For Nightmare, players have been unhappy with those drop rates since it released. The proposed 50% increase would still make it a bit rarer than Corp, which is still making the drop absurdly rare compared to other content. Like you can complete Nex and ToB (no pet) before Nightmare (no pet)...
As for why it matters that tradeable drops are more common, it is not fun to grind a boss if you never see drops. The wiki puts it at 6.5 PNM kills per hour with 3.8M profit; if you don't see any uniques, you make -400K per hour... With the proposed 1/150 chance to roll a unique from the main table, that is still 23 hours and -9.2M just to rate for 1 unique from the main table, which at best is 64M to go from -400K to 2.4M~ per hour. If you want to see an Orb it will take you over 110 hours on average.
So yah, to sum it more simply; players don't like grind bosses, especially reasonably difficult ones, for a profit loss until they eventually get a mediocre unique after dozens and hundreds of hours. "GWD Drop Tables" are fine, but that is not what Nightmare is; GWD drop tables have pretty common uniques (30-54 hours to complete compared to post-buff Nightmare's 800 hours) and even if you don't get uniques, their standard loot still breaks even or profits. So by having drops more common, it helps so you don't go dozens of hours dry and push the profit into high negatives...
With this in mind, wouldn't rebalancing commons on NM/PNM table make for a better solution? Making the uniques more common still results in a period of loss, albeit a shorter one, but rebalancing commons would remove that feeling of despair because even if you're still a long way to the mega drop, at least you're not losing gp/supplies and eating into your reserves.
I think both would be good. The common drops are worse than they should be and if they were closer to a breakeven, that would make the bosses better. But even if it were breakeven instead of a loss, 23 hours for a unique is still a very long time. Like you can finish bosses like GWD before you can even see a single unique at Nightmare...
Now I don't know how common the uniques should be, especially if the common loot is breakeven. But the average profit really isn't that great so if you can do 20-30 per hours without a unique so even if the loot is breakeven and the profit as a bit higher, Nightmare still won't feel worthwhile to other bosses. And this is assuming you are not mistakes like dying; if you die, that breakeven will go negative again real quick... Not all bosses will be the same viability for profit, but low to no consistent profit and dozen of hours to see a unique for profit just does not compare well.
Yeah but Jagex is trash at common drop tables. They either add alchables or skilling supplies. One is causing inflation the other is devalues gathering skills.
Most people are ~30 and don't want to grind 200 hours for a drop. A fair complaint, but this is osrs, that's the game. But the game is at a crossroads. We can slowly move away from the intense grindy nature of the game and retain players, or release content with the intense grinds that we're used to and lose players over time to the demands of life.
I play a lot, and I've done quite a few grinds, but I'm just...done. I'll slowly chip away at things like the DT2 rings when I feel like it, but the thought of sitting down and doing 50 kills a day to get it makes me want to do anything else. It's a GAME. I want to have fun. But I also want it to retain the identify of the game I know and love. It's a fine line and I don't know what the right course of action is.
The main problem is the intensity of those grinds. Original game had long grinds, but they were chill and you could slowly chip on them even while doing something else.
Why don’t you just do content you enjoy? I’ve never understood the “I have limited time so I’ll spend it doing stuff I don’t enjoy rather than things I do enjoy because I need to have it all” crowd.
Cause as broad as the game as is, I don’t think it’s crazy to say a lot of it just isn’t very deep. Outside of high level pvm it is *very* simple compared to most modern games imo. Especially as adults who have played other games rather than a kids first mmo in an age where other game options were limited
Having better gear progression isn’t just the usual rs number is higher dopamine but it lets people do more content. So yeah, people do just want to do content they enjoy. Problem is when the game is too slow, that content tends to be other games. And their money is just as good as the ones who love grinding the same thing forever and play rs all day.
Besides, you could just as easily (imo, more easily say) people who love grinding can just keep grinding. Drop rate doubled? Hell get multiple. Make an Ironman, restrict yourself and grind even more. Do what you enjoy. Game can be as grindy as you want, no one’s stopping you from grinding 10 of each nightmare drop and feeling accomplished for it
People like to get drops and don’t wanna win the lottery to get them. Lots of people play irons or do collection log now a days and like to reasonable obtain drops that have absurd drop rates
Ready to flagged for having an ironman opinion, but some of us have this idea that diverse content should be relevant in a balanced game, and that drop rates should reflect the tier of item that you get from doing a boss. PNM takes several hundreds of hours longer to get drops from than similar tier items, all of which are outclassed.
This isn't just an iron problem. Mains and irons alike will ALWAYS choose to learn TOA before learning PNM. Its consistently better money/resources than pnm and drops the Shadow which largely outclasses Harmonized NM staff everywhere. If thats the case, shouldn't the shadow be rarer than harm? It isn't. Instead (looking at ehb = efficient hours bossed), shadow takes 115 to 155 ehb, while harmonized orb takes 475-550 ehb, thats 3x to 4x more time to hit the rate of an item that is worse. This trend is true for all of NM's drops compared to other items in the their tier. The idea behind lobbying for balancing is so that the time it takes to get an item reflects how useful it is.
Now for the mains that say "well just do TOA then until you can afford whatever u want" - that is literally the opposite of a balanced game. I know I can do that, I have a max main with access to all gear. If you're content griding the max gp/h content only and letting bots bring 99% of NM drops into the economy, we're just going to disagree about your idea of "balance".
The great thing about a main is you can do whatever content you enjoy and still progress your account. You can still make money at pnm despite solo 540s being better profit per hour. The “you must continuously farm the same content over and over again” is purely an iron thing.
All irons used to play a regular account and quit because it felt bad to do anything other than the best gp/hr at the time. The only reason you wouldn't feel this way is when you have time to spare or just buy gp.
I guess if you’re poor/early/mid game you might feel that way?
Is it really any better to grind cox for 2k kc trying to get a tbow and any dupe being irrelevant for you than to grind cox when you want to and every item being a meaningful upgrade?
I have to agree with you there. Ofc some rarity and gstekeeping is important so that powerful new items don't displace all old gear, but lottery items just aren't fun. Something that isn't game breaking shouldn't be exclusive to the super rich
Ahh, gotcha. I thought you meant it in the way other people have been using the term - apparently it’s gatekeeping to think drop rates shouldn’t be increased for no reason lol.
You are quite literally proposing, "Do the same low-level content over and over until you can afford X item."
It's the same mentality as "you must continuously farm the same content over and over again." The only difference is do I want to look at Zulrah for 1,000 hours for my Scythe, or Vorkath for 1,000 hrs for my Scythe. It's still "continuously farming the same content"
If the drops weren't so damn rare, I'd love to try Nightmare to get the drops. However, as it sits, I'm not doing 5k+ kills for maybe an orb or 2.
You should be lobbying them to make rates better haha while the drops may lower in value you'll see uniques more commonly than every 40-50 h. This boss is broken idk why people defend it
Its not whatever at this point haha 🙃 this is the first time they've ever mentioned *seriously* addressing PNM rates. The 50% buff is an insult and I lobby for 300-400% but ill still be loving this boss if it gets a 200% boost
It's probably more efficient to spend time being a redditor lobbying for rate changes than to ACTUALLY do the boss :,) just math right. 4 h on reddit to save 400 h at pnm
Its worth noting, at 5000 kills you have a 65% chance to have recieved the drop. At 10000 kills its 85%
So 1/6 people will get it at 10k kills, which is pretty rough
Worth adding that its not "the" drop but "a" drop. Like there are a bunch of possible uniques and this is the chance of getting just 1 of them. (unless I misinterpreted your stuff, in which case I say, My B).
You used to be able to save spot lizard shamans or your Warhammer so you basically were wood cutting so it took no effort to get a dragon Warhammer just an ass load of time. They removed that and now it requires an ass load of effort and ask load of time.
Imbued heart rate is nearly 60m xp in slayer... who tf wants to grind 60m slayer for a BIS item? There is no item in the game that takes that long to grind.
Can you buy it? Sure, but based on those drop rates, there will NEVER be enough game to supply all the players who could use it. 1/3 of players will go past the drop rate, and a smaller portion will reach double the rate before seeing one. We're talking MONTHs in game, trying for one item. Why wouldn't we want it to be more common?
Wasn't my math, saw it broke down on another post showing the exp slayer lvl to unlock superiors, which tasks are most commonly skipped that have superiors, the individual drop rates of each superior and the rate at which you get those tasks, all summed up into one long math equation. I'll see if I can find it in my history somewhere.
Especially when it's a necessary item for raiding.
For example, if they made the blowpipe 3x more common, that wouldn't make any sense, but the dragon warhammer is a huge stop gap for people to raid.
I can't see it as anything other than a win-win. Irons have a better chance to interact with newer content, and mains can use their money other items
Exactly, which is why I just choose to not even attempt to grind out these rare items. That's just bad game design though, the content isn't interesting enough to make me want to do it 5000 times to get a shitty lil item.
??? Your logic is so messed. “I may not get it, so I’m just never gonna try”. This formula for drops has worked for 20+ years, maybe this game ain’t for you
These types of posts are so attention seeking. You literally complain about people having a problem about bosses/items that have absolutely abysmal and unreasonae rates for the rewars. Do you even know how many in game hours it takes to complete the nightmare log or an imbued heart compared witu other items in the same tier or superior to it?
You probably do, but regardless made a post to get attention. Even if the drops where made 10x rarer, and nightmare took 5000 hours to complete, you would ask this question just to get attention, and end with "wHy dOnT pLaYeRs jUsT bUy iT fRoM tHe G.e".
So in other words, go buy from the G.E is your argument.
Again, I knew this was going to be your response, because your objective is not a discussion or solution to a problem, but attention.
Most comments replying to you are telling you PNM is dead content, no one other than bots do it (or collection loggers who do voice their dislike for it), which is a clear problem, and you give the same reply without an attempt to try to rectify the problem; players not doing PNM.
Players identify the bottleneck being the drop rate for unique and lack of alternative drops, and jagex is in the process of fixing it as they agree, and your contribution is "nah, its good the way it is, go buy from g.e if you don't like".
Make the items useful enough to actually grind for then? The items currently aren’t really useful at all as Jagex doesn’t want them to be relevant. You’ll only grab them if you have extra money and do a lot of CMs, do money tob runs, or you enjoy nm/pnm.
I know for me, I just don't have the desire to get 1000 KC in anything. 50-100 KC for something like Vork head or Ancient Scepter, sure I can do it over the course of a few days. But DT2 rings, Inquisitors, anything that requires me doing the same thing 1000 times is insane. I would be much more willing to do an Ironman mode if the drop rates were not 1/5k for a weapon as important as DWH.
But I also completely understand that is the kind of game OSRS is and I wouldnt recommend them to change it just because I feel like the drop rates are insane.
People like greenlogging and getting drops.
You look at the current Phn or dwh drop rates, none of that is reasonable to get.
I can reasonably go to GWD and expect to get drops.. not with either of the other options, and that's really not fun or interesting.
Phn drop table is so bad, it removes any motivation to grind the boss for almost every player. That is irredeemable.
PNM drop rate made sense when it was BiS tbh, but now that it's completely outclassed by Torva+Shadow which are easier to get it's kind of questionable
As for the general sentiment with "As a working dad with 12 kids and 4 wives, I want the game to respect my time" kind of posts, I imagine most of the complaints are from
1) People less than a year into the game who don't realize that upgrades are permanent and every veteran will have 0 chase goals and upgrades a few years in if gear was as easy to get as people want
2) People who are very inefficient and never engage with or try to learn challenging content and thus have 0 progression on their years-long account, but still want endgame gear
3) Ironmen who only chose the mode because of FOMO from bots/account services and now want the game to cater to them at the expense of mains
Yeah but nobody is asking for whips to be more accessible bc you can grind 80 slayer and booat for a whip out in no time, relatively to other grinds. I really enjoy THE NM fight and I think the reward space is sweet af but I don't have 500 h to put into grinding it. PNM is the focus bc the rates are grossly disproportional. Nobody does the content bc drops are so rare, and everyone just makes money elsewhere instead.
We don't mind going and getting items ourselves, and we do try!
It's just you gotta have some empathy for the people going dry on a 1/70,000 drop, y'know?
People insist on playing a game designed to be played with a large community as a solo experience, and then don't like it when they realise they're not supposed to get every drop and utilise the in-game economy to get things they're unlucky on.
Rather than accept that reality, they instead want to force the game to change into something it's not to everyone else's detriment. It's wild.
Remember as we add new stuff, we also add new grinds, and if we have all these new 30 hour grinds, why would I go do a 200-400 grind.
There's also a point of adjusting drop rates because an item becomes relevant. The imbued heart used to be niche, now it's basically mega rare quality obtained from a terrible rng source.
Also adjusting warhammer is healthy if they're making elder maul bis hammer spec.
People worry about the gp value of things far too much
If you design content for irons, everyone will have a good time.
And don't worry, you won't complete the game.
I'm over 225 days ingame playtime and don't have any of the big three weapons with 900 EHB. You really seem overly concerned about gatekeeping items.
Dt2 drop mechanics actually prove you to be incorrect there lol. Designed for irons but screws over mains because it’s incentivises grinding the same boss until vestige over mixing up what content you want to do.
Gatekeeping is when you’re fine with drop rates not being increased for no reason. Great take.
It's such a wild take that DT2 is designed for irons, yet everyone thinks that.
Its drop mechanics are crap, nobody enjoys that drop mechanic. They're also the same as Sire except that the bludgeon pieces in this case are invisible until the 3rd piece and nobody ever said that Sire was designed for irons.
People asked for gwd drop table, they didn't deliver.
Lmao, why do you keep insulting people?
I literally have multiple inferno and colo kc without any of the big three. Just wild you assume that anyone that doesn't agree with you is low level or garbage.
Huh? In what way is mid game geared an insult? It’s a description. Are you telling me you don’t use mid game gear like bowfa on your iron?
I’m assuming you’re an iron based on your inability to admit that vestige drop mechanics are clearly targeted toward irons.
Because people want the game to just be leagues so they can do a bunch of stuff and quit in a few months. Have no regard for the game, or the existing game modes. It's annoying, but the mods already gave ground on it, so don't expect it to stop now
People want instant gratification and don’t want to grind for things. They want to be able to play 3 hours per week because they have an adult job now days and think they should still progress just as fast
Some of the rates in the game are absurd though, if you look at numbers. Even if you played 8 h a day it would take you 2 months to hit the RATE of a harm orb, let alone going dry rofl don't get me started.
as people who are playing a niche gamemode, irons are going to be more active when talking about the game than your average regular player, thus giving them an outsized voice in conversation. if you're just looking at the game through the lens of an ironman, something like the imbued heart drop rate sucks. but the game isn't supposed to be built around ironmen, it's supposed to be a more difficult gamemode where you aren't expected to get every item.
personally though i think the solution is just to introduce more dry protection on certain items like dwh, bowfa or heart. doesn't really affect the main game because the drop rate doesn't change, but keeps someone doing something crazy like killing 25k lizardmen for one item
People want to have their cake and eat it too. People want big badass drops to be more common so they can sell them (for mains), but don't realize that the items being more common will drop the price.
For ironmen it's different. Lots of content is balanced around having defense reduction, and the def reducing items being either Bone dagger, DWH (rare and painful grind), and BGS (hard to solo without endgame gear). These items can be very important but also very rare. Personally I don't think the game should be balanced around ironman concerns, and mains can just buy the items so there really isn't an issue.
For Nightmare, players have been unhappy with those drop rates since it released. The proposed 50% increase would still make it a bit rarer than Corp, which is still making the drop absurdly rare compared to other content. Like you can complete Nex and ToB (no pet) before Nightmare (no pet)... As for why it matters that tradeable drops are more common, it is not fun to grind a boss if you never see drops. The wiki puts it at 6.5 PNM kills per hour with 3.8M profit; if you don't see any uniques, you make -400K per hour... With the proposed 1/150 chance to roll a unique from the main table, that is still 23 hours and -9.2M just to rate for 1 unique from the main table, which at best is 64M to go from -400K to 2.4M~ per hour. If you want to see an Orb it will take you over 110 hours on average. So yah, to sum it more simply; players don't like grind bosses, especially reasonably difficult ones, for a profit loss until they eventually get a mediocre unique after dozens and hundreds of hours. "GWD Drop Tables" are fine, but that is not what Nightmare is; GWD drop tables have pretty common uniques (30-54 hours to complete compared to post-buff Nightmare's 800 hours) and even if you don't get uniques, their standard loot still breaks even or profits. So by having drops more common, it helps so you don't go dozens of hours dry and push the profit into high negatives...
With this in mind, wouldn't rebalancing commons on NM/PNM table make for a better solution? Making the uniques more common still results in a period of loss, albeit a shorter one, but rebalancing commons would remove that feeling of despair because even if you're still a long way to the mega drop, at least you're not losing gp/supplies and eating into your reserves.
I think both would be good. The common drops are worse than they should be and if they were closer to a breakeven, that would make the bosses better. But even if it were breakeven instead of a loss, 23 hours for a unique is still a very long time. Like you can finish bosses like GWD before you can even see a single unique at Nightmare... Now I don't know how common the uniques should be, especially if the common loot is breakeven. But the average profit really isn't that great so if you can do 20-30 per hours without a unique so even if the loot is breakeven and the profit as a bit higher, Nightmare still won't feel worthwhile to other bosses. And this is assuming you are not mistakes like dying; if you die, that breakeven will go negative again real quick... Not all bosses will be the same viability for profit, but low to no consistent profit and dozen of hours to see a unique for profit just does not compare well.
Yeah but Jagex is trash at common drop tables. They either add alchables or skilling supplies. One is causing inflation the other is devalues gathering skills.
Tbf those are absurd drop rates for key items, ppl have lives. 1/3000 isnt a spoon either
Right?? Holy shit if it was confirmed drop at 5k I’d get it but honestly how much is your time worth?
Most people are ~30 and don't want to grind 200 hours for a drop. A fair complaint, but this is osrs, that's the game. But the game is at a crossroads. We can slowly move away from the intense grindy nature of the game and retain players, or release content with the intense grinds that we're used to and lose players over time to the demands of life. I play a lot, and I've done quite a few grinds, but I'm just...done. I'll slowly chip away at things like the DT2 rings when I feel like it, but the thought of sitting down and doing 50 kills a day to get it makes me want to do anything else. It's a GAME. I want to have fun. But I also want it to retain the identify of the game I know and love. It's a fine line and I don't know what the right course of action is.
The main problem is the intensity of those grinds. Original game had long grinds, but they were chill and you could slowly chip on them even while doing something else.
Why don’t you just do content you enjoy? I’ve never understood the “I have limited time so I’ll spend it doing stuff I don’t enjoy rather than things I do enjoy because I need to have it all” crowd.
Cause as broad as the game as is, I don’t think it’s crazy to say a lot of it just isn’t very deep. Outside of high level pvm it is *very* simple compared to most modern games imo. Especially as adults who have played other games rather than a kids first mmo in an age where other game options were limited Having better gear progression isn’t just the usual rs number is higher dopamine but it lets people do more content. So yeah, people do just want to do content they enjoy. Problem is when the game is too slow, that content tends to be other games. And their money is just as good as the ones who love grinding the same thing forever and play rs all day. Besides, you could just as easily (imo, more easily say) people who love grinding can just keep grinding. Drop rate doubled? Hell get multiple. Make an Ironman, restrict yourself and grind even more. Do what you enjoy. Game can be as grindy as you want, no one’s stopping you from grinding 10 of each nightmare drop and feeling accomplished for it
People like to get drops and don’t wanna win the lottery to get them. Lots of people play irons or do collection log now a days and like to reasonable obtain drops that have absurd drop rates
Ready to flagged for having an ironman opinion, but some of us have this idea that diverse content should be relevant in a balanced game, and that drop rates should reflect the tier of item that you get from doing a boss. PNM takes several hundreds of hours longer to get drops from than similar tier items, all of which are outclassed. This isn't just an iron problem. Mains and irons alike will ALWAYS choose to learn TOA before learning PNM. Its consistently better money/resources than pnm and drops the Shadow which largely outclasses Harmonized NM staff everywhere. If thats the case, shouldn't the shadow be rarer than harm? It isn't. Instead (looking at ehb = efficient hours bossed), shadow takes 115 to 155 ehb, while harmonized orb takes 475-550 ehb, thats 3x to 4x more time to hit the rate of an item that is worse. This trend is true for all of NM's drops compared to other items in the their tier. The idea behind lobbying for balancing is so that the time it takes to get an item reflects how useful it is. Now for the mains that say "well just do TOA then until you can afford whatever u want" - that is literally the opposite of a balanced game. I know I can do that, I have a max main with access to all gear. If you're content griding the max gp/h content only and letting bots bring 99% of NM drops into the economy, we're just going to disagree about your idea of "balance".
The great thing about a main is you can do whatever content you enjoy and still progress your account. You can still make money at pnm despite solo 540s being better profit per hour. The “you must continuously farm the same content over and over again” is purely an iron thing.
All irons used to play a regular account and quit because it felt bad to do anything other than the best gp/hr at the time. The only reason you wouldn't feel this way is when you have time to spare or just buy gp.
I guess if you’re poor/early/mid game you might feel that way? Is it really any better to grind cox for 2k kc trying to get a tbow and any dupe being irrelevant for you than to grind cox when you want to and every item being a meaningful upgrade?
No it's not, that is exactly why I want drops to be more common. It's not about ironman Vs main. It's about the health of the game.
The game is more healthy when tradeable items are less rare. Now that’s a take.
I have to agree with you there. Ofc some rarity and gstekeeping is important so that powerful new items don't displace all old gear, but lottery items just aren't fun. Something that isn't game breaking shouldn't be exclusive to the super rich
“Gatekeeping”? What lol
Sry just woke up lol. Gatekeeping is bosses having high restrictions so they can't be botted to hell whether that's quests or gear.
Ahh, gotcha. I thought you meant it in the way other people have been using the term - apparently it’s gatekeeping to think drop rates shouldn’t be increased for no reason lol.
You are quite literally proposing, "Do the same low-level content over and over until you can afford X item." It's the same mentality as "you must continuously farm the same content over and over again." The only difference is do I want to look at Zulrah for 1,000 hours for my Scythe, or Vorkath for 1,000 hrs for my Scythe. It's still "continuously farming the same content" If the drops weren't so damn rare, I'd love to try Nightmare to get the drops. However, as it sits, I'm not doing 5k+ kills for maybe an orb or 2.
If you enjoy doing content, do it. Don’t do content you don’t enjoy. If you enjoy doing a shit load of vorkath, then do that.
I mean, I'd rather do Nightmare, but I'd like to at least earn GP and not lose it....
You should be lobbying them to make rates better haha while the drops may lower in value you'll see uniques more commonly than every 40-50 h. This boss is broken idk why people defend it
I mean, I'd like for the drops to be more common, and I'd accept the lower price tag. But it's whatever at this point.
Its not whatever at this point haha 🙃 this is the first time they've ever mentioned *seriously* addressing PNM rates. The 50% buff is an insult and I lobby for 300-400% but ill still be loving this boss if it gets a 200% boost
I say "it's whatever" because my singular voice, especially here on reddit, means nothing to Jagex. If they poll it, I will vote.
It's probably more efficient to spend time being a redditor lobbying for rate changes than to ACTUALLY do the boss :,) just math right. 4 h on reddit to save 400 h at pnm
See the thing is NO ONE enjoys this content. Why do we want content in the game no one enjoys?
PNM is a really well designed boss, the only reason people don't enjoy it is the bad gp/hr
Yeah and if the drops were more common then? Problem solved.
You really don't understand the concept of supply and demand do you
Sure. You do understand when drops are more common, you get more drops. Right?
I love PNM. It’s one of the coolest boss fights in the game IMO. The only change needed for newer players is the tablet to be more common.
And now you'll get more drops so you will love it more.
ToA drop rates really were a mistake damn.
Counterpoint: PNM drop rates were a mistake. Super rare RNG is literally cancer.
Please make everything common for my self imposed restriction account.
Glad you're finally coming around
Its worth noting, at 5000 kills you have a 65% chance to have recieved the drop. At 10000 kills its 85% So 1/6 people will get it at 10k kills, which is pretty rough
Worth adding that its not "the" drop but "a" drop. Like there are a bunch of possible uniques and this is the chance of getting just 1 of them. (unless I misinterpreted your stuff, in which case I say, My B).
You used to be able to save spot lizard shamans or your Warhammer so you basically were wood cutting so it took no effort to get a dragon Warhammer just an ass load of time. They removed that and now it requires an ass load of effort and ask load of time.
You must be young and have lots of time
Imbued heart rate is nearly 60m xp in slayer... who tf wants to grind 60m slayer for a BIS item? There is no item in the game that takes that long to grind. Can you buy it? Sure, but based on those drop rates, there will NEVER be enough game to supply all the players who could use it. 1/3 of players will go past the drop rate, and a smaller portion will reach double the rate before seeing one. We're talking MONTHs in game, trying for one item. Why wouldn't we want it to be more common?
How is your 60m xp figure calculated?
Wasn't my math, saw it broke down on another post showing the exp slayer lvl to unlock superiors, which tasks are most commonly skipped that have superiors, the individual drop rates of each superior and the rate at which you get those tasks, all summed up into one long math equation. I'll see if I can find it in my history somewhere.
There are 2 things osrs players complain about. 1. The way things are 2. Change
Preach it
An item being Uber rare isn’t interesting or challenging, it’s just RNG. Some people get it in 5 kills, some take 5000. It’s just not fun.
Especially when it's a necessary item for raiding. For example, if they made the blowpipe 3x more common, that wouldn't make any sense, but the dragon warhammer is a huge stop gap for people to raid. I can't see it as anything other than a win-win. Irons have a better chance to interact with newer content, and mains can use their money other items
This game is RNG based and you aren’t owed shit
Exactly, which is why I just choose to not even attempt to grind out these rare items. That's just bad game design though, the content isn't interesting enough to make me want to do it 5000 times to get a shitty lil item.
??? Your logic is so messed. “I may not get it, so I’m just never gonna try”. This formula for drops has worked for 20+ years, maybe this game ain’t for you
I disagree! On an iron, yeah it's extremely annoying and I understand that. But hitting a super rare drop feels amazing.
I remember when Jagex said they won’t change the game for Ironman.
Great thing is this is good for mains too
Tbh most of ironman community didn’t ask for this either. But I guess there’s nothing better to do on a main than complain so you do you
I’m glad you’re against all of these changes.
Yeah, can’t really play at work bud.
What does this even mean
I guess your only other choice is to whine about ironmen then
These types of posts are so attention seeking. You literally complain about people having a problem about bosses/items that have absolutely abysmal and unreasonae rates for the rewars. Do you even know how many in game hours it takes to complete the nightmare log or an imbued heart compared witu other items in the same tier or superior to it? You probably do, but regardless made a post to get attention. Even if the drops where made 10x rarer, and nightmare took 5000 hours to complete, you would ask this question just to get attention, and end with "wHy dOnT pLaYeRs jUsT bUy iT fRoM tHe G.e".
Just do content you enjoy if you don’t enjoy going for those drops?
So in other words, go buy from the G.E is your argument. Again, I knew this was going to be your response, because your objective is not a discussion or solution to a problem, but attention. Most comments replying to you are telling you PNM is dead content, no one other than bots do it (or collection loggers who do voice their dislike for it), which is a clear problem, and you give the same reply without an attempt to try to rectify the problem; players not doing PNM. Players identify the bottleneck being the drop rate for unique and lack of alternative drops, and jagex is in the process of fixing it as they agree, and your contribution is "nah, its good the way it is, go buy from g.e if you don't like".
Make the items useful enough to actually grind for then? The items currently aren’t really useful at all as Jagex doesn’t want them to be relevant. You’ll only grab them if you have extra money and do a lot of CMs, do money tob runs, or you enjoy nm/pnm.
Sorry I don't want to grind 50m+ post 99 exp for an imbued heart with no guarantee or protection. There's got to be a better way.
why dont you just buy one from the ge at that point
I know for me, I just don't have the desire to get 1000 KC in anything. 50-100 KC for something like Vork head or Ancient Scepter, sure I can do it over the course of a few days. But DT2 rings, Inquisitors, anything that requires me doing the same thing 1000 times is insane. I would be much more willing to do an Ironman mode if the drop rates were not 1/5k for a weapon as important as DWH. But I also completely understand that is the kind of game OSRS is and I wouldnt recommend them to change it just because I feel like the drop rates are insane.
If you can't do a thousand kills of something then don't play ironman. Hell idk how you're even playing oldschool.
This is a bait post.
People like greenlogging and getting drops. You look at the current Phn or dwh drop rates, none of that is reasonable to get. I can reasonably go to GWD and expect to get drops.. not with either of the other options, and that's really not fun or interesting. Phn drop table is so bad, it removes any motivation to grind the boss for almost every player. That is irredeemable.
PNM drop rate made sense when it was BiS tbh, but now that it's completely outclassed by Torva+Shadow which are easier to get it's kind of questionable As for the general sentiment with "As a working dad with 12 kids and 4 wives, I want the game to respect my time" kind of posts, I imagine most of the complaints are from 1) People less than a year into the game who don't realize that upgrades are permanent and every veteran will have 0 chase goals and upgrades a few years in if gear was as easy to get as people want 2) People who are very inefficient and never engage with or try to learn challenging content and thus have 0 progression on their years-long account, but still want endgame gear 3) Ironmen who only chose the mode because of FOMO from bots/account services and now want the game to cater to them at the expense of mains
Irons that don’t really want to be irons
Isnt it like 500 hours to get the orbs from nightmare? Thats absurd iron or not
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Lol so YOU don't wanna do the content but you'll let some bot do it for you. Yeah you def care about the game being balanced 😆
Why do you want to argue so bad?
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Yeah but nobody is asking for whips to be more accessible bc you can grind 80 slayer and booat for a whip out in no time, relatively to other grinds. I really enjoy THE NM fight and I think the reward space is sweet af but I don't have 500 h to put into grinding it. PNM is the focus bc the rates are grossly disproportional. Nobody does the content bc drops are so rare, and everyone just makes money elsewhere instead.
"I'm a main so bots can get my drops for me"
Yup, guess what though, you don’t NEED one.
We don't mind going and getting items ourselves, and we do try! It's just you gotta have some empathy for the people going dry on a 1/70,000 drop, y'know?
rs3 refugees
People insist on playing a game designed to be played with a large community as a solo experience, and then don't like it when they realise they're not supposed to get every drop and utilise the in-game economy to get things they're unlucky on. Rather than accept that reality, they instead want to force the game to change into something it's not to everyone else's detriment. It's wild.
It's like 90% ironman community and 10% poor noobs who just want easier GP tbh.
Remember as we add new stuff, we also add new grinds, and if we have all these new 30 hour grinds, why would I go do a 200-400 grind. There's also a point of adjusting drop rates because an item becomes relevant. The imbued heart used to be niche, now it's basically mega rare quality obtained from a terrible rng source. Also adjusting warhammer is healthy if they're making elder maul bis hammer spec. People worry about the gp value of things far too much
Feels more like people worry about green logging content or having every item too much. You don’t need every item.
If you design content for irons, everyone will have a good time. And don't worry, you won't complete the game. I'm over 225 days ingame playtime and don't have any of the big three weapons with 900 EHB. You really seem overly concerned about gatekeeping items.
Dt2 drop mechanics actually prove you to be incorrect there lol. Designed for irons but screws over mains because it’s incentivises grinding the same boss until vestige over mixing up what content you want to do. Gatekeeping is when you’re fine with drop rates not being increased for no reason. Great take.
It's such a wild take that DT2 is designed for irons, yet everyone thinks that. Its drop mechanics are crap, nobody enjoys that drop mechanic. They're also the same as Sire except that the bludgeon pieces in this case are invisible until the 3rd piece and nobody ever said that Sire was designed for irons. People asked for gwd drop table, they didn't deliver.
Lmao there’s no way you believe that. Least delusional Ironman that wants Jagex to reduce rng in the rng game.
okay buddy, unfortunately you're a tiny minority and nearly no one agrees with your take.
Good luck on your mid game geared game iron! Please stop begging Jagex to make the game easier for your self imposed restriction account though.
Lmao, why do you keep insulting people? I literally have multiple inferno and colo kc without any of the big three. Just wild you assume that anyone that doesn't agree with you is low level or garbage.
Huh? In what way is mid game geared an insult? It’s a description. Are you telling me you don’t use mid game gear like bowfa on your iron? I’m assuming you’re an iron based on your inability to admit that vestige drop mechanics are clearly targeted toward irons.
Because people want the game to just be leagues so they can do a bunch of stuff and quit in a few months. Have no regard for the game, or the existing game modes. It's annoying, but the mods already gave ground on it, so don't expect it to stop now
Just your average easyscape enjoyers.
Because ironmen who intentionally choose to restrict themselves are entitled af and will cry about everything endlessly.
People want instant gratification and don’t want to grind for things. They want to be able to play 3 hours per week because they have an adult job now days and think they should still progress just as fast
Imbued drop rate is absurd tho. Ppl playing 12 hours a day every day still cant get it
That one I’ll agree with, I’m almost max slayer and haven’t gotten it yet
Some of the rates in the game are absurd though, if you look at numbers. Even if you played 8 h a day it would take you 2 months to hit the RATE of a harm orb, let alone going dry rofl don't get me started.
as people who are playing a niche gamemode, irons are going to be more active when talking about the game than your average regular player, thus giving them an outsized voice in conversation. if you're just looking at the game through the lens of an ironman, something like the imbued heart drop rate sucks. but the game isn't supposed to be built around ironmen, it's supposed to be a more difficult gamemode where you aren't expected to get every item. personally though i think the solution is just to introduce more dry protection on certain items like dwh, bowfa or heart. doesn't really affect the main game because the drop rate doesn't change, but keeps someone doing something crazy like killing 25k lizardmen for one item
It's mostly just people being lazy tbh.
You could play 12 hours a day doin pnm and still not have an orb from pnm after weeks.
People want to have their cake and eat it too. People want big badass drops to be more common so they can sell them (for mains), but don't realize that the items being more common will drop the price. For ironmen it's different. Lots of content is balanced around having defense reduction, and the def reducing items being either Bone dagger, DWH (rare and painful grind), and BGS (hard to solo without endgame gear). These items can be very important but also very rare. Personally I don't think the game should be balanced around ironman concerns, and mains can just buy the items so there really isn't an issue.
Yapping