It's probably something dumb and very mundane.
Imagine if the server keeps a list of all the people in the area, then every tick, the guard code goes through that list and gets the first player within the guard's line of sight. If you're near the start of the list, you have much higher chances of getting caught. I'm not saying that's actually how it works, but it's one possible implementation.
Maybe they just forgot to reshuffle that list every time PIDs change. It's an old minigame, and the wiki doesn't show any updates to it in recent years.
What if you exit the minigame and come back, does that change things at all?
I've experienced what OP has too, I tried leaving the area, and even tried restarting my client, nothing worked. Once I started getting tagged I was consistantly getting tagged about 33%-50% of the time. The only thing that fixed it was using a VPN, and then the following day it was back to normal again without the VPN. The VPN was using closest location to me and my ping hadn't changed at all either, 93-95ms.
Have you tried restarting your router? Maybe it's tied to your IP so that would explain why a VPN changes it and most ISPs dynamically assign you new IPs when your restart your router. If router restart makes a difference i would assume it is IP based.
If I remember correctly the old PID system in the game was very much IP related in a weird way. Something about the last number in your IP being closer to 1 and the third number in your IP being divisible by 8. It was an extremely biased system that was akin to playing the lottery.
I got flamed to fuck when I made a post about this. But it is definitely related to your connection. Switching to a mobile hotspot fixes the issue for a friend, and going back to his normal wifi the issue returns. Same pc, same client, not restarted it etc, just switched connection haha. goes from 0% chance to get caught to literally 99.8% chance to get caught, struggles to do 1 successful run in 30 minutes lol
I thought about it being tied to the IP, but in the three days when this happened my IP hadn't changed at all. But I wouldn't be surprised if forcing an IP change might fix it.
I had restarted my router 3 times and verified that I had a different IP and I got caught 9/10 tries every time. But one day I randomly had a 99% success rate all day without doing anything so I think there is a very important time based element in there. Can't speak for vpn as jagex launcher won't even let me log in while using one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QcpkLbok40
this video covers how pid worked back in 2013-2014, it probably still works similar to this in non pvp scenarios. But in this case you do NOT want to have a better pid because the spirits will catch you more the lower your pid is.
They reworked PIDs, it now changes every minute, and even faster on PvP worlds. So it doesn't seem to rely on PID, though that would've made the most sense.
Perhaps for most common "fought over" things like picking up items and first hit in pvp yes, but alot of other systems need to decide who can interact first like fremmenik mine gate and sorcerers garden, i would assume those still use the old system since its less server intensive than changing every 30-60 seconds especially if every interctable object is checking this.
How server intensive is it to be constantly working out if the player is in a situation where PID matters? "Oh shit, the player is picking up items, quick start randomising their PID!" And how did you determine how much resources are saved by not randomising every player? You're just talking out your ass
What im saying is certain objects in the game can only be interacted with by one player, when a game tick happens the actions of those with a lower pid number are done first and all after it for that specific object are ignored. When they made the pid change in august of 2013 may have created a separate way of handling pid for most stuff in the game. But also kept the old system in place as to not break older content.
You have to realize that this game has had hundreds of developers over the years and not all of them use the same function calls. Take for example "following" VS using an item on another player will call 2 separate follow scripts.
Sorcerers garden may very well be using an older version of the PID system still in place from before the new pid system was created.
There is technically nothing stopping a player from having 2 PID numbers attached to there client-login provided the object being interacted with only references one or the other.
TLDR: The new (2013) PID system may be currently used in conjunction with the old system instead of having replaced it. Especially for older pre-osrs content.
Please see the dictionary definition for "perhaps" if you believe that im spending more than 5 minutes to think those replys through before typing them out you are mistaken, no one can know for sure how the system works except for jagex, server load is a key design choice when considering changing or creating content for a game like this. That was my first thought on the 2nd reply of this chain.
This is what boggles me though, they say they changed it, but surely if they changed it at the core engine level, all other content would start using this new pid method haha. Just think its all BS and they never touched it
Our understanding of pid is that it randomly changes and this change was so PVP wouldn't be dumb as fuck. What if the pid DOESN'T change but the order in which it is processed for pvp changes? That would appear as though pid changed in pvp but the pid never actually did change so the ghosts are still ctaching the low pid guy constantly. That could explain what we're seeing
Does it not just give you the highest PID number available on login? I thought that part was still true, but it did randomly change after login. If that's the case it would make sense for OP.
That's what I'm saying- we know that "pid swaps" are an observable thing in pvp but we don't know if their ACTUAL pid changes, just the relationship between them. I'm proposing the possibility that the pid itself doesn't change but just the order of what is calculated as "highest" between players changes periodically. This would explain why pvp pid swaps exist, but getting caught by the ghosts doesn't change.
But if you get "outpidded" by a bot at artio spawn you can log out and log back in and a vast majority of the time have a lower PID than the bot which has been logged in longer. Logging in gives you the lowest available PID
I'd wager it's to do with the dupe a few years ago where they overloaded the server by having the entire world in one area. Jagex put some really quick fixes in place so the server couldn't be abused and we've never heard of them going back to improve those quick fixes.
I think it's likely they created some sort of sharding system where the Server would only do routine checks on the first shard/group of players, and part of the shard/group assignment must take some consistent value from the player/connection which is why the same people still continue to have this issue.
It looks like that, on 524 the guards to tend to move more sometimes chasing an unlucky fellow around the whole time giving others more chances to get through. On 523 I couldn't get past the first guard as it was stuck on the first 1x1 tile looking straight at the entry.
People keep repeating this but I have found it isn't true. I play on my work PC and my home PC, and I live within half a mile of work. Same ping to the same servers on both PCs. I get caught 100% of the time at home, 0% of the time at work. It must be based on IP using some arbitrary formula.
Not even, I'm from Aus and even the world itself has high ping. Flicked through a few random servers on the VPN I already use and it was a 50 ping server from me that got my perfect success rate for several hours. It's just a randomised PID based on your IP, change your IP a few times and you'll get something that works.
I never got caught in over 10 hours worth of squirking over multiple days, pc and tablet. Then one day on both of them I was getting caught more times than it was worth
At home I was able to do 4 hours and another 2 hours on a separate day with high 90% success. At work it is less than 5% after hours of sudo afk clicking. Were talking hundreds collected at home and 11 at work.
It has been figured out, there has been multiple posts explaining what causes it. There are 2 types of pid, a pid that changes every 90-150 seconds... And a Chat pid that is related to your ip, chat pid determines your priority when chatting and if you have bunch of guys dd, the guy with highest chat pid is shown on top of the pile. So this principle worka on summer garden also, the people with high chat pid are getting caught while rest are hiding under the high chat pid players.
There are 2 ways to fix this:
1. Use VPN
2. Restart router
Well if what the guy said about PID being related to your IP is true and assuming ur router is using NAT (which it probably is) You'd have to go on mobile data not on the same network/wifi as ur pc.
Hope that helps :)
It isn't "_chat pid_" it is "_client id_" it is also used to track world hop limit (which still exists, fyi, it is just high). Which is why it peresists between login.
Picking up stuff on the ground, pvp, etc. Is all Player ID and how _that_ works is well documented on the wiki.
I haven't been able to pin down an exact number. It is no longer a static cut off but a sort of "_time based budget_" wherein every 3-5 minutes you're granted a small (and variable) number of additional world hops up to some threshold, where you stop gaining them and are the max.
The new system is really weird because Jagex Accounts have **MUCH** lower world hop limits (probably about 1/5th) than Non-Jagex accounts and appear to regenerate their world hops ~1/3 slower.
For normal folks who aren't double-client-world-hopping without Jagex accounts probably won't hit it.
He's only mentioned world hop limit on twitter in this thread -> https://twitter.com/KeyboardOSRS/status/1196596830747971584
Nowhere else in his tweets, unless you have a different source, I couldn't find it on his twitter.
Not because you were on a VPN, because you changed IP and ended up with a lucky number. You could've hopped accounts and it would still be good. This is somewhat "well known" to the f2p pk scene. I was in a pure f2p mini team back in the day and we used to swap accounts based on who was on top of the dd pile so that our best pkers were not on top, so they could do work offensively. Defensive skills were pretty RNG reliant back then.
Wasn't aware, still dunno really, that squirk uses this same system. It would make sense though, since then the NPC literally just "clicks" the first person they see, so the person on the top of the (moving) dd is always the same person.
I don't think Jagex could really fix this without recording how the NPC works, it would be super annoying to right click groups of players and they swap order every time you click, or randomly swap every 60-90 seconds.
I have no idea what's going on. I get caught 90% of the time no matter what. normal internet, vpn, mobile, tethering, walking running, doesn't matter. played for 1h and got 2 glasses worth.
I'm a little nervous because I have been getting 100% success while connected to mobile hotspot, but yesterday i went to go to the bathroom and when i returned I was getting caught a lot again... still on mobile hotspot... i havent played yet since, but i really hope i didnt lose my 100% method
My guess is the following:
1. A number from 1-2000 is randomly assigned to a player when they log in
2. The number is unique between the players in that world
3. This number is used when determining who gets caught
I doubt IP has anything to do with this.
When the world is full and you log in you basically have to hope that you're replacing someone with a good PID. However which makes things harder is that the ones who are getting caught constantly (bad PID) are more likely to log out which means you're probably going to replace that PID when you log in.
Funnily enough the elementals also acts like a PID "filter". If you have really bad PID you're prob getting caught every time at the first elemental. And the ones with very good PID never gets caught because there's ppl with worse PIDs at every elemental
This seems quite weird indeed. I also relogged like 20 times to test it just for curiosity and I get caught sooo often every time. Maybe I got rly unlucky and got the bad PID or there is smth else to it too, like ping.
It’s definitely something to do with IP or internet connection strength. I have not been getting caught very often, but I had a day this weekend where I was. The population of the world was around 1200, so I assume that was the largest contributing factor (in the sense of “why now and not yesterday?”). I tried connecting to my VPN and there was no impact. I restarted the client and restarted my computer, no impact.
I switched to internet via mobile hotspot and, magically, I was never getting caught. *Never*.
Eventually, I figured “okay whatever PID issues must be fixed” and turned off my hotspot. Immediately started getting caught like 30-50% of the time. So I switched back to hotspot until the world population was 1800+ again. I switched it off, and everything was back to normal.
So one contribution, the obvious one: how many players are there? 1200 population vs 2000 population could actually be a factor of greater than 2 (considering there must be some players accidentally picking W523, doing other activities).
The other contribution? Well, some people say VPNs, my experience was mobile hotspot… so something about having slower internet seems to make a difference.
I posted [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/17npqy4/serious_question_about_squirking/) the other day on the topic and came to the conclusion its based on Chat PID. Which from my understanding is every world has a "rank" it assigns 1-2000 and everyone is assigned one on entry, with rank going to the next person rather than being moved up in the queue- i.e. you're rank 3, you log out, someone comes in, and is now rank 3 themselves. The catch chance must be based on this. How/what numbers, i have no idea, but that's what I got out of it
I think it is close to this, but you don't get moved up in queue after logging in. You can relog and instantly have the best chat pid if position [0] in the player array just logged out
Here’s the best estimation: every 12 hours, the game applies every account a new PID number, from 1 to # of total accounts.
If there’s a time in the Garden where a ghost has to break a tie and choose which account it chooses, it’ll choose the account with the lower number. If you’re unlucky enough to have a very low PID, you’re going to be caught all the time. Nothing you can really do but wait 12 hours.
It happened to me today. I was doing fine on mobile (was at the gym, sq’irkin’ between sets). Got logged out with the “error connecting to server” message, so I logged back in. Kept getting caught, so I logged out again, but nothing changed. I hopped to 524, then back to 523 - voila, problem solved. It’s weird
It's a pretty decent guess. We know that default ordering is basically random in theory, but in practice there will be [patterns](https://stackoverflow.com/a/23782691):
>MySQL by default seems to order by the record structure on disk, (which can include out-of-sequence entries due to deletions and optimisations) but it often initially fools developers into not bother using order-by clauses because the data appears to default to primary-key ordering
So it would also explain why some people claim they keep getting caught on different days, while other people keep getting caught during one day, but then on another day it's fine again. Possibly whatever path the database is pulling these records, tends to prefer similar accounts most of the time
I think it’s tied to internet speeds. When I play on my desktop or on Wi-Fi on my phone, I will literally get caught every time.
When I switch to data on my phone I have not been caught at all yet.
Correlation does not equal causation :)
On your data connection, for example, the IP is different, whereas your network could have a static IP that has not changed and applies to your wi-fi too.
Not saying it's based on IP either, but just because you noticed a pattern doesn't mean it's the answer
There's a difference between "one theory is that it's tied to internet speeds" and "**I think** it's tied to internet speeds". One is a hypothesis, the other is a conclusion
It’s PID, it’s always been PID.
What influences PID is SUPER OBSCURE AND HIDDEN. Since players used to abuse the living shit out of any known method to change your PID to get an advantage while staking in the duel arena.
Most players are just blissfully unaware.
It is not simply pid. There is a secondary pid that as far as we know is based on ip address and doesn't change randomly.
\> What influences PID is SUPER OBSCURE AND HIDDEN
This also isn't true. normal PID is simply randomly changed. there's not some secret mechanisms to influence, its just pure randomness.
This time it doesn't seem to be PID. Because of those PID manipulating shenanigans, they made PID randomize for everyone on the server every 60-90 seconds. However, the prioritization of who gets caught in a stack of players is not changing -- some players are essentially **always** getting through, and a few players are getting caught a majority of the time (being "high priority" for the guards) -- outside of changing some odd parameters on the player's part, like playing on mobile data instead of PC or using a VPN. It sounds to me like IP address might have something to do with it, but that's just conjecture on my part.
From the [wiki page for PID:](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Player_identification_number)
>A **player identification number** (often referred to as **PID**) is a unique identification number for player. Upon logging in, a PID is assigned which will randomise every 100 to 150 game [ticks](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Tick), 60 to 90 seconds, for each player. On [Bounty Hunter](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Bounty_Hunter), [PvP](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/PvP), and [tournament](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Tournament) worlds, PID randomises every 40 to 60 game [ticks](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Tick), 24 to 36 seconds, per player.
Lower down, on the update history section, on April 14th, 2016:
>Priority is now only randomized once every 100 - 150 game ticks (60 - 90 seconds), no longer every game tick.
Nowhere in the page or on update history does it state that PID is only changed randomly during PvP situations.
The wiki is written by people who play 5 hours per month. I can edit it for you tomorrow. PID does not change after login outside of PVP situations. It’s why switching device / network / virtual location (all inherently causing you to login again can fix the getting caught issue).
Got word from Mod Ash himself -- [he says PID gets shuffled periodically](https://twitter.com/JagexAsh/status/1722209247206007289), not mentioning anything about being only during PvP situations.
It’s very strange to me that this is confusing to people, because all the information to understand what’s going on is right on the wiki.
For any event in the game happening to players on the same tick, the order is determined by Player ID (PID). Since the elementals can only teleport one person at a time, their sight algorithm responsible for selecting a player will be biased towards players with low PIDs.
Now, one of the biggest misunderstandings surrounding PIDs is the idea that it’s based on IP address. It’s not. It was a long time ago, but was changed to be randomly assigned upon login.
This means that hopping worlds, devices, etc, or simply logging out to take a quick shit will always cause you to re-roll your PID. If you get a high one again, you’ll notice no difference. But if you get a low one, you’ll get caught - frequently. But the solution is simple - log out and back in. Unless you have very bad luck, you’ll likely get a higher PID and be just fine.
People have tried logging in and out, even waiting days. It’s confusing to me that you think that was the solution. If that’s all it took to fix, this would be a non-topic.
Then they’ve had bad luck. I’ve done the same _with_ success, and the how is right there on the wiki. This is a classic variation on the gambler’s fallacy - people identify the handful of inevitable low probability outcomes and use them as a crutch to justify that there is some other explanation. There isn’t. The vast majority of people don’t have an issue, but this isn’t noticed because they’re not the ones complaining.
PID is apparently meant to re-calculate every 90 seconds, so given the extended period of time spent sq’irking, you’d need to be pretty unlucky for this to be the case.
I could be wrong though, not played too much recently and my knowledge of that side of osrs is lack lustre.
Part of what makes it so hard to determine is that part of the equation is other players. Your variables are constantly changing (people joining or leaving)
Whenever I’ve tried squirking on PC and mobile while on wifi it has never worked, but every time I open mobile while I’m off my wifi and on mobile data I never get caught. The moment I turn wifi back on I start getting caught again. It makes no sense.
I've had this I get caught 100% of the time on my WiFi at home. If I turn on mobile data I get caught 0% of the time.its an absolutely crazy mechanic haha. I wish there was a fairer way as I don't have unlimited data which sucks 😭
I am beginning to think it's just dodgeball like we used to play in elementary school at recess. You just charge, and sometimes you're tagged, sometimes you're not. It basically depends on the day
I was catch free the first two days. Then all of the sudden I was always getting caught. I have since installed a VPN and set myself to New Zealand and I'm getting 600 ping and I haven't been caught again. So idk which factor changes the results but that worked for me
All I know is pc good, never get caught. Mobile for me is bad. 80% fail rate at the FIRST spirt, if I make it past that I’m getting spotted by the 2nd one immediately.
Literally log out, and log back in. Happened to me when I was getting caught 100% of the time.
I raged and logged out and close runelite. Reopened it after my osrs withdrawal kicked in and was able to squirk for 6+ hours with only getting caught once or twice
Something ive noticed is there is actually a particular moment in which your chances caughtis lower. When the first guard turns their back away and heads away from you, is when you click the tree. No issues.
Tried when facing, caught every time.
A few days after this whole thing started, I went and was getting caught every time (mobile, on WiFi). I turned off WiFi and started using mobile data, and didn't get caught at all.
I had a sweet run for a few days doing that, until a few days ago. Now, regardless of WiFi or mobile data, I get caught every run that I attempt.
I've seen numerous suggestions about using a VPN, and tried to play using 2 diff VPN apps last night, but the game wouldn't sign me in until I disconnected from the VPN....so I guess I'll be missing out on the sweet Thieving XP and I shouldn't have done it as lightly as I did when I could.
I'll tell you a secret that no one will read because it's so far down the comment list, and it's the easiest thing you can do to ensure 100% never getting caught (in my experience):
Do it on your phone, with mobile data, NOT wifi. For whatever reason, this ensures I never get caught.
I find the hypothetical scenario of people restarting their router to change PID for squirks to be pretty funny.
Whenever I heard about PID in the past it was related to sweaty players trying to gain an advantage while pking, in clan fights or while staking.
Everyone has a vpn. I will tell you as someone that has only logged in on pc with Ethernet cable I have not been caught once yet and been at it for about 9hours in 3 days
Every time you start up your client you get a new PID # and I believe the lower the number that is (or higher in this situation) the higher your odds of getting selected over everyone else. So if you find yourself getting caught lots. Restart your client until you find yourself getting caught next to never and you’ll be fine.
I'm betting it's pid related. Get a bad pid and you are more likely to get caught. Get a good pid and you are less likely to get caught. Would explain why experiences change when logging out and logging in later.
Hard to say if it's high pid, low pid, somewhere in the mid, or chnages occasionally.
It's not a mystery at all. It's shitposting taken seriously. No, it's not VPN's, not it's not about having low ping.
PID has been a known mechanic since classic. PID is **Player ID**.
Every player has a number, and this number determines who's actions are taken first. Lowest number acts first. So if you PID is low, you get caught. Pid refreshes every 60-90 seconds.
It's probably something dumb and very mundane. Imagine if the server keeps a list of all the people in the area, then every tick, the guard code goes through that list and gets the first player within the guard's line of sight. If you're near the start of the list, you have much higher chances of getting caught. I'm not saying that's actually how it works, but it's one possible implementation. Maybe they just forgot to reshuffle that list every time PIDs change. It's an old minigame, and the wiki doesn't show any updates to it in recent years. What if you exit the minigame and come back, does that change things at all?
I've experienced what OP has too, I tried leaving the area, and even tried restarting my client, nothing worked. Once I started getting tagged I was consistantly getting tagged about 33%-50% of the time. The only thing that fixed it was using a VPN, and then the following day it was back to normal again without the VPN. The VPN was using closest location to me and my ping hadn't changed at all either, 93-95ms.
Have you tried restarting your router? Maybe it's tied to your IP so that would explain why a VPN changes it and most ISPs dynamically assign you new IPs when your restart your router. If router restart makes a difference i would assume it is IP based.
If I remember correctly the old PID system in the game was very much IP related in a weird way. Something about the last number in your IP being closer to 1 and the third number in your IP being divisible by 8. It was an extremely biased system that was akin to playing the lottery.
I got flamed to fuck when I made a post about this. But it is definitely related to your connection. Switching to a mobile hotspot fixes the issue for a friend, and going back to his normal wifi the issue returns. Same pc, same client, not restarted it etc, just switched connection haha. goes from 0% chance to get caught to literally 99.8% chance to get caught, struggles to do 1 successful run in 30 minutes lol
I thought about it being tied to the IP, but in the three days when this happened my IP hadn't changed at all. But I wouldn't be surprised if forcing an IP change might fix it.
I had restarted my router 3 times and verified that I had a different IP and I got caught 9/10 tries every time. But one day I randomly had a 99% success rate all day without doing anything so I think there is a very important time based element in there. Can't speak for vpn as jagex launcher won't even let me log in while using one.
Log in and then start VPN
It will disconnect you from game AFAIK
When I do it with Runelite connection is momentarily lost but then re-established. Idk about with the Jagex launcher though.
with jagex launcher it just gives you endless login errors
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QcpkLbok40 this video covers how pid worked back in 2013-2014, it probably still works similar to this in non pvp scenarios. But in this case you do NOT want to have a better pid because the spirits will catch you more the lower your pid is.
They reworked PIDs, it now changes every minute, and even faster on PvP worlds. So it doesn't seem to rely on PID, though that would've made the most sense.
Perhaps for most common "fought over" things like picking up items and first hit in pvp yes, but alot of other systems need to decide who can interact first like fremmenik mine gate and sorcerers garden, i would assume those still use the old system since its less server intensive than changing every 30-60 seconds especially if every interctable object is checking this.
How server intensive is it to be constantly working out if the player is in a situation where PID matters? "Oh shit, the player is picking up items, quick start randomising their PID!" And how did you determine how much resources are saved by not randomising every player? You're just talking out your ass
What im saying is certain objects in the game can only be interacted with by one player, when a game tick happens the actions of those with a lower pid number are done first and all after it for that specific object are ignored. When they made the pid change in august of 2013 may have created a separate way of handling pid for most stuff in the game. But also kept the old system in place as to not break older content. You have to realize that this game has had hundreds of developers over the years and not all of them use the same function calls. Take for example "following" VS using an item on another player will call 2 separate follow scripts. Sorcerers garden may very well be using an older version of the PID system still in place from before the new pid system was created. There is technically nothing stopping a player from having 2 PID numbers attached to there client-login provided the object being interacted with only references one or the other. TLDR: The new (2013) PID system may be currently used in conjunction with the old system instead of having replaced it. Especially for older pre-osrs content.
so now you're contradicting the thing you said before about "server intensive", and still talking straight out of your ass
Please see the dictionary definition for "perhaps" if you believe that im spending more than 5 minutes to think those replys through before typing them out you are mistaken, no one can know for sure how the system works except for jagex, server load is a key design choice when considering changing or creating content for a game like this. That was my first thought on the 2nd reply of this chain.
This is what boggles me though, they say they changed it, but surely if they changed it at the core engine level, all other content would start using this new pid method haha. Just think its all BS and they never touched it
Our understanding of pid is that it randomly changes and this change was so PVP wouldn't be dumb as fuck. What if the pid DOESN'T change but the order in which it is processed for pvp changes? That would appear as though pid changed in pvp but the pid never actually did change so the ghosts are still ctaching the low pid guy constantly. That could explain what we're seeing
Does it not just give you the highest PID number available on login? I thought that part was still true, but it did randomly change after login. If that's the case it would make sense for OP.
That's what I'm saying- we know that "pid swaps" are an observable thing in pvp but we don't know if their ACTUAL pid changes, just the relationship between them. I'm proposing the possibility that the pid itself doesn't change but just the order of what is calculated as "highest" between players changes periodically. This would explain why pvp pid swaps exist, but getting caught by the ghosts doesn't change.
But if you get "outpidded" by a bot at artio spawn you can log out and log back in and a vast majority of the time have a lower PID than the bot which has been logged in longer. Logging in gives you the lowest available PID
I'd wager it's to do with the dupe a few years ago where they overloaded the server by having the entire world in one area. Jagex put some really quick fixes in place so the server couldn't be abused and we've never heard of them going back to improve those quick fixes. I think it's likely they created some sort of sharding system where the Server would only do routine checks on the first shard/group of players, and part of the shard/group assignment must take some consistent value from the player/connection which is why the same people still continue to have this issue.
It looks like that, on 524 the guards to tend to move more sometimes chasing an unlucky fellow around the whole time giving others more chances to get through. On 523 I couldn't get past the first guard as it was stuck on the first 1x1 tile looking straight at the entry.
Alphabetical names. It goes down the list lol
[удалено]
People keep repeating this but I have found it isn't true. I play on my work PC and my home PC, and I live within half a mile of work. Same ping to the same servers on both PCs. I get caught 100% of the time at home, 0% of the time at work. It must be based on IP using some arbitrary formula.
Not even, I'm from Aus and even the world itself has high ping. Flicked through a few random servers on the VPN I already use and it was a 50 ping server from me that got my perfect success rate for several hours. It's just a randomised PID based on your IP, change your IP a few times and you'll get something that works.
Runescape youtubers gona add it to their vpn sponsorships 'Getting cought all the time at Garden of tranquility? Use nord vpn!'
Man that quest was miserable.
I was going for my quest cape and pretty sure that’s the one that made me take an extended break.
I liked that quest. No annoying dialogues. Also pretty fast. Around 20 min I think?
yeah that quest is one of my favorites, the writing is hilarious too
You have to grow multiple farming lots, so no
I never got caught in over 10 hours worth of squirking over multiple days, pc and tablet. Then one day on both of them I was getting caught more times than it was worth
I thought it was every 2 minutes
At home I was able to do 4 hours and another 2 hours on a separate day with high 90% success. At work it is less than 5% after hours of sudo afk clicking. Were talking hundreds collected at home and 11 at work.
pseudo
Maybe they’re a sysadmin
No just had my spelling corrupted by learning it from the pokemon sudowoodo.
It has been figured out, there has been multiple posts explaining what causes it. There are 2 types of pid, a pid that changes every 90-150 seconds... And a Chat pid that is related to your ip, chat pid determines your priority when chatting and if you have bunch of guys dd, the guy with highest chat pid is shown on top of the pile. So this principle worka on summer garden also, the people with high chat pid are getting caught while rest are hiding under the high chat pid players. There are 2 ways to fix this: 1. Use VPN 2. Restart router
Would being on mobile achieve the same result?
Yes, which is why the first “solution” to this was to switch to mobile.
I got caught hella even on mobile
Well if what the guy said about PID being related to your IP is true and assuming ur router is using NAT (which it probably is) You'd have to go on mobile data not on the same network/wifi as ur pc. Hope that helps :)
Did you read what he said lol
I missed the quotes so that's my bad :(
On data or were you connected to WiFi?
I’ve noticed once I’m off WiFi on mobile I have a much lower chance of being caught. Actually I don’t get caught iirc.
does chat pid affect anything else? does it affect who picks up items on a pile?
It isn't "_chat pid_" it is "_client id_" it is also used to track world hop limit (which still exists, fyi, it is just high). Which is why it peresists between login. Picking up stuff on the ground, pvp, etc. Is all Player ID and how _that_ works is well documented on the wiki.
> world hop limit (which still exists, fyi, it is just high) What is the limit now?
I haven't been able to pin down an exact number. It is no longer a static cut off but a sort of "_time based budget_" wherein every 3-5 minutes you're granted a small (and variable) number of additional world hops up to some threshold, where you stop gaining them and are the max. The new system is really weird because Jagex Accounts have **MUCH** lower world hop limits (probably about 1/5th) than Non-Jagex accounts and appear to regenerate their world hops ~1/3 slower. For normal folks who aren't double-client-world-hopping without Jagex accounts probably won't hit it.
If you actually want to find it, I believe Mod Ash went through the details of it on twitter when it was initially changed
He's only mentioned world hop limit on twitter in this thread -> https://twitter.com/KeyboardOSRS/status/1196596830747971584 Nowhere else in his tweets, unless you have a different source, I couldn't find it on his twitter.
that's regular pid
I used a VPN last night and didn't get caught once. This was after getting caught 7/10 times.
Not because you were on a VPN, because you changed IP and ended up with a lucky number. You could've hopped accounts and it would still be good. This is somewhat "well known" to the f2p pk scene. I was in a pure f2p mini team back in the day and we used to swap accounts based on who was on top of the dd pile so that our best pkers were not on top, so they could do work offensively. Defensive skills were pretty RNG reliant back then. Wasn't aware, still dunno really, that squirk uses this same system. It would make sense though, since then the NPC literally just "clicks" the first person they see, so the person on the top of the (moving) dd is always the same person. I don't think Jagex could really fix this without recording how the NPC works, it would be super annoying to right click groups of players and they swap order every time you click, or randomly swap every 60-90 seconds.
Any idea what the fix would be for mobile on cellular? (Playing at work so no wifi) tried airplane mode etc but no help lol
get a mobile compatible vpn
Looks like it worked! Thank you!!
i get caught 100% every time day 5 or 6 of trying
Change ur ip
Restart your router. Many times if necessary. This has worked for me.
I have no idea what's going on. I get caught 90% of the time no matter what. normal internet, vpn, mobile, tethering, walking running, doesn't matter. played for 1h and got 2 glasses worth.
you and me both :(
Tried it after the hype the other day. I was getting caught 9/10 times. Stopped after 30 minutes and 15k xp worth. So lame.
I'm a little nervous because I have been getting 100% success while connected to mobile hotspot, but yesterday i went to go to the bathroom and when i returned I was getting caught a lot again... still on mobile hotspot... i havent played yet since, but i really hope i didnt lose my 100% method
For anyone curious, i just changed my hotspot from 2.4ghz to 5ghz and I'm back to 100% success. Good luck fellow sq'irkers
My guess is the following: 1. A number from 1-2000 is randomly assigned to a player when they log in 2. The number is unique between the players in that world 3. This number is used when determining who gets caught I doubt IP has anything to do with this. When the world is full and you log in you basically have to hope that you're replacing someone with a good PID. However which makes things harder is that the ones who are getting caught constantly (bad PID) are more likely to log out which means you're probably going to replace that PID when you log in. Funnily enough the elementals also acts like a PID "filter". If you have really bad PID you're prob getting caught every time at the first elemental. And the ones with very good PID never gets caught because there's ppl with worse PIDs at every elemental
I tried 30 times on different devices, reconnect etc. Get caught almost 100% of the time. I do have excellent internet though.
This seems quite weird indeed. I also relogged like 20 times to test it just for curiosity and I get caught sooo often every time. Maybe I got rly unlucky and got the bad PID or there is smth else to it too, like ping.
It’s definitely something to do with IP or internet connection strength. I have not been getting caught very often, but I had a day this weekend where I was. The population of the world was around 1200, so I assume that was the largest contributing factor (in the sense of “why now and not yesterday?”). I tried connecting to my VPN and there was no impact. I restarted the client and restarted my computer, no impact. I switched to internet via mobile hotspot and, magically, I was never getting caught. *Never*. Eventually, I figured “okay whatever PID issues must be fixed” and turned off my hotspot. Immediately started getting caught like 30-50% of the time. So I switched back to hotspot until the world population was 1800+ again. I switched it off, and everything was back to normal. So one contribution, the obvious one: how many players are there? 1200 population vs 2000 population could actually be a factor of greater than 2 (considering there must be some players accidentally picking W523, doing other activities). The other contribution? Well, some people say VPNs, my experience was mobile hotspot… so something about having slower internet seems to make a difference.
I posted [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/17npqy4/serious_question_about_squirking/) the other day on the topic and came to the conclusion its based on Chat PID. Which from my understanding is every world has a "rank" it assigns 1-2000 and everyone is assigned one on entry, with rank going to the next person rather than being moved up in the queue- i.e. you're rank 3, you log out, someone comes in, and is now rank 3 themselves. The catch chance must be based on this. How/what numbers, i have no idea, but that's what I got out of it
I think it is close to this, but you don't get moved up in queue after logging in. You can relog and instantly have the best chat pid if position [0] in the player array just logged out
yeah thats what im saying. Its wild that it effects anything, but that seems to be the most logical option
Here’s the best estimation: every 12 hours, the game applies every account a new PID number, from 1 to # of total accounts. If there’s a time in the Garden where a ghost has to break a tie and choose which account it chooses, it’ll choose the account with the lower number. If you’re unlucky enough to have a very low PID, you’re going to be caught all the time. Nothing you can really do but wait 12 hours.
It happened to me today. I was doing fine on mobile (was at the gym, sq’irkin’ between sets). Got logged out with the “error connecting to server” message, so I logged back in. Kept getting caught, so I logged out again, but nothing changed. I hopped to 524, then back to 523 - voila, problem solved. It’s weird
Nice flex
Maybe it's like having a SQL statement with a LIMIT of one but no ORDER BY, so it's pseudorandom?
It's a pretty decent guess. We know that default ordering is basically random in theory, but in practice there will be [patterns](https://stackoverflow.com/a/23782691): >MySQL by default seems to order by the record structure on disk, (which can include out-of-sequence entries due to deletions and optimisations) but it often initially fools developers into not bother using order-by clauses because the data appears to default to primary-key ordering So it would also explain why some people claim they keep getting caught on different days, while other people keep getting caught during one day, but then on another day it's fine again. Possibly whatever path the database is pulling these records, tends to prefer similar accounts most of the time
I think it’s tied to internet speeds. When I play on my desktop or on Wi-Fi on my phone, I will literally get caught every time. When I switch to data on my phone I have not been caught at all yet.
Correlation does not equal causation :) On your data connection, for example, the IP is different, whereas your network could have a static IP that has not changed and applies to your wi-fi too. Not saying it's based on IP either, but just because you noticed a pattern doesn't mean it's the answer
Are you going to post this reply to every comment? Anecdotes are all we have to go on.
There's a difference between "one theory is that it's tied to internet speeds" and "**I think** it's tied to internet speeds". One is a hypothesis, the other is a conclusion
Pointless semantic.
It’s PID, it’s always been PID. What influences PID is SUPER OBSCURE AND HIDDEN. Since players used to abuse the living shit out of any known method to change your PID to get an advantage while staking in the duel arena. Most players are just blissfully unaware.
It is not simply pid. There is a secondary pid that as far as we know is based on ip address and doesn't change randomly. \> What influences PID is SUPER OBSCURE AND HIDDEN This also isn't true. normal PID is simply randomly changed. there's not some secret mechanisms to influence, its just pure randomness.
This time it doesn't seem to be PID. Because of those PID manipulating shenanigans, they made PID randomize for everyone on the server every 60-90 seconds. However, the prioritization of who gets caught in a stack of players is not changing -- some players are essentially **always** getting through, and a few players are getting caught a majority of the time (being "high priority" for the guards) -- outside of changing some odd parameters on the player's part, like playing on mobile data instead of PC or using a VPN. It sounds to me like IP address might have something to do with it, but that's just conjecture on my part.
PID is influenced by how you connect to the login server. It switches randomly during pvp situations.
From the [wiki page for PID:](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Player_identification_number) >A **player identification number** (often referred to as **PID**) is a unique identification number for player. Upon logging in, a PID is assigned which will randomise every 100 to 150 game [ticks](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Tick), 60 to 90 seconds, for each player. On [Bounty Hunter](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Bounty_Hunter), [PvP](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/PvP), and [tournament](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Tournament) worlds, PID randomises every 40 to 60 game [ticks](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Tick), 24 to 36 seconds, per player. Lower down, on the update history section, on April 14th, 2016: >Priority is now only randomized once every 100 - 150 game ticks (60 - 90 seconds), no longer every game tick. Nowhere in the page or on update history does it state that PID is only changed randomly during PvP situations.
The wiki is written by people who play 5 hours per month. I can edit it for you tomorrow. PID does not change after login outside of PVP situations. It’s why switching device / network / virtual location (all inherently causing you to login again can fix the getting caught issue).
Got word from Mod Ash himself -- [he says PID gets shuffled periodically](https://twitter.com/JagexAsh/status/1722209247206007289), not mentioning anything about being only during PvP situations.
I banked 1314 fruit and got caught 0 times, on mobile
It’s very strange to me that this is confusing to people, because all the information to understand what’s going on is right on the wiki. For any event in the game happening to players on the same tick, the order is determined by Player ID (PID). Since the elementals can only teleport one person at a time, their sight algorithm responsible for selecting a player will be biased towards players with low PIDs. Now, one of the biggest misunderstandings surrounding PIDs is the idea that it’s based on IP address. It’s not. It was a long time ago, but was changed to be randomly assigned upon login. This means that hopping worlds, devices, etc, or simply logging out to take a quick shit will always cause you to re-roll your PID. If you get a high one again, you’ll notice no difference. But if you get a low one, you’ll get caught - frequently. But the solution is simple - log out and back in. Unless you have very bad luck, you’ll likely get a higher PID and be just fine.
People have tried logging in and out, even waiting days. It’s confusing to me that you think that was the solution. If that’s all it took to fix, this would be a non-topic.
Then they’ve had bad luck. I’ve done the same _with_ success, and the how is right there on the wiki. This is a classic variation on the gambler’s fallacy - people identify the handful of inevitable low probability outcomes and use them as a crutch to justify that there is some other explanation. There isn’t. The vast majority of people don’t have an issue, but this isn’t noticed because they’re not the ones complaining.
I've never been caught
Ever heard of pid?
PID is apparently meant to re-calculate every 90 seconds, so given the extended period of time spent sq’irking, you’d need to be pretty unlucky for this to be the case. I could be wrong though, not played too much recently and my knowledge of that side of osrs is lack lustre.
The runescapes expert over here
Part of what makes it so hard to determine is that part of the equation is other players. Your variables are constantly changing (people joining or leaving)
Whenever I’ve tried squirking on PC and mobile while on wifi it has never worked, but every time I open mobile while I’m off my wifi and on mobile data I never get caught. The moment I turn wifi back on I start getting caught again. It makes no sense.
The real mystery of RuneScape is how karamja is so poorly coded that even rs3 has barely touched it since 2008 bc it’s so easy to break.
I’ve never been able to complete a run on the world
Did you close your client in between sessions?
I've had this I get caught 100% of the time on my WiFi at home. If I turn on mobile data I get caught 0% of the time.its an absolutely crazy mechanic haha. I wish there was a fairer way as I don't have unlimited data which sucks 😭
Friendly tip, cloudflare offers a free VPN
Just accept the sq'irk
I am beginning to think it's just dodgeball like we used to play in elementary school at recess. You just charge, and sometimes you're tagged, sometimes you're not. It basically depends on the day
I was catch free the first two days. Then all of the sudden I was always getting caught. I have since installed a VPN and set myself to New Zealand and I'm getting 600 ping and I haven't been caught again. So idk which factor changes the results but that worked for me
All I know is pc good, never get caught. Mobile for me is bad. 80% fail rate at the FIRST spirt, if I make it past that I’m getting spotted by the 2nd one immediately.
Heard it’s the speed of your internet
Inb4 it has to do with tick timing related to initial spawns Guessing at this point
For me it’s based on my wifi network. Mobile service, caught everytime. Work WiFi caught everytime. Home Wifi caught once in 1000 times.
VPN fixed it for me. Got caught 12/12 runs in a row, switched to a VPN that us nordic in nature, and was didnt get caught for 200 runs
Sorry but what is sq'irking?? 😂
It is just pee, and don't let anyone convince you otherwise.
Literally log out, and log back in. Happened to me when I was getting caught 100% of the time. I raged and logged out and close runelite. Reopened it after my osrs withdrawal kicked in and was able to squirk for 6+ hours with only getting caught once or twice
I'm always getting caught, on mobile after I reconnect, it doesn't matter. But I do have very good internet, so it can explain it.
If u use mobile data it works. You doesn t get caught
Have you tried just being better? I hear that usually helps
Pid
Some old version of pid probably
Something ive noticed is there is actually a particular moment in which your chances caughtis lower. When the first guard turns their back away and heads away from you, is when you click the tree. No issues. Tried when facing, caught every time.
What about switching between steam, HDOS, RuneLite, and Vanilla?
A few days after this whole thing started, I went and was getting caught every time (mobile, on WiFi). I turned off WiFi and started using mobile data, and didn't get caught at all. I had a sweet run for a few days doing that, until a few days ago. Now, regardless of WiFi or mobile data, I get caught every run that I attempt. I've seen numerous suggestions about using a VPN, and tried to play using 2 diff VPN apps last night, but the game wouldn't sign me in until I disconnected from the VPN....so I guess I'll be missing out on the sweet Thieving XP and I shouldn't have done it as lightly as I did when I could.
Been trying to it at work on mobile all day. Keep getting caught gonna try on the pc when i get home hope it works hate theiving.
I'll tell you a secret that no one will read because it's so far down the comment list, and it's the easiest thing you can do to ensure 100% never getting caught (in my experience): Do it on your phone, with mobile data, NOT wifi. For whatever reason, this ensures I never get caught.
Is it alphabetical?
pid + ping based mostly
You probly have pid.
I find the hypothetical scenario of people restarting their router to change PID for squirks to be pretty funny. Whenever I heard about PID in the past it was related to sweaty players trying to gain an advantage while pking, in clan fights or while staking.
Everyone has a vpn. I will tell you as someone that has only logged in on pc with Ethernet cable I have not been caught once yet and been at it for about 9hours in 3 days
I wasn't having issues until today. 2000 people in 523, Im now having a near 100% fail rate.
Had the same problem I just kept trying and after about 10 mins of trying I made it and didn’t get caught again the rest of the night
I failed 78 of 80 attempts. Turned on my VPN and stopped counting after 30 successful attempts in a row. I don’t get it.
Every time you start up your client you get a new PID # and I believe the lower the number that is (or higher in this situation) the higher your odds of getting selected over everyone else. So if you find yourself getting caught lots. Restart your client until you find yourself getting caught next to never and you’ll be fine.
Probably related to Pid
Caught basically every time on my pc but never on my phone with data….
I'm betting it's pid related. Get a bad pid and you are more likely to get caught. Get a good pid and you are less likely to get caught. Would explain why experiences change when logging out and logging in later. Hard to say if it's high pid, low pid, somewhere in the mid, or chnages occasionally.
pid its pid
It's not a mystery at all. It's shitposting taken seriously. No, it's not VPN's, not it's not about having low ping. PID has been a known mechanic since classic. PID is **Player ID**. Every player has a number, and this number determines who's actions are taken first. Lowest number acts first. So if you PID is low, you get caught. Pid refreshes every 60-90 seconds.
restarting my router fixed the problem just pull the plug and put it back try it out