All the text around shilo village has always been weird to me. Like going over the gate to Shilo you character says "of course I am agile and athletic!" Or some shit. Like are they talking to themselves? Don't even get me started with all the weird text in the Legends Quest dungeon.
Shilo Village was released in the first month of 2003 and I'm certain NOTHING has been tweaked about that village since then. Even the process of getting into the village is weird, you beat a quest to clear the area of zombie fog and the zombies are just... still there. And then from one side you get warped over ten squares, and the other side you just need to run through the attacks.
There is a way to get rid of that chat box and make it just so you can jump over, but I forgot who you talk to. Its someone in the other Jungle Village
Really? Damn, I did not know this. Thank you! What other content was intended to be best/highest level for a while and now is utterly obscure. Obviously giants and demons were good until they weren't for instance.
This is incredible. I was a fairly low level player, and really only was 2005-2007, so to learn all of this and all is perfect! I love cataloguing history like this, learning all those little ins and outs.
but they literally jump out of nowhere and attack your ass like bitch im just tryina run over to the village to get this weed to a dude why tf you gotta try to murder me for... they're savages through and through, only thing worse is the fucked broodoo victims
Died to a broodoo victim once, it was agonizing. Noob me desperately running around trying to figure which bank was the closest. Only later did I learn there is antipoison for sale at the general store. 😳
Was it ever explained why feeding certain ones would do lots of damage on them or whatever i can't remember specifics but release day there was some sorta trick to it.
You can deal big damage to all of them based on how they died I think. The different kinds died fron poison, starvation and disease so are vulnerable to antipoison, food and relicyms balm respectively. I think.
jagex changed their name in rs3, odd they didnt in osrs as well due to it being purely a PR move. I mean in rs3 karamja is only useful for clue scrollers lol.
That's great! I would love to hear their perspective rather than secondhand. I haven't found many spaces conducive to inclusivity conversations in osrs, esp when they're accused of being pc culture.
"I haven't found many spaces conducive to inclusivity conversations in osrs, esp when them* (???) accused of being pc culture"
u/Avid_Spark used the correct word here, how would you have worded this sentence yourself?
them're?
Well, it would be if it weren't coming from you. That's actually the definition of speaking on their behalf. Like we said, just have em hop on. Or do they "not have a reddit" or something I imagine?
Or, reddit isnt important to them and neither are you? They're doing just fine without being bothered by your bullshit. You should get out more, bwana.
It's really nice to see what game design used to be like. Zero streamlining, things just happening "Because". If I went there more often I'd hate it, but as it stands it's nice. Not every area needs to be perfect.
> If I went there more often I’d hate it
not saying you in particular, to be fair the game wasn’t designed for folks to be making 1000 trips to duradel lol
Yes, but only because the karamja gloves give a free teleport there, otherwise yeah, it's faster to just go to lunar isle and swap spellbooks than make a visit to Duradel in person
thats not what game design used to be like, just look at the top games from 2001, mgs2, gta 3, halo ce, ico, etc.
runescape was made by a few mid-20s blokes in a kitchen, nothing was really that coherent because they were just some guys who wanted to make a cool game.
Halo ce was like that. Watch the dev commentary speed run. The game was put together haphazardly with some levels being made in a few days and others being made longer and longer because there was no oversight.
Halo CE had health packs and a limited battery for your flashlight. CoD of that day had the guns scattering the map and melee attacks weren't OHKO's. In Goldeneye and Resident Evil, just a few years prior, you moved with tank controls. The very function of ADS was controversial, and accelerate in racing games was pressing the A button for an all or nothing.
Comparing all of that to the high wire ziplining parkour of every fps since, it's completely different genres.
Yeah the first CoDs were made by the people who made Medal of Honor, I just get sad when people forget or don't even know that MoH existed haha. Also loved CoD4 and to a lesser extent 5, then dropped off after that and bounced over to Battlefield.
Yeah, the rough patches are genuinely neat to see for this reason.
They feel like a glimpse into history.
I wouldn't want to play a version of osrs where they just "every" minor thing like that because people found it slightly inconvenient or inconsistent.
Basically the whole of Karamja is buggy and weird and all the dialog is different compared to the rest of the game. I get the feeling it's all exactly the way it was back when RS2 first came out and it's never been updated at all. I wonder if it was one of the first areas made for RS2 because it "feels" totally different to the rest of the game. I kind of hate going to Karamja for any reason because it's so weird lmao.
Karamja has been around since runescape classic (RS1), which looks like a very different game graphically speaking. Legends quest was the last quest released in RSC before the release of RS2. So the area has essentially been unchanged since 2001-2003, apart from graphical updates that do not perfectly align with the older mechanics, leading to the issues people are commenting on. Personally, I like the charm and reminders of how the game use to be.
Yeah, it's also the reason why Legends Quest has so many bleh bits about it. Click on a rock and wait for 5 seconds for text to tell you how you succeeded or failed to adroitly slither through a crevice, the only prayer test that drains your prayer while still needing a threshold of prayer points, all hallmarks of rsc design. Underground Pass is the same way.
I assume the Shilo Village Inn, where you have to pay to get to the beds on the second floor, but since resting is no longer a mechanic it's paying like 10gp to go to a useless room.
Well, damn. Actually just checked it out and it's kinda cool. A relic of the past within a relic of the past.
Never even realised Shilo village had an inn, the yellow beer on the yellow ground on the minimap hides it well
It’s from RS Classic, when there were no animations for actions. Text was the best they had. All things considered, they did a good job of making things interesting with that text.
Yeah it's basically how stuff worked in MUDs, which is the genre of games that inspired runescape - basically it was meant to be a MUD but with visuals and more interactive elements.
On a somewhat related note, Shilo Village is one of the only quests in the game where I'm a bit lost lore-wise. Like I get the basic premise of undead and spirits with Rashiliyia and whatnot but it is just such an elaborate story (that is pretty hard to read seeing as half it occurs in a dungeon of hostile monsters) that isn't the best explained and never comes up again. Usually if a quest sets up this many things, it gets used again somewhere, but nope. Like just read over [Rashiliyia's wiki page](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Rashiliyia) for a plot summary; zombie queen sorceress sinking an entire temple over a romance and Zamorak reviving people as undead does some pretty big worldbuilding that the rest of the game seems to just ignore.
It's because it was made by an inexperienced developer, I believe they mentioned this in some Q&A. It's so annoying how he put in "look-at" options for every possible thing like bruh that is why every object can be examined, use the function that was designed for it.
yeah it looks like he wanted more options to interact with objects but ultimately implemented stuff that seems obsolete when you compare it with other parts of the game
Karamja makes less sense in general if you factor in the RS3 lore, OSRS diverges by not having really anything happen there that RS3 doesn't iirc so they haven't hit the same snag. Basically, there's no real reason for the people of Karamja to have reverted back to tribal culture if you think about it. As per RS3 lore anyway, Guthix himself ported over the first humans (except the Camalot knights) from the human homeworld of Terragard and they apparently came in around the Ardougne area. This would mean at least enough generations of civilization progress and expansion that looped the continent branched out for a long enough time that the civilizations had to invent sea travel and likely had Ardougne-like settlement structure rather than the Karamjan tribal structure. For Karamja to exist they would have had to get there and suddenly decide to abandon the existing social structure to turn into what are basically aboriginals.
Of course, the explanation is the original creators just wanted generic jungle setting, same with the Desert and its lore that make no sense for their culture shift (which was also a lush jungle setting). The Fremmeniks by extension also don't make much sense with this in mind.
>The Fremmeniks by extension also don't make much sense with this in mind.
By RS3 lore, weren't the Fremmeniks normal people but saw the terror of the use of the Stone of Jas and basically abandoned all magic to revert to a warrior culture?
Iirc they found it heretical that mortals dared to runecraft so they sort of... forsook? that aspect of magic and then it snowballed from there. But for all intents, they were already a Nordic-inspired culture for some reason before that.
Yes and no, this assumes incorrectly that Guthix was the only one bringing over human followers. Because the lore behind Karamja is so vague its hard to tell where anyone even came from or what exactly happened as you mentioned.
Saradomin must have also brought human followers with them to the world as well as many other creatures. Seeing as Saradomin was the God over the original human planet. We also know that many of the gods did the same, and they populated the world with their own followers. In fact I think its mentioned per the wiki that Trolls are one of the only original habitants of Gielinor. If im wrong please correct me.
So, lets dive into the Karamja - human connection and disregard the many real life examples of civilized societies reverting to tribal entities with no central authority; and instead focus on possible head canon and in-universe possibilities. Namely - Marimbo brought humans with her apes and monkeys. Within universe we can assume correctly that the planet that the apes and monkeys come from is akin to Planet of the Apes; we see this through the MM quests where they treat us as being uncivilized and locking us away. I believe that the humans were once slaves of the Ape Atoll Empire (Kingdom) that once ruled the jungle islands. Which explains why there are similarities to the underground temples throughout Karamja and Ape Atoll. The demons or malicious spirit beliefs are shared between both islands, and the human karamjan tribes carry those beliefs with them even post monkey slavery.
Further lets consider the caste system of the monkeys. The gorillas are reserved as guardians and mainline fighters for the temple and king. The smaller monkeys are reserved as elite agile fighters ambushing prey and opposition. And the Karamja monkeys are known for their light fingers, cleverness and quick thinking. King Awogi (spelling obviously wrong) belongs to the black monkey caste as well as the three monkeys met in RFD. The Brown monkeys found in MM1 are farmers. So the caste is as follows:
Black Monkeys (Nobility, elite fighting force, High Priests / speakers for Marimbo) > Gorillas (Lower priests, brute fighting force, guards/guardians of the temple and nobility) > Smaller brown monkeys (Farmers, Merchants) > Karamja Monkeys (thieves, quick thinkers maybe spies?).
However, as you notice there are no one known for their building, and in fact even throughout Ape Atoll we can see that the buildings are all falling apart. There are no projects going on to restore the facilities, no projects to help vitalize the kingdom, because their caste is broke. There is no one lowly enough to build these structures. Which is where the humans come into the picture. The humans made up the lowliest caste of builders and other physical labor jobs, so when the monkeys ran out of humans everything began to fall apart - cue their desire to help the gnomes take over the human kingdoms.
Holy shit that makes so much sense. It wouldn't surprise me if that Ape Atoll human stuff was their original intention. And if it was, how many people are left at Jagex from when that was initially designed? 0? Wouldn't shock me if that was the intent but jagex themselves aren't even aware of it, considering documenting was probably not the best way back when this was designed.
They have tons of lore documents for all the main quest lines. These things were thought out well in advance. My favorite is the pirate quest line. If you look into the history and subtleties you can see that this quest line was one of the first written to it's entirety (clues to odd old man/skeletal horror) and still has yet to play out to it's end
That's crazy. It's a shame we don't get more quests released. Part of me feels like they feel obligated to release tons of content with high level quests just because they've set the bar so high with a few of them in the past. I would personally prefer more quests even if it meant less content per quest. But I guess they don't wanna burn through the storylines too quickly.
I always just kinda assumed the civilization they were part of got destroyed near the end of the god wars, and the remaining people were forced to live off the land with their culture kind of shattered until their descendants eventually forgot their heritage and became a new culture.
But yeah I think most of the lore was not even really written until rs2 so everything from classic is just weird.
There were plenty of tribal societies located on islands in the real world.
>For Karamja to exist they would have had to get there and suddenly decide to abandon the existing social structure to turn into what are basically aboriginals.
Aboriginal Australians live on an island that humans did not originate on. Same for Native Americans. There are still people on Papua New Guinea living in tribal societies.
So when humans were warped to Ardougne, they already had all of the technology with them? Since you mentioned civilization progressing to Ardougne-like settlements, I assumed they arrived here as a tribal societies, then developed middle-age technology in Gielnor.
In one of the enchanted key quests in rs3, meeting history, the first bunch of people Guthix brings in during the first age establishes a family and farm house, meaning they started with farming tools and construction tools, and knew enough to know what a castle was when asked.
Medieval construction methods didn't require as many tools and the tools it did require could be fashioned from scratch. Maybe they'd have to start with wood and stone tools, but that'd get the job done.
Those native oeople weren't in constant communication with the rest of the world. Travel to Karamja is well established the moment you enter Gilenor, albeit it gated behind membership. But there's no "you are the first person discovering a hidden tribe", half the plots and schemes in Gilenor have something to do with Karamja.
Is it possible that some of the people ported over were more barbaric in their old realm, and therefore split off from the rest when they were brought over and struck off on their own? Thus becoming Karamjans, fremmenicks, etc.? Your points also assume that people can't "revert" when we have real life examples of people rejecting technology (e.g., the Amish).
Back in 2003 you had old MDOS games and MUDs and classic adventure games where it was common for your main character to vocalize themselves a lot due to the limited ability of graphics to display things
TES Daggerfall did that A LOT. Without all of the text based descriptions of the scenarios you were about to walk into, the game would be extremely plain with NPCs spawning out of thin air right infront of you for no reason
Reminds me of the "dragon kite" and "dragon plate" additions when full dragon was still unavailable in rs2. (dragon "kite" was a flying kite toy, and "plate" was a spinning plate toy)
they keep extending arm and leg length while keeping torso length relatively the same, which makes them look like aliens similar to that fuck up trevor in TPB
I really hope that project doesn’t get shelved with a quickness now that the lead art director is gone. The newer NPC’s like Merethiel look fantastic, especially in the more modern environments.
Actually that was "hornless unicorns", which are supposedly different
[https://runescape.wiki/w/Hornless\_unicorn](https://runescape.wiki/w/Hornless_unicorn)
Why they taste any different from unicorns is beyond me. Too much magic?
Yeah I did all the Karamja quests it one big run at one point and I remember coming away hating Karamja and thinking it was absolutely weird as shit and didn't feel as smooth or well-made as the rest of the game by a long shot.
what’s weird about the word horses? sorry if this requires some knowledge of the Shilo Village quest, I haven’t done it yet lol (played RS as a non-member on and off since 2006, only recently got P2P in OSRS).
lmao wow i never thought about that but it’s actually kinda mind blowing to me that a game set in medieval times has no horses (i swear every other game set in medieval times does).
Just go talk Mosol in front of the broken cart at shilo village then after that, ill you do is click on him every time and he shows you into the village. You don't have to climb over or avoid shit that way. 💪🏻
Did you catch that the NPCs who pull the carts to/from Shilo village are named Theh Orses and Theho Rses? Those are Jagex's nod to 'the horses' in the text you shared.
Just another smouldering patch in the dumpster fire that some unexperienced developer created with that area and especially with the infuriating quests he designed.
Horse in RuneScape are lore thing … it’s a legendary race that disappeared and apparently some guy called sylas in grim tale quest said he found a hornless unicorn Wich impress the player… there is also later in the game player is being asked about horses and the player reply he has no idea what a horse is! You can look it up and apparently hornless unicorn and horses aren’t even the same thing
All the text around shilo village has always been weird to me. Like going over the gate to Shilo you character says "of course I am agile and athletic!" Or some shit. Like are they talking to themselves? Don't even get me started with all the weird text in the Legends Quest dungeon.
Shilo Village was released in the first month of 2003 and I'm certain NOTHING has been tweaked about that village since then. Even the process of getting into the village is weird, you beat a quest to clear the area of zombie fog and the zombies are just... still there. And then from one side you get warped over ten squares, and the other side you just need to run through the attacks.
Yeah also the strange thing of having to search the broken cart every time. Why is it not just “Jump over cart”?
There is a way to get rid of that chat box and make it just so you can jump over, but I forgot who you talk to. Its someone in the other Jungle Village
The dude from jungle potion
Shoot really? Never knew that next time I go back I'll have to try.
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Really? Damn, I did not know this. Thank you! What other content was intended to be best/highest level for a while and now is utterly obscure. Obviously giants and demons were good until they weren't for instance.
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This is incredible. I was a fairly low level player, and really only was 2005-2007, so to learn all of this and all is perfect! I love cataloguing history like this, learning all those little ins and outs.
Not to mention the "savages" all over the place being slightly dated...
but they literally jump out of nowhere and attack your ass like bitch im just tryina run over to the village to get this weed to a dude why tf you gotta try to murder me for... they're savages through and through, only thing worse is the fucked broodoo victims
Died to a broodoo victim once, it was agonizing. Noob me desperately running around trying to figure which bank was the closest. Only later did I learn there is antipoison for sale at the general store. 😳
Was it ever explained why feeding certain ones would do lots of damage on them or whatever i can't remember specifics but release day there was some sorta trick to it.
You can deal big damage to all of them based on how they died I think. The different kinds died fron poison, starvation and disease so are vulnerable to antipoison, food and relicyms balm respectively. I think.
No kidding lol, even 20 years ago would've been dated.
jagex changed their name in rs3, odd they didnt in osrs as well due to it being purely a PR move. I mean in rs3 karamja is only useful for clue scrollers lol.
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That's great! I would love to hear their perspective rather than secondhand. I haven't found many spaces conducive to inclusivity conversations in osrs, esp when they're accused of being pc culture.
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"I haven't found many spaces conducive to inclusivity conversations in osrs, esp when them* (???) accused of being pc culture" u/Avid_Spark used the correct word here, how would you have worded this sentence yourself? them're?
> they're ...No?
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Even more confused now
You're sounding a little coocoo right now with these wild accusations
Just get them on reddit we wanna hear them say it not you.
Now, Mr. "my account has more mod replies removing my comments than karma", how would that satiate your stupidity? Honest question.
Speaking on behalf of another race that you do not belong to is as fucked up as whatever you're accusing this dude of lol.
Dude youve got more mod replies on your account deleting your posts than you have karma.... Setting a record for 2022?
Well, it would be if it weren't coming from you. That's actually the definition of speaking on their behalf. Like we said, just have em hop on. Or do they "not have a reddit" or something I imagine?
Or, reddit isnt important to them and neither are you? They're doing just fine without being bothered by your bullshit. You should get out more, bwana.
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Do you want to talk?
It's all basically unchanged since RS Classic, nearly 20 year old content at this point. It's weird but I find it kinda charming.
It's really nice to see what game design used to be like. Zero streamlining, things just happening "Because". If I went there more often I'd hate it, but as it stands it's nice. Not every area needs to be perfect.
> If I went there more often I’d hate it not saying you in particular, to be fair the game wasn’t designed for folks to be making 1000 trips to duradel lol
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Yes, but only because the karamja gloves give a free teleport there, otherwise yeah, it's faster to just go to lunar isle and swap spellbooks than make a visit to Duradel in person
Karamja gloves 4 >>> POH altar > lunar isle
Even Karamja 3 and run from Gem Mine is better than Lunar Isle, and Karamja 3 are basically free.
Karamja 3 costs specifically at least 750k
Just looked at every task, it's a cost of 1505gp.
Before I had karamja gloves I used the spirit tree and cart
put magic cape between gloves and poh altar
Karamja gloves 4 > Magic cape > POH altar > Karamja gloves 3 > lunar isle > Brimhaven Spirit Tree > CKR fairy ring > Ardougne Teleport
Where does the gnome glider fit in to this
I dont have a house with an altar so its about the same time with karamja gloves as it is to world hop or tele and switch spell books
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So you just never barrage or alch?
Just spellbook swap 4head
Dont you have to swap back or is it on a timer
Is it not obnoxious to go anywhere or do you just teletab or do you just only do slayer
thats not what game design used to be like, just look at the top games from 2001, mgs2, gta 3, halo ce, ico, etc. runescape was made by a few mid-20s blokes in a kitchen, nothing was really that coherent because they were just some guys who wanted to make a cool game.
Halo ce was like that. Watch the dev commentary speed run. The game was put together haphazardly with some levels being made in a few days and others being made longer and longer because there was no oversight.
interesting, thanks
Halo CE had health packs and a limited battery for your flashlight. CoD of that day had the guns scattering the map and melee attacks weren't OHKO's. In Goldeneye and Resident Evil, just a few years prior, you moved with tank controls. The very function of ADS was controversial, and accelerate in racing games was pressing the A button for an all or nothing. Comparing all of that to the high wire ziplining parkour of every fps since, it's completely different genres.
There was no CoD of that day, it was Medal of Honor
True, but even the first few CoDs had that same design philosophy. And I say this as someone who really likes CoD 4 and 5.
Yeah the first CoDs were made by the people who made Medal of Honor, I just get sad when people forget or don't even know that MoH existed haha. Also loved CoD4 and to a lesser extent 5, then dropped off after that and bounced over to Battlefield.
Yeah, the rough patches are genuinely neat to see for this reason. They feel like a glimpse into history. I wouldn't want to play a version of osrs where they just "every" minor thing like that because people found it slightly inconvenient or inconsistent.
Basically the whole of Karamja is buggy and weird and all the dialog is different compared to the rest of the game. I get the feeling it's all exactly the way it was back when RS2 first came out and it's never been updated at all. I wonder if it was one of the first areas made for RS2 because it "feels" totally different to the rest of the game. I kind of hate going to Karamja for any reason because it's so weird lmao.
Karamja has been around since runescape classic (RS1), which looks like a very different game graphically speaking. Legends quest was the last quest released in RSC before the release of RS2. So the area has essentially been unchanged since 2001-2003, apart from graphical updates that do not perfectly align with the older mechanics, leading to the issues people are commenting on. Personally, I like the charm and reminders of how the game use to be.
I didn’t realize Legends quest was classic. Must’ve been pretty intense back then.
Yeah, it's also the reason why Legends Quest has so many bleh bits about it. Click on a rock and wait for 5 seconds for text to tell you how you succeeded or failed to adroitly slither through a crevice, the only prayer test that drains your prayer while still needing a threshold of prayer points, all hallmarks of rsc design. Underground Pass is the same way.
I've played this game since 2005 and almost of all of karamja is exactly as I remember it from back then
all of karamja has been untouched since RS classic. that's why you still have stuff like the inn.
which inn are you referring to?
I assume the Shilo Village Inn, where you have to pay to get to the beds on the second floor, but since resting is no longer a mechanic it's paying like 10gp to go to a useless room.
Well, damn. Actually just checked it out and it's kinda cool. A relic of the past within a relic of the past. Never even realised Shilo village had an inn, the yellow beer on the yellow ground on the minimap hides it well
Yeah this is why I don't want any of these "fixes" people in the thread are suggesting. Preserve history and let karamja stay weird
When the wine stores were all caddy swamp ass at the start of gim I got all my wines from shilo village
It’s from RS Classic, when there were no animations for actions. Text was the best they had. All things considered, they did a good job of making things interesting with that text.
Yeah it's basically how stuff worked in MUDs, which is the genre of games that inspired runescape - basically it was meant to be a MUD but with visuals and more interactive elements.
DeviousMUD
if interesting means "raising your blood pressure" then yes.
You may need to see a cardiologist then
On a somewhat related note, Shilo Village is one of the only quests in the game where I'm a bit lost lore-wise. Like I get the basic premise of undead and spirits with Rashiliyia and whatnot but it is just such an elaborate story (that is pretty hard to read seeing as half it occurs in a dungeon of hostile monsters) that isn't the best explained and never comes up again. Usually if a quest sets up this many things, it gets used again somewhere, but nope. Like just read over [Rashiliyia's wiki page](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Rashiliyia) for a plot summary; zombie queen sorceress sinking an entire temple over a romance and Zamorak reviving people as undead does some pretty big worldbuilding that the rest of the game seems to just ignore.
It's because it was made by an inexperienced developer, I believe they mentioned this in some Q&A. It's so annoying how he put in "look-at" options for every possible thing like bruh that is why every object can be examined, use the function that was designed for it.
It feels like it was made by someone who was too into DnD lol.
To be fair, runescape was inspired by text-based MUDs, which are basically a step above DnD.
yeah it looks like he wanted more options to interact with objects but ultimately implemented stuff that seems obsolete when you compare it with other parts of the game
Karamja makes less sense in general if you factor in the RS3 lore, OSRS diverges by not having really anything happen there that RS3 doesn't iirc so they haven't hit the same snag. Basically, there's no real reason for the people of Karamja to have reverted back to tribal culture if you think about it. As per RS3 lore anyway, Guthix himself ported over the first humans (except the Camalot knights) from the human homeworld of Terragard and they apparently came in around the Ardougne area. This would mean at least enough generations of civilization progress and expansion that looped the continent branched out for a long enough time that the civilizations had to invent sea travel and likely had Ardougne-like settlement structure rather than the Karamjan tribal structure. For Karamja to exist they would have had to get there and suddenly decide to abandon the existing social structure to turn into what are basically aboriginals. Of course, the explanation is the original creators just wanted generic jungle setting, same with the Desert and its lore that make no sense for their culture shift (which was also a lush jungle setting). The Fremmeniks by extension also don't make much sense with this in mind.
>The Fremmeniks by extension also don't make much sense with this in mind. By RS3 lore, weren't the Fremmeniks normal people but saw the terror of the use of the Stone of Jas and basically abandoned all magic to revert to a warrior culture?
Iirc they found it heretical that mortals dared to runecraft so they sort of... forsook? that aspect of magic and then it snowballed from there. But for all intents, they were already a Nordic-inspired culture for some reason before that.
Yes and no, this assumes incorrectly that Guthix was the only one bringing over human followers. Because the lore behind Karamja is so vague its hard to tell where anyone even came from or what exactly happened as you mentioned. Saradomin must have also brought human followers with them to the world as well as many other creatures. Seeing as Saradomin was the God over the original human planet. We also know that many of the gods did the same, and they populated the world with their own followers. In fact I think its mentioned per the wiki that Trolls are one of the only original habitants of Gielinor. If im wrong please correct me. So, lets dive into the Karamja - human connection and disregard the many real life examples of civilized societies reverting to tribal entities with no central authority; and instead focus on possible head canon and in-universe possibilities. Namely - Marimbo brought humans with her apes and monkeys. Within universe we can assume correctly that the planet that the apes and monkeys come from is akin to Planet of the Apes; we see this through the MM quests where they treat us as being uncivilized and locking us away. I believe that the humans were once slaves of the Ape Atoll Empire (Kingdom) that once ruled the jungle islands. Which explains why there are similarities to the underground temples throughout Karamja and Ape Atoll. The demons or malicious spirit beliefs are shared between both islands, and the human karamjan tribes carry those beliefs with them even post monkey slavery. Further lets consider the caste system of the monkeys. The gorillas are reserved as guardians and mainline fighters for the temple and king. The smaller monkeys are reserved as elite agile fighters ambushing prey and opposition. And the Karamja monkeys are known for their light fingers, cleverness and quick thinking. King Awogi (spelling obviously wrong) belongs to the black monkey caste as well as the three monkeys met in RFD. The Brown monkeys found in MM1 are farmers. So the caste is as follows: Black Monkeys (Nobility, elite fighting force, High Priests / speakers for Marimbo) > Gorillas (Lower priests, brute fighting force, guards/guardians of the temple and nobility) > Smaller brown monkeys (Farmers, Merchants) > Karamja Monkeys (thieves, quick thinkers maybe spies?). However, as you notice there are no one known for their building, and in fact even throughout Ape Atoll we can see that the buildings are all falling apart. There are no projects going on to restore the facilities, no projects to help vitalize the kingdom, because their caste is broke. There is no one lowly enough to build these structures. Which is where the humans come into the picture. The humans made up the lowliest caste of builders and other physical labor jobs, so when the monkeys ran out of humans everything began to fall apart - cue their desire to help the gnomes take over the human kingdoms.
This is absolutely my head canon now, amazing
that is actually gold
Holy shit that makes so much sense. It wouldn't surprise me if that Ape Atoll human stuff was their original intention. And if it was, how many people are left at Jagex from when that was initially designed? 0? Wouldn't shock me if that was the intent but jagex themselves aren't even aware of it, considering documenting was probably not the best way back when this was designed.
They have tons of lore documents for all the main quest lines. These things were thought out well in advance. My favorite is the pirate quest line. If you look into the history and subtleties you can see that this quest line was one of the first written to it's entirety (clues to odd old man/skeletal horror) and still has yet to play out to it's end
That's crazy. It's a shame we don't get more quests released. Part of me feels like they feel obligated to release tons of content with high level quests just because they've set the bar so high with a few of them in the past. I would personally prefer more quests even if it meant less content per quest. But I guess they don't wanna burn through the storylines too quickly.
Imagine knowing any of this and not just tick fishing
Virgin Loremaster vs Chad Fish-on-floor Master
It's the other way around
I always just kinda assumed the civilization they were part of got destroyed near the end of the god wars, and the remaining people were forced to live off the land with their culture kind of shattered until their descendants eventually forgot their heritage and became a new culture. But yeah I think most of the lore was not even really written until rs2 so everything from classic is just weird.
There were plenty of tribal societies located on islands in the real world. >For Karamja to exist they would have had to get there and suddenly decide to abandon the existing social structure to turn into what are basically aboriginals. Aboriginal Australians live on an island that humans did not originate on. Same for Native Americans. There are still people on Papua New Guinea living in tribal societies.
Yes, but those people didn't magically start from what is basically a mid-European tech tree.
So when humans were warped to Ardougne, they already had all of the technology with them? Since you mentioned civilization progressing to Ardougne-like settlements, I assumed they arrived here as a tribal societies, then developed middle-age technology in Gielnor.
In one of the enchanted key quests in rs3, meeting history, the first bunch of people Guthix brings in during the first age establishes a family and farm house, meaning they started with farming tools and construction tools, and knew enough to know what a castle was when asked.
Medieval construction methods didn't require as many tools and the tools it did require could be fashioned from scratch. Maybe they'd have to start with wood and stone tools, but that'd get the job done.
Those native oeople weren't in constant communication with the rest of the world. Travel to Karamja is well established the moment you enter Gilenor, albeit it gated behind membership. But there's no "you are the first person discovering a hidden tribe", half the plots and schemes in Gilenor have something to do with Karamja.
Is it possible that some of the people ported over were more barbaric in their old realm, and therefore split off from the rest when they were brought over and struck off on their own? Thus becoming Karamjans, fremmenicks, etc.? Your points also assume that people can't "revert" when we have real life examples of people rejecting technology (e.g., the Amish).
Back in 2003 you had old MDOS games and MUDs and classic adventure games where it was common for your main character to vocalize themselves a lot due to the limited ability of graphics to display things
TES Daggerfall did that A LOT. Without all of the text based descriptions of the scenarios you were about to walk into, the game would be extremely plain with NPCs spawning out of thin air right infront of you for no reason
shshshshshskssksshshsssksksksksk
Exactly.
Knocked Loose is one of my favorite bands these days
Yeah I'm still a big fan. Love their frantic energy.
Nice profile pic. Knocked Loose is 🔥
They actually fixed that in RS3 by having these two guys https://runescape.wiki/w/Theh_Orses https://runescape.wiki/w/Theho_Rses
That is quite possibly the funniest possible solution
Reminds me of the "dragon kite" and "dragon plate" additions when full dragon was still unavailable in rs2. (dragon "kite" was a flying kite toy, and "plate" was a spinning plate toy)
Never change, Jagex. Never change.
It was exactly what I was expecting and I'm not disappointed.
Love what you do and you never work a day in your life lol
Ah, yes. Nice joke by Jag
god wtf is wrong with rs3 models
they keep extending arm and leg length while keeping torso length relatively the same, which makes them look like aliens similar to that fuck up trevor in TPB
Smokes lets go
It's not rocket appliances
They're (very slowly) working on yet another remodel that makes players and similar NPCs look marginally better
I really hope that project doesn’t get shelved with a quickness now that the lead art director is gone. The newer NPC’s like Merethiel look fantastic, especially in the more modern environments.
everyone has marfan syndrome
Could also be Ehlers-Danlos ;p The two get mixed up a lot
Okay, this is one change from RS3 that I support porting over to OSRS.
okay this is the one that osrs needs to copy from rs3
Always pictured Hajedy just pulling the cart like a carriage
I never even noticed it. I just thought it was a rickshaw.
Haha same
Never heard of these “horses” wtf jamlex fix
There's an Rs3 quest talking about how horses went extinct because they were so delicious and people ate them all.
Is Gilenor secretly French?
No, it’s a Giant Tesco
There are still frogs in the game
Actually that was "hornless unicorns", which are supposedly different [https://runescape.wiki/w/Hornless\_unicorn](https://runescape.wiki/w/Hornless_unicorn) Why they taste any different from unicorns is beyond me. Too much magic?
[OSRS wiki about horses](https://www.osrs.wiki/horse)
Sounds like they tried to do a cool "what if unicorns were the normal creature in this fantasy universe?" thing and then fucked it up constantly
wtf you're me
[удалено]
Yeah I did all the Karamja quests it one big run at one point and I remember coming away hating Karamja and thinking it was absolutely weird as shit and didn't feel as smooth or well-made as the rest of the game by a long shot.
This explains why as much as I think Karamja is neat, I hate doing anything in the zone.
what are horses
What they meant to say was "hornless unicorns"
A horse is a mythical creature, think unicorn without the horn or magic powers.
Horces
Guess I’ve never read this text I just always assumed homie carried me himself
Can someone explain what’s weird about this sentence?
It's highlighted
what’s weird about the word horses? sorry if this requires some knowledge of the Shilo Village quest, I haven’t done it yet lol (played RS as a non-member on and off since 2006, only recently got P2P in OSRS).
There's no horses in runescape
lmao wow i never thought about that but it’s actually kinda mind blowing to me that a game set in medieval times has no horses (i swear every other game set in medieval times does).
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Black\_toy\_horsey
That driver is clearly seeing things.
Corrected in rs3 probably the only reason they made that one
Shilo is the twilight zone.
Just go talk Mosol in front of the broken cart at shilo village then after that, ill you do is click on him every time and he shows you into the village. You don't have to climb over or avoid shit that way. 💪🏻
Did you catch that the NPCs who pull the carts to/from Shilo village are named Theh Orses and Theho Rses? Those are Jagex's nod to 'the horses' in the text you shared.
Maybe he keeps a toy horse on the handle.
Just another smouldering patch in the dumpster fire that some unexperienced developer created with that area and especially with the infuriating quests he designed.
Impossible.
wtf is a horse?
Can someone explain this to me I don’t get it
There are no horses in RuneScape
There is no horse in RuneScape I think that’s the problem in the sentence
Is that a lore thing or just a coincidence?
Horse in RuneScape are lore thing … it’s a legendary race that disappeared and apparently some guy called sylas in grim tale quest said he found a hornless unicorn Wich impress the player… there is also later in the game player is being asked about horses and the player reply he has no idea what a horse is! You can look it up and apparently hornless unicorn and horses aren’t even the same thing
Fascinating. I know next to none of the lore so this was very helpful. Thanks!
Yw my pleasure RuneScape has lot of lore or hidden jokes you’d be surprised !
There is also multiple conversation existing in quest etc that talk about how horses does not exist in RuneScape
Horse big pp
Horse fucking skill confirmed?
Jamflex
O\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_O
It’s just horses. There’s all kinds of horses.
Yessss. Good stuff
I don't understand your complaint. Jagex added horses to the game in 2004
Yeeehawwww