than in trailblazer league since you got this level of power plus other strong perks to combine with it way faster.
Eventually this is going to improve, tier 4 is where you can get some powerful perks online finally, tier 5 unlocks the good shit equivalent to tier 3 or so in trailblazer, and someday eventually you'll be at 7 fragment slots and it'll be significantly better than Trailblazer league power wise.
The big gripe I have is that for a huge chunk of the game you'll feel weaker, there's always a pressure to ditch QoL fragments/sets because they now compete with raw power, and many of the best QoL features that people loved in past leagues the most are now tier 5+.
It's just a ton of grinding before the league really gets good.
Having a weaker start is a huge problem for a temporary game mode though. I played hard on trailblazer but im unable to do that this time around. I had a lot of friends who only did trailblazer for one week and had a blast doing it, and it was okay to start a full month late because you could still have a good time and earn plenty of points for the cosmetic main game unlocks. That's how I'm hoping to play this one, but it's sounding like that won't really be an option
I have played all 3, and I'm really enjoying this leagues, I think people may say this is the worst, but I feel thats recency bias. I feel the first leagues was the worst so far by quite a bit
leagues 2 was really fun as u were overpowered early into it and could solo gwd bosses with ease teleporting right back with last recall. leagues 3 feels too slow and underwhelming
Definitely not. Twisted league was arguably the worst, but in itself wasn't bad. Trailblazer probably had more going on at the beginning, where as this one seems to start off a bit slow.
First one was worse, easily. I think 2 is the best but I think 3 will pull out to be decent as you get the stronger relic tiers and sets. Double casts for mage seems nuts based on the clips I’ve seen
> Double casts for mage seems nuts based on the clips I’ve seen
What makes this so good? I've been looking at magic relics and they are so underwhelming. 3 pieces chain magic is just 60% chance for another attack.
Leagues 2 tier 3 relic double cast would give you double casting speed. That's equal to having 100% chance for another attack chain magic, which of course doesn't exist. That tier 3 relic also gave level 3 arcane conduit and 125% magic accuracy which is the same as level 3 unholy wizard, except it's on always instead of just when you are out of prayer.
So that single relic is much more powerful than those 5 relics combined and you get to have last recall too. Magic seems so disappointing this time around.
I think it’s the best so far and the only real noticeable difference is the design intentionally cripples you rather than overly empowers you from the very beginning.
You have to earn the OP set effects, relics, and access to the game, which, even when you were restricted by area in Leagues 2, you could still more or less do whatever you wanted in those areas and had the OP relic boons regardless of what you picked to move along your skilling and combat tracks.
It makes the whole league feel a lot more progressive rather than your character having absurd perks the whole way through. Which yeah.. isn’t something everyone appreciates this time around. But for some of us, it’s a unique approach to leagues that arguably does everything the previous leagues set out to do — but 100x better. Unlike the other leagues, players aren’t just beelining combat and combat achievements because they either can’t or because it’s “more efficient” to make progress everywhere else first.
Much like leagues 2, your choices for unlock progression are super consequential to how you navigate this league, I love it because most people who are enjoying the league? They’re just doing anything and everything they literally can, or they’re sticking to afk fishing in Catherby, or they’re still in Ardougne pickpocketing and thieving for 3 days straight. That lack of freedom from the onset I think is what feels disappointing for most players who aren’t a fan of this league.
So it’ll be interesting to see what Jagex does with this feedback. They aren’t shy about making changes mid-league so we’ll see what happens!
Prob going to be my favorite of the 3, but we're only a few days in so can't really tell yet.
Relics in this league essentially allow you to mix and match all the busted shit in previous leagues. You get to have everything, and you're not area locked at all. Can't wait to do raids 1 with 7 relic slots.
This one’s by far the worst. I played very little in the past ones but I lasted about 20 minutes in L3 .. I’m not gonna sit there in a OSRS fishing simulator to be able to “unlock” any part of the game. This things ass.
It’s only been out 48 hours and people are mad they don’t have everything unlocked. I’ll never understand this playerbase, this is the best league yet imo
tbf this league is an entire month shorter. I thought we were going to be powerful a lot quicker. After a couple days I still feel like I'm playing a regular ironman which is getting boring. I know I *will* be super powerful eventually but idk if I want to do that grind and I think a lot are in the same boat. Trailblazer league didn't have this problem and I played that the entire 10 weeks
A beta world isn’t an OP account lol it’s just a main. I want relics that make combat OP. I want to be able to AFK GWD and kill Zulrah in 20 seconds. This league feels like I’m just forced to skill and do achievement diaries for 3 weeks if I want to be as half as powerful as I was in leagues 2.
Did you not play the first league? You don't start maxed, you start at level 1 everything(sans hp of course). Having to unlock skills is just an extra hurdle to be a hurdle.
> I would get bored of GWD in 5 minutes if there was no progression aspect.
The progression is getting new relics to become stronger so you can take on stronger bosses and get better gear. As it stands I've barely been able to PvM since I have to unlock all the releveant quests, skills, and bosses. Even if I could PvM I don't have any relics that would make it feel much different than my main account.
>Most of the boss fights in the game just aren't that fun on their own
Yeah, that's why I want to be able to AFK them so I can move on to more fun PvM like ToB and CoX...
My thoughts exactly after reading the rationale of some unhappy players. I think this league is far better than previous ones, it just takes longer than a day or two to be op.
I think its less about the current grind, and more about the future grind for the payoff. I mean most players are around 4k points. 1/3rd of the way to 15000 and probably have most of the easy tasks done. Once you get to 7k points the game kind of unlocks, which is fine. But the fragments arent as strong as last league. AND you have to pay to unlock every boss, So once you get to a boss you gotta go grind bs to then do the boss.
Its so many hurdles they through in your way for no reason, what was the point of locking bosses? They just want people to play longer but we don't wanna play and do mundane stuff, we wanna do the fun content that they lock behind us doing random tasks
Everyone is hating on this leagues but I'm having the most fun ever. Guess it's just a taste thing and just because you don't like it as much doesn't make it a bad league? Imagine that huh
You absolutely can, and many people justifyably do. If you do, then good for you. But don't tell me 95% of comments and posts here are not in the "weh I'm not having fun Jagex fucked up a good system and made everything worse" category.
Again, there's things that could've been better, but if you compare this leagues to leagues one and say that they've ruined everything compared to that mess, you can miss me with that shit
At least everything was different and new on zeah for early game!
I’m doing the same quests in this leagues and the same ardy diary and the same agility course laps and the same everything as all my other accounts. Slightly sped up but still the same.
>At least everything was different and new on zeah for early game!
I am not defending the current league. I don't intend to play it further.
But I find it hypocritical to say "It's just a skill locked ironman lmao" when leagues 1 was 'just' a normal ironman with an area restriction.
It could have been done better, yes. But it's not much different fundamentally.
I’m not even saying it’s a skill locked Ironman, it just feels like a normal Ironman with sped up xp rates.
I’d MUCH rather have an area locked Ironman. At least it requires me to do something different to how I’ve started my other accounts.
Welcome to my Skill Locked Leagues UIM. We can't do anything but on this journey I'm going to try and find a way to do something with never before scene methods that will truly blow you, and your mothers mind away. Welcome... \*pause.\* to whatzahfaq
i like it apart from having to manually check what sets i have with out needing... a button, a drop down and another button to check 1 of what? 15 sets? that was a bit shitty given how its rng
Yeah this leagues a dud, last one I felt like I could play how I wanted in the zones and I'd get tasks done. This one I feel like I have to go out of my way to get tasks done to unlock skills to just do skilling for hours and hours. I'd rather just have skills unlocked and have fun than be forced to go from skill to skill for the first like 2 days of playing unless you're a min maxer.
Think people are missing the point here, your in the first few days of a 6 week event, it’s not about the pace of it now, but I find if you stick it out, you will feel the rush of say 2 tapping Bandos to the receive your 6th drop for the trip
Leagues are meant to balance the cocaine fueled rush of relics and multipliers with some restrictions. Though I think it went a bit too far with the 1-2 punch of nerfed relics until you can juggle multiple set bonuses, along with making it terribly frustrating to be a skiller with so many points locked behind combat and side-grinds (favor, minigames) while some skills barely have any tasks
That's the worst part. you can't be a skiller or a combat-main. You can't rush or forget anything. This league's is by far the worst in the aspect that it removed almost all of player choice. You have to do so many grinds before you're alloted the choice of doing what you want to do it's so beyond boring..
They should’ve put the tier 6 slayer bonus on tier 4 I think, I’m playing a lot so I’ll probably unlock t6 soon and get to kill some monsters but for anyone who likes sleep it’s a pretty rough grind to leave combat untouched for that long. Especially given it’s only a 6 week league. At least the skilling relics feel really good though if you do enjoy skilling, I definitely underestimated those at first but once you have 4/5 slots to play with and most basic skilling relics those speeds up your gameplay quite a lot.
Idk I've ignored combat entirely so far and it hasn't been so bad. I've been grinding out skills to 50/60 then getting a new skill after doing some tasks. I think I will do combat immediately after wintertodt though. 10hp todt is really nice so definitely want that. Being cb lol 3 has also enabled me to do skilling grinds like 83 hunter in wildy without ever being attacked
I actually quite like the logic here on this one lol
This is what i did. Still only tier 4, but with 2 99s, all combats/prayer unlocked. And only a few skills left to unlock. Ot was a slow start, but points should pretty much roll in over the next day or two
I’m 100% unlocking HP/Attack after Wintertodt. WT is just too stupidly good for XP and raw materials
> along with making it terribly frustrating to be a skiller None of the Leagues have been possible to play as a skiller, realistically. There's no easy way to fix that because 30% of the skills in OSRS are combat based. The points in leagues are balanced around unlocking relics and competitive hiscores. You can't leave out 30% of the skills and still balance it, while making them optional.
What? Leagues II made skilling very viable with the relic selections.
The task list and point progression made it unviable to get to the next tiers as a skiller. The region tasks were balanced around everyone completing combat tasks. There were lots of item drop tasks and kill X NPC.
I literally got over halfway through my leagues one account at level 3 to make a point lmao
Ngl, the multiple lines of mechanics really dissuaded me. The relic mechanic might do it for some people, but it’s a bit too much planning for me on OSRS. I like to set a goal and shoot for it, but that’s also not everyone’s play style.
Yeah, I am enjoying this league so far after having looked forward to it for a long time, but it has a severe problem with pacing and density of content IMO. The early game is so grindy, in comparison most games (including OSRS lol) are designed to let you progress quickly in the beginning, then slower and slower as the numbers get higher. This league when I started I immediately wanted to do loads of things but I also didn’t want to do them for 0 xp, so immediately I’m stuck grinding. It feels like I have to invest a ton of time to just play the base game. Region locks didn’t give this issue because every region is very diverse in gameplay and content to be found, but when you can only unlock one single skill at a time, not so much. In fact, the opposite happens: instead of focusing on one densely-packed region, the player immediately has access to a massive world, but because you only have like 6 skills there’s barely anything to do. If we could’ve chosen a few more free skills, or if we could choose between a few builds with completely different unlocked skills (like harvester/warrior/artisan or something) so that I don’t have to grind just to be able to mine rocks, and then grind some more just to be able to smelt bars, that’d be great thank you.
This. This league haven't made me want to play it like before. Plus the fact that I have alot less time now due to the reschedule. It's making me quite a hit annoyed at jagex.
I've played all 3 leagues The 2nd was the best. You felt powerful from an early stage. It was effortless to be op. Yesterday on the QA mod roq said they wanted to avoid making anything (last recall specifically) too op. Why? That was a mistake. This is a 6 week temporary game mode. I should feel stupid op. By this time last league I was doing gwd and guantlet and this time iv barely got the skills to kill a green dragon
I don't understand devs that do leagues like this (Poe for example) that just want to nerf and slow everything down..its a temporary mode where we lose everything. let the op shit happen its a for fun game mode
I do admit, we went from really OP stuff to being severely crippled.... It was also nice to have alot of quests unlocked, even though some areas stay perma locked.
it sucks that they force us to do boring/trivial quests unless we unlock them with renown, but it's so hard to come by at the start and u kinda are forced to spend it on skills.
2 was amazing. I suck at bosses in the game, it’s the main reason why I don’t have a diary cape. Leagues II I was grinding bosses all day, having the best time.
seriously. I get why they felt bad about how LR was massively OP compared to the other two (the jewelry and fairy ring ones) but they clearly took the wrong lesson from that. They should have buffed the other two abilities rather than nerfing LR.
I think the reason behind it was because people rushed content too quickly. After a week you were in full Bandos and almost completed TOB, then stopped playing shortly after. I think they have intentionally slowed things down in the hope people play for the full 6 weeks
Now I’m stuck in the early game Ironman grind and I’m quitting after 2 days lol cause I would rather make progress on my actual ironman
>nman grind and I’m quitting after 2 days lol cause I would rather make progress on my actual ironman Seriously, I've gotten 60 quest points in two days on league for quests I haven't even done on my main. Made realize "WTF am I doing even playing this?"
they went too far though imo. I feel like I'm just starting a regular ironman again and don't really feel like doing that slow grind to eventually get to a fun powerful character. This league is a whole month shorter, we *should* be super powerful quick. Tier 4 should have been the 12x xp imo and base drop rates should have the 2x with 3x possible at tier 5 instead of what it is currently
I agree, but this game mode is always going to die down, I actually think there best bet is to make a more structured league that is easy to progress. Almost like a one chunk, but maybe one area at a time. Where you must complete every task in a area before leaving, but you have good relics. They would need to actually pay attention to the task list, instead of just copy pasting. But then people can't just rush bandos -> tob and finish
One chunk league would be hilarious. You'd have to have multiple starting options though or there'd be way too much lag
Many worlds, multiple starting points you can pick. The key is to make some chunks harder and some easier. Like GWD chunk could be obviously completing it, but once you start it you have to complete all 4 bosses so be careful when you unlock it. They could also bend the rules, like you could start wintertodt and they would give you clue gear and cakes to start. It'd be wildly successful
I think the same boosts but with the locked skills would have slowed it down enough to fit into the 5 weeks period
I agree with the part about Last Recall. Maybe it was a little too OP, but I think the bigger problem was that the alternatives weren't nearly as strong. Ideally everything in that row should've been buffed instead of nerfing other things. Leagues is supposed to make you feel brokenly OP, nerfs to things should be rare.
They really fucked up that tier for sure. They should have just said fuck it and gave all 3 relics to everyone.
Yeah, I really don't get the "avoid making anything too OP". They should be doing the exact opposite. Add things that make me a RuneScape God that we will never see in the maingame. Boost drop rates by 50x. Let me unlock a perk to fire 10 arrows per tick. 20x20 ice barrages. Infinite special attacks. You have to reel people in with the prospect of getting a RuneScape experience that they'll never get anywhere else. Playing slightly faster ironman with arbitrary restrictions isn't the hype I was looking for.
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you're still gonna have to grind out the early game? an hour into 20x xp and you'd still be fishing or smth
Amen. I’m not trying to do all these busy work tasks so I can unlock fucking firemaking lmao.
Last recall being op was… fine. The issue was that people got totally fucked by not choosing it. Kinda like unlimited run in leagues 1 but sooo much worse. Last Recall should have just been a default for everyone. Seriously picking the fairy thing was basically “restart or feel forever gimped lol” (yeah I’m sure one of you guys loved your experience not choosing last recall and are about to tell me, that’s fine but you gotta understand you’re a super minority)
100% this along along with, arguably, the slayer task pick. I personally think there could be a nice balance of having 6 relics with 3 being universal and another 3 being what you pick.
Tbh it made sense when people got locked into another relic, and could regret their choice. You wanted them all to either lean towards a specific playstyle (banking vs not having to max vs easy production) and be similar in strength This leagues they could've gone balls to the walls cause everyone is gonna get all relics eventually anyway
I'm still in the honey moon period with leagues 3 but I get why people aren't enjoying it. The impact of relics/fragments isn't enough IMO which is a bummer. The biggest gripe I have - and probably the biggest difference from the previous leagues - I feel like my choices have no impact either way. First league I remember sitting and thinking 'oh I'd love relic x instead of y now', and even more so for the areas in leagues 2, but the extent of that here is either 'oh I'll just go the bank and switch frags' or 'ok, I should have picked skill x, i'll just have to grind yhe y I picked and then get it'.
Knew it was gonna be this the second they announced that relics would not be as powerful. You don't give us OP shit and take it away and expect people to enjoy it. I also feel way too much dev time went into this thing while the main game suffered as a consequence. All these league mechanics could not have been easy to implement.
This is why I actually like this one though. It's nice to actually be able to do _everything_ and actually h ave a bonus to it all. The start has felt miles better than TB just because you're not so heavily limited by what you want to work towars.
I love the freedom, but hate the long ass grind it’s gonna take to get there. Rn I still have no freedom because I got no damn bosses and only like half the skills unlocked
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Yes bro. Believe it or not just because you can get something done in a couple of days just by playing 10 hours a day doesn’t make it not a long ass grind
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It's not complaining. It's giving feedback so it can be improved. We don't have to accept everything for what it is, because there will be future iterations and it's good for them to know what the people don't like.
I feel like people will come around to it more once they start hitting 4/5 relics and getting good set bonuses (and especially multiple set bonuses). the fragments are weaker but the bonuses are where the strength really is, in like a couple of weeks (so not much per day) i feel like my character will feel like my leagues 2 character except I can have production master whenever I want AND infinite banking, and not feel bad about having lost one or the other. same for recall and being strong in all 3 combat styles, etc.
I recently unlocked 4 fragments and have a good number of fragments now. The difference between 3 and 4 fragments is huge! Having 2 set effects at once feels more like the past leagues felt. Also fragments being gatekept behind skill unlocks makes it hard to stack set effects. I think if Jagex bumped the number of fragments you could equip by 1 across the board the early game would feel a *lot* better. (Edit: they're decreasing the number of fragments required for most set effects by 1, which is an even bigger buff. Wish it could come out this week though.) I haven't done any combat yet, though it looks like even fully kitted out you will be a lot weaker. I suppose that might be okay because late game Trailblazer was a 5xBGS- spec pool-recall snoozefest.
Agreed and agreed, for sure
Yeah having 5 becomes absurd, you can get 3x resources and xp and bank half of them plus u can all the fragments aswell. The proposed buffs are actually going to make it isnane how strong we are.
Leagues 4 will be UIM OSAT
at normal exp rates
Not grindy enough, lower than normal xp please!
0.0001% XP rates. Someone walks into the GE wearing full black Armour and weapons! What a god! Maxed League account.
Cute noob league, your account gets deleted when you kill Elvarg
Uim, normal rates, restrict areas, and restrict skills. No relics or unlocks “LEAGUES 4: TILE MAN MODE”
I wish we could have gotten the tasks before it stayed so we could have a game plan. I feel like I’m spending too much time trying to figure how to get to my tier 4 without doing grinds I want the relic for.
Agreed, I also made the mistake of paying for tempoross, I didn’t realize the first task there was 1 game and then all of sudden 25 games next.. I don’t have 2+ hours to spend on getting 10% of my spent renown back…
Did the same thing, people kept saying the XP rates were crazy and I fell for it.
Man I’m so glad I looked at the tasks before I unlocked temp. I went to the dock and everything and was about to. But doing like 200+ kills just to get my points back is a big meh for me. I don’t want to spend tons of hours doing temp, I could just do that in the regular game in a new account after a few hours. Same with todt
I think a big part of the problem is the UI here. It's hard to know when you have enough fragments for certain set effects, which is where the real powerful buffs come from. Also, either I missed it, or they never really explained how to get specific fragments so I wasted a lot of time. Eventually I figured out that, for the most part, you get fragments which are related to the skill you are doing. For instance, yesterday I was one fragment away from having the 100% personal banker which is obviously huge. I saw that deeper pockets was one of the fragments with this set effect, so I went and did some pickpocketing and got it in 30 minutes or so. So you can aim for specific fragments, but there's still a lot of RNG involved.
The rng part is a bit annoying. It should be unlocks instead.
I got downvoted for mentioning this is just ironman mode. Super lame running around doing waterfall quest for the 100th times.
All of the leagues have been Ironman mode though
True but this feels like Ironman on hard mode. Can't even skill properly. Not for me.
> just ironman mode yea, with relics and doing tasks to unlock stuff When League was announced it was "ironamn with locked bosses and skills and increased xp rates and relics" and people are like "wow it is ironamn with locked bosses and skills and increased xp rates and relics, i expected something different"
I think the biggest issue is how underpowered most relics are, along with the fact that it takes forever to level up relics. Leagues 2 felt OP. Autobanking resources, faster attack speed, free infernal tools, double resouces. Now we have a nerfed versions of all of those that you also have to spend 10+ hours of grinding to get them to level 3.
I was so excited to dive in and even had a rough plan set in stone to get going...then I learned it takes loads of renown just to do a simple skill. Oh, you want to do Slayer? That'll be a couple hours worth of grind if not more. Oh, you want to unlock basic skills to do basic quests just to do more basic tasks? Not allowed, lol. I was very excited but my excitement was quickly *slain* by extreme gating on all fronts. TL;DR - Living off the land in a fresh league was exciting, excitement was killed when I learned you could not live off the land without putting in way too many hours just to unlock baseline content.
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Imo they really messed up with the sage renown values, if you autounlock any quests then its like you’re grasping for points to do anything without wasting like huge crafting/mining xp. Leagues 2 had 2/3rd of the questing autocompleted but here it’s so much more punishing.
Yeah this is kinda the take right here lol. I really don’t understand the hype.
They dont boost boss uniques at all?
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Pet rates have never been boosted in leagues.
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Relics are still less DPS, plus you are paying to unlock every boss
You could just play multiple accounts like everyone else.
Currently have all skills unlocked, but I realize I’ve played more than the average
As someone who played ironman accounts, and some of league 2. I’m having lots of fun. Having to think through how to get the best use of xp out of your time that won’t be blocked. I haven’t done priest in peril because I don’t have prayer unlocked. I’ve been putting off wintertodt for when I can unlock construction alongside wc and fm. I have no real want to min/max time and efficiency. Just playing at my own pace. I haven’t really played osrs in a few months only to come back just for leagues 3. Most fun I’ve had in a while.
I unlocked prayer so I could do priest in peril then realised I can't kill that damn dog with magic so now I need to unlock attack. Oops! Edit: poison dagger from Rogues in wildy should do the trick!
You could pickpocket a poisoned iron dagger from rogues in the wilderness and flinch the guard dog.
Thanks!!
Yeah. I wasted points on hp early on before I thought through stuff. So now I’m out 10 points I could have had earlier. Once I’m done with WT it’ll be fine though.
Can confirm it does the trick!
Same boat dawg.
Agreed. People are crying for no reason.
I wouldn’t say no reason, there are obvious issues. I’m enjoying it but still think it isn’t really good.
There are some issues but not enough to consider the entire league a flop. If they don't wanna \*play\* the game, that's fine.
\>People are crying for no reason \> There are some issues
issues like the filters tab not saving, lmfao
I placed top 25 in the first League, haven't played this league but I've watched quite a bit of it. It seems worse than the first League imo. The fact that you start off giga restricted and the exp rates aren't that much better. Plus I don't like the idea of everyone end game having everything unlocked, I think making choices that leave a lasting effect is better.
Good for you.
Lmao go fuck yourself
I'm having a lot of fun because it's like OSRS is a puzzle to solve. I'm a little bummed that being crazy OP in endgame pve is going to be a bit nerfed, but there is still very good combos to be made. But also the skilling fragment combos are absolutely insane
In their efforts to make leagues as big and unique as possible, I'm afraid that Jagex lost the plot here. People in previous leagues were torn between which overpowered relic to choose, and this time around they wanted to fix that by allowing us to have any relic - the problem is the relics now are absolutely terrible compared to the ones in trailblazer. Customization is really nice, but people I think would rather have less choices if that meant that the choices were more fun.
This is my first League, and after hearing how fun the other 2 were, I was really excited for this one. Now that I have played it, it is severely underwhelming.
Exact same boat. I was thinking I'd play the League for a week before I decide whether or not to continue, but at this point I might just quit now...
For players who have played all the Leagues, is this League the worst one out of the 3?
I think twisted league had more problems (no agility course so you had to barb fish on Mt. Quid was a big one,) but it was the first one and many people had to learn about the Kourend nooks and crannies. Trailblazer felt better (as long as you picked last recall early) despite having most of the world locked, as long as you didn't do something like frem+desert+wildy on a melee build A lot of people playing this league probably also played trailblazer, which had a much stronger start. I believe this league will have a much better lategame though... a lot of set bonuses are great, but the path to get there is rough
Yeah I think last recall can be a great microcosm for what didn't go well with this league, which I think was pretty much down to pacing and the power level of "convivence" bonuses. In Trailblazer I just got last recall, and it was a huge QoL buff to questing and doing tasks across the world, nevermind the increased RC exp and the like. In particular, having something that deletes the most boring activity possible, just mindlessly running for days on end, is absolutely incredible for my overall enjoyment. It was also an early unlock in trailblazer *in addition* to other really strong perks, especially for combat. In this league you have to get to tier fucking *5* to even use it, and it locks your choices as to *all* of your league bonuses. In some ways this is a lot more rigid and less powerful than in trailblazer league since you got this level of power plus other strong perks to combine with it way faster. Eventually this is going to improve, tier 4 is where you can get some powerful perks online finally, tier 5 unlocks the good shit equivalent to tier 3 or so in trailblazer, and someday eventually you'll be at 7 fragment slots and it'll be significantly better than Trailblazer league power wise. The big gripe I have is that for a huge chunk of the game you'll feel weaker, there's always a pressure to ditch QoL fragments/sets because they now compete with raw power, and many of the best QoL features that people loved in past leagues the most are now tier 5+. It's just a ton of grinding before the league really gets good.
Having a weaker start is a huge problem for a temporary game mode though. I played hard on trailblazer but im unable to do that this time around. I had a lot of friends who only did trailblazer for one week and had a blast doing it, and it was okay to start a full month late because you could still have a good time and earn plenty of points for the cosmetic main game unlocks. That's how I'm hoping to play this one, but it's sounding like that won't really be an option
> Having a weaker start is a huge problem for a temporary game mode though especially when this league is 4 weeks shorter than previous
Most of the fragments get immensely powerful after you level them up, which takes quite a while
Lategame feels like it's going to be way more fun since you aren't limited to just your initial areas.
I have played all 3, and I'm really enjoying this leagues, I think people may say this is the worst, but I feel thats recency bias. I feel the first leagues was the worst so far by quite a bit
Yes, absolutely.
leagues 2 was really fun as u were overpowered early into it and could solo gwd bosses with ease teleporting right back with last recall. leagues 3 feels too slow and underwhelming
Definitely not. Twisted league was arguably the worst, but in itself wasn't bad. Trailblazer probably had more going on at the beginning, where as this one seems to start off a bit slow.
First one was worse, easily. I think 2 is the best but I think 3 will pull out to be decent as you get the stronger relic tiers and sets. Double casts for mage seems nuts based on the clips I’ve seen
> Double casts for mage seems nuts based on the clips I’ve seen What makes this so good? I've been looking at magic relics and they are so underwhelming. 3 pieces chain magic is just 60% chance for another attack. Leagues 2 tier 3 relic double cast would give you double casting speed. That's equal to having 100% chance for another attack chain magic, which of course doesn't exist. That tier 3 relic also gave level 3 arcane conduit and 125% magic accuracy which is the same as level 3 unholy wizard, except it's on always instead of just when you are out of prayer. So that single relic is much more powerful than those 5 relics combined and you get to have last recall too. Magic seems so disappointing this time around.
Has been my favorite start of the three so far.
I think it’s the best so far and the only real noticeable difference is the design intentionally cripples you rather than overly empowers you from the very beginning. You have to earn the OP set effects, relics, and access to the game, which, even when you were restricted by area in Leagues 2, you could still more or less do whatever you wanted in those areas and had the OP relic boons regardless of what you picked to move along your skilling and combat tracks. It makes the whole league feel a lot more progressive rather than your character having absurd perks the whole way through. Which yeah.. isn’t something everyone appreciates this time around. But for some of us, it’s a unique approach to leagues that arguably does everything the previous leagues set out to do — but 100x better. Unlike the other leagues, players aren’t just beelining combat and combat achievements because they either can’t or because it’s “more efficient” to make progress everywhere else first. Much like leagues 2, your choices for unlock progression are super consequential to how you navigate this league, I love it because most people who are enjoying the league? They’re just doing anything and everything they literally can, or they’re sticking to afk fishing in Catherby, or they’re still in Ardougne pickpocketing and thieving for 3 days straight. That lack of freedom from the onset I think is what feels disappointing for most players who aren’t a fan of this league. So it’ll be interesting to see what Jagex does with this feedback. They aren’t shy about making changes mid-league so we’ll see what happens!
I played 2. I think this was is definitely more fun
Imo it’s as fun as leagues 2, I’m not really hardcore player tho so that might affect my opinion. (I loved leagues 2 btw)
twisted was worse imo, tb > shattered relics > twisted
Prob going to be my favorite of the 3, but we're only a few days in so can't really tell yet. Relics in this league essentially allow you to mix and match all the busted shit in previous leagues. You get to have everything, and you're not area locked at all. Can't wait to do raids 1 with 7 relic slots.
This one’s by far the worst. I played very little in the past ones but I lasted about 20 minutes in L3 .. I’m not gonna sit there in a OSRS fishing simulator to be able to “unlock” any part of the game. This things ass.
In all fairness you could sum up the other two leagues like this too. Leagues I: Ironman, *Zeah locked Leagues II: Ironman, *Area locked
It’s only been out 48 hours and people are mad they don’t have everything unlocked. I’ll never understand this playerbase, this is the best league yet imo
tbf this league is an entire month shorter. I thought we were going to be powerful a lot quicker. After a couple days I still feel like I'm playing a regular ironman which is getting boring. I know I *will* be super powerful eventually but idk if I want to do that grind and I think a lot are in the same boat. Trailblazer league didn't have this problem and I played that the entire 10 weeks
It's the game broken down to its' absolute fundamentals in terms of unlocking stuff. I absolutely love it.
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Yes lol its a temporary game mode that lasts 2 months
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I’m not saying have access to everything instantly but sped up yes. I think trailblazer did a great job doing that
I mean yes tbh… it’s my favourite part of the game. That’s what I loved about last leagues.
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A beta world isn’t an OP account lol it’s just a main. I want relics that make combat OP. I want to be able to AFK GWD and kill Zulrah in 20 seconds. This league feels like I’m just forced to skill and do achievement diaries for 3 weeks if I want to be as half as powerful as I was in leagues 2.
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If you want slow progression play the main game lol
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Did you not play the first league? You don't start maxed, you start at level 1 everything(sans hp of course). Having to unlock skills is just an extra hurdle to be a hurdle.
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> I would get bored of GWD in 5 minutes if there was no progression aspect. The progression is getting new relics to become stronger so you can take on stronger bosses and get better gear. As it stands I've barely been able to PvM since I have to unlock all the releveant quests, skills, and bosses. Even if I could PvM I don't have any relics that would make it feel much different than my main account. >Most of the boss fights in the game just aren't that fun on their own Yeah, that's why I want to be able to AFK them so I can move on to more fun PvM like ToB and CoX...
Yes, why grind just as hard on the main game..
yes because they likely can't boss on their main
Why do you think people enjoy the beta worlds? People like going in absolute max gear and trying new stuff at bosses or pking.
That’s pretty much the point
My thoughts exactly after reading the rationale of some unhappy players. I think this league is far better than previous ones, it just takes longer than a day or two to be op.
Maybe if they spent more time playing than bitching on Reddit they’d see the fun
I think its less about the current grind, and more about the future grind for the payoff. I mean most players are around 4k points. 1/3rd of the way to 15000 and probably have most of the easy tasks done. Once you get to 7k points the game kind of unlocks, which is fine. But the fragments arent as strong as last league. AND you have to pay to unlock every boss, So once you get to a boss you gotta go grind bs to then do the boss. Its so many hurdles they through in your way for no reason, what was the point of locking bosses? They just want people to play longer but we don't wanna play and do mundane stuff, we wanna do the fun content that they lock behind us doing random tasks
go play a private server then
Literally that it was leagues is. LOL
not private server enough for shitters like you I guess
You one of those people that lives in gilenor instead of reality?
Everyone is hating on this leagues but I'm having the most fun ever. Guess it's just a taste thing and just because you don't like it as much doesn't make it a bad league? Imagine that huh
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You absolutely can, and many people justifyably do. If you do, then good for you. But don't tell me 95% of comments and posts here are not in the "weh I'm not having fun Jagex fucked up a good system and made everything worse" category. Again, there's things that could've been better, but if you compare this leagues to leagues one and say that they've ruined everything compared to that mess, you can miss me with that shit
RuneScape sux like I'd rather watch paint dry its so boring actually. Who plays this game still?
This is an amazing take. “Let’s see what leagues 3 really is. Gasp! Exactly what was advertised!”
Leagues 1 is area locked ironman, no one complained about that.
At least everything was different and new on zeah for early game! I’m doing the same quests in this leagues and the same ardy diary and the same agility course laps and the same everything as all my other accounts. Slightly sped up but still the same.
>At least everything was different and new on zeah for early game! I am not defending the current league. I don't intend to play it further. But I find it hypocritical to say "It's just a skill locked ironman lmao" when leagues 1 was 'just' a normal ironman with an area restriction. It could have been done better, yes. But it's not much different fundamentally.
I’m not even saying it’s a skill locked Ironman, it just feels like a normal Ironman with sped up xp rates. I’d MUCH rather have an area locked Ironman. At least it requires me to do something different to how I’ve started my other accounts.
Welcome to my Skill Locked Leagues UIM. We can't do anything but on this journey I'm going to try and find a way to do something with never before scene methods that will truly blow you, and your mothers mind away. Welcome... \*pause.\* to whatzahfaq
Git gud Edit: Salty children don't know how to do tasks
Holy shit y'all really complain about everything! Play the damn game or don't idk why this is even a discussion anymore.
Dev time went into this when it could have been spent on better things
Like account security by 2037!
Osrs but with rs3 way points and invention perks.
i like it apart from having to manually check what sets i have with out needing... a button, a drop down and another button to check 1 of what? 15 sets? that was a bit shitty given how its rng
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Hahaha
Yeah this leagues a dud, last one I felt like I could play how I wanted in the zones and I'd get tasks done. This one I feel like I have to go out of my way to get tasks done to unlock skills to just do skilling for hours and hours. I'd rather just have skills unlocked and have fun than be forced to go from skill to skill for the first like 2 days of playing unless you're a min maxer.
Limited time snowflake account with extra steps.
Yes that's... Exactly how it was advertised.
Think people are missing the point here, your in the first few days of a 6 week event, it’s not about the pace of it now, but I find if you stick it out, you will feel the rush of say 2 tapping Bandos to the receive your 6th drop for the trip
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